Should I pull out or just release grip?

Kittykatz2020

New member
Hi everyone,

I'm still struggling with finding balance in my desire to have open honest sexual encounters in my relationship ...and I can see all of the underlying issues and wonder what to do?


First of our shaky foundation based on lack of trust & communication issues is a main issue ...possibly distorted truths and likely hidden agendas from either my partner or the friends he has been chatting with another issue

where we are...

I asked for a break from meeting & or recruiting new friends from online & asked we work on the issues that are causing our rlship to be unstable. My suggestion ..seeking counselling for us as a cpl to address issues around both of our unhealthy coping issues with stress and miscommunications and to find some help with addressing dishonesty and fear in our relationship.

Secondly ..a pause to work on a legal contract to protect my share of equity and assets we have together from our LTR..ie house which is only in his name due to my credit issues .

When we last had a fight (over issues stemming from opening our relationship to others.)

Issue : not honoring our #1 agreement going in about keeping & sharing (full disclosure of texts & conversations) to ensure the trust issues we already have were not perpetuated with having new "friends" and that until we both had to keep and offer to share or view each other's texts (which he often did without even asking for my ohone. Ie..picking is up & reading my texts whenever he felt like it) but this was the core agreement and we were to then try and set guidelines mivinf forward as we never did this before -formallyn13yr monogemous).. so agreement was we would share and keep all communications with op and any plans or potential interactions would first be discussed with each other to gain permission for the date and which type of encounter so we could discuss & then plan...but full inclusion of planning process.

I asked him to share his texts as I do as well.. but then a few weeks ago I could see he was acting like he was hiding shit...and it turns out he was and when I confronted him he had been deleting all his texts. I asked why and explained as we have trust issues this was very important for us establishing an open honest communication with other people ..but his response was...my chats are private & I
didn't feel like sharing my opinions and thoughts with you as I don't always agree...and these other ppl listen to me they get me.. they agree...etc etc (anyhow another long story in that).

If course we ended up having a fight which lead to him walking out on me saying it was over...again .
Which is how he typically manages fights (As he has Asperger's and sometimes (especially recently) he has been walking out alot .and two weeks ago it really felt over...

So we made up as usual and said let's just chat with our friends online for niw. No recruiting or plans for dates or encounters...and then let's discuss in Jan after we at least get some legal support & counselling...

Well on Xmas Eve he tells me he has a day off next weekend Jan 3 ( usually he works Sundays) and he talked with his lady friend and they scheduled a date to have sex as long as I was ok with it...

Hello another fight...worse xmas ever so far...


And

Of course I'm not ok with it as we haven't even worked on our own issues..and now he's acting pissed.. then depressed and wounded because now I'm telling him he can't do something that he wants to do and he doesn't understand why because we said January...then agreeing that this will never work out because it's too difficult and we should just stop being friends with everyone completely.. to then again later last night back to almost begging ..just let me please this time..and next time we will do as u want...discuss it with you first before I make plans.. include you in the decision. Care that what you need is also important to me (which clearly mine needs to not seem to be honored at all here).Please just this time Id like to just do it as who knows when I'll get a weekend off again.....

argggg..

So for me..he's again not following some basic guidelines we talked about till blue in face ( like let's discuss any possible dates with other ppl once we secure these other issues) and instead is not respecting how my real life concerns and risks( of losing my assets..him walking away again.. and also the just regular issues with our relationship not being secure and the lives and deceit that come with that from him).

So many things. And of course the big issue and problem with why things are challenging is because the only rule we had which is why we had such a problem before Christmas is that things need to be open and honest and discussed with me in advance such as scheduling meets with ppl...but as if right now..it till a c days ago ..the plan was let's wait till Jan ..discuss reevaluate and decide how to move forward or to decide not to...

I think I'm fighting a losing battle .any insight will be great. I think pulling the plugs permanently is the only solution sadly. 🥴
 
Invasive rules are made to be broken. Sorry you learned that the hard way.
Try again, but afford each other, and anyone you're talking to, some damn privacy.
 
SW and I have no issues with the other looking at texts. But, we also respect each other’s privacy so we don’t look. It is a nice combination of willing to share vs respect. If you do not feel the respect is there, exit. It likely will never be.
 
I think pulling the plugs permanently is the only solution sadly.

  • If this relationships is dishonest and causes fearfulness in you?
  • He will not take a pause from trying to date other people to see a counselor to work on issues that make this relationship unstable?
  • He will not take a pause to work on a legal contract to protect your share of equity and assets?
  • He makes and then cheats on agreements rather than renegotiate or not agree in the first place?
  • His way of solving problems is to break up with you and then get back together and you are tired of that roller coaster?

Then why are you still here? Let it end once and for all so you can be free of all this.

Linger in the healing space. Not the dragging it out space.

Galagirl
 
Hi Corrina,

It sounds like your partner is not honoring the rules that you and he agreed on. Like most of all, he agreed to not make any plans to actually meet anyone; instead, he should just talk to them via text. But now he has gone ahead and made plans to meet up with someone (for sex) without checking in with you first. And he is asking you to make an exception, "just this one time." This is totally unfair on his part. You need to sit down with him and explain that from now on, he must adhere to the rules he agreed to. Sure he can have sex with this other woman this one time, but from now on, in the future, he must honor the rules to which he agreed. You have to put your foot down and demand he agree. And if he won't agree, well, maybe that is the time to break up with him. I hope it doesn't come to that ...

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
SW and I have no issues with the other looking at texts. But, we also respect each other’s privacy so we don’t look. It is a nice combination of willing to share vs respect. If you do not feel the respect is there, exit. It likely will never be.
Thank you
Invasive rules are made to be broken. Sorry you learned that the hard way.
Try again, but afford each other, and anyone you're talking to, some damn privacy.
We are still learning ..privacy does not equate deception and intentional sabotage.
I think pulling the plugs permanently is the only solution sadly.

  • If this relationships is dishonest and causes fearfulness in you?
  • He will not take a pause from trying to date other people to see a counselor to work on issues that make this relationship unstable?
  • He will not take a pause to work on a legal contract to protect your share of equity and assets?
  • He makes and then cheats on agreements rather than renegotiate or not agree in the first place?
  • His way of solving problems is to break up with you and then get back together and you are tired of that roller coaster?

Then why are you still here? Let it end once and for all so you can be free of all this.

Linger in the healing space. Not the dragging it out space.

Galagirl
Thank you Galagirl,

I suppose I'm still hoping for best and wondering if my concerns are valid or just my own poor reactions due to my newness or in inexperience with these types of rules or complex design relationships .

Clearly we are not at the stability I had thought we were at...and whoa I'm hanging in but ouch..so much to work on.

Thx for your input
 
Hi Corrina,

It sounds like your partner is not honoring the rules that you and he agreed on. Like most of all, he agreed to not make any plans to actually meet anyone; instead, he should just talk to them via text. But now he has gone ahead and made plans to meet up with someone (for sex) without checking in with you first. And he is asking you to make an exception, "just this one time." This is totally unfair on his part. You need to sit down with him and explain that from now on, he must adhere to the rules he agreed to. Sure he can have sex with this other woman this one time, but from now on, in the future, he must honor the rules to which he agreed. You have to put your foot down and demand he agree. And if he won't agree, well, maybe that is the time to break up with him. I hope it doesn't come to that ...

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
Thank you Kevin,

Seems alike alot of confusion and yes we both agree his behaviour is unacceptable at best...but for some reason still keep trying and hoping🤔
 
Sigh. I mean this kindly ok?

You might be new or inexperienced at poly but you are the expert at YOU. Your concerns are valid to you. You know what feels ok to you and what does not. What is just "growing pains" to polyshipping and what's just crap behavior poly or not. Whether or not someone treats you well or not.

If this partner's behavior is unacceptable to you? He doesn't respect your real life concerns and risks? Could stop accepting it and let it STAY broken up instead of taking him back so much.

You don't have to keep yourself in the line of fire. Esp. when it comes up over and over.

then agreeing that this will never work out because it's too difficult and we should just stop being friends with everyone completely.. to then again later last night back to almost begging ..just let me please this time..and next time we will do as u want...discuss it with you first before I make plans.. include you in the decision. Care that what you need is also important to me (which clearly mine needs to not seem to be honored at all here).Please just this time Id like to just do it as who knows when I'll get a weekend off again.....

None of that sounds like dignified behavior to me. I wouldn't want to be cast in role of "parent" or something to a person like this.

He could just behave like an adult and don't make agreements with me he doesn't intend to keep. And if he does and I decide he is a flake with promises? I don't take him at his Word, and I date him knowing that he just says whatever is handy in the moment. It's not actually TRUE. I stop expecting and stop looking for Mr. Serious here when really he's just a Mr. Flaky Casual and that's it. Enjoy it for what it is. Or I don't date him at all. There are Mr. Casuals out there who don't make any promises and say so up front. But DO deliver on good time without being all flaky.

You just decide what you are willing and not willing to put up with. What else is there to do?

Me? I'd just not date him at all. I don't need the headache. Even for Mr. Casuals I want some basic decent behavior and basic respect. Drama and begging and loop-de-loo... not into that.

FWIW? While I think the agreement to show/share all the texts is a bit much since all people need some privacy? If it's in place because you basically don't trust him to be honest with you and treat you well? Rather than bend yourself into pretzels setting up these "protections" to keep you safe from him and his behaviors?

Could accept this is NOT a healthy relationship. And decide It's ok to end it and walk away. Solve it that way instead.


So for me..he's again not following some basic guidelines we talked about till blue in face

Well, coudl stop talking. He keeps treating you poorly and walking out. And you keep on taking him back. He's learned you will make some noise about his behavior, but in the end? He doesn't HAVE to change anything because he can cry you his song and you will take him back and keep on sticking around. So why would he bother actually changing? It works for him how it is.

I get breaking up hurts, but it hurts less than riding the same merry-go-round and getting hurt some more over and over. :(

Galagirl
 
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Galagirl
I am so appreciative of your insight and response, thank you very much.

I also agree with you on so many things and I fully am leaning on that side as knowing that what I want and need on my side are not really too high of an expectation and really what most people could want and expect at the very least in all of their relationships ...whether open, poly or monogamous.. or whatever that definition is.

I also recognize that within myself ,coming from an abusive former relationship and growing up in very abusive violent home as a child, I have somehow normalized most types of common misbehaviors as no big deal and usually something I am more than equipped to handle...at best....as this is often the l least of the worst abuse I've seen...

I also realize that just because I feel like I'm equipped to handle the situation does mean that the situation is not doing me harm (which of course I know ATM the deceit continues to cause me great harm). In this situation with my SO the foundation of knowing that he has brain difference being on the spectrum (Asperger's / high functioning autism) which is often a different perception that mine , could mean that I also decide to give more wiggle room for a longer understanding of what is good communication and respect when going into new situations which have alot of grey areas in a in primary black & white thinker🙄.

It's not like I want to give excuses but I sometimes wonder if my situation is normal or if it's just hammering out the details with someone who I can now see may not be able to manage complex designed relationships?

then the other part of me is like damn girl didn't you leave that cycle abuse behind the last time you left your ex...and maybe now after 13yrs you're just seeing that instead you didn't leave the cycle ...just traded it ...to only now ask myself if I were to leave this situation behind how would I ever not find myself in the same situation again calling it by a different name?

And I know all deep introspective questions to keep asking ...but I do thank you for giving me some insight to make me realize that I wasn't being too strict or ridiculous to think that these rules I hope for shouldn't be bent back and forth over and over again like groundhog Day.. thank you so much. And also it was only because my understanding is having boundaries and understandings in place where what works best in these new structures initially..

I do believe that my guy loves me very much but I also do believe that the confusion and the gray area of these complex design relationships is just too much for him to be able to handle...he's more based on instinctual responses than foresight communication and planning...

Thx again for well thought of reflective response 😺
 
Thank you for more info.


I also recognize that within myself ,coming from an abusive former relationship and growing up in very abusive violent home as a child, I have somehow normalized most types of common misbehaviors as no big deal and usually something I am more than equipped to handle...at best....as this is often the l least of the worst abuse I've seen...

I'm sorry you had to deal with that. You are a survivor.

That said? Reading that makes me feel sad. Yes, maybe you can "handle minor abuse" but you could decide that even if you can handle it? You just don't feel like taking it any more and want ZERO abuse in your life! Why SHOULD you take it? Haven't you withstood enough already?
You could decide you want to actually THRIVE in your romantic relationships and not just survive them. Could want more from Life for yourself.

Instead of leaving the personal standard bar low like "At least there is minimal abuse here" could raise the bar a few notches higher.

If you want to have open honest sexual encounters? Like in an open or poly relationship? And this partner just doesn't make the cut for that because he lacks the skills, doesn't keep his Word, and is not trustworthy? Loving him won't change those behaviors. Because love alone is not enough to make a sustainable relationship.

He just doesn't make the cut then. Because he does nothing to change his behaviors.

Having ADHD doesn't necessarily make him a bad person, but if he keeps ON doing bad behavior toward you and doesn't respect you? The ADHD is not an excuse for you to keep on putting up with that bad behavior and keep you in the line of fire. Because you deserve good treatment.

You ARE allowed to have your own personal standard for what you will and will not put up with.

then the other part of me is like damn girl didn't you leave that cycle abuse behind the last time you left your ex...and maybe now after 13yrs you're just seeing that instead you didn't leave the cycle ...just traded it ...to only now ask myself if I were to leave this situation behind how would I ever not find myself in the same situation again calling it by a different name?

It's not about never finding yourself in the same situation ever again. It's about improving your BD radar and reducing risk AND learning to recognize it faster and getting out faster if you do get a dud while dating.

Could see a a counselor, call up women's shelters and ask about "healthy dating class." Learn the wheels of power and control and health dating.


A while back I had to drive a friend of mine who left an abusive marriage to her health dating class at a community room in a mall. It was put on by one of the women's shelters in and effort to reduce domestic violence and help people get away and heal. In pandemic, that might not be happening like that. Maybe they are more online now. But learning to tell the difference between healthy and unhealthy behaviors and raising your personal standard? That matters.

After leaving the abusive husband, my friend started dating a drunk. She was all like "Yay! He doesn't hit me!" and we were all like "Dude, that's ALL it take to be with you? Not to hit you? Dude is funny, but he's also a drunk who can't hold a job and pay his bills. This is great HOW?"

It took her a while to really heal and see that she didn't have to be thinking like "survival" and think about higher goals. Like actually getting along, having shared values, wanting the same things in life, being deeply compatible with a partner etc.

She was also really weird for a while. Kept looking over her shoulders. She didn't trust her own judgement or perceptions because she was so used to her ex telling her she was thinking wrong or seeing things wrong. It takes time to heal and be really ok again.

It's not like I want to give excuses but I sometimes wonder if my situation is normal or if it's just hammering out the details with someone who I can now see may not be able to manage complex designed relationships?

Doesn't have to be "either/or." Could be "both /and." Could be both NOT healthy behavior here AND you are trying to make a complex relationship model with someone who doesn't have the skills.

but I do thank you for giving me some insight to make me realize that I wasn't being too strict or ridiculous to think that these rules I hope for shouldn't be bent back and forth over and over again like groundhog Day.. thank you so much. And also it was only because my understanding is having boundaries and understandings in place where what works best in these new structures initially..

You are not crazy to have a personal standard for what you want. Either someone is compatible with it or they just aren't.

It's fine to have some personal boundaries and some agreements.

Agreeing to use safer sex practices like birth control and testing? That's a reasonable agreement.

Personal boundaries? You make those for YOU to help keep you safe. Me? I have anxiety. I also deal with wacky eldercare with my Alzheimer dad. I have nothing against other people who might have mental health issues, but I have to have a personal boundary to keep ME safe. I want my free time to really be FREE, and not like taking up another case load.

One of my personal boundaries is "3 strikes." Anyone can make mistakes. If there's a good faith effort and ok it maybe takes 4 attempts to solve something? Fine. But I'm also not going to be giving 30, 300, 3000 second chances. There's a point where I'm going to call it "Nope. This is chronic and that's not good enough for me to stick around here. I want better than that." I will walk. Relationships to me are supposed to be fun, easy, rewarding. NOT like me having to do all this work. Again, I don't need another patient case load!

You don't have to have the same number as me, but please think about picking one. Esp as an abuse survivor. You do NOT deserve poor treatment, including from you. So don't keep you in yucky stuff giving infinite second chances. Have the courage to say "Nope, not a good enough dating offer for me" and walk away!

You can love someone a whole lot but you have to love you too. You have to be able to say "No. I love you a lot. But not even for you will I do stuff or stay in stuff that is hurting me."

GL!

Galagirl
 
Thank you GG!
I almost feel like throwing $120 to you for your well-developed insightful response 😺.

I have more and more just recently begun to step back and acknowledgment that I myself could be perpetuating a co dependent unhealthy relationship and for whatever reason had still been (till recently) telling myself that despite the problems and the concerns that I have with his behavior that ultimately his behavior was not his fault it was due to his brain disorder..which I do know some of his behavior is.. however you're right the rest of it whether it's 5 or 10 or 20 times of the same loop-de-lu as you call it which is just exactly what it is 🙄.. should not be unacceptable and yes exactly what I said to him that the rest of our life is back and forth like this and this new situation cannot take on that same cycle because I cannot have another cycle within our life that was supposed to be adding fun and light to instead be twisted with these repeated unhealthy cycles.

I also feel I need to realize that I myself more than anyone is the one that needs to jump off this mira-go -round as I know it is really me that is keeping myself in the same definition of what ultimately is making me even more crazy( I respect and mental health issues as myself I have anxiety and complex childhood PTSD) but somehow I just realized that it is my own fault to create these problems because I'm the one that suggested opening our relationship... So that voice inside of me that I deserve whatever problems happen would be my fault too...which of course was always reflection is making me realize that it's just poor thinking on my part because I cannot and should not ever be responsible for one second for how he behaves..

Although I have had more than 20 years of counseling and a background in training and counseling and social services... I guess my wounded self continues to make excuses for people's bad behavior towards me and accepts it as normal because deep down I guess I'm still more broken than I realized...all the while thinking I had grown somehow...more lessons here it seems.

I do believe that these conversations in here..and this opportunity to bring and add more positive experiences to my life may be highlighting the brokenness of our foundation instead of highlighting the strength I thought we had reached.

This in fact terrifies me..the knowing how it's not me just been green...and him or I not just hammering out common issues..

I want so badly to keep the love he offers as at times that love and in those times...the love feels sooo real...but then as fast as it's beautiful the other flip side is it's not maintainable or real as when he walks away and tells me it's over the ending is just as convincing and just as non loving as anyone could ever imagine.

I do deserve better...I do want security ..and he usually agrees and tells me he pushes me away as he also agrees I deserve better..but he only says that when we are back to the love...while in the darkness with him...rarely can a flicker of love light be found☹️🥺.

I guess I want my cake and eat it too and all areas of my life.. accepting abuse but I also still feeding on and wanting the love...damn still messed up girl.

Thanks for helping me see❤️
 
Glad it helped you some.

If you want stability? And think you deserve better than this? You can stop taking him back.

Even though he has moments of loving behavior toward you that are lovely? If those are the commercial breaks and the main show is unstable loop-de-loo? You keep going round and round on the same issues to no avail? Could accept it's not going to change here.

I do believe that these conversations in here..and this opportunity to bring and add more positive experiences to my life may be highlighting the brokenness of our foundation instead of highlighting the strength I thought we had reached.

Again, could be both. Yeah, you maybe both improved from whatever the before was. But the improvement is still not enough to make it worthwhile.

I also feel I need to realize that I myself more than anyone is the one that needs to jump off this mira-go -round as I know it is really me that is keeping myself in the same definition of what ultimately is making me even more crazy.

Yup. You are in charge of your staying-ness. You do not have to keep yourself in yucky. If you already know this ride goes nowhere? It's on you to stop buying another ticket. NOT hop on for another go around.

So that voice inside of me that I deserve whatever problems happen would be my fault too...which of course was always reflection is making me realize that it's just poor thinking on my part because I cannot and should not ever be responsible for one second for how he behaves.

Is that really YOUR voice? Or some other person's voice saying you deserve crap? Your former abuser(s)? An overbearing parent, grandparent or other relative? Sometimes one internalizes "old tapes" from other people and even though the people are gone? One keeps on playing these old tapes in our heads. So work is needed to throw them out and listen for your true voice inside.

You are not actually responsible for how other people behave.

I've noticed that people who grow up around volatile people try to protect themselves by becoming fortune tellers. Predicting how Mr. or Ms. Volcano will react or respond. Then trying to make the world cushy for them so they DO NOT blow up and hurt those around them. So these people end up feeling responsible for Mr. or Ms. Volcano's feelings and behaviors and wanting to keep them on the "happy" setting all the time.

Well, you are NOT actually responsible for other people's behavior choices. They are responsible for their choices.

Galagirl
 
Glad it helped you some.

If you want stability? And think you deserve better than this? You can stop taking him back.

Even though he has moments of loving behavior toward you that are lovely? If those are the commercial breaks and the main show is unstable loop-de-loo? You keep going round and round on the same issues to no avail? Could accept it's not going to change here.



Again, could be both. Yeah, you maybe both improved from whatever the before was. But the improvement is still not enough to make it worthwhile.



Yup. You are in charge of your staying-ness. You do not have to keep yourself in yucky. If you already know this ride goes nowhere? It's on you to stop buying another ticket. NOT hop on for another go around.



Is that really YOUR voice? Or some other person's voice saying you deserve crap? Your former abuser(s)? An overbearing parent, grandparent or other relative? Sometimes one internalizes "old tapes" from other people and even though the people are gone? One keeps on playing these old tapes in our heads. So work is needed to throw them out and listen for your true voice inside.

You are not actually responsible for how other people behave.

I've noticed that people who grow up around volatile people try to protect themselves by becoming fortune tellers. Predicting how Mr. or Ms. Volcano will react or respond. Then trying to make the world cushy for them so they DO NOT blow up and hurt those around them. So these people end up feeling responsible for Mr. or Ms. Volcano's feelings and behaviors and wanting to keep them on the "happy" setting all the time.

Well, you are NOT actually responsible for other people's behavior choices. They are responsible for their choices.

Galagirl
Yes thank you ❤️🙏
 
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