Struggling with partner new to poly

[Veiledvortex]

I think that's a fine arrangement, but she does not. I brought up that before but she does not want other people in our home. She has some issues with just friends coming over entirely non-sexually as well, if they're mine and she doesn't like them.

"Is it okay if I go on a weekend trip with Apple and their friends?" to me, is the wrong question to be asking -- it should be "I want to go on this trip" with maybe a "how do we make sure you don't feel neglected while I'm gone?"

"Is it okay if I make things officially committed with Apple?" It's not my place to say.

But my response of pushing it back on her just seems to cause frustration and stress.

I'm slowly coming to the realization that she wants control over me and wants me to have control over her...control that I don't want and I think will tank any poly (or even open) efforts. Something to unpack with the therapist I think -- it might be that I'm blinded by my past with her and I need to think about what we have objectively and evaluate if this could possibly work for us or not.

 

[ref2018]

I think that's a fine arrangement, but she does not. I brought up that before but she does not want other people in our home. She has some issues with just friends coming over entirely non-sexually as well, if they're mine and she doesn't like them.

"Is it okay if I go on a weekend trip with Apple and their friends?" to me, is the wrong question to be asking -- it should be "I want to go on this trip" with maybe a "how do we make sure you don't feel neglected while I'm gone?"

"Is it okay if I make things officially committed with Apple?" It's not my place to say.

But my response of pushing it back on her just seems to cause frustration and stress.

I'm slowly coming to the realization that she wants control over me and wants me to have control over her...control that I don't want and I think will tank any poly (or even open) efforts. Something to unpack with the therapist I think -- it might be that I'm blinded by my past with her and I need to think about what we have objectively and evaluate if this could possibly work for us or not.

There's this article called "The most skipped step something-something" that gets into the importance of deconstructing codependency and the ownership model of relationships. It's linked to all over this forum. GalaGirl probably has it bookmarked. I don't see it mentioned in this thread yet.

 

[Evie]

The Most Skipped Step When Opening a Relationship

You’ve had hundreds of hours of discussions on what your open relationship will look like? Check!

medium.com

Unfortunately you do need a Medium account to read it these days. In short...both people need to get a life separate of each other *before* diving headfirst into polyamory. It's not a team sport.

 

[GalaGirl]

I think that's a fine arrangement, but she does not. I brought up that before but she does not want other people in our home.

But Apple coming over here to help with the party food prep is magically okay? And you, Cherry, and Apple all sleeping in the same bed is somehow magically okay?

I'm not being mean, but it sounds like she thinks odd stuff sometimes. Says one thing, does another. Wants this for HER, but YOU have to be doing something else.

She has some issues with just friends coming over entirely non-sexually as well, if they're mine and she doesn't like them.

It's okay for you to have some shared friends, some friends that are just yours, and some friends that are just hers.

If she doesn't like this batch, you and she can make roomie agreements so she's gone when you host these friends here. Or she says hi, but hangs out in other areas. She doesn't have to socialize with them.

Same thing if it is her friends you don't care for. You can be out, or in the home elsewhere. You don't have to join in their activities.

"Is it okay if I go on a weekend trip with Apple and their friends?" to me, is the wrong question to be asking -- it should be "I want to go on this trip" with maybe a "how do we make sure you don't feel neglected while I'm gone?"

"Is it okay if I make things officially committed with Apple?" It's not my place to say.

Again, not being mean. But if she's not especially great her communication skills, could you just make YOUR life easier and ignore her fumblings and just get to the bottom line, skip all the "feelings stuff" til you get to a counseling appointment?

• Yes, go on your trip. I can entertain myself.
• Yes, be "official" with Apple whenever you two feel that's best.

And OVER TIME refine the talk? Why add a bonus load right now to YOUR stress?

Or if you prefer to prioritize the HOW she talks, the metacommunication? Keep correcting, and ignore her fusspot.

• I prefer you say, "I want to go on a trip this weekend" and OWN it, rather than framing it like "I give you permission.
• I prefer you say "Apple and I are official now" and deal with your own relationships, rather than framing it like, "I give you permission."

Polite and boring. Lather, rinse, repeat.

You are going to have to ignore/postpone SOMETHING for now in order to lighten YOUR load until you get to counseling and get professional help with it. Pick what you want to ignore/postpone, because if you could solve it yourselves, you would have already. And going round in circles is pointless and exhausting.

But my response of pushing it back on her just seems to cause frustration and stress.

There's the subsequent fuss. But is it a problem for you? Is her feeling some frustration and stress something you are responsible for fixing? Or is she supposed to deal with her emotional management herself?

I think it's totally ok if I choose to "pass" when people ask me unreasonable or irrational things. If they feel grumpy about my answer, that's on them to deal with.

I'm slowly coming to the realization that she wants control over me and wants me to have control over her... control that I don't want and I think will tank any poly (or even open) efforts.

Like she wants to foster codependency? That's not healthy if that what she's after.

In case you need it...

www.coda.org

Something to unpack with the therapist I think -- it might be that I'm blinded by my past with her and I need to think about what we have objectively and evaluate if this could possibly work for us or not.

Yes. Step back and evaluate if this is even a healthy relationship to begin with. And then evaluate AGAIN to see if it's healthy enough for poly, all parties are willing, all parties have the abilities and skills.

Maybe this tool helps some.

https://rhntc.org/sites/default/files/resources/rhntc_hlthy_rlshp_wheel_spectrum_10-13-2022.pdf

Galagirl

 

[GalaGirl]

There's two...

The Most Skipped Step When Opening a Relationship​

The Most Skipped Step When Opening a Relationship

You’ve had hundreds of hours of discussions on what your open relationship will look like? Check!

medium.com

​

The Other Skipped Step in Opening Up​

The Other Skipped Step in Opening Up — MAKING POLYAMORY WORK

Transcript Why is it that some monogamous couples who open up their relationship end up blowing everything apart while others don't are the people who make it work just better. People immune to jealousy at one, with the abundance of love while the people who end up bitter and broken, just aren't

www.makingpolyamorywork.com

HTH!
GG

 

[Veiledvortex]

Re. the skipped steps -- I spent the last year or so encouraging her to find her own activities and her own friend groups. We currently have about 4 nights per week where we're doing different things, with different people. I know most of her friends on a "I've said hi to them once or twice" basis, and she's the same with mine, though she forms deeper friendships than I do. (Mine are activity based and most conversation sticks to the activity, while hers are more "hang out and chat about whatever")

Re. the bed thing -- ignore it. My boundaries there are weird. She was not inviting Apple to our bed, I said that I wouldn't care even if she did, as long as the purpose was for sleeping and everyone was okay with me being in the bed. She wanted to invite Apple to spend the night with her on the couch (since we had guests).

But Apple coming over here to help with the party food prep is magically ok?

Sure, it's fine with her as long as it's people she likes and wants to spend time with. (Note: I don't think this is right, but that's the logic)

This issue has been resolved, however. She's not happy with me having people over that she does not want to spend time with, whether or not she's home, but that's not going to stop me. It's a her problem that she needs to resolve on her own, because it's kind of insane otherwise.

And OVER TIME refine the talk? Why add bonus load right now to YOUR stress?

Or if you prefer to prioritize the HOW she talks, the metacommunication? Keep correcting. And then ignore her fusspot.

• I prefer you say "I want to go on a trip this weekend" and OWN it rather than framing it like I give you permission
• I prefer you say "Apple and I are official now" and deal with your own relationships. Rather than framing it like I give you permission.

This is exactly what I did and what caused stress and frustration for her. I think I'll eventually get through to her.

One thing I thought was kind of weird was that (she said that) Apple said "need to clear it with Vortex before we can be official", so I'm not sure if the idea that she needs permission comes from Apple or herself. I'm also not sure why Apple would think to ask me anything related to their relationship status.

There's the subsequent fuss. But is it a problem for you? Is her feeling some frustration and stress something you are responsible for fixing? Or is she supposed to deal with her emotional management herself?

I think it's totally ok if I choose to "pass" when people ask me unreasonable or irrational things. If they feel grumpy about my answer? That's on them to deal with.



Like she wants to foster codependency? That's not healthy if that what she's after.

Yeah, I don't think it should be on me, but her being stressed means that she shuts the conversation down before we've resolved anything and it also means she probably needs a couple hours of alone time to recover.

In case you need it...

www.coda.org


Yes. Step back and evaluate if this is even a healthy relationship to begin with.

And then evaluate AGAIN to see if it's healthy enough for poly, all parties are willing, all parties have the abiltiies and skills.

Maybe this tool helps some.

https://rhntc.org/sites/default/files/resources/rhntc_hlthy_rlshp_wheel_spectrum_10-13-2022.pdf

Galagirl

Thanks, I'll look at that.

 

[Magdlyn]

Re. the skipped steps -- I spent the last year or so encouraging her to find her own activities and her own friend groups. We currently have about 4 nights per week where we're doing different things, with different people. I know most of her friends on a "I've said hi to them once or twice" basis, and she's the same with mine, though she forms deeper friendships than I do. (Mine are activity based and most conversation sticks to the activity, while hers are more "hang out and chat about whatever")

And that's perfectly fine. We need friends for certain reasons. We don't have to like our friends the same way, or do the same things with them. That's kind of the point of having friends.

Re. the bed thing -- ignore it. My boundaries there are weird. She was not inviting Apple to our bed. I said that I wouldn't care even if she did, as long as the purpose was for sleeping, and everyone was okay with me being in the bed. She wanted to invite Apple to spend the night with her on the couch (since we had guests).

Maybe you've spent a lot of time sleeping next to platonic friends? And Apple is/has been an actual friend of yours for a while, so you thought it would be fine to share a bed platonically with her, even if her sexual partner, your wife, was now in the mix?

Sure, it's fine with her as long as it's people she likes and wants to spend time with. (Note: I don't think this is right, but that's the logic)

This issue has been resolved, however. She's not happy with me having people over that she does not want to spend time with, whether or not she's home, but that's not going to stop me. It's a her problem that she needs to resolve on her own, because it's kind of insane otherwise.

Good step! It sounds like your house is big enough to have space for you and your friends in one area, and for Cherry to be elsewhere in the house, and undisturbed.

(Btw, it sounds like you're the breadwinner and this is YOUR house, so...)

One thing I thought was kind of weird was that (Cherry said that) Apple said "need to clear it with Vortex before we can be official", so I'm not sure if the idea that Cherry needs permission comes from Apple, or from Cherry herself. I'm also not sure why Apple would think to ask me anything related to their relationship status.

I'm also not sure why Cherry needed to tell you what Apple thought and said about this issue.

It sounds like Cherry needs practice in being more discreet about what she shares about each partner with the other. All you really need to know is, has she been using safer sex. I would add, it's polite to properly schedule dates so no one feels like their needs aren't important. Otherwise, Cherry could keep the relationships separate, and let each one evolve as it will.

Yeah, I don't think it should be on me, but her being stressed means that she shuts the conversation down before we've resolved anything, and it also means she probably needs a couple hours of alone time to recover.

If you're trying to talk about heavy subjects for hours on end, with no breaks for water, tea, coffee, food, rest, sleep, bathroom, a walk in the fresh air, time with a hobby, time to finish a work project, do housework, or homework, or whatever, that's not actually good. If Cherry gets emotionally flooded, she should tell you she's done talking and walk away. (And you should do this too.) This was a lesson it took me a while to learn with my ex husband. I used to be persistent, like, "Let's get this solved this now!" Or, "Never go to bed mad." Neither of these ideas are practical or healthy, actually.

No one should be having marathon and emotionally-fraught discussions about tough topics. You end up saying things you don't mean because you're upset and exhausted. It's best to walk away and wait til another day, or at least a couple hours. It doesn't mean sweep the topic under the rug, though.

There's a reason psychology therapy sessions only last 50 minutes. You do the work, you take a break and let it simmer in your mind. You come back to it with a clearer head.

 

[Veiledvortex]

And that's perfectly fine. We need friends for certain reasons. We don't have to like our friends the same way, or do the same things with them. That's kind of the point of having friends.

Maybe you've spent a lot of time sleeping next to platonic friends? And Apple is/has been an actual friend of yours for a while, so you thought it would be fine to share a bed platonically with her, even if her sexual partner, your wife, was now in the mix?

That is true -- I used to do shared leases on places in a vacation area, where you get 15-20 people together to rent a place for the season and share rooms as needed (and beds if they were king size). I wouldn't consider Apple a friend, but I would consider them "not a stranger".

Good step! It sounds like your house is big enough to have space for you and your friends in one area, and for Cherry to be elsewhere in the house, and undisturbed.

(Btw, it sounds like you're the breadwinner and this is YOUR house, so...)

Yes on both counts. I want it to feel like a home to her as well, but at the end of the day I paid for the house and all bills related to it (furniture, improvements, etc)

I'm also not sure why Cherry needed to tell you what Apple thought and said about this issue.

It sounds like Cherry needs practice in being more discreet about what she shares about each partner with the other. All you really need to know is, has she been using safer sex. I would add, it's polite to properly schedule dates so no one feels like their needs aren't important. Otherwise, Cherry could keep the relationships separate, and let each one evolve as it will.

Scheduling is something we could do better. Most of the time we're dealing with last minute scheduling of our time together, because we live together.

If you're trying to talk about heavy subjects for hours on end, with no breaks for water, tea, coffee, food, rest, sleep, bathroom, a walk in the fresh air, time with a hobby, time to finish a work project, do housework, or homework, or whatever, that's not actually good. If Cherry gets emotionally flooded, she should tell you she's done talking and walk away. (And you should do this too.)

I haven't gotten emotionally flooded yet, but Cherry has and does exactly that. And yeah, I feel you on this, it's a tough to learn how to walk away for a bit and come back later. My mind tends to latch on until I've worked through the problem.

 

[Veiledvortex]

Small update: the hosting-partners problem is due to fear — Cherry is afraid that if she’s triggered by something (say, me having sex with someone else) she will have to figure out how to live with a location based trigger. It’s easier for her to deal with if it happens somewhere else.

 

[Evie]

That's a pretty fair boundary tbh

 

[Veiledvortex]

I think it’s fair but not what I want long term. We have a house big enough to dedicate two rooms to each of us and still have entertaining space and our shared master bedroom.

I don’t think I can accept never being able to host a partner in any bedroom…even if she’s not home or away.

That said, I’m fairly hopeful that boundary will change as comfort levels increase, and I can accept it in the short and medium term.

 

[Evie]

It's one I would expect to see movement on in the future, yes.

 

[Veiledvortex]

Second update: she’s being a poor hinge because she’s being a poor partner. For various reasons she does not want to date me right now and would prefer that we be almost ‘roommates with benefits’.

But she does want to actually date me again in the future, once she works through some emotional stuff on her side(eventually, she does not want to set a time limit) so she’s setting rules and boundaries in order to keep that option ‘safe’ for herself (no sex in the house, take it slow finding someone, etc). And wants me to remain invested in her. :/

 

[ref2018]

Second update: she’s being a poor hinge because she’s being a poor partner. For various reasons she does not want to date me right now and would prefer that we be almost ‘roommates with benefits’.

What do you mean "almost"? Like roommates with benefits, but without the benefits? That's just plain "roommates."

But she does want to actually date me again in the future, once she works through some emotional stuff on her side(eventually, she does not want to set a time limit) so she’s setting rules and boundaries in order to keep that option ‘safe’ for herself (no sex in the house, take it slow finding someone, etc). And wants me to remain invested in her. :/

Um okay, so she's stringing you along for security reasons while she looks for a new relationship. Meanwhile, you can't have your own guests in the house unless they're her guests too because of some psychobabble jibber-jabber about "location-based triggers." Uh-huh. Yup.

 

[Veiledvortex]

Yeah.

What do you mean "almost"? Like roommates with benefits, but without the benefits? That's just plain "roommates."

No, she wants to sleep in the same bed and have sex rarely(1x or 2x/mo), as well as have a say in my life and plan a future together…but does not want me to initiate any form of intimacy (sexual or not) with her and does not want to put in effort to go on dates with me.

Um okay, so she's stringing you along for security reasons while she looks for a new relationship. Meanwhile, you can't have your own guests in the house unless they're her guests too because of some psychobabble jibber-jabber about "location-based triggers." Uh-huh. Yup.

She’s not stringing me along while looking for a new relationship. She has a new relationship and wants me to remain a secure place for her while she puts her energy elsewhere. She has said that she will come back around to wanting to date me at some point, but being used as a rock like this doesn’t feel good.

If we weren’t so entangled I’d have been gone once I heard that.

Edit: entangled and we have quite a bit of history together. I’d hate to throw it all away for what could be a couple week problem. My decision is to give her a month (and not tell her the timeframe) and then see where we’re at. And in the mean time push back on some of the limits she’s setting on me that make it effectively impossible for me to date.

 

[GalaGirl]

I hope you feel better for airing all that out. FWIW, these are the things that stuck out to me.

One thing I thought was kind of weird was that (she said that) Apple said "need to clear it with Vortex before we can be official", so I'm not sure if the idea that Cherry needs permission comes from Apple or Cherry. I'm also not sure why Apple would think to ask me anything related to their relationship status.

You could tell Cherry you have no interest in Apple talk. You didn't need to know all that. For YOU all that is skippable. You have enough on your plate without adding that.

Yeah, I don't think it should be on me, but her being stressed means that she shuts the conversation down before we've resolved anything and it also means she probably needs a couple hours of alone time to recover.

Could schedule talking another time, then. And if she keeps skipping the talks, you make decisions WITHOUT her input. The train can leave the station without this particular passenger being on board. You don't have to live your life forever on hold.

Second update: she’s being a poor hinge because she’s being a poor partner. For various reasons she does not want to date me right now and would prefer that we be almost ‘roommates with benefits’.

Okay, she was honest. Is that something YOU want to be, roomies with benefits? Or would you rather just be roomies? Or not even roomies?

But she does want to actually date me again in the future, once she works through some emotional stuff on her side

Do you want to live with her while she's doing this processing?

Would you still want to date her in future or has going through all this LIKE THIS killed any desire for you?

Just because she wants to date you again in future doesn't mean future you will agree or still want that any more.

And wants me to remain invested in her. :/

Okay, she can want things. You might want other things, though. Investing more when you get little return on your investment... there's a point where people just STOP investing. Are you at or nearing your stopping point?

I see you writing a lot about what she wants. What do YOU prefer?

No, she wants to sleep in the same bed and have sex rarely(1x or 2x/mo), as well as have a say in my life and plan a future together…but does not want me to initiate any form of intimacy (sexual or not) with her and does not want to put in effort to go on dates with me.

That's the current deal on the table. Is this a deal you actually want for yourself? Is this a relationship model you'd be joyful to participate in?

In your shoes, I'd ask her to move out to one of the other bedrooms. And be "plain" roomies with NO sex. And the future you two are planning together is small -- like a month at a time, until she gets her own flat once she's done with school. Or she can move in with the new partner. Or you can give her notice that you want her moved out by X date.

And then, you get on with dating who you want, seeing them outside of the house for now. Once she moves out, see them how you want at your place.

If we weren’t so entangled I’d have been gone once I heard that.

This is where you get to start the work of detangling so you can get done later then.

Edit: entangled, and we have quite a bit of history together. I’d hate to throw it all away for what could be a couple week problem.

The relationship and its history has been had up to that point. It's not "thrown away." Nobody can take your memories of it. But that was a relationship with "old her."

This relationship with "new her" is IS a problem, and it's been going on for several weeks. She wants to date the new person and take up space in your bed. I think, at minimum, you could say NO to sharing a bedroom right now, and ask her to move to one of the other bedrooms. Be roomies, but don't share sex. It's low frequency -- I don't think you'd miss it, and it creates more clear-cut personal boundaries.

This limping along thing, or pity sex, or whatever it is she's offering... it is WEIRD. And you don't have to accept weird offers.

My decision is to give her a month (and not tell her the timeframe) and then see where we’re at. And in the meantime, push back on some of the limits she’s setting on me that make it effectively impossible for me to date.

GOOD. Put your foot down on these shenanigans/double standards/whatever you want to call the weirdness, by setting a timeframe. In a month, if things are still weird, you'll have some decisions to make.

Just because she wants you to do X doesn't mean you have to AGREE.

Galagirl

 

[ref2018]

Yeah.

No, she wants to sleep in the same bed and have sex rarely(1x or 2x/mo), as well as have a say in my life and plan a future together…but does not want me to initiate any form of intimacy (sexual or not) with her and does not want to put in effort to go on dates with me.


She’s not stringing me along while looking for a new relationship. She has a new relationship and wants me to remain a secure place for her while she puts her energy elsewhere. She has said that she will come back around to wanting to date me at some point, but being used as a rock like this doesn’t feel good.

I'm sorry, I must have confused some of this with something I read in another thread. Still sounds like she wants you there as a place to fall back on if the new one doesn't work out. She wants a say in your life but you don't get a say in hers.

If we weren’t so entangled I’d have been gone once I heard that.

My decision is to give her a month (and not tell her the timeframe) and then see where we’re at. And in the mean time push back on some of the limits she’s setting on me that make it effectively impossible for me to date.

That's good to hear.

 

[Bobbi]

No, she wants to sleep in the same bed and have sex rarely(1x or 2x/mo), as well as have a say in my life and plan a future together…but does not want me to initiate any form of intimacy (sexual or not) with her and does not want to put in effort to go on dates with me.

She's done and stringing you along so she doesn't feel guilty or so she can keep using you for security (financial, housing, etc.)

She’s not stringing me along while looking for a new relationship. She has a new relationship and wants me to remain a secure place for her while she puts her energy elsewhere. She has said that she will come back around to wanting to date me at some point, but being used as a rock like this doesn’t feel good.

She will NEVER want to date you again unless she has no other options. She cannot work in a relationship with you without putting in the actual work. Even if she does come around in a year or more, you'll be done with her. It's over. If she wants to be poly then be poly. Have fun, date and get your own rooms on opposite sides of the house and host. If she doesn't like it then SHE can do the work needed or move out. She doesn't get to control you or your dating life since you can't control hers. She cannot have her cake and eat it too. Things need to be equitable in your home if you are to live together.

My decision is to give her a month (and not tell her the timeframe) and then see where we’re at. And in the mean time push back on some of the limits she’s setting on me that make it effectively impossible for me to date.

Smart to have a time frame that's not too long...you see the light. You could start disentangling with her now. That is never a bad idea even in monogamous relationships. It's healthy and if you stay together it will be better for your relationship.

 

[Veiledvortex]

Could schedule talking another time, then. And if she keeps skipping the talks, you make decisions WITHOUT her input. The train can leave the station without this particular passenger being on board. You don't have to live your life forever on hold.

She doesn't want it scheduled because it increases anxiety -- she wants to be the one to bring it up on her own time, when she feels ready. To her credit, she does actually bring things up again, so I won't be waiting forever or have it go unresolved. But I don't really work that way myself, and it's hard for me to temporarily let go without a "and we're going to deal with it next Tuesday" type schedule/structure.

When I do just make a decision it always seems to be the wrong one. Yes, I know, easy to say "you had your chance and didn't take it", but it's hard when I then have to say "and now you have to live with the wrong color deck for the next 15 years because we don't have the budget to redo it"

Okay, she was honest. Is that something YOU want to be, roomies with benefits? Or would you rather just be roomies? Or not even roomies?
Do you want to live with her while she's doing this processing?

Would you still want to date her in future or has going through all this LIKE THIS killed any desire for you?

That's what I'm worried about. My desire isn't dead yet, but it's definitely on life-support. If I let it die I won't be able to revive it, so I'm trying to keep it alive in the midst of "don't care" from her...waiting/hoping for that to turn around.

Just because she wants to date you again in future doesn't mean future you will agree or still want that any more.

Okay, she can want things. You might want other things, though. Investing more when you get little return on your investment... there's a point where people just STOP investing. Are you at or nearing your stopping point?

I'm getting close to my breaking point. I can tolerate the current situation for a little while longer, since she's making some efforts (the "pity sex" or trying to be intimate in other ways is her making an effort, she's hoping to increase the amount she's able to offer as time goes on), but I don't have infinite patience.

I see you writing a lot about what she wants. What do YOU prefer?



That's the current deal on the table. Is this a deal you actually want for yourself? Is this a relationship model you'd be joyful to participate in?

In your shoes, I'd ask her to move out to one of the other bedrooms. And be "plain" roomies with NO sex. And the future you two are planning together is small -- like a month at a time, until she gets her own flat once she's done with school. Or she can move in with the new partner. Or you can give her notice that you want her moved out by X date.

Not quite so easy, since we are married -- can ask her to move into a different room, but I can not easily kick her out without also getting divorced.

The relationship and its history has been had up to that point. It's not "thrown away." Nobody can take your memories of it. But that was a relationship with "old her."

Yes, I agree, but what would get thrown away is the trust and comfort we have built up with each other. I feel like I owe it to our history and status to make every attempt I can to make things work out before throwing in the towel. I realize that this means I'll probably end up hanging on to the relationship past it's sell-by date, but I would not have gotten married if I was going to give up and walk away because things were tough for a couple weeks. (Absolutely will walk if there's clear abuse or if the negative situation persists, however)

You could start disentangling with her now. That is never a bad idea even in monogamous relationships. It's healthy and if you stay together it will be better for your relationship.

Entangled not enmeshed. We're financially and legally entangled and, if things were going well, I don't think that would be a bad thing. Specifically I mean, we're living together, we're married, we have (had?) some shared goals for the future, and so forth. We're not each other's lives -- we each have our own social events and friends, we each spend our free time in different ways, (this one is kind of murky if it's enmeshed or entangled) since she's in school and I'd rather she focus on learning instead of getting a garbage job she hates, I'm providing her with a small budget so she can hang out with friends and such in addition to covering all normal living expenses between us.

 

[GalaGirl]

Unless she is going to do something about her anxiety management, I think you eventually reach a point where you just have to put your foot down and decide.

No, her credit, she does actually bring things up again, so I won't be waiting forever or have it go unresolved. But I don't really work that way myself, and it's hard for me to temporarily let go without a "and we're going to deal with it next Tuesday" type schedule/structure.

What prevents you from setting your own timeframe? "Well, if I don't hear from you on scheduling this talk in a month, then I'm checking in to schedule it."

A month is PLENTY of time. And you get to know the next check-in, if even to schedule a talk, and not the talk itself.

When I do just make a decision it always seems to be the wrong one. Yes, I know, easy to say "you had your chance and didn't take it", but it's hard when I then have to say "and now you have to live with the wrong color deck for the next 15 years because we don't have the budget to redo it."

The other choices are do not do the deck repair, redo it the same color it is already, or you pick a color and she lives with it. Giving her a reasonable timeframe to give her input on the deck color is fine, but you can't have house repairs/redos pending forever either. I see it's hard for you to be decisive, but someone around there has to be.

Not quite so easy, since we are married -- can ask her to move into a different room, but I can not easily kick her out without also getting divorced.

Understandable. Divorce is not to be undertaken lightly, which is why I suggested separate rooms.

But at the same time, what kind of marriage would this even be? This thing: "She wants to sleep in the same bed and have sex rarely (1x or 2x/mo), as well as have a say in my life and plan a future together, but does not want me to initiate any form of intimacy (sexual or not) with her and does not want to put in an effort to go on dates with me." Is that your idea of a fulfilling marriage?

There can be a limit to your grace and a limit to your tolerance.

I absolutely will walk if there's clear abuse or if the negative situation persists, however.

Glad you have defined your dealbreaker line to yourself.

Galagirl