Roast me...?

Pimvanloen

New member
Okay, that might be a bit of a provocative title but what I meant here is that I'm very open to criticism. I want to learn where I went wrong, where can I grow, yadi yadi yada.

I've been in a relationship for 2,5 years with my long distance partner. We had a wonderful connection, sexual life, and great fun. He has been the most healthy partner for me that I have ever had, and I feel like I can be more like myself than ever before (I'm making it sound perfect, which it absolutely wasn't, but I think that's human). We have been monogamous, though I have been interested in non-monogamy throughout my life, but kind of been seeing it as a thing of the future, because I did not feel evolved enough in my emotion regulation to really pursue it yet. I just did not feel ready. Plus, I felt that I wanted to be able to heal at least part of my attachment trauma (I'm both very anxious and avoidant) before I pursued more than one relationship, as I felt that ENM would just be a way for me to avoid emotional intimacy. Therefore, I chose to pursue monogamy, at least for the time being.

However, since a year or so my partner hasn't been able to fulfill my sexual needs (though it's a bit more complex than that, I'll stick to these words to avoid complexity) - I have a really big big big struggle with sexual boredom in long-term relationships, but I was finally ready to start working on it, to be responsible for my sexuality and just try. It has not been easy, and it still is a lot of work. But my partner started to lose interest in that part a bit - we definitely had sex during the times when I visited him, but the experimenting stopped, the long-distance sexy phone calls stopped. I kept voicing that I felt like my needs were not met, I tried to talk with him about his sexuality, but he wasn't able to change it (which is human and understandable too). Again, I voiced to him that my needs were not met, but I did not say something like "if it doesn't change, I will want to open the relationship", because that just felt shitty and manipulative. And there might be a possibility that I did not voice the struggle clearly enough, because I mostly said "I miss sexuality" or I asked him questions about what's happening with him, or why we don't have phone calls like that anymore. Beside this part of the relationship, all other parts worked fine and I do feel very close with him.

Fast forward to some weeks ago - I was at an event (with him, funnily enough) where someone was doing some shibari. I have been interested in that for a long time and my partner encouraged me to be tied. And oh dear, was that a nice experience. After a long time of my needs not being met, this new interesting person and experience was like a drug. Interestingly, at the time, I did not really understand what I liked about it exactly, as it did not even feel very sexual to me (I would say, more like an adventurous new experience that I really liked). I voiced that to my partner, and said that I would really like to meet this person again for this experience. He said that shibari is sexual and I convinced him it wasn't for me (it really did feel purely like a mental thing, it didn't really arouse me at the time). The convincing turned into a long big fight. But, after meeting with this shibari person for a second time, I realized I do feel really attracted to him and the experience, and that I desire it, a lot. I did not want to hide anything from my partner, so after this meeting I immediately told him that my perception changed and that I felt that the sexual part is something I want to pursue. This hurt my partner intensely, because he felt like I was not clear from the beginning, and that I was bullshitting him. On top of that, he said that I SHOULD have said that if nothing changes, that I would open the relationship. And honestly, I don't know if I truly was wrong here or if I wasn't. He also feels that I don't care about him, because he's hurting a lot because of my actions. And in turn, I feel like a terribly selfish person, because I know that my need (or my behavior?) is hurting my partner.

So now there is this thing where I don't know what I should do. I voiced that I would like to pursue this shibari thing with this person, and that I would like to meet him around once or twice per week. But after some conversations with trusted people, they told me that I might need to break up instead. I'm really torn, because I do feel like the connection with my partner could still continue, if my needs are being met otherwise. But my partner doesn't know if he wants to be nonmonogamous (obviously, this is something he needs to figure out) but he says that the way things were started with this other person makes him feel like he cannot trust me. Plus, he is against the idea of opening the relationship "for a specific person", and that it should be done differently, that I hurried too much. And funnily enough, he started to now see that his porn habit and some other stuff was really the thing that blocked his sexuality for me, and he wants to change. Which, in turn, hurts me a lot because now I developed a (albeit small) bond with another person, and the change comes in a very, very wrong time - possibly "too late".

In turn, I feel very torn because this new experience might just be a complete NRE bomb for me, and I don't know if letting a partner go who says he wants to work on things with me (even when it's late-ish) is a good idea at all. I truly love our bond, and did not want to necessarily let it go. But honestly, I also really want to spend time with this other person.
 
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Let's call your Partner Tree and the shibari rigger Rope. Before I offer suggestions, lets ask some questions.

Did Tree know that you were interested in ENM, for some time in the future after you'd done work around your attachment avoidant issues?

Does being long distance actually help or hinder your avoidant attachment issues?

Are you aware that your NRE for Tree and his for you may have just ended?

Are you aware that sexual experimentation can fizzle after NRE does, unless your bond is long term and not just a short term kind of thing?

Have you done the kind of work around your attachment issues that you say you wanted to do before trying to do ENM? If so, what was that work? Therapy? Something else?

Lots of people can use porn but not to replace sex with a willing eager partner. What's going on there?

Is Rope a local person you'd be able to easily see once or twice a week, whereas you only see Tree X amount of time (less than once or twice a week)? Is Rope just as interested in seeing you are you are in seeing them?
 
Let's call your Partner Tree and the shibari rigger Rope. Before I offer suggestions, lets ask some questions.
Thank you for these questions!
Did Tree know that you were interested in ENM, for some time in the future after you'd done work around your attachment avoidant issues?
I was bringing up pretty often that I was struggling with doubts around this topic, and that I did not know what to do. I sometimes mentioned things about wanting to join a couple, for example. I did not say with certainty that I would want to pursue. It was something that was discussed that way, but more in a "I'm having doubts about it" way. So understandably he might not have expected this. Tree was actually way more interested in experiences together (threesomes, group).
Does being long distance actually help or hinder your avoidant attachment issues?
Good question - I don't really know. I just know that it is working pretty well for me, having a lot of me-space. Otherwise, maybe the relationship might have become too overwhelming pretty soon, and (I'm sorry about how blunt this sounds) very easily boring.
Are you aware that your NRE for Tree and his for you may have just ended?
It ended more than a year ago already!
Are you aware that sexual experimentation can fizzle after NRE does, unless your bond is long term and not just a short term kind of thing?
I am aware, but mostly rationally. Otherwise I feel super interested right now in these new experiences. It's hard to discern it, and it might be worth it even if it's temporary. That's difficult for me.
Have you done the kind of work around your attachment issues that you say you wanted to do before trying to do ENM? If so, what was that work? Therapy? Something else?
Therapy! I grew, but I'm not a finished project yet :)
Lots of people can use porn but not to replace sex with a willing eager partner. What's going on there?
Sorry, I didn't get this one. Could you rephrase? I'm not a native speaker.
Is Rope a local person you'd be able to easily see once or twice a week, whereas you only see Tree X amount of time (less than once or twice a week)? Is Rope just as interested in seeing you are you are in seeing them?
Rope lives in the same city as Tree. I'm actually not super interested in meeting someone right now in my home city, as there I feel pretty non-sexual and stressed most of the time. I'm in Tree's/Rope's city pretty often, and I feel way more free and open there. Rope is also interested in seeing me.
 
Hi Pim,

It sounds like you developed feelings for Rope unexpectedly, and since then have not pursued any actions with him. In light of these facts, I don't think you cheated on Tree, even if he feels like you did.

You now know that Tree is opposed to you having any more associations with Rope. What's left for you to do is to decide whether you are going to go against Tree's wishes (and if your answer is yes, then you should probably break up with Tree). What are your priorities here? I don't think you've done anything wrong, but you do have to make a decision.

Regards,
Kevin T.
 
But my partner doesn't know if he wants to be nonmonogamous (obviously, this is something he needs to figure out) but he says that the way things were started with this other person makes him feel like he cannot trust me.
Why would he feel this way...? because you said you wanted to meet with this person, or because you actually went ahead and met with this person? I'm confused how communicating your desires would cause your partner to not trust you
Rope is also interested in seeing me.
so did you have this convo with rope before talking to tree about it? or tree expressed not being okay and you went ahead anyway?
because I know that my need (or my behavior?) is hurting my partner.
which is it, need (communicated to partner) or behavior (meeting this other person in private without getting consent from your partner beforehand)?

You obviously can do whatever you want. But yeah, if your current partner isn't cool with it, and great sex is a requirement for your relationships, then you might need to break things off. Just because tree isn't super into sex with you doesn't mean he's cool with you physically being with other people and staying in a relationship with you. It seems like you both might need to figure out what's going on there.
Which, in turn, hurts me a lot because now I developed a (albeit small) bond with another person, and the change comes in a very, very wrong time - possibly "too late"
meeting with someone twice? three times? to me doesn't really constitute a bond that is so strong that it's "too late". I believe more in lust at first sight than love at first sight. you want sex with a new person. your partner isn't cool with it. Wants to slow things down a bit, potentially try again with a different person. Basically it's up to you to decide whether the relationship you're currently in is worth at least pumping the brakes with new person. Case for: they'll likely still be there when you and boyfriend have figured things out! Case against: it's not certain you and boyfriend will be able to make things shake, i.e. you two might not be compatible after all.
 
I'm sorry you struggle.

Let me repeat back what I understand in chronological order. You correct me if I get anything wrong, ok? (Blue highlight is mine.)

BACKGROUND
  • You have been interested in non-monogamy your whole life.
  • But you did not feel evolved enough in your emotion regulation to really pursue it yet. You just did not feel ready.
  • You also wanted to heal attachment trauma since you are both very anxious and avoidant before pursuing more than one relationship. You are in therapy for this. (Have you healed it enough now?)
  • So you and Tree dated monogamously for the time being.
  • You and Tree did talk about non-monogamy in theory -- not actual practice.
  • Tree was way more interested in experiences together (threesomes, group) where he is involved in the mix.
PROBLEM

Sex had gotten kind of meh: "dead bedroom."
  • You told him you were getting bored, asked what was going on with him, expressed that you missed sex, etc.
  • While you'd share some sex when visiting, the experimenting stopped and it became routine boring sex.
  • The long-distance sexy phone calls stopped too.
  • You kept voicing that your sex needs were not met, you tried to talk with him about his sexuality, but he wasn't able to change it and was kind of checked out.
  • Turns out Tree's porn habit amd other stuff was getting in the way. Even though you asked what was going on with him a while ago, he was not forthcoming about this until recently.

A FEW WEEKS AGO
  • At a kink event, Tree encouraged you to get tied up.
  • You enjoyed the experience as a newbie, even though you didn't understand it all.
  • You simply enjoyed having a new adventure after the sexual dry spell with Tree.
  • You told Tree that you want to see Rigger again for another shibari experience.
  • Tree was up for watching you once, but he's not up you seeing Rigger again, because shibari is sexual to Tree.
  • You said it wasn't sexual for you.
  • You and Tree have a fight over it.
  • You met with Rigger for a second session. You realized that you were attracted to Rigger, enjoyed the shibari experience and wanted to explore this kink more with him.
  • You were honest with Tree about all that.

PROBLEMS
  • Tree encouraged you to have a new experience for HIS viewing pleasure at the kink event. (Is that true? Like you are his live porn show to watch since this is sexual for Tree?)
  • When you discovered that you want to explore shibari on your own, and center it on YOUR pleasure, Tree got upset.
  • Tree is mad. He wasn't hearing you before about sex being meh. He wants to do all this "catch up" work now to fix it and prevent you from moving on, but it is kinda coming along "too little too late" for you.
  • Tree is also taking it personally, like, "you don't care about him" because you have decided to care about yourself.
  • He wants you to hear about HIS hurt and prioritize it, when he wasn't hearing you before and not prioritizing your dissatisfaction. (Is this true???
  • You are now beating yourself up, like you are a terribly selfish person because he is hurting. (Is this true???)
OPINION

Is that how it's going? If so:

I think if Tree kinda checked out when you were bringing up your concerns and now you want to move on, you are not being selfish. You're simply done with Tree taking you for granted. You tried to connect and repair, but he was checked out. You want to solve your own "sex adventure" needs without him then. He had the opportunity to work with you.

I think you are best off breaking up with Tree. Then you can move on to explore shibari, ENM, polyamory and whatever else.

he says that the way things were started with this other person makes him feel like he cannot trust me.

HOW? WHY? He encouraged you to get tied up. Why did he encourage that? To get himself off? And now that it's about your pleasure and not his, it bugs him?

You were honest every step of the way as you had the new experience and digested it and found you wanted more. How does this make you untrustworthy?

Plus, he is against the idea of opening the relationship "for a specific person", and that it should be done differently, that I hurried too much.

Say you get another rigger-- then what?

I think he's just gonna make whatever excuse because he doesn't want non-monogamy, but he also doesn't want to break up.

Like if you wanted to open in general, he'd flip it and say it should only be for specific people, or only if he gets a threesome out of it. Like he wants to insert himself into your other relationships rather than dating others separately.

And funnily enough, he started to now see that his porn habit and some other stuff was really the thing that blocked his sexuality for me, and he wants to change. Which, in turn, hurts me a lot because now I developed a (albeit small) bond with another person, and the change comes in a very, very wrong time - possibly "too late".

And now he's scrambling when he could have been paying attention all along.

I think it is OK if this effort comes "too little too late" for you. You just end it with Tree as peacefully as possible and move on. And Tree learns not to phone it in any more in future relationships.

It's a natural consequence of his own actions. What did he expect? He checks out of the relationship even though you are waving flags at him to tune back in. Were you supposed to just wait on him forever? It's ok for you to have a limit and move on if you aren't being nourished in this relationship.

In turn, I feel very torn because this new experience might just be a complete NRE bomb for me, and I don't know if letting a partner go who says he wants to work on things with me (even when it's late-ish) is a good idea at all. I truly love our bond, and did not want to necessarily let it go. But honestly, I also really want to spend time with this other person.

I'd say let it go. Each of you does your own personal work. Tree has to learn to stop phoning it in, actually LISTEN when a partner brings up concerns, heal his porn habit/addiction, and figure out if he even wants to participate in non-monogamy at all, and if he does, which kinds he is up for and which kinds he is not.

You need time to do your personal work. Figure out your own stuff, explore your kink side, etc., figure out what kinds of non-monogamy you are up for and which kinds you are not.

People break up. It comes with some sadness, as all break-ups do. But if people want to get back together later, they CAN. They don't have to act like it's the end of the world to break up now. Sometimes having some time apart is the healthiest thing. And sometimes people change and grow in different directions, want different things and there is too big a gap to bridge anymore.

Maybe reading this will help you assess where you are with it:


Me? I'd go with the "too little too late," move on, and feel sad as part of the break-up grief.

But remember you have been upfront the whole time. Even before the kink event, things were becoming "dead bedroom." If Tree wasn't listening back then, how is that your fault?

To me? It's weird he's only listening NOW when he's worried you are moving on. Like he's STILL not listening to you. It's more about himself and what he's gonna lose. I'd want to see REAL CHANGES made first before getting back together, especially with his porn habit/addiction.

And if he doesn't get it together, you are already broken up. You do not have to keep sitting around being taken for granted some more. You can be out there living your life rather than "on hold, waiting." That's the biggest turn off in all this to me: him taking you for granted and tuning out and not really answering you when you were trying to find out what happened with the dead bedroom thing.

Of course, I could be totally wrong in my impressions. Take this with a grain of salt and figure out what you actually have on your hands here and what you want to do.

GalaGirl
 
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I'm sorry you struggle.

Let me repeat back what I understand in chronological order. You correct me if I get anything wrong ok? Blue is mine.

BACKGROUND
  • You have been interested in non-monogamy your whole life.
  • But you did not feel evolved enough in your emotion regulation to really pursue it yet. You just did not feel ready.
  • You also wanted to heal attachment trauma since you are both very anxious and avoidant before pursuing more than one relationship. You are in therapy for this. (Have you healed it enough now?)
  • So you and Tree dated monogamously for the time being.
  • You and Tree did talk about non-monogamy in theory -- not actual practice.
  • Tree was way more interested in experiences together (threesomes, group) where he is involved in the mix.
PROBLEM

Sex had gotten kind of meh or "dead bedroom."
  • You told him you were getting bored, asked what was going on with him, expressed that you missed sex, etc.
  • While you'd share some sex when visiting, the experimenting stopped and it became routine boring sex.
  • The long-distance sexy phone calls stopped too.
  • You kept voicing that your sex needs were not met, you tried to talk with him about his sexuality, but he wasn't able to change it and was kind of checked out.
  • Turns out Tree's porn habit other other stuff was getting in the way. Even though you asked what was going on with him a while ago, he was not forthcoming about this til recently.

A FEW WEEKS AGO
  • At a kink event, Tree encourage you to get tied up.
  • You enjoyed the experience as a newbie, even though you didn't understand it all.
  • You simply enjoyed having a new adventure after the sexual dry spell with Tree.
  • You told Tree that you want to see Rigger again for another shibari experience.
  • Tree was up for watching you once, but he's not up you seeing Rigger again because shibari is sexual to Tree.
  • You said it wasn't sexual for you.
  • You and Tree have a fight over it.
  • You met with Rigger for a second session. You realized you are attracted to Rigger, the shibari experience and you want to go explore this kink more with him.
  • You were honest with Tree about all that.

PROBLEMS
  • Tree encouraged you to have a new experience for HIS viewing pleasure at the kink event. (Is that true? Like you are his live porn show to watch since this is sexual for Tree?)
Not really, he encouraged it because he knew I was curious, but he wasn't turned on by it.
  • When you discovered you want to explore shibari on your own, and center YOUR pleasure? He's upset.
  • Tree is mad that he wasn't hearing you before on sex being meh. And Tree wants to do all this "catch up" work now to fix it and prevent you from moving on, but it is kinda coming "too little too late" for you.
  • Tree is also taking it personally like "you don't care about him" because you have decided to care about you.
  • He wants you to hear HIS hurt and prioritize it. When he wasn't hearing yours before and not prioritizing yours. (Is this true???)
See answer below!
  • You are now beating your own self up like you are a a terribly selfish person because he hurts. (Is this true???)
See answer below!
OPINION

Is that how it goes? If so?

I think if Tree kinda checked out when you were bringing up your concerns and now you want to move on? You are not being selfish. You simply are done with Tree taking you for granted. You tried to connect and repair but he was checked out. You want to solve your own "sex adventure" needs without him then. He had opportunity to work with you.

I think you are best off breaking up with Tree.

And then you move on to explore shibari kink and ENM and polyamory and whatever else.



HOW? He encouraged you to get tied up.

Why did he encourage? To get himself off? And now that it's about your pleasure and not his, it bugs him?

You were honest every step of the way as you had the new experience and digested it and found you wanted more.

How
does this make you untrustworthy?



If you get another rigger. Then what?

I think he's just gonna make whatever excuse because he doesn't want non-monogamy but he also doesn't want to break up.

Like if you wanted to open in general, he'd flip it and say it should only be for specific people, or only if he gets a threesome out of it. Like inserting himself into your other relationships rather than dating separate.



And now he's scrambling when he could have been paying attention all along.

I think it is OK if this effort comes "too little too late" for you. You just end it with Tree as peacefully as possible. And move on. And Tree learns not to phone it in any more in future relationships.

It's a natural consequence of his own actions. What did he expect? He checks out of the relationship even though you are waving flags at him to tune back in? You are supposed to just wait on him forever? It's ok for you to have a limit. And move on if you aren't being nourished in this relationship.



I'd say let it go. Each of you does your own personal work.

Tree has to learn to stop phoning it in. Actually LISTEN when a partner brings up concerns. Heal his porn habit or porn addiction. And figure out if he even wants to participate in non-monogamy at all. And if he does? Which kinds he is up for and which kinds he is not.

You need time to do your personal work. Figure out your own stuff, explore your kink side, etc. Figure out what kinds of non-monogamy you are up for and which kinds you are not.

People break up. It comes with some sadness as all break ups do.

But if people want to get back together later? They CAN. Don't have to act like it's the end of the world to break up now.

Sometimes having some time apart is the healthiest thing.

And sometimes people change and grow in different directions and want different things. Too big a gap to bridge any more.

Maybe reading


helps you assess where you are at with it.

Me? I'd go with the "too little too late" and move on. Feel sad as part of the break up grief.

But remember you have been up front the whole time. Even before the kink event that things were getting "dead bedroom." If Tree wasn't listening back then? How is that your fault?

To me? It's weird he's only listening NOW when he's worried you are moving on. Like STILL not listening to you, more about himself and what he's gonna lose.

So I'd want to see REAL CHANGES made first before getting back together. Esp with the porn habit/porn addiction.

And if he doesn't get it together? You are already broken up.

You do not have to keep sitting around being taken for granted some more. You can be out there living your life rather than "on hold waiting."

That's the biggest turn off in all this to me. Him taking you for granted and tuning out. Not really answering when you were trying to find out what happened with the dead bedroom thing.

Of course, I could be totally wrong in my impressions. So you take it with a grain of salt and figure out what you actually have on your hands here and what you want to do.

Galagirl

So, first of all: thank you dearly. I have zero ENM/poly community around me and my therapist has been fully booked - this is the support that I truly needed. Thank you.

Though I really liked and appreciated your answer, I also want to clear up some more things because it seems to me that I did not explain my actions well enough. Or, the parts where I went wrong (in my partner's eyes). So here's a little list of those things:
  • When pronouncing my need to meet up with rope, I explained to Tree that it had absolutely nothing to do with our relationship, that it's purely about the kink and that I did not feel about him any differently. Here is probably where I should've clearly communicated that there was in fact something missing, and that's why I wanted to meet, but I was already so used to "this just being our relationship" that I did not communicate that. So then I just came, said "this is my need", and just did it (though I did not do it behind his back or anything). I asked him what would make him feel safe etc., but he couldn't really answer that.
  • In his eyes, we had an agreement (monogamous?) and I just decided to change it and I informed him, and pretend that it was absolutely okay, without acknowledging the change in agreement enough, or the hurt it caused him. I blindly followed my needs - though reassuring him with words - without taking enough time or care.
  • Before my second meeting with Rope, I spent A LOT of time convincing my partner that it wasn't sexual for me. He saw it different. He feels very shit that he was right all along.
  • He said that if I came to him with a proper reflection about what's happening, where it comes from etc., that it would have been way different. So he says he is not against me prioritizing my needs, but that I communicated unclearly.
So I do feel like even though the "dead bedroom" problem was very obvious (from my side as well), I was actually swept away with my needs finally being met without maybe doing everything right. But I don't know. Hence the title of my thread :)
 
Thank you for more info.

I don't think it changes things much though.

Tree has to figure out if he still wants to be here -- if he even wants non-monogamy and if he wants to forgive your communication not coming like he wanted. Sounds like both of you were caught by susprise at your reactions/responses to the kink event and everything after.

You have to figure out if you still want to be here or if it's "too little too late" and if you want to forgive him not being up front about the reasons for dead bedroom. And if you want to go back to monogamy or not.

I don't think pointing fingers at who did the "bigger bad" is gonna help any. In the end it's the same bottom line:

Are you and Tree still compatible? Or is this best ended?

Galagirl
 
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Regarding Rope and shibari, it sounds like you didn't know what you didn't know. Your first experience was getting tied in a public place at something akin to a "tastings" session. These generally aren't sexual at all. But add privacy, the rigger actually doing his thing with the energy down the rope, and suddenly you discovered it can be a very sexual experience. Tree might have known this already, but with the full weight of ignorance of inexperience behind you as well as a bit of "rope frenzy", you had convinced yourself and then asserted to him that it was not sexual with Rope.

Humble pie time.

But not a reason to stay with Tree. Maybe this relationship has run its course, it's better to call it a day so you can both be free to go do whatever comes next.

Regarding Rope, it reads like you don't actually know him very well right now. Can you clarify if he was basically a stranger to you at the event?

Are you in an area with so few riggers that you think only Rope can scratch that particular itch? Have you talked to him about now crushing on him? Has he talked to you about that being part of the experience of tying/being tied? Have you talked to any other rope tops or bottoms about it, educated yourself about it at all, or just jumped in to the experiential part of it?

You could honour Tree's wishes, work on your relationship together, then once ready, go find a rigger.

Or you could decide your and Tree's relationship is too far gone, and go be single and tie with whomever.

Or you could keep making plans with Rope and force Tree (and yourself) to work out your relationship with all that going on. (This sounds like what you're wanting to do, but I'm sure you can also recognise that it's not the kindest way forward.)
 
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