Three months ago my wife asked for ENM so she could explore her new found bisexuality, I agreed so we both decided I would remain mono and she would not date other men. I told her my expectations were that their relationship would not interfere with our marriage and that I wanted it to be more fwb and not a more structured relationship. Since then they have both admitted to loving each other, and don't see any problem even though this is not what I or her partners wife wanted. Should I ask her to slow down and rethink where this is going, any advice would be great.
Should I put the breaks on
- Thread starter RH_1982
- Start date
You can try to make rules like, "Sex only, no feelings allowed." But sex and feelings go hand-in-hand for most people. Some people, swingers especially, are able to separate the two by doing certain behaviors, such as: getting up and dressed right after the sex is over, making minimal eye contact, only texting briefly to set up the next play date, not have comfy cuddles or overnight dates, just more of a "wham bam thank you ma'am" kind of thing.
Swingers generally go into an event together, where there is an understanding that all the people at the event are also partnered, and there will be sex with others, even a few laughs, but everyone goes home with their original partner. Rarely will they go on to set up one-on-one dates separately. That can lead to pair bonding and they don't want that.
Her partner is a married woman? And this other partner and you both expected their wives could "explore their bisexuality" by just having gay sex with no feelings, no laughs, no sharing of things in common, such as hobbies and life experiences, etc. Just get in there, do the deed, and get out.
You may be realizing that this was an unreasonable expectation now. And asking your wife to leave her partner, whom she loves, and is loved by, could explode in your face. You'd break both their hearts if you vetoed their relationship since they fell in love "against the rules." This could lead to your wife resenting you, even falling out of love with you.
What do you mean by "slowing down and rethinking where this is going"? It sounds like neither of you did much research into open relationships. Maybe your wife already even had her new partner in mind when she asked you to consent to an open marriage.
Yes, you could ask her to take a bit of a break from seeing her OSO until you both read more poly literature, especially the book Opening Up (available on Amazon). People are capable of loving more than one person romantically and sexually. This new relationship your wife has may not be a threat to your own marriage.
It's not that I want them to break up and yes I did a lot of reading and post some other conversations here, but she did not and jumped in head first and didn't want to hear anything i was reading about. So the hardest part about this is she asked me to stay mono bc I'm straight and I have a women at home, but is it wrong of me to say the same thing in return, you have a loving relationship at home so there is no reason for another.
SEASONEDpolyAgain
Well-known member
Absolutely. I'd announce tonight that unless she is willing to allow me intimacy outside the marriage too, the agreement to open has ended.
I'm not sure if this helps you. I'm just gonna guess some things. Like throw things at the wall and see what sticks. Maybe nothing does. Maybe little bits do.
So is this about "equal on both sides?" And even though you agreed to no dating on your side at the start... You realized that you prefer to have the option there? Even if you don't use it? Because having the option and YOU choosing not to use? That is different than the option not being there at all?
Is this about wonky agreement? That this should never have been based on gender? Like she gets a pass to date women because you aren't one. And you aren't into dudes, so no interest. But instead "We each can date who we are attracted to" would have been better agreement making?
Is this about not having read enough to realize that when people share sex, love can bloom? And then the choice is to be honest and risk the established partner asking you to dump the new partner because that wasn't the deal? Or start lying to the established partner?
Is this about romantic exclusiveness? Are you ok with them sharing love? You just don't want poly hell stuff leaking over on to this side of the V and disrupting your relationship with her? You think if this escalates past FWB, she won't be able to keep things separate?
Or do you want romantic exclusiveness. You are ok with her sharing sex with others, but you want to be the only partner she shares romance with?
Is it that you don't like that she's "jump in feet first?" And then it is like doing her homework for her. So you can spot potential problems and come up with solutions and all that because you don't want to get dinged. And then you look up one day and you are doing all this extra work when it's not even your other relationship? But hers? Like you'd do your fair share but you aren't doing it all. Is that it?
Is it lack of self awareness and how their actions affect others? Like yay, they are in love. NRE pink fluffy lala clouds. But what about you and the other spouse? This is ANOTHER adjustment. Are you gonna get some support here on that? Or this is you and the other spouse just all in service to this twitterpated couple and your own need to be seen, validated, helped, appreciated etc go by the wayside?
Something else?
Yes. You can say that orange part.
Not real sure why you said "Ok" when she asked you the part in blue.
But being bisexual is not a "hall pass" to just run right over you or do some weird moving goal posts thing. Like she just HAS to have one of each -- a man and a woman partner or something. And you just have to lump it and be up for being in a V. You don't have to be into polyamory just because she is. There is NOTHING wrong with monogamy.
You could have said the part in orange from the start. It's ok to say it now.
You can...
But those are the basic options I can see. I'm not sure what level you are at.
What is it you actually want for your own self? Mostly this reads like "How can I cope with all the stuff my wife wants?" Where are YOU? What do YOU actually want for your own self?
So is this about "equal on both sides?" And even though you agreed to no dating on your side at the start... You realized that you prefer to have the option there? Even if you don't use it? Because having the option and YOU choosing not to use? That is different than the option not being there at all?
Is this about wonky agreement? That this should never have been based on gender? Like she gets a pass to date women because you aren't one. And you aren't into dudes, so no interest. But instead "We each can date who we are attracted to" would have been better agreement making?
Is this about not having read enough to realize that when people share sex, love can bloom? And then the choice is to be honest and risk the established partner asking you to dump the new partner because that wasn't the deal? Or start lying to the established partner?
Is this about romantic exclusiveness? Are you ok with them sharing love? You just don't want poly hell stuff leaking over on to this side of the V and disrupting your relationship with her? You think if this escalates past FWB, she won't be able to keep things separate?
Or do you want romantic exclusiveness. You are ok with her sharing sex with others, but you want to be the only partner she shares romance with?
Is it that you don't like that she's "jump in feet first?" And then it is like doing her homework for her. So you can spot potential problems and come up with solutions and all that because you don't want to get dinged. And then you look up one day and you are doing all this extra work when it's not even your other relationship? But hers? Like you'd do your fair share but you aren't doing it all. Is that it?
Is it lack of self awareness and how their actions affect others? Like yay, they are in love. NRE pink fluffy lala clouds. But what about you and the other spouse? This is ANOTHER adjustment. Are you gonna get some support here on that? Or this is you and the other spouse just all in service to this twitterpated couple and your own need to be seen, validated, helped, appreciated etc go by the wayside?
Something else?
Yes. You can say that orange part.
Not real sure why you said "Ok" when she asked you the part in blue.
But being bisexual is not a "hall pass" to just run right over you or do some weird moving goal posts thing. Like she just HAS to have one of each -- a man and a woman partner or something. And you just have to lump it and be up for being in a V. You don't have to be into polyamory just because she is. There is NOTHING wrong with monogamy.
You could have said the part in orange from the start. It's ok to say it now.
You can...
- Say you want open on both sides.
- Say you want to go back to monogamy/closed on both sides.
- Say you want a trial separation.
- Say you want to break up and part ways because you two do not agree and are no longer compatible and don't need a trial time apart.
But those are the basic options I can see. I'm not sure what level you are at.
What is it you actually want for your own self? Mostly this reads like "How can I cope with all the stuff my wife wants?" Where are YOU? What do YOU actually want for your own self?
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SEASONEDpolyAgain
Well-known member
But I wouldn't have ever insisted she only dates women so... but no, just close the relationship at this point.
Openbook23
Active member
Ah, the 'don't fall in love' rule. A classic! Unfortunately, people don't choose to fall in love. You might be able to avoid falling in love by avoiding a particular person, whom you sense could lead to a loving relationship. But, as noted above, you can't expect people to hang out with each other (and even have sex!) without getting feelings. It's just not realistic. Sure, sex without love happens...a lot. But sex is intimate, and intimacy can lead to connections beyond sex.
I'm sorry this is making things hard on everyone, but it was an unrealistic rule in the first place. You could 'slow things down', whatever that means. But your wife will still be in love with this woman. If you try to veto it? Probably won't end well. She could refuse. Then what? She could agree but resent you for it. After all, you'd be telling her to stop being with someone she loves. How would you feel in the reverse?
The core problem (IMO) that both of you are suffering from here is that you are buying into the exclusivity of love. While we are not taught that we can only love one family member or one friend or one child, we are taught that for some reason, we should only have one romantic love. It's simply not true. Why is one woman who loves you enough for you, but one person is not enough for her? The truth is that people can be monogamous if they want. That's great! But it's not because we only have room for one love. There are many good reasons to be monogamous (time, lack of interest in other people, etc.). However, it's not the only proper way to love. You can (romantically) love more than one person at a time, and the effect can be additive. That's what the exclusivity myth misses. Love is not a finite resource. It's abundant, IF you let it be abundant.
Now, if the NRE between your wife and this other woman is interfering in their other relationships, that's something that should be addressed. Are you feeling neglected? Is she missing events you had planned? That's not respectful to your relationship. But that's a separate issue from whether she should be allowed to love this woman.
Personally, if I were in your position, I would want to be open on my side, but then I'm poly and perhaps you are not. There's nothing wrong with one person having multiple partners and the other not. It's the rule that would bother me.
I'm sorry this is making things hard on everyone, but it was an unrealistic rule in the first place. You could 'slow things down', whatever that means. But your wife will still be in love with this woman. If you try to veto it? Probably won't end well. She could refuse. Then what? She could agree but resent you for it. After all, you'd be telling her to stop being with someone she loves. How would you feel in the reverse?
The core problem (IMO) that both of you are suffering from here is that you are buying into the exclusivity of love. While we are not taught that we can only love one family member or one friend or one child, we are taught that for some reason, we should only have one romantic love. It's simply not true. Why is one woman who loves you enough for you, but one person is not enough for her? The truth is that people can be monogamous if they want. That's great! But it's not because we only have room for one love. There are many good reasons to be monogamous (time, lack of interest in other people, etc.). However, it's not the only proper way to love. You can (romantically) love more than one person at a time, and the effect can be additive. That's what the exclusivity myth misses. Love is not a finite resource. It's abundant, IF you let it be abundant.
Now, if the NRE between your wife and this other woman is interfering in their other relationships, that's something that should be addressed. Are you feeling neglected? Is she missing events you had planned? That's not respectful to your relationship. But that's a separate issue from whether she should be allowed to love this woman.
Personally, if I were in your position, I would want to be open on my side, but then I'm poly and perhaps you are not. There's nothing wrong with one person having multiple partners and the other not. It's the rule that would bother me.
I am perfectly happy to be monogamous and I understand that me asking her to not fall in love was a shot in the dark, but I know my wife and if the roles were reversed she wouldn't be ok. For me this is one of the hardest things I'm supposed to just be ok with her and this relationship and for the most part deal and figure out the emotional pitfalls on my own.
Openbook23
Active member
I wouldn't go that far. You are allowed to have feelings, of course. You are allowed to ask for help with some of those feelings. Yes, some of them you probably have to deal with on your own (that's just how feelings are). But I'm sorry it's so hard. And yeah, it's especially hard when you feel that if the roles were reversed, things wouldn't be fair/even/whatever.
Are you saying if you wanted open on your side she would pitch a fit? She wants open for her but not for you?
No. You do not have to "just be ok" with this. You also do not have to deal with the emotional pitfalls on your own. While ultimately you are responsible for your emotional management, you CAN talk to others and get help sorting.
While mono-poly can work out, I think it's because the mono person is "monoamorous" and wants to love 1 sweetie and "relationship flexible" like they can do either a monogamous 1:1 thing, or be like an end point person in a poly "V." They don't really
If a person is "monoamorous" and wants to love 1 sweetie and is also "strictly monogamous" and wants to be in 1:1 relationship shapes only? No other people but those 2? Fair enough. NOTHING wrong with monogamy.
But they are gonna have a hard time bending into pretzels doing a poly V just to keep the partner happy because they are moving away from core values.
You could ask her if she's willing to agree to no NEW people. Just you and this other partner and that's it. Cuz this is enough to process and you don't need MORE stress piling on.
I asked what YOU wanted. Like remove wife from the picture temporarily. In a world where you could have whatever you want... what would you pick for YOUR romantic relationships? What do you seek in a partner?
Then you bring wife back in and see if she still makes the cut or if in some areas... no so much.
You may need more time to sort out how you feel.
You might also be dealing in poly hell things.
But no. She does whatever she wants and you are just supposed to lump it? This is not ok.
You can talk here, to people IRL, think about a poly counselor, look for support groups, etc to figure out how you want to deal with this.
If it's that you both got into this undereducated and are being caught by surprise? That is one thing. Both could catch up the work.
But her just all latidah behaving like a free agent, being an ugh hinge chasing the New Shiny Person and neglecting you the established partner? If it's like that? It's not ok.
She has told me in the past she would never be ok with me having a emotional bond with anyone but her, and she has asked me to stay mono bc I already have a women at home. She has no interest in other men and also has no intention of looking for any other partners. I have spent almost 20 years with her so I know she is who I want to be with that has never been a question for me. As for what I want I was hoping she would be content with a fwb relationship with her partner and keep the love in our marriage. I see now this is not possible I just don't know how to move forward without causing any damage to our relationship. I am getting some help from a therapist but they don't always have much advice for me, which is why I'm here for advice from people they know and understand.
Openbook23
Active member
Let's focus on just your core problem then. Trying to break them up will damage your relationship. Telling them to just stop is the same thing. However, your partner (any partner) should be respectful of your needs, too. There are several common ways to accomplish this in poly. This list won't be exhaustive but will give some ideas:
Scheduling: Knowing when they will be meeting and for how long is just common courtesy. This doesn't mean you have to put limits on it (though some try that). But simply having on the calendar "Oh, you two will be hanging out for 3 hours next Thursday? I'll plan accordingly" can make a big difference.
Re-attuning: Take some time to reattune your own relationship. Spend some quality time either talking about how important you are too each other, working through feelings of demotion/abandonment, or even going on dates yourself. We tend to neglect that in monogamous relationships sometimes, assuming that the bond itself does all the work. It doesn't. This is a good opportunity to re-establish why you love each other
Spend time with both of them: This one REALLY depends. Some people like hanging out with the partners of their partner, but for others, it's very triggering. It can be a way to make sure you still get to spend time together without keeping them apart. But it takes some emotional maturity and a secure connection for this one to work.
Boundaries: I saw this somewhere....Rules are about what you are allowed to do. Boundaries are about what I need. Boundaries are important. If you don't want to listen to details of your wife with this other person, you should say so. This isn't Don't Ask Don't Tell per se. It's just about your personal boundaries. Often, our boundaries will change over time, but being clear about them is helpful.
Therapy: You are doing this, but ideally find one that knows something about poly, as they will have more experience with this sort of situation. It's not uncommon. You aren't alone.
Education: Read the poly books recommended all over this website. People often recommend Opening Up around here. I like PolySecure. But in your case, Designer Relationships might be the way to go because it talks about all sorts of arrangements and how to make sure everyone is getting what they need/want
Scheduling: Knowing when they will be meeting and for how long is just common courtesy. This doesn't mean you have to put limits on it (though some try that). But simply having on the calendar "Oh, you two will be hanging out for 3 hours next Thursday? I'll plan accordingly" can make a big difference.
Re-attuning: Take some time to reattune your own relationship. Spend some quality time either talking about how important you are too each other, working through feelings of demotion/abandonment, or even going on dates yourself. We tend to neglect that in monogamous relationships sometimes, assuming that the bond itself does all the work. It doesn't. This is a good opportunity to re-establish why you love each other
Spend time with both of them: This one REALLY depends. Some people like hanging out with the partners of their partner, but for others, it's very triggering. It can be a way to make sure you still get to spend time together without keeping them apart. But it takes some emotional maturity and a secure connection for this one to work.
Boundaries: I saw this somewhere....Rules are about what you are allowed to do. Boundaries are about what I need. Boundaries are important. If you don't want to listen to details of your wife with this other person, you should say so. This isn't Don't Ask Don't Tell per se. It's just about your personal boundaries. Often, our boundaries will change over time, but being clear about them is helpful.
Therapy: You are doing this, but ideally find one that knows something about poly, as they will have more experience with this sort of situation. It's not uncommon. You aren't alone.
Education: Read the poly books recommended all over this website. People often recommend Opening Up around here. I like PolySecure. But in your case, Designer Relationships might be the way to go because it talks about all sorts of arrangements and how to make sure everyone is getting what they need/want
Hi RH_1982,
It's time for your wife to slow down and rethink things. Tell her this. Unfortunately, I don't think she's going to be willing to do it. It seems to me that you are worried about losing her (divorce), but she isn't worried about losing you. She is in the position of power here.
With sympathy,
Kevin T.
It's time for your wife to slow down and rethink things. Tell her this. Unfortunately, I don't think she's going to be willing to do it. It seems to me that you are worried about losing her (divorce), but she isn't worried about losing you. She is in the position of power here.
With sympathy,
Kevin T.
What damage are you worried you will cause to the marriage?
Right now it seems like you wanted romantic exclusivity. Well, she also loves her GF now. You do not want to break up with wife. You do not want wife and GF to break up either. So now you want to become ok with sharing her love then.
Is that true?
I cannot tell if you are resigned or hopeful or what.
So I think some of this is going to have to come from working on a therapist who can speak with you in real life. And help you better sort. And if your current one is not well versed in poly or non-monogamy issues, you might have have to change to one that IS.
So I'd start there.
This article has some links that may aid you.
The Poly Professional Directory is here.
Right now it seems like you wanted romantic exclusivity. Well, she also loves her GF now. You do not want to break up with wife. You do not want wife and GF to break up either. So now you want to become ok with sharing her love then.
Is that true?
I cannot tell if you are resigned or hopeful or what.
So I think some of this is going to have to come from working on a therapist who can speak with you in real life. And help you better sort. And if your current one is not well versed in poly or non-monogamy issues, you might have have to change to one that IS.
So I'd start there.
This article has some links that may aid you.
The Poly Professional Directory is here.
Hi Kevin
My wife still has given me the authority to end her relationship with her partner at any time, but I know this would hurt her very much. I'm hoping that I can wrap my head around the whole situation and learn to be ok, I don't know if I can, but I'm willing to try.
I think that is very generous of you, you are willing to forgo veto power which would probably lead her to resent you anyway. What you need to do now is figure out how to be okay with her having romantic feelings (being in love) with her new partner. Yes she agreed to not have those feelings, but she has them now and it's not like she can erase them. I guess the thing to ask yourself here, is, does more love for the new partner mean less love for you? Is it like a pie where more pieces for someone else means less pieces for you? or is it like a flame, the fire can spread without reducing the original fire. Think carefully about which model you want to work from.