The Jealosy Diary

Arc

Member
I get you on the porousness. You feel insecure, and you aren't sure where the boundaries lie anymore. Even though your wife claims this guy is a friend, the constant texting tells me otherwise.
It is good to hear this from someone else; I don't think it's too out-there for me to think this also. Can you tell me what you think the constant texting indicates?
But my point is, you want/need reassurance, in the midst of the changes. Wife is in NRE, she's focused on new guy to the detriment of almost everything else in her life right now. It's a rush of excitement, like a drug, and it can frankly, make people act like assholes. We've all had friends who fall in love and completely get in that bubble, and stop contacting friends. Then, after the NRE wears off, and they infatuated person tries to contact friends again, the friends have felt neglected so much, they may no longer be there to continue the friendship. This is similar.
This is kind of what I'm afraid of if we go down the poly-path. I may have overstated things about the current situation - I think you could say she is at 20% NRE with this guy... but I can see it hitting 100% with the right guy, situation, sex. And frankly, I'm not too excited about living with that day-to-day.
That is why it helps you to try and rein her in just a bit, show her your reality. "Hey, I'm still here!" Talk to her about setting up casual at-home "date nights" (because of Covid), or plan walks with her. You'd like to walk with her, right? You're envious of the walks she has with New Guy. One of the main efforts that must be made by a hinge in a V is to balance the care and affection for both partners. If she's giving all her good stuff to New Guy, it's not poly done well. She's taking you for granted, and if she continues this way, it will keep damaging your long established intimacy.

Read this

Yes, we're not in poly hell but I am afraid of going there, and (as I've written in a few other threads) I don't think she is aware enough of the risk of that.
 

Arc

Member
I’m not sure trying to rein in each and every action that you find offensive will achieve what you want. I do think a serious conversation of what’s at stake needs to happen. IMO the spouse who pushes for open and or poly should be doing significant prep work AND know the pitfalls of NRE / polyhell and take steps to mitigate those. I think those people have a responsibility to their spouse or marriage and by extension to their kids /family to try to limit or dampen turbulence. NOT I’m free at last and your emotions are yours to deal with and we’ll figure this out by the seat of our pants. And please don’t wreck my buzz with a lot of whining as that makes you less attractive to me.
Yes, I'm trying to let go of the little things, nitpicking - with a focus on bigger picture - how can I actually get what I want, which is a happy and content life that hopefully doesn't involve separation, or one person being perpetually resentful?
People always talk about intentions vs a specific action. As to say a specific motivation or intention was greater than the action. So was her intention of texting her BF in the bathroom out of public view so to speak being considerate or was it being covert ??? Was the intention to make sure future lover is tucked in and happy without making waves for hubby. OR is it possible she was doing what’s often suggested by bringing some of that NRE back into the sexual side with her husband fitting this into her planned sex event with him. Living the dream 1 minute talking or texting one man and a few minutes later going at it with another. I’m sure that could be a very intoxicating set of thoughts. And if you pull it off ( minus getting busted sitting on the bathtub texting bf ) everyone would be happy.
Yes, I don't really know what her intention was. See my most recent post; she's still claiming that everything is platonic (with a mild personality attraction) and says she'll tell me if that changes. So at least consciously, if she is telling the truth, I don't think she'd getting off on it, I think she's just having fun with the attention/variety of another guy, and dealing with some text-compulsion.
I’m not sure I completely understand the issue of boundaries here. Didn’t she say what difference does it make what adults do with their bodies.
Yes, she did say that, but I think she now regrets saying that, in retrospect... :confused: I think she was in the new-convert stage of reading the Ethical Slut when she made that statement.
You’re stilled tied to thinking sex or loving making with her is “ special “. It use to be exclusively or extremely special and as this process plays out you’ll discover or determine the level of compartmentalization needed to adjust to fit the new reality ....and more importantly your wife’s new definition of what is “ special “. It could be ” reclaiming “ after her being with lover or and mandatory 24-48hr no go period after said encounter. Or in this case NO texting or sexting on scheduled sex nights or maybe just 1hr pre foreplay.
Yes, you're right, I'm still tied to the "special" quality of our relationship, and still figuring out what family life/marriage means when that is no longer there.
 

Ostrich

Member
Arc,

From entry # 4 above, it sounds like you might have some insecurities, or singular insecurity. I can relate really well. My nesting partner got into a romantic/sexual relationship with a guy at the beginning of his poly exploration. The other guy is good looking, very smart and was able to relate to DAG (nesting partner) in a way in which I was unable. Even when DAG told me I was his rock and his main partner, I didn't believe it, based on DAGs behavior with his boyfriend. NRE is a bitch. My insecurity was that Bruiser (the BF) would steal DAG away from me. DAG was truthful about how he felt about me, but his relationship with Bruiser still stung. Happily enough, DAG's relationship with Bruiser has ended on a sour note. I'm an asshole for being happy about that. (No I'm not) They no longer talk, call, email, text, or video each other at all.

Anyway, on to some quotes
We actually had a good short conversation about this. She told me that there was a personal attraction but very little physical attraction. I asked her point blank to please let me know if this changes - i.e., turns into something more intimate and emotionally connected (or sexual for that matter).
Perfect! It sounds like you are on the right path in bringing up the hard conversations. DAG and I have been very open about how we feel towards friends who could be potential romantic partners. It's helped me tremendously.

One thing feels really clear - I can't see myself being at peace with my wife being in other romantic/intimate relationships until I am in some sort of romantic/intimate relationship of my own.
I can really relate to this statement. I felt left out of DAGs poly exploration. More like left behind. I had hoped we would explore it together, but in reality, it's almost impossible to do so (in my opinion). DAG and I are in different stages of our lives and obviously have different personalities. So what he wants to experience will be different than mine. Because of this, I had to process the feelings of being left behind, and have (for the most part) come to terms with those differences, and lessened the impact of that feeling of abandonment.

Full disclosure. Due to DAGs 'I do what I want' (which applies to EVERYTHING in his life, including practicing poly) policy, I've had to de-escalate my relationship with DAG. I have friend zoned (for lack of a better term) him and now consider him to be my best friend/nesting partner. The husband moniker is only applicable in a legal sense. This may be extreme, but it's worked for me. When I told DAG, he was furious. I dared him to change my mind. That hasn't happened. I will say this, it is an option, but by no means am I recommending it. Just know it can be something which can be employed in case you can't resolve some core issues in your relationship with your wife. It might be worth considering at some point in the future.

On another note, I went on two "dates" this weekend (mentioned in entry 3). Okay, they were not really dates, but they were get together's with women I like and find attractive. It would be quite a coincidence if they were poly or open, and I have no reason to think that they are, but it still feels good to hang out in that way.

That is another great development. Discover your own terms and boundaries regarding all your relationships and continue to discuss these with your wife!! I am hoping when COVID is more fully addressed, I will be able to follow up with an ex of mine and work towards a more meaningful relationship than just a friend.

I wish you the best!
 

Magdlyn

Moderator
Staff member
NRE is generally limited to 6-18 months. That can seem like a long time when you're living through it, or, more specifically, partnered with someone who is in NRE. But more experienced poly people can be in NRE with a new person and not let it negatively impact their relationship with one or more established partners. They just need to be aware of how their NRE is impacting their established partner, and make better behavior choices.

I'm not sure if the Ethical Slut goes into how to deal with NRE... maybe it does? I read it back in 1999. You could check. Even if wife read it, she may have glossed over that part.

When I was newer to poly, when I tried to Open my 20 year marriage, my ex husband's NRE for his new girlfriend was so strong. And it was shocking, since I was the bisexual partner. We'd decided to Open to let me explore my bi side. But unfortunately we fell into unicorn hunting, he fell in love with this woman who was not interested in me (she lied and said she was at first), and I was suddenly old hat. It threw me for a loop to be put on the back burner suddenly. My ex tried to reassure me, but he also did some very hurtful neglectful and insensitive things. And then he actually fell out of love with me, the more he fell in love with her. So that was NRE gone wrong, big time.

Once we finally separated (eventually divorcing) I started doing poly clean. I met my new partner right away (we are still together 12 years later) and we've done poly (and NRE) right. We've rarely had issues of feeling neglected or jealous. Poly can definitely be done in a healthy manner. Anyone will tell you it takes clear, honest, respectful communication to make it work. You each have to LISTEN to each other, and be compassionate and caring.
 

Arc

Member
Arc,

From entry # 4 above, it sounds like you might have some insecurities, or singular insecurity. I can relate really well. My nesting partner got into a romantic/sexual relationship with a guy at the beginning of his poly exploration. The other guy is good looking, very smart and was able to relate to DAG (nesting partner) in a way in which I was unable. Even when DAG told me I was his rock and his main partner, I didn't believe it, based on DAGs behavior with his boyfriend. NRE is a bitch. My insecurity was that Bruiser (the BF) would steal DAG away from me. DAG was truthful about how he felt about me, but his relationship with Bruiser still stung. Happily enough, DAG's relationship with Bruiser has ended on a sour note. I'm an asshole for being happy about that. (No I'm not) They no longer talk, call, email, text, or video each other at all.
Hi Ostrich. Yes, I do definitely have some insecurities. I thought that went without saying!! :ROFLMAO: Some are my own, some are real insecurity, as in, we don't know what will happen.

I am not currently worried that she will actually be stolen away, as in, leave me for someone else. I don't think that's her style. But I do fear she might "leave" me, emotionally, dive into the NRE and maybe want to take the poly arrangement to a deeper level than just FWB.

The current dude is apparently not too good looking and has still wooed her (platonically, so far) with his personality. What happens when the next guy has looks and charm? Then I can see things going in the direction you described - she says I'm her rock, etc. but that just doesn't play out in practice.
Anyway, on to some quotes

Perfect! It sounds like you are on the right path in bringing up the hard conversations. DAG and I have been very open about how we feel towards friends who could be potential romantic partners. It's helped me tremendously.
Thanks! We're making some progress. I think this is a good, small step to just be talking about people in our lives that we're attracted to. Frankly, I'd be okay if that were the extent of it, but she would not. She was actually very pleased to hear that I was attracted to one of my friends. I think she felt like it kind of evened things out. Of course, I'm not texting with her 20 times a day, and we're not flirting, so there is a difference.
I can really relate to this statement. I felt left out of DAGs poly exploration. More like left behind. I had hoped we would explore it together, but in reality, it's almost impossible to do so (in my opinion). DAG and I are in different stages of our lives and obviously have different personalities. So what he wants to experience will be different than mine. Because of this, I had to process the feelings of being left behind, and have (for the most part) come to terms with those differences, and lessened the impact of that feeling of abandonment.
Yeah, frankly I don't think I could handle that - if she were out dating/having sex and I were not. I mean, I could try to process feelings of being left behind, but in the end, I don't want to be in that type of marriage. It would be too much of a shift and I'd feel like shit all the time. Just my prediction.
Full disclosure. Due to DAGs 'I do what I want' (which applies to EVERYTHING in his life, including practicing poly) policy, I've had to de-escalate my relationship with DAG. I have friend zoned (for lack of a better term) him and now consider him to be my best friend/nesting partner. The husband moniker is only applicable in a legal sense. This may be extreme, but it's worked for me. When I told DAG, he was furious. I dared him to change my mind. That hasn't happened. I will say this, it is an option, but by no means am I recommending it. Just know it can be something which can be employed in case you can't resolve some core issues in your relationship with your wife. It might be worth considering at some point in the future.
Very interesting. Just to get a sense of what that looks like - do you sleep in separate beds/rooms? Is friend-zoning your spouse better than separating? (I assume so, since you did it). I have actually thought about that as a possible outcome. It is hard to imagine - such a huge shift from our past life/relationship. But it does feel kind of empowering to know that I can say, "If this is what you want to do, I'll stick with you as a friend and a co-parent, but our sex-lives will be separate. You can be you. Take it or leave it."
That is another great development. Discover your own terms and boundaries regarding all your relationships and continue to discuss these with your wife!! I am hoping when COVID is more fully addressed, I will be able to follow up with an ex of mine and work towards a more meaningful relationship than just a friend.

I wish you the best!
Thanks! I hope that relationship works out for you too.
 

Arc

Member
NRE is generally limited to 6-18 months. That can seem like a long time when you're living through it, or, more specifically, partnered with someone who is in NRE. But more experienced poly people can be in NRE with a new person and not let it negatively impact their relationship with one or more established partners. They just need to be aware of how their NRE is impacting their established partner, and make better behavior choices.
Yeah, my wife is not and experienced poly person so that would probably be a rough first 6 months. Ugh, 6-18 months seems like way too much of my life; especially because there's no reason there won't be a new round of NRE when the old one runs out. I am not sure how much I want to be in NRE for that long! Here's a thought I just had - it seems like some poly folk are into poly because of the long-term relationships aspect of it; but others might be into it for the NRE experience. I don't mean to divide people in two distinct groups, but I can see how people could lean one way or the other.
I'm not sure if the Ethical Slut goes into how to deal with NRE... maybe it does? I read it back in 1999. You could check. Even if wife read it, she may have glossed over that part.
The part called "Sluts in Love" may cover it - there's a chapter on "The ebb and flow of relationships", but I don't have it on hand. I'm not sure she got that far. When I talked with her a while back about NRE, she said, "But NRE is a good thing!" That's about as far as it went. (That was when she was deep in NRE period with Poly, and every concern I had was waived away by, "We'll figure it out. Our relationship is strong.") I am going to insist she read "Opening Up" if she wants to proceed.
When I was newer to poly, when I tried to Open my 20 year marriage, my ex husband's NRE for his new girlfriend was so strong. And it was shocking, since I was the bisexual partner. We'd decided to Open to let me explore my bi side. But unfortunately we fell into unicorn hunting, he fell in love with this woman who was not interested in me (she lied and said she was at first), and I was suddenly old hat. It threw me for a loop to be put on the back burner suddenly. My ex tried to reassure me, but he also did some very hurtful neglectful and insensitive things. And then he actually fell out of love with me, the more he fell in love with her. So that was NRE gone wrong, big time.
Yeah, I can see that happening. And frankly, I can see it happen to me if I met the right person. That's one thing I'm a bit scared about - which may sound weird because it seems like a good thing to find someone you love/fit with more. But I'm not so sure...
Once we finally separated (eventually divorcing) I started doing poly clean. I met my new partner right away (we are still together 12 years later) and we've done poly (and NRE) right. We've rarely had issues of feeling neglected or jealous. Poly can definitely be done in a healthy manner. Anyone will tell you it takes clear, honest, respectful communication to make it work. You each have to LISTEN to each other, and be compassionate and caring.
Sounds like a much smoother process than opening things up, unless both people are really on the same page. It's a consistent story I hear, that divorcing and "doing poly clean" - or "doing mono clean" for that matter - has a higher probability of success. I'm glad you found a partner right away! That's a great success story.
 

Ostrich

Member
Arc,
Very interesting. Just to get a sense of what that looks like - do you sleep in separate beds/rooms? Is friend-zoning your spouse better than separating? (I assume so, since you did it). I have actually thought about that as a possible outcome. It is hard to imagine - such a huge shift from our past life/relationship. But it does feel kind of empowering to know that I can say, "If this is what you want to do, I'll stick with you as a friend and a co-parent, but our sex-lives will be separate. You can be you. Take it or leave it."

We do not sleep in separate bedrooms, but sex with DAG has been very, very limited. I stay on my side of the bed, and he stays on his. Right now, our financial situation is rather entwined, so in my opinion, it's easier to stay emotionally separated, but physically together than not. I am not financially secure enough at this point to move out of the house.

To your point about empowering, it definitely has helped me in drawing some hard lined boundaries (please note I did not say rules) and giving me some courage to stand up for myself and my feelings.
 

icesong

Moderator
Staff member
That's one thing I'm a bit scared about - which may sound weird because it seems like a good thing to find someone you love/fit with more.
"More" is such an interesting word, in this context. I know you're not poly (yet?) but to me the whole point of *being* poly is that you don't have to rank people as "more" or "less" compatible, or loved "more", fit your life "more", whatever. There's just... love.

Like, I could list a zillion factors where I'm "more" compatible in outlook or life with either Artist or Knight. If I had to pick one (and they didn't get a say in it, LOL), to have a typical mono-nesting relationship with, I honestly have NO idea how or who I'd pick. I have more to talk about with Artist... but I have shared hobbies and interests with Knight that Artist doesn't share. Knight is as much of an extrovert as I am so I can fill the house with people / parties... but Artist and I like more of the same books/movies/tv/live entertainment so we DO more together. My general laissez-faire nature towards things like cleaning and money would drive Artist crazy if we were more entangled, I think, but at the same time our physical chemistry is utterly ridiculous so being around each other more might make up for that... Knight takes care of me to a ridiculous degree but is also, like, a 12 year old at heart sometimes and I wasn't even very much a kid when I was actually 12 ... the list goes on and on and on. I can't put a "love more" or "fit more" on either of them.

I'm not trying to say it's not hard, and there's never any "I wonder" there, because there is sometimes - my blog is proof of that, though I will say it skews negative because it's where I process things. But when it's going right...
 

dingedheart

Well-known member
Yes, I'm trying to let go of the little things, nitpicking - with a focus on bigger picture - how can I actually get what I want, which is a happy and content life that hopefully doesn't involve separation, or one person being perpetually resentful?
[/QUOTE]
I think that’s the perfect question AND good goal. Let me ask you this are you he romantic type ? do you remember first date anniversaries and songs, etc. If you do I think it’s going to be harder for you. IMO you need to dump much of that and realize the old marriage is over ....the person you married isn’t the person you thought and this is a completely new game. NOT just somebody changing the rules in the middle of the game BUT a new game.

AND here’s the question that if you haven’t asked yourself a hundred time I’ll just throw it out there to make it official. Will it be worth it. Is dumping my old marriage and partial identity, is taking college level classes on all things poly, is the month and month of emotional stress and pain going to be worth it. Can and will you be able to sort of erase the old vision and replace it with blank sheet of “ yet to be determined “ And are you willing to suffer all the bumps, bruise, cuts , etc to get there ?


Yes, I don't really know what her intention was. See my most recent post; she's still claiming that everything is platonic (with a mild personality attraction) and says she'll tell me if that changes. So at least consciously, if she is telling the truth, I don't think she'd getting off on it, I think she's just having fun with the attention/variety of another guy, and dealing with some text-compulsion.
[/QUOTE ]
Have you discussed that incident and the sex date the followed at all. Perhaps days later when things had calmed down for you ?? Are you worried that if she‘s already displaying some compulsive tendencies and you’re already feeling the effects of poly Hell how crazy and or how bad will it be with a full blown romantic relationship when sex and the associated brain chemicals kick in ? Do you see this as an omen?


Yes, she did say that, but I think she now regrets saying that, in retrospect... :confused: I think she was in the new-convert stage of reading the Ethical Slut when she made that statement.
[/QUOTE]
You think she regrets saying because she changed positions or soften that belief. OR she regrets “SAYING “ it because it caused you pain and discomfort, hesitation and possibly set back her chances on opening up your marriage ?
The statement she made is actually NOT an uncommon belief or attitude within the community ESPECIALLY the RA sub set.

Yes, you're right, I'm still tied to the "special" quality of our relationship, and still figuring out what family life/marriage means when that is no longer there.
I think it moving to what feels right and or good in the moment. And with that I think to many people who have been poly bombed in a long standing marriage who bend over backwards to “ make it work “ agree to date night or scheduled sex romps feel their participation is more or less mandatory from 2 or 3 different directions. 1 from the commitment of the marriage and being a team player 2) time and attention being a zero sum game if I refuse those need will be filled elsewhere. AND 3) there is a conscious or subconscious effort to want to be picked 1st for dodge ball. So we do these dates or sex or whatever hoping to score points on all those levels. I truly think / believe if you thought your marriage and romantic life was good prior dont ink in any such things. It’s NOT up to you to prove you have a spot on the team now. IMO airs the exact opposite. She need to demonstrate she wants you on the team. And if her NRE wrecks a moment ie texting bf form bed 2 minutes before pantie drop that’s on her. Walk away. If you invite her to dinner or date out and she keep looking at her phone walk away.....leave her there just go home.
The point is I’d soft pencil these things in in the beginning. AND HONOR yourself by not doing anything that you’re not in the mood for or continuing a date while feeling you’re being pissed on. I think there’s power in saying NO. And I think too many times people in this position think that they have to agree.
 

Ostrich

Member
Arc, this is TRUTH! I want to emphasize what DH said with something else I found which hit close to home.
The point is I’d soft pencil these things in in the beginning. AND HONOR yourself by not doing anything that you’re not in the mood for or continuing a date while feeling you’re being pissed on. I think there’s power in saying NO. And I think too many times people in this position think that they have to agree.

Sexual satisfaction (and other activities) are the sole responsibility of the individual. No one else is responsible for your sexual happiness but you and you aren't responsible for anyone else's sexual happiness or happiness in general. If you aren't feeling it, then don't do it. It's her responsibility to find an alternate means to pleasure herself. Do not feel guilty that you might leave her unhappy or unsatisfied. Her unhappiness is her's to deal with. (damn I'm cold. No I'm not) When it comes down to it, it's your happiness versus hers. Guess who wins.

DAG and I haven't had sex in weeks, mainly because he's never ready. So? It's been the best weeks of sexual self pleasuring since my adolescence, and I LOVE it!
 

Magdlyn

Moderator
Staff member
Yeah, my wife is not an experienced poly person so that would probably be a rough first 6 months. Ugh, 6-18 months seems like way too much of my life; especially because there's no reason there won't be a new round of NRE when the old one runs out. I am not sure how much I want to be in NRE for that long! Here's a thought I just had - it seems like some poly folk are into poly because of the long-term relationships aspect of it; but others might be into it for the NRE experience. I don't mean to divide people in two distinct groups, but I can see how people could lean one way or the other.

Actually, all people, mono, poly or otherwise, are subject to the thrills of NRE! However, some/most experienced poly people learn to expect that hormonal rush, and to discount its power, knowing that, while it's fun, it's also scary and tiring, and can be very illusory about the actual value of the new partner. Not all initial compatibility leads to long-term compatibility. This lesson can take a while to learn. That's why it's best to read read read and learn about this stuff ahead of time, or in the first few months and years of trying to do poly.

Mono people get into making big decisions while in the rush of NRE. So often people meet, fall into NRE, and then move across country, move in together, even marry, buy a house, and have a kid, all before NRE wears off, only to then realize they do not actually love each other. It was all infatuation, social pressure, ticking baby time clock, the status of the ring and the big wedding and the lure of a fancy honeymoon and a new house/apartment/condo! And then they go on to live together miserably, or they split, incurring the costs of a divorce and child support/custody issues.

A benefit of poly is that you don't need to feel as compelled to take the relationship escalator to the top with any cute person that comes along, that is good in bed and good for a laugh! You can wait to ride to the top, or just get off at a lower floor altogether.
The part called "Sluts in Love" may cover it - there's a chapter on "The ebb and flow of relationships", but I don't have it on hand. I'm not sure she got that far. When I talked with her a while back about NRE, she said, "But NRE is a good thing!" That's about as far as it went. (That was when she was deep in NRE period with Poly, and every concern I had was waived away by, "We'll figure it out. Our relationship is strong.") I am going to insist she read "Opening Up" if she wants to proceed.

You both would definitely benefit from reading this book. Even if she refuses to read it, you could read bits of it to her, and discuss it. My ex h was not a book reader, so sometimes I'd resort to sitting in the bathroom while he was in the shower, and reading out loud to him lol. Captive audience.
Yeah, I can see that happening. And frankly, I can see it happen to me if I met the right person. That's one thing I'm a bit scared about - which may sound weird because it seems like a good thing to find someone you love/fit with more. But I'm not so sure...

I'd agree with what icesong said about "Love more." It's not "either/or," it's more like comedy improv: "yes, and." Sometimes your OSO won't end up as a full fledged co-primary. She/he might always be a fun FWB. You never know. My ex h came to love his new partner more than me, but he's got... emotional issues. We had a somewhat less than healthy relationship in many ways. It's a long story. Basically, he was just not really able to be poly. He didn't have the confidence or communication skills o romantic skills for it.
Sounds like a much smoother process than opening things up, unless both people are really on the same page. It's a consistent story I hear, that divorcing and "doing poly clean" - or "doing mono clean" for that matter - has a higher probability of success. I'm glad you found a partner right away! That's a great success story.
Yes, I am so so so lucky! I was totally expecting to date casually for a good 2-3 years, after a 30 year marriage. But the universe had a better idea for me. And I love her so much more than I ever loved my ex h. We just get along so much better in so many ways. Of course, our maturity levels helped. I was only 19 when I met my ex, still a baby! I was 53 when I met Pixi, and she was 31.
 

Arc

Member
"More" is such an interesting word, in this context. I know you're not poly (yet?) but to me the whole point of *being* poly is that you don't have to rank people as "more" or "less" compatible, or loved "more", fit your life "more", whatever. There's just... love.
You are right - you caught me in a traditional, non-poly, way of viewing relationship. I have not quite wrapped my head around this perspective, and maybe I never will. I love all of my kids the same, but I also love my kids more than I love other people's kids. I can't help it, and I also might want to have one partner I love the most. So my fear of loving someone "more" is basically that I would not want to be poly, but would want to be mono with that other person. Does that make sense?
 

Arc

Member
Entry 6 - First of all, I appreciate everyone's responses, even if I have not responded to them directly. I am definitely taking them in.

Secondly, I think I need to take another vacation from this direction of inquiry. I am feeling discouraged, and heading into a family ski trip where I want to be engaged and positive, at least with my kids. I am planning on prompting another round of discussions, hopefully peaceful and not too big, in January, and am also looking into finding a couples therapist. That's my plan.

My discouragement (and I'm not blaming anyone here) is that this just doesn't seem like it's going to work - seems like a lot of people think that. Oddly enough, my wife seems to be the most optimistic person I've talked to about this. Anyway, I need to see if my discouragement shifts, talk with her more seriously about this stuff again, or something. Otherwise I'm just spinning my wheels.

Thanks again for all the support - I feel overall very positive towards the Poly community based on my experience here!
 

icesong

Moderator
Staff member
You are right - you caught me in a traditional, non-poly, way of viewing relationship. I have not quite wrapped my head around this perspective, and maybe I never will. I love all of my kids the same, but I also love my kids more than I love other people's kids. I can't help it, and I also might want to have one partner I love the most. So my fear of loving someone "more" is basically that I would not want to be poly, but would want to be mono with that other person. Does that make sense?
Totally makes sense - I mean, there are people who really do believe in hierarchical poly, or who end up feeling differently about different people. (I've had casual FWB that never had the potential to turn into full fledged partners). I don't entirely understand the part where you *want* to love one person more than others, but I think I might have felt that way had you asked me ten years ago, as it was the experience I had at the time.

My discouragement (and I'm not blaming anyone here) is that this just doesn't seem like it's going to work - seems like a lot of people think that. Oddly enough, my wife seems to be the most optimistic person I've talked to about this.
Honestly if you're hearing discouragement I think it's that people here are mirroring what you're feeling back at you - it CAN work, but there's just a lot of thoughts/feelings that would have to be processed first.
Secondly, I think I need to take another vacation from this direction of inquiry. I am feeling discouraged, and heading into a family ski trip where I want to be engaged and positive, at least with my kids. I am planning on prompting another round of discussions, hopefully peaceful and not too big, in January, and am also looking into finding a couples therapist. That's my plan.
Good luck on finding one, and have fun on your trip!
 

dingedheart

Well-known member
When I was newer to poly, when I tried to Open my 20 year marriage, my ex husband's NRE for his new girlfriend was so strong. And it was shocking, since I was the bisexual partner. We'd decided to Open to let me explore my bi side. But unfortunately we fell into unicorn hunting, he fell in love with this woman who was not interested in me (she lied and said she was at first), and I was suddenly old hat. It threw me for a loop to be put on the back burner suddenly. My ex tried to reassure me, but he also did some very hurtful neglectful and insensitive things. And then he actually fell out of love with me, the more he fell in love with her. So that was NRE gone wrong, big time.
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so how much prep did you do to prepare for opening up. And how hard did you have to push ( if any ) to get him to go along with this. When ever you describe your Ex you paint a negative picture that seems like it would have been impossible for him to make a healthy transition. In hindsight do you think more prep / different prep was needed. Do you think you pushed him too hard and the resentment caused him to use the situation against you ?? ( poly as a soft exit )

Was the women/ unicorn experienced in poly or open relationships.? And after you divorced did she or they have other open relationships with others Or did they go mono. Could there have been some cow girling going on.



Once we finally separated (eventually divorcing) I started doing poly clean. I met my new partner right away (we are still together 12 years later) and we've done poly (and NRE) right. We've rarely had issues of feeling neglected or jealous. Poly can definitely be done in a healthy manner. Anyone will tell you it takes clear, honest, respectful communication to make it work. You each have to LISTEN to each other, and be compassionate and caring.
Doing it clean ?? Was pixie experienced or did you have to read to him int the shower too ?.
 

dingedheart

Well-known member
Totally makes sense - I mean, there are people who really do believe in hierarchical poly, or who end up feeling differently about different people. (I've had casual FWB that never had the potential to turn into full fledged partners). I don't entirely understand the part where you *want* to love one person more than others, but I think I might have felt that way had you asked me ten years ago, as it was the experience I had at the time.
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couldnt the “ zillion “ factors of compatibility end up dumped in the basket people call LOVE? And it’s not a matter of wanting to or deciding which person you love “ more “ it just happens that you’re more at peace and happier, etc etc etc .....when you’re with them. Contrasts and comparisons are going to be drawn. AND I’m not talking about things under the fog of NRE. Just like dating pre marriage and going through a compatibility check list the same happens is happening here. And hard as people try to PC about these things it’s going to float around in ones head particularly if there’s chemistry of several different levels.
 

Magdlyn

Moderator
Staff member
I think the quote function will be messed up, here. I'm not sure how you replied.

How much prep did you do to prepare for opening up?

Not enough. It went from fantasy to practice within 3-5 months, as I recall.

How hard did you have to push (if any) to get him to go along with this?

I didn't push at all. It was his idea. I was fine with verbally fantasizing about threeways during sex. It was his idea to try and find a unicorn. I was skeptical, but let him lead me. I was into being submissive then. We didn't describe ourselves as D/s, then, but I do tend toward being a sub (when I'm not being a Domme, lol; I'm a switch). I trusted him that we could make it work.

Whenever you describe your ex, you paint such a negative picture, that it seems like it would have been impossible for him to make a healthy transition.

However, you have read some things I have written about him that were positive. I told you there were enough positives to keep us together for over 30 years.

In hindsight, do you think more prep/different prep was needed?

Yes, sure. I read the Ethical Slut. We talked it over some, but not enough. This was 1999. Modern polyamory was in its infancy. I was picturing casual sex, or finding a FWB, at most.

Do you think you pushed him too hard and the resentment caused him to use the situation against you? (Poly as a soft exit.)

Again, I didn't "push" him. If anything, he pushed me.

Was the women/unicorn experienced in poly or open relationships?

Not per se. She was single and dating around, so there might've been points in her life where she had more than one dating partner at a time, maybe more casual bfs. She was 42, no spring chicken. She'd been married once, but just for a few years, so mostly was a bachelor her whole life.

After you divorced, did she or they have other open relationships with others, or did they go mono?

Not that I know of. She moved in with him soon after we separated. They lived together for a few years, then she got her own place nearby, then eventually she moved to an ashram an hour and a half away. He still went to see her almost every weekend until Covid hit.

Could there have been some cowgirling going on?

No. She is a nice person. I think she would have liked to continue sharing him. We had a veto agreement, and he agreed to stop dating her and just be friends, at my request. They were friends long distance, still in love, until he and I split for various other reasons.

Doing it clean? Was Pixi experienced, or did you have to read to him in the shower too?

Pixi is female. Yes, she had been poly all her adult life. She was never in an exclusive relationship.

I read many things to my ex h while he was in the shower. Mostly parenting books, sometimes other things.

Thanks for all the questions. I thought you knew all this about me already! lol
 

icesong

Moderator
Staff member
And it’s not a matter of wanting to or deciding which person you love “ more “ it just happens that you’re more at peace and happier, etc etc etc .....when you’re with them. Contrasts and comparisons are going to be drawn. AND I’m not talking about things under the fog of NRE. Just like dating pre marriage and going through a compatibility check list the same happens is happening here.
I mean that's literally what I talked about in my other post on this thread. I suppose if one was mono you'd never have to make those contrasts nor comparisons.... except for the part where "mono" people fall in love with people who are not their (legal/committed) partners all the time.
 

dingedheart

Well-known member
I didn't push at all. It was his idea. I was fine with verbally fantasizing about threeways during sex. It was his idea to try and find a unicorn. I was skeptical, but let him lead me. I was into being submissive then. We didn't describe ourselves as D/s, then, but I do tend toward being a sub (when I'm not being a Domme, lol; I'm a switch). I trusted him that we could make it work.
That what I had thought but when you wrote this I thought I was remembering it wrong. “when I tried to Open my 20 year marriage, my ex husband's NRE for his new girlfriend was so strong. And it was shocking, since I was the bisexual partner. We'd decided to Open to let me explore my bi side.”

However, you have read some things I have written about him that were positive. I told you there were enough positives to keep us together for over 30 years.
I meant negative traits or qualities that would make him a good candidate for poly. His extreme jealousy being one of them. Somewhere in this thread or one of Arc‘s other thread you listed some others I don’t have time to track that down and quote but knowing those was there any discussion or any pause giving to the outcome.
Yes, sure. I read the Ethical Slut. We talked it over some, but not enough. This was 1999. Modern polyamory was in its infancy. I was picturing casual sex, or finding a FWB, at most.
is there anything you can think of reading material wise that could / would have made a difference ? Is there anything he said he had wished he or you as a couple had did differently either upon divorce or yrs later ?

Again, I didn't "push" him. If anything, he pushed me.
this confused is explained above 🥴

who pushed for the divorce ?
Not that I know of. She moved in with him soon after we separated. They lived together for a few years, then she got her own place nearby, then eventually she moved to an ashram an hour and a half away. He still went to see her almost every weekend until Covid hit.
“ not that you know of “ do you have much interaction or communication with your Ex or does all you info come casually second hand ? So those 2 are very much still a couple. Interesting that marriage isn’t a priority anymore. I can completely understand that.
I read many things to my ex h while he was in the shower. Mostly parenting books, sometimes other things.
how long were his showers ?? What was your water /utility bills to heat that water ? What size water heater did you have 🤣.

Just a thought but if the schedule so tight he can’t read any of the self help books and has to read them in the shower or on the can maybe he doesn’t have the time to date other people.

Thanks for all the questions. I thought you knew all this about me already! lol

I thought I did ...lol
 

Magdlyn

Moderator
Staff member
dinged, I'm not going to answer any more of these questions on Arc's blog. It's not appropriate.
 
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