Wow, people, so much writing and ideas! I've read through it, hopefully I can also catch up with answering what resonates with me.
So, first, WhatHappened
I haven't been lied to. I haven't been offered something that cannot be delivered. When Idealist first approached me, he was mainly looking for long-term but occasional kink, and I was considering a short affair or fwb with him. So the relationship has become much closer then I thought it ever could be. We share time and romance, sometimes overnights, we care about each others daily worries, we are partly involved in each others social life, we help each other out, we set little goals for us.
Meta did try to make sure that I knew where I stood at times, but I know that stems from insecurity and not disrespect. Anyway, Idealist doesn't buy that, so with time I could get over (my own) mindset that I am somehow subordinate to their relationship. She's a good and generous person. I can't stand her mainly because she talks a lot, exagerates everything and never notices when the listener doesn't want to listen any more, which I find really draining.
I read some old threads you started, including http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26264 about if it is even responsible of partnered poly people to date (especially mono) single people. I found it somewhat relevant to the discussion and my own thinking.
The posts in that thread seem to put responsibility for knowing their needs and entering the relationship firmly on the single person's shoulder (while accenting the responsibility of the married person to lay out clearly what is on offer). And they are right. Though I would expect the more experienced person to double-check if the newbie is really informed.
I've struggled previously with blaming Idealist for my breakup and "seducing me". Like "He should not have made a move on me! I was partnered and inexperienced! When he saw that we struggled he shouldn't have continued to offer me affection! He was the older and experienced one, he should have foreseen the outcome!" ... no. I try not to fall back to that line of thinking. Facts are, he asked me if I was up for kink, then we talked about polyamory and half a year later he rubbed my back. Usually not exactly a way to take someone from their spouse
Would it be possible for us to take up more commitment, have a child one day perhaps? I know he isn't completely closed to the option, and I suppose Meta would freak out. I'm not going there.
I don't know if I would be ready for more commitment with a mono partner, but that's another story.
I was told upfront what is pretty obvious, that it's on me if I manage to live nearby. There is no way he would move, he has Meta, a flat, a house. It hurt: again, there is a discrepancy with the mono model, where people make decisions about their area together. It's his personal limitation, he could have it if it wasn't for poly, but it is more likely when people are in the picture. It is quite likely I will move some day, so sure as hell am I not going to prioritize him over work opportunities.
So just from this post, I think it has quite a bit of prerequisites.
Equality probably helps, 3 people making decisions, not 2+1.
3 or more sets of goals to alighn and stay alighned... But you sure as hell can set goals together.
Everyone living in the same area, or everyone being very mobile, helps immensely. I think the commitment is possible if people live nearby. It takes generousity with sharing resources though, and a lot of accomodating.
So, first, WhatHappened
I am sorry, your experience must have been terrible.I didn't mind being 'secondary.' I'm actually quite happy in my own home, having lots of time to myself. But I had a HUGE problem with disrespect and his wife making SURE I knew where I stood. I had a HUGE problem with being lied to by him, to cover for her games. I had a HUGE problem with realizing there were some ground rules in play that they weren't willing to admit to me--probably because they knew deep down it didn't sound good when spoken out loud in the light of day.
I haven't been lied to. I haven't been offered something that cannot be delivered. When Idealist first approached me, he was mainly looking for long-term but occasional kink, and I was considering a short affair or fwb with him. So the relationship has become much closer then I thought it ever could be. We share time and romance, sometimes overnights, we care about each others daily worries, we are partly involved in each others social life, we help each other out, we set little goals for us.
Meta did try to make sure that I knew where I stood at times, but I know that stems from insecurity and not disrespect. Anyway, Idealist doesn't buy that, so with time I could get over (my own) mindset that I am somehow subordinate to their relationship. She's a good and generous person. I can't stand her mainly because she talks a lot, exagerates everything and never notices when the listener doesn't want to listen any more, which I find really draining.
I read some old threads you started, including http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26264 about if it is even responsible of partnered poly people to date (especially mono) single people. I found it somewhat relevant to the discussion and my own thinking.
The posts in that thread seem to put responsibility for knowing their needs and entering the relationship firmly on the single person's shoulder (while accenting the responsibility of the married person to lay out clearly what is on offer). And they are right. Though I would expect the more experienced person to double-check if the newbie is really informed.
I've struggled previously with blaming Idealist for my breakup and "seducing me". Like "He should not have made a move on me! I was partnered and inexperienced! When he saw that we struggled he shouldn't have continued to offer me affection! He was the older and experienced one, he should have foreseen the outcome!" ... no. I try not to fall back to that line of thinking. Facts are, he asked me if I was up for kink, then we talked about polyamory and half a year later he rubbed my back. Usually not exactly a way to take someone from their spouse
I doubt he would let me under a tree, but I sure am still insecure about what help I can ask. I think he is insecure there with me too, I haven't been keen to get part of his duties. The commitment is not there.And yes, I ultimately had a problem with him telling me he was retiring to another state one day aaaaaaand.....yet telling me every man I dated wasn't good enough for me ... Did being secondary HAVE TO mean I was a single mother? I'm not 100% convinced it has to be that way.
... Yes, with poly, WITH HIM, I was a single mother, I was on my own, and that is not acceptable after two years with someone.
Would it be possible for us to take up more commitment, have a child one day perhaps? I know he isn't completely closed to the option, and I suppose Meta would freak out. I'm not going there.
I don't know if I would be ready for more commitment with a mono partner, but that's another story.
I was told upfront what is pretty obvious, that it's on me if I manage to live nearby. There is no way he would move, he has Meta, a flat, a house. It hurt: again, there is a discrepancy with the mono model, where people make decisions about their area together. It's his personal limitation, he could have it if it wasn't for poly, but it is more likely when people are in the picture. It is quite likely I will move some day, so sure as hell am I not going to prioritize him over work opportunities.
I read and reread that and I realized how ridiculous it is to plan who will be there for my old days at my age. But now, I should be choosing family. That's similar - tribal and secure. Yes, I think thats a very valid need, and very neglected.I personally believe that most of us have a need to have someone...call it tribal as you did. Most of us want to know we're not going to die alone.
Yes, that is the question.This may be one of the core questions: is it possible to be secondary and yet be building a life together?
So just from this post, I think it has quite a bit of prerequisites.
Equality probably helps, 3 people making decisions, not 2+1.
3 or more sets of goals to alighn and stay alighned... But you sure as hell can set goals together.
Everyone living in the same area, or everyone being very mobile, helps immensely. I think the commitment is possible if people live nearby. It takes generousity with sharing resources though, and a lot of accomodating.
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