Religion, politics, sex .. and other taboo subjects

[Ravenscroft]

A few thoughts about The Wall.

• Wikipedia article, Mexico-United States barrier
• Forbes Magazine -- long a foe of Obama & anything even faintly Liberal -- thinks it's a stupid idea
• recent photos of what "the wall" actually looks like
• "In 2014 over 66% of all illegal immigrants had been in the USA for 10 years or more." (Forbes)
• most people stopped at the border are not Mexican
• many illegal immigrants won't be stopped by any wall, period

I'm not normally a "fan" of TV shows, but Adam Ruins Everythingis one of the funniest AND most informative shows I've ever seen. If you think you know anything about illegal immigration, you owe it to yourself to watch "Adam Ruins Immigration." The footnotes are posted online.

Therein, Adam points out that an estimated 27%-40% of illegal immigrants enter the United States not just legally, but by air -- meaning that it'd have to be a really TALL wall. They come in, then overstay their visa, often while awaiting a hearing to extend their residency or make it permanent, & are therefore at that point "illegal." As Forbes says,

They come from Mexico, India, Canada, Europe, Asia, South America, Africa - all over the world.

And there's many more overstayers who came in by car... but legally. The most massive wall imaginable wouldn't have stopped them at the border.

I don't need to point out that some came in by boat, right? In 2015, 43,00 Cubans entered illegally.

As cited by Adam, in 2014 a Pew Research Center report pointed out that almost 1/30 of people currently in the United States is in fact not here legally. Call it TEN MILLION.

There are only 58 immigration courts in the entire nation. Their combined backlog is about 489,000 cases. 250 judges each take on about 1,500 cases per year.

Illegals contribute almost $12 billion annually in state & local taxes. The New York Times (in 2013) estimated that illegals had put $300 billion into Social Security -- most of them won't ever be able to claim Social Security benefits, but are nevertheless propping it up, so they annually put in about $15 billion & take out maybe $1 billion.

Interestingly, the state with the longest Mexican border is Texas -- and of its 38 congressional members (36 in Congress, 2 in the Senate, and 25 Republican) not one -- NOT ONE -- supports building the wall. The district with the longest border (800 miles) is represented by Republican Will Hurd, who said "building a wall is the most expensive and least effective way to secure the border."

 

[Spork]

That's actually a new thing? Wow -- I was teasing people about this three or four months ago: "There's a big difference between 'I'll give you the money to buy this for me' & 'go buy this for me & I'll pay you back.'"

But I've got another prediction that popped into my head last week.

It helps to imagine Trump channelling Hank Kimball --

Then we go directly into Full Trump Mode --

A few months from now, the squawking-point Facebook feeds will tell the mindless Silver Shirts to start proclaiming that the virtual wall is complete, & to shout down anyone who so much as gets a WTF expression.

The ?? in my statement that you quoted, were mostly to indicate:

"Somebody said this, I didn't investigate it, because this whole fucking thing is bullshit and I am sick of thinking too hard about it, so no, I have NOT done my fact checking or my research. But hey here's a thought...a wall to keep others out, or a wall to keep us in? Huh? Huh? Thoughts?"

Thing is you have plenty of guys on trumpo's side of things who are all "MUH FREEDOM" and told me for the last 8, that evil antichrist Obama was gonna round us all up and put us in FEMA camps. Now I am hearing rumors of travel and border crossing impediments that have nothing to do with walls or Mexicans, but to do with border guards asking invasive questions and turning people in vehicles away.

Personally I fucking hate this, I want a GLOBAL community of humans, and reductions to the things that separate us. Does that mean that people with other cultures, some of which aren't really like ours, might come here and make trouble? Yeah, sometimes. But we'll deal with that shit when it happens. Ultimately I would like for humans to attain a more evolved state and be less like warring chimpanzee troupes. You don't get there building walls around your country and thinking constantly in terms of white hat, black hat, good and evil. There are people. And there are other people. And over there...more people. Most of us just want to live and love and have babies and eat and try to improve our lot if we can, in the short span we are here.

But I hear these guys, so many trained by our military to think this way, referring to ENTIRE NATIONS' POPULATIONS of people, as "the axis of evil" right now. And frankly, as much as we talk about honoring our soldiers and supporting our soldiers even if we don't support the wars they are fighting in, and all that shit...I see these guys getting brainwashed so that they are able to follow orders and kill, and I see that they go through the rest of their lives thinking in terms of "us versus them" and those who aren't like you are The Enemy, easily dehumanized, easily shot in the head. I see epidemics of fucked up mental health problems, I hear about soldiers (more than the news will EVER tell you) killing their families, killing themselves, or becoming so antisocial that they lose everyone around them after they're out, and wind up on the streets. Addiction, especially to opiates, is rampant among vets.

And now it's all "BIGGER STRONGER MILITARY!" and the Orange Arsehole and his Holy White Walker of Jeezus by his side, and who knows who we'll be at war with before the year is out.

So actually the reality of a single wall and the funding of it, is trivial to me. It's the bigger concepts behind ALL THIS SHIT that have me upset, worried, afraid.

 

[vinsanity0]

Next we are going to see Trump give federal powers to local law enforcement.

 

[Ravenscroft]

I've already BTDT, I guess.

Everyone familiar with the Posse Comitatus Act? In 1878 it specifically restricted the Feds' use of military in domestic situations "and was subsequently updated in 1956 and 1981."

Yet in 1993, when I dared drive up University Avenue in Minneapolis to pick up my ladyfriend for a night of wild Irish music, I was pulled over & quizzed (however briefly, probably because I can't pass for black) by two National Guard vehicles full of heavily armed soldiers, with a helicopter directly overhead. It was a "drug crackdown" initiative to control North Minneapolis, which merely happens to be largely African-American.

The Guard are painted as a well-trained force that responds to domestic natural emergencies... but then the Feds can step in at any vague whim &the poor goobers find themselves doing IED patrol in Afghanistan for a couple of years for "training purposes"... or carrying out military ops stateside in a neat end-around of Posse Comitatus because they're a state organization that only happens to be doing the bidding of the Feds. Our governor tried to fight this:

The Montgomery Amendment to the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 1987 provides that a governor cannot withhold consent with regard to active duty outside the United States because of any objection to the location, purpose, type, or schedule of such duty. This law was challenged and upheld by the Supreme Court of the United States in 1990 in Perpich v. Department of Defense.

In short, we already live in a police state, even if it's not actively in use at any given moment.

 

[Magdlyn]

Back to building the Wall. It's gonna be a really big great wall. Yuge.

Pointless. Information I have gathered shows there is a huge amount of tunnels between Mexico and the US. It's a whole industry apparently. They are dug by experts, and dug quickly, with power tools. They contain electricity and ventilation, even motorcycles, and supplies such as water are down there.

One interviewer on CNN said he became aware of over 50 tunnels in a 75 mile stretch south of San Diego CA to the Tijuana/Baja area alone.

El Chapo, the international drug overlord based in Mexico, escaped their highest security prison in 2015 through a series of tunnels and sewers, avoiding seismographic systems meant to detect the tunnels.

Of course Mexican law enforcement is very corrupt and bribe friendly. But I don't think the US is immune to bribes. Hell, maybe trump wants to get his finger in the Mexican drug trade now that El Chapo has finally been extradited to... NEW YORK. El Chapo is probably one of Bannon's heroes, since he has admitted to favoring "darkness," and taking as heroes Satan, Hitler and Vader.

He was extradited the day before trump's inauguration. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/19/world/el-chapo-extradited-mexico.html?_r=0

 

[Spork]

My 15 year old son posted this meme on Facebook...

 

[Magdlyn]

Haha

 

[Ravenscroft]

During Bush Junior, we were all taught that "changing your mind" means "flip-flopping," which indicates you're a moron, am I right?

(Ooh, sorry, I've got a serious sinus infection & I may have channeled Trumpism for a moment there. )

It finally dawned on NPR about 36 hours ago that the vaunted Trumpista "extreme vetting" is exactly what is ALREADY being done & has in fact been going on for YEARS.

It's nice to see ONE "so-called" judge put his job on the chopping block to simply stand up for the Constitution. Bush appointee (!!) James Robart makes me weepy, that moderate common sense could so readily be viewed as wild-eyed radicalism, & that so few with but a shred of power would have the gall to stand with him.

Can anyone seriously imagine The Donald EVER saying "I was wrong" without adding something smarmy like "...because I trusted THAT guy!!!"

 

[Spork]

Just saw that the alt-right is posting "Honeypot" petitions to get liberals and antifas to sign so that they can be doxxed for harassment.

Do NOT sign antifas petitions. Not on change.org, or anywhere. Don't give out your real info. Be careful. Other "antifascism" sites (including a .org, and a reddit) are also compromised.

 

[vinsanity0]

Just saw that the alt-right is posting "Honeypot" petitions to get liberals and antifas to sign so that they can be doxxed for harassment.

Do NOT sign antifas petitions. Not on change.org, or anywhere. Don't give out your real info. Be careful. Other "antifascism" sites (including a .org, and a reddit) are also compromised.

I've always assumed that's what online petitions were for since they have zero chance of actually accomplishing anything.

 

[Spork]

I've always assumed that's what online petitions were for since they have zero chance of actually accomplishing anything.

Well, I always thought maybe it was a good way to let the Congresscritters know that a large number of their constituents felt a certain way about something...at least in theory. But then I find that many things I once might have seen in a more benign light, I look at with more suspicion nowadays.

 

[Ravenscroft]

For two months, Trump has been looking into making changes to extant libel law, to make it easier to sue anyone who makes fun of him -- Alec Baldwin, say.

Pick one --
https://www.google.com/search?q=trump+libel+law&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
________________

I am very, VERY tired of the "Give him a chance!" meme. Every time I encounter it, I am reminded why I am so thankful that I am not being led around by a Facebook or Twitter feed like so many mindless sheep.

Give him a chance to set everyone’s rights back a few decades and make the destruction of the environment come decades faster.

Give him a chance to minimize, marginalize, criticize, and otherwise divide the masses, promoting hate in every direction with utterly no concern for factual honesty, fidelity, or anything approaching anyone’s actual values.

Give him a chance to kill untold masses of people by depriving them of health care.

Give him a chance to kill untold masses more people by ramping up and then launching nuclear weapons, as he and his staff repeatedly ask why we have them if we’re not going to use them.

Give him a chance to eliminate the Department of Education and the Environmental Protection Agency, allowing an unregulated tailspin into a literal wasteland of corporate plutocracy.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/reasonadvocates/2017/01/23/just-give-chance/
________________

There's a tactic favored by the GOP since the early 1980s. It's been used so much, & intentionally, that it is now in their very nature:

Before you take any action or make any statement that you know will meet with deserved criticism, first accuse your opponents of deserving that criticism.

All you need do is examine any Right Wingnut's use of accusations such as divisive, or partisan, or racist, or lying.
________________

I recogize play books from the past.

His primary rules were:

• never allow the public to cool off;
• never admit a fault or wrong;
• never concede that there may be some good in your enemy;
• never leave room for alternatives;
• never accept blame;
• concentrate on one enemy at a time and blame him for everything that goes wrong;
• people will believe a big lie sooner than a little one;
• and if you repeat it frequently enough people will sooner or later believe it.

 

[vinsanity0]

Here is an example of right wing propaganda that is being sent to the sheeple:

No president has EVER endured the level of disrespect shown to President Trump.
(It’s sickening)

Unprecedented obstruction from the left on his cabinet nominees.

Mockery and scorn from the liberal media.

And now the liberal elite are calling for his impeachment. . .*IN HIS FIRST MONTH.

It’s clear that the liberal elite will do anything to take down OUR president.

This is in an email from the NRCC.

Excuse me? Obama waited much longer for his cabinet. Incidentally, this email was set up with a Trump tweet falsely claiming an unprecedented wait. As for disrespect, the GOP publicly announced they would obstruct Obama at every turn.

Notice how this is becoming a game of comparisons? Us vs them. "OUR president". "Liberal elite". A classic tactic is to accuse one's opponent of doing what you are doing.

What can break this cycle?

 

[Ravenscroft]

"liberal elite" = Jew

Basically, everything from a Right Wingnut's mouth (or whaever) means "Jew."

Like "ivory tower".

"intellectual"

"Ivy League"

"mainstream media"

"West Coast"

"bankers"

"Hollywood"

"privileged"

 

[Ravenscroft]

Some light reading for the weekend. I haven't seen Mainstream News in the past few days, but the "retail debacle" is mentioned from time to time on NPR. Some fun facts to toss into your social media --

First, do you actually know who the heck Kellyann Conway is? She's a glorified pollster, with the apparently official title of counselor to the President. (Polling data is critical to effective mind control; this is Joseph Goebbels' #1 rule.) Yet she is also tasked with "responsibility for veterans’ issues as well as health-care matters such as opioid abuse."

Lately, she seems to have been demonstrating a bit too much familiarity with that latter. Last week, she defended Trump's anti-Muslim ban on the grounds that it would have prevented the Bowling Green (KY) massacre.

Problem is, no such incident EVER OCCURRED.

Here's how Totally Screwed we all are: half of Right Wingnuts polled believe it happened.

Why?

Because Kellyann SAID SO.

And they also believe that Mainstream Media buried the story so as not to make Obama (& by extension Clinton) look bad.

Again, because Kellyann SAID SO:

I bet, there was very little coverage — I bet it's brand new information to people that President Obama had a six-month ban on the Iraqi refugee program after two Iraqis came here to this country, were radicalized — and they were the masterminds behind the Bowling Green massacre. I mean, most people don't know that because it didn't get covered.

A brain fart? No effing way: she'd cited the exact same hallucination three days previously, in TWO separate interviews.

Only four more years, eh? "The voters aren't that stupid," right?


________________

Last week, The Donald decreed that any retailers who refuse to continue losing money in stocking his daughter's failing "fashion" line are intentionally attacking her, & thus attacking him. He singled out Nordstrom, but the list is a little longer than that:

The retailer follows Macy's, TJ Maxx, Neiman Marcus and other retailers who have backed away from Trump-branded fashion lines over the past year.

Neiman Marcus, Belk, Jet, ShopStyle, Home Shopping Network, T.J. Maxx and Marshall's have all reportedly dropped Ivanka's products.

(The squawkers who stop with Nordstrom thus reveal their actual stance -- "if it wasn't the literal & complete truth, Donald wouldn't say it!!Everything else is Mainstream Media lies!!" )

My daughter Ivanka has been treated so unfairly by @Nordstrom. She is a great person -- always pushing me to do the right thing! Terrible!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) February 8, 2017

This bit of lunacy was then retweeted on the official White House POTUS account -- Your Tax Dollars At Work.

Then the Ministry for Public Enlightenment stepped up, in the form of Sean Spicer. This took place not on Twitter or Facebook, but at an official White House press briefing on Wednesday --

White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer defended President Donald Trump's tweet against Nordstrom in a briefing today, saying Trump has "every right" to stand up for his daughter, whose clothing line was pulled from the department store.

Spicer said he believes Trump's daughter was "targeted" and that there are clear efforts to "undermine" her name due to Trump's policies.

"This is a direct attack on his policies and her name, so there's clearly an attempt for him to stand up for her because she's being maligned because they have a problem with his policies," Spicer said.

“For someone to take out their concern with his policies on a family member of his is just not acceptable,” Spicer said.

Spicer did not offer any evidence to support the claim that Nordstrom’s decision was politically motivated and not based on sales.

He also refused to address why Trump used public resources ― namely, his official White House Twitter account ― to pursue a personal vendetta on behalf of his adult daughter’s clothing brand.

A spokeswoman for Ivanka Trump’s clothing line declined to comment on the president’s tweets

Nordstrom reps pointed out they'd informed dear fragile Ivanka of this decision of this last month... AND she'd already said she was stepping away from the business (though NOT divesting, merely on "a leave of absence.")

(Weirdly or hilariously -- maybe both -- Nordstrom carries a denim line, co-owned by Khloe Kardashian, called Good American Women. )

The Right-thinking "silent majority" of the United States was so supportive of the tribulations of Donald The Menace & his shellshocked brood that they... went shopping.

On a day when the S&P 500 Index was flat and the Dow Jones Industrial Average dipped, Nordstrom shares enjoyed a fantastic rally. Near the close of trading, they were up by more than 4 percent, adding around $300 million of value for shareholders.

Then errant Stockholm-syndrome patient #1 Kellyanne Conway got loose on FOX & Friends -- btw, doesn't that program sound all cute & cuddly?? -- early Thursday morning, & despite the Thorazine managed to make sounds approximating English:

I do find it ironic that you have got some executives all over the internet bragging about what they have done to her and her line, and yet, they are using the most prominent woman in Donald Trump’s, you know, most prominent his daughter, using her, who has been a champion for women empowerment of women in the workplace, to get to him.

I think people could see through that. Go buy Ivanka’s stuff! I hate shopping, and I will go get some myself today.

It is just a wonderful line. I own some of it. I fully, I’m going to give a free commercial here. Go buy it today, everybody. You can find it online.

Hear that, feminists? Trump is all about empowerment of women, & anyone who soo much as LOOKS like he's gonna say "WTF??" hates women.



Poor Nordstrom didn't know what to do!! Their stock had started the week at around 43, the lowest it's been in six months. By Thursday afternoon, it was hovering over 46. Per those commie LibRuhl bastids at CNN,

If President Trump is trying to hurt Nordstrom, it appears he's failed.

The company's stock price has climbed more than 7% since Trump lashed out at the company on Twitter Wednesday morning.

The boost has helped Nordstrom's stock nearly recover all the losses it's taken since the beginning of the year.

Predictably, some of the Right Wingnuts tried to claim that this boost in sales & stock was due to THEM storming the doors & buying all sorts of "Ivanka" stuff... which is unlikely seeing as how the lines were already removed & anything remaining was literally in the "bargain bins." Nevertheless, they persist -- #BuyIvanka https://twitter.com/hashtag/BuyIvanka?src=hash (apparently launched by a redneck "my li'l woman works at HOME" kinda guy, @Team_Trump45, or at least that's how he paints it). In a blatant demonstration of doublethink, those very same people are claiming that they're PUNISHING Nordstrom & thus demonstrating their populist might. What, "We will bury them in profits!!"???

(One Twit pointed out with heavy sarcasm that Miss Make America Great has ALL her stuff made in Red China. The irony has completely washed over all other subscribers. Color me surprised. )

Just when you think it couldn't get any more stupid / weird / deluded... Conway paints herself as both an oppressed victim of misogyny AND a crusader for the rights of women. Per The Daily Beast:

In comments to Fox News yesterday, Trump advisor Kellyanne Conway painted the President’s reticence to discipline her for an embarrassing ethical breach as a victory for women everywhere.

Getting away with a serious ethical breach isn’t a rah-rah you-go-girl victory. It would be like getting away with robbing a bank and then yelling “This is a victory for women everywhere!” as you jump into your getaway car. Acting unethically doesn’t have a gender.

The only reason somebody with her body of knowledge would try to pull a fast one like that on America’s women is if she truly believed that America’s women were dumb enough to believe her.

Are you a straight-shooting contributor who owns her mistakes? Or are you a coward throwing punches and then hiding behind your boss and your womanhood? You don’t get to be both.

 

[vinsanity0]

"liberal elite" = Jew

Basically, everything from a Right Wingnut's mouth (or whaever) means "Jew."

Like "ivory tower".

"intellectual"

"Ivy League"

"mainstream media"

"West Coast"

"bankers"

"Hollywood"

"privileged"

I understand that is the origin of those phrases, but that is not was the great unwashed repu lican masses mean when they refer to those things. "Elite", "privileged", "ivy league", "intellectuals" now refer to anybody who is liberal and smarter than them. Most I've spoken to look at college educated liberals with disdain. That is why, the more you hit them with facts, the more they hunker down.

"Mainstream media" is any media outlet that dares to criticize Republicans. They have fallen for propaganda tactics. Now we have a president who shouts out FAKE NEWS in every other tweet. And he's flat out lying. And they are eating it up.

Another propaganda technique is to discredit Hollywood liberals because they have a public voice.

 

[vinsanity0]

At the risk of sounding like a misogynist, Kellyanne is nothing more than a political whore. Look her up from when she was working for Cruz. There is no point in believing a word she says.Her boss doesn't mind. He got his political beginnings claiming Obama was born in Kenya.

But Spicer's stutter keeps getting worse...

 

[Magdlyn]

It seems Kellyanne is finally persona non grata on CNN since her Bowling Green lies. She was depicted as a bunny boiling stalker on SNL by the brilliant Kate McKinnon.

Spicer is getting more and more nervous, and having a woman impersonate him on SNL (twice now) didn't help. He might need to be replaced soon.

Now we've got this Russia pandering Flynn probably on his way out.

Basically the Trump administration is chaos in all directions. It's like the world's nuttiest soap opera.

It was so jarring to see Trump standing side by side with the divine hottie and progressive icon Justin Trudeau yesterday! God, Canada is so lucky.

 

[vinsanity0]

I think Trump is realizing his presidency is already falling apart. I am enjoying it. His press conference was a disaster.

Flynn is out. Apparently it is Hillary's fault.

It is said his aides talked to Russians before the election, but they may not have known it. Incompetence all the way. Not surprising.

In local news, the Marlins sale may not go through because the buyer is related to Ivanka's husband. The owner of the Marlins may be offered an ambassadorship. They don't want any part of that.

 

[starlight1]

I don't need to cite any sources for my perspective, because I trust what I have seen and heard. It is damn hard to know what to trust outside of that anymore. But I've had a sense of that for a really long time. And I've known that we are far more than ONE America since I lived a goodly chunk of time in northern Virginia, Cincinnati, Des Moines, Olympia, WA, and now Colorado Springs. I might as well have been hopping around to different planets. People spoke, acted, thought and acted utterly different in each place. Live long enough in any one place, you become convinced that this is how America is, this is how people are. You adapt. Then move, and realize how different it is. When I moved to Cincinnati, I was confused because people say "please?" and it means "what?" When I moved to Des Moines, I was startled when a fast food cashier smiled at me...like, what are you looking at? What's funny? What's wrong with you? When I moved to Washington, I had to realize that my "best friends" would happily knife me in the back and take me for everything I had, but they'd do it with a smile and a hug. Fake fake fake. But it's all good so long as you PRETEND you're a great friend. When I moved to Colorado, no one got any of my jokes! I had to relearn how to even relate and communicate in every single place. We were never ONE America. And we all pick up the flavor of whatever echo chamber we live in.

We are here speaking in one right now. Where are the trump voters in this thread? Where?? Silent. But I'd bet you some have read our words, and decided that this space would be hostile to them. And decided not to post. This isn't their echo chamber. And if I went to a space where they were talking, I'd be attacked, or expect to be, too. Everyone thinks what they think, and thinks they are right and their reasons are good. Everyone.

I have afew trump friends, who are supporters of him, and they are (minority race) and (female) some of them I am not sure why they voted for him. I didn't ask. I know with one person they simply were too terrified of what Clinton may or may not do. (A strong intelligent woman has always been a threat).

I quote spork here because I too have moved so many times...And America is VERY different no matter where you go. There is so much land and so many individuals, and different state laws, and different background races religious mixes, that it's crazy. Maryland was really genuine people but a lot of conservatives- and conservationists. Utah was a bubble in a bubble in a bubble seeming to exist for its self by its self. California was the golden utopia of wealth but fuck you if you didn't have it. Texas was down right scary for me. And ohio yet again VERY different, had a lot of liberal then conservative and a lot more lax on drugs but still very religious, but like 20 different churches in a 5 mile radius.

So...yeah we are loosely unite but more like all the different terriroties of China could be called "china". I mean china technically governs them all, but wouldn't be surprised in the future if California ends up like hong kong, a league and life blood all of its own.