The pace of the one who is struggling most

rory said:
I was wondering if the concept of "controlling one's feelings" might be better put "managing one's feelings," or "controlling one's reactions to their feelings." Just semantics (but hey, I remember you're into that :p), since I think there is a common misconception that one can control their feelings, when really all one can do is decide how they react to them and what they do. I did totally get your point, though, semantics aside. :)
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I think this is a really good point! My feelings are not something I can really control, but what I do with them is entirely voluntary. Asking someone who is polyamorous (or anyone who is in love) to stop having feelings for someone causes the reaction, "I can't!" More appropriate is to ask what someone's reaction to those feelings is going to be. For me, it was a long journey to find the balance that minimized suffering for both my husband and for me (and maybe Luke and Colin).

The journey still continues. Now my husband is saying he isn't comfortable interacting with Luke. Luke hosts an annual event that my family attends (my kids especially look forward to it) and my husband is doesn't want to go, afraid that people will figure out Luke and I have something going on, and will say something about it. I think he's also afraid Luke won't respect him as much, now that Luke has touched his wife, although if anything, I think Luke respects him more for giving me that freedom. Seeing as the kids have been promised this trip, and he doesn't want any of us spending the night. He'll end up going, because I don't want to drive back late at night. Maybe he'll feel better once he's seen that no one there knows or cares, and that Luke and I aren't going to behave any differently. This is in a couple of weeks. We'll see.

So much drama...
 
rory said:
I completely agree with you on that whole post! Though I was wondering if the concept of "controlling one's feelings" might be better put "managing one's feelings" or "controlling one's reactions to their feelings"? Just semantics (but hey, I remember you're into that :p), since I think there is a common misconception that one can control their feelings, when really all one can do is decide how they react to them and what they do. I did totally get your point, though, semantics aside. :)
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Actually it can be both, no?

You might be in a situation where you control your feelings:

- You feel an initial spark towards somebody who just seems like bad news. Rather then let it develop, you remove yourself from situations where you are around them.

Managing your feelings:

- You have a coworker that you see daily. You cannot avoid this person. Place of employment has a strict rule about not dating coworkers. Regardless, feelings develop. You then learn to manage your feelings, so as not to lose your job.

The difference is in the feelings having grounds to develop or not.
 
rory said:
... I was wondering if the concept of "controlling one's feelings" might be better put "managing one's feelings" or "controlling one's reactions to their feelings"?
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I like the sound of "managing," but "controlling" isn't always a bad thing. When driving, one needs to know how to control a car so that it doesn't kill anyone, after all.

I don't know why I am reminded of this, but I had a teacher who used to say "Emotion = Energy in motion." Sometimes we treat our emotions as if they are these strange, precious things that should be given full reign. But controlling them is an essential skill. Without it, so much damage can be done, especially for those times when the emotions we're experiencing are actually more like responses we have trained ourselves to have when we entertain certain thoughts.

When I was growing up, I learned that the only way I could get my mother's attention was to cry and become overwrought about stuff that I needed or wanted to say. A lifetime of that and I still have a hard time not crying when I need to say something important. I once cried all through an entire evaluation I was being given at a job I had and, afterwards, the HR manager told me never to let my boss see me cry again over work stuff, as it just doesn't look good. He wasn't there to be my mommy; he was there to tell me how to do my job better.

There are times when my tears are genuine, of course, but a lot of the time I realize that my tears are more connected to how I trained myself to express difficult communications, rather than the communication itself. So I have to control it. It is still my feelings I am controlling (somewhere inside I am apprehensive about saying what I need to say), and if I don't control them, the real deeper issues are obscured. Like if my eyes are brimming over when I try to express myself and say something I really want someone to hear, what often happens is the person notices and comments on the fact that I was crying rather than what I said. Ugh! So, yeah, controlling, managing feelings, however you want to put it... vital.
 
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Could we move the entire last two pages over to the conflicted thread?! The one with the guy cheating and saying he "unexpectedly" had sex with another woman without his wife knowing?

We can fall in love at the drop of the hat, its what we do with that after we realize it and find ita returned that matters.
 
Whoa, I had a nightmare about "unexpected" sex recently. Found myself suddenly in the midst of it with L, with absolutely no awareness of how it got to that point. Not fun -I was freaking out in my dream! I'm so thankful we actually can control our actions. Whew!
 
redpepper said:
Could we move the entire last two pages over to the conflicted thread?! The one with the guy cheating and saying he "unexpectedly" had sex with another woman without his wife knowing?
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Not sure if you're serious or joking, but since my responses here were specific to this thread, I'd rather not have my posts moved, RP. But I don't mind if you quote anything I wrote here for the other thread, if there's something I posted here that you would find applies to that one.
 
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I was joking. I ended up posting a link to here and a reference to these pages. Thanks, I might just quote as well if it helps to do so. :)
 
rory said:
I completely agree with you on that whole post! Though I was wondering if the concept of "controlling one's feelings" might be better put "managing one's feelings" or "controlling one's reactions to their feelings"? Just semantics (but hey, I remember you're into that :p), since I think there is a common misconception that one can control their feelings, when really all one can do is decide how they react to them and what they do. I did totally get your point, though, semantics aside. :)
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Very good point, I do think that word is probably more appropriate.

I like it when my (conversational) partners remember what I'm into. :D
 
Well she certainly can keep her own secrets well-hidden, and it's great that there's such a geographical distance between all of you where it won't likely be a problem. I think the 16-yr old will look at everything differently from now on-- new code for "talk." Those images are now in that little head. Talking will not dislodge them. I wouldn't be surprised if he views you differently after that. I bet his take on how people form relationships is ever shifting from the things he witnessed or is learning about. Now the new chapter, poly.

Why would you want to put your husband into an uncomfortable situation because you don't want to drive at night? What's your fear of night driving? Is he a natural-born night driver? Excellent night vision or something? I don't see how you're really going out of your way to help the struggling partner in this situation. "Okay, you don't want to go, fine. Then we'll be staying over. But I don't want you to stay over, either. Well, you pick it. I'm not driving at night. Ball's in your court." It sounds like (could be wrong) you are getting/doing what you want, and not just for the kids.
 
dingedheart said:
Why would you want to put your husband into an uncomfortable situation, because you don't want to drive at night? What's your fear of night driving?
Is he a natural-born night driver? Excellent night vision or something? I don't see how you're really going out of your way to help the struggling partner in this situation. "Ok, you don't want to go, fine. Then we'll be staying over. But I don't want you to stay over either. Well you pick it, I'm not driving at night. Ball's in your court." It sounds like you are getting/doing what you want...
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Mostly I don't think I'd feel safe driving for 2 hours after being up late dancing. In previous years we've always spent the night. I thought about seeing if another friend would go along and do the return driving, but I think if anyone (like Luke's son) is thinking anything inappropriate is going on, showing up without my husband is going to perpetuate that. I doubt my husband would like that, either. The best thing for the adults' situation might be for none of us to go, but the kids would be devastated. They already called foul because I visited Luke without them last weekend, and I assured them that they'd get to go soon. I also think that if we all go, he and Luke will have this jam-packed crowded event (I think last year about 85 people came) in which to get past their awkwardness, by being together without having to talk to each other, and that will remove a lot of the fears of "what-if." If there's a better scenario (for all of us, not just me) I just don't see what it would be, and neither does my husband.
 
Now that I think about it, I'm getting kind of confused. Here I have my three beloved men. My husband is great. Everything's good between us now. (He bought me flowers today, for no particular reason...)

With his permission, I tried getting more physically intimate with Colin, but was left feeling a little odd about it, because of his very busy life. Hard to not hear from someone for a couple of days after they've had their hand in your pants. So the next visit involved a lot more talking, and his assurance that I am more important to him than his level of interaction had led me to believe. He has been emailing, chatting, calling, and scheduled a whole day's visit next week, so he seems sincere, but I'm still not sure how much intimacy I can handle with someone I can't ask for any kind of commitment.

Last weekend's visit with Luke was certainly a long-time fantasy come true, but the repercussion seems to be that his relationship with my husband, and therefore my family, is in jeopardy. I liked him in bed, but I think I liked him as a friend of the whole family even more. So I'm thinking about taking the physical intimacy back out, although that may not fix things at this point. Maybe over time, though?

Isn't this odd? I finally have the freedom to enjoy somewhat-sexual relationships with Luke and Colin without cheating, and I'm not sure if I want them anymore (or yet, maybe, in Colin's case). I never expected to feel this way. Has this happened to anyone else? Even with Colin, I think of all the interests he has in common with my husband and I wish that they could become friends. They probably could have if I hadn't become so enraptured with his touch. I'm finding myself suddenly grateful for all the friends my husband and I share, who I am not sexually or romantically attracted to.

Have other people regretted adding sex (or limited kinds of sexual contact) to relationships because they've driven a wedge between partners?
 
AnotherConfused said:
Isn't this odd? I finally have the freedom to enjoy somewhat-sexual relationships with Luke and Colin without cheating, and I'm not sure if I want them any more (or yet, maybe, in Colin's case). I never expected to feel this way. Has this happened to anyone else? Even with Colin, I think of all the interests he has in common with my husband and I wish that they could become friends. They probably could have if I hadn't become so enraptured with his touch. I'm finding myself suddenly grateful for all the friends my husband and I share, who I am not sexually or romantically attracted to.

Have other people regretted adding sex (or limited kinds of sexual contact) to relationships because they've driven a wedge between partners?
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Well, no. I haven`t regretted actual sex, but I did confuse myself with certain aspects of sex. Some aspects of poly I internalized it, to think I needed to give more, compromise more. So things like fluid-bonding and sleepovers, I didn`t really feel a strong desire to have, but I did them, thinking I had to 'compromise' for partners.

The lessons were mine to learn. Nobody is pressuring me to not sleep over or not fluid bond. It is my choice, and the wrong thing to compromise on.

In your case, though, it sounds like the forbidden fruit might've been a bit more exciting? That isn`t necessarily a bad thing. You might still want sex, just not right now. It tells me that, at the least, with the 'permission' you can stop day dreaming, and the reality of the situation is settling in.

From here, you can just keep talking, keep evolving, and let things happen naturally and unforced.

It is much like losing your virginity. How well does it ever seem to work when people 'plan' a night to actually lose their virginity? Usually it backfires, or is less than desired.

If you want to lose your 'monogamous virginity', dont plan it, and don't be pressured into it. ( but DO be prepared for it.) Wait until you feel desire again (this time with no guilt :)).
 
It makes perfect sense that you might not feel totally comfortable yourself with getting what you've wanted for so long. I am not thinking so much about "forbidden fruit," as SourGirl mentioned, but just the discomfort of a new experience.

As an example-- before my husband and I split, we hadn't had sex in over two years. It bothered me and we talked about it, but never tried to rekindle what we'd previously had, for some reason. I guess it really was over, but neither of us wanted to admit it. I just kept hoping that someday we'd start having sex again (oy!). Then one day he asked for a divorce. When he moved out, it felt like the bottom had dropped out. I suddenly felt the depth and scope of having gone without physical intimacy for so long. It was so intensely painful. After a few months of sobbing over the emotional loss of my marriage, I started feeling like I could socialize again, and I began craving sex. Omigosh, it was truly a palpable, physical craving, and I really REALLY needed it.

The first few times I had sex with men other than my husband, to whom I'd been totally faithful for 12 years, it was exciting and fun and affirmed that I was still attractive and all that. But afterwards... I just felt weird. I had now crossed a line I never thought I would. I was single again, and it wasn't my husband in bed with me. Huh, how did this happen? It was what my body wanted, but I just didn't know how to wrap my brain around this new chapter in my life. I had this idea my life was heading in one direction, my separation turned it around, and now here I was with a strange naked body next to me. I was completely disoriented. WTF was going on?

It just took a while to transition. You can't expect a completely new dynamic to feel all comfy-cozy immediately. There has been a shift in energies. New sensations, new boundaries, more fully explored connections. It's going to be disorienting! It would be stranger if it was not, I think. And your husband has been transformed by the new dynamic, too. So, it feels like new territory, and it's startling.

I had to allow myself the space to experience the new feelings. But not giving myself those experiences would have robbed me of important realizations I'd made and things I learned about myself. Sure, I have had some periods, in the last 18 months or so, where I retreat a little bit to regain my footing, so to speak, but I ever want my life to stagnate again. So I immerse myself in the experience and let myself feel.

My sense of you is that you will never do anything without trying to think ahead to all possible ramifications, and this development in your relationships just simply surprised you. It's okay. You don't have to back away from your feelings, or try to categorize them so they make sense. Just take a few deep breaths, feel your feet on the ground and the new energy moving through you, and stay aware. You're doing fine.
 
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It occurs to me that you've mentioned several times at least how reinvigorated your sex life with your husband has been since opening up to intimacy with others. Maybe that's part of why you're feeling less driven to be close to Colin and Luke-- because you're getting more of your needs fulfilled within your marriage. Ironic!

That said, I agree strongly with SourGirl and NYCindie. Give it some time and don't jump into any rash decisions before your feelings have a chance to even out. Take each relationship at its own pace. If you need to slow down with one or another to process and sort out what will be most comfortable for both of you, that's perfectly okay.
 
I agree with the others. But I also wonder if there's any guilt in there, creating confusion? There may or may not be, depending on your personality. I know, for me, guilt is a powerful trigger, and I can try to avoid it even without realising it's there. Thus, unless I recognise the guilt, it can affect my judgement. When I notice the guilt, I see its impact and refuse to act on it, and that's when it loses its power. Just a thought.
 
Forbidden fruit... time to adjust... more fulfillment at home... guilt... Wow, it's wonderful having so many perspectives to help me figure this out! I think there is some truth to all of these thoughts.

Having had a few days to digest my encounter with Luke, I'm coming to the conclusion that curiosity played a big role in my desire for intimacy with him. He's always been the person in my life I can talk most openly with about sex, so we've had years of discussions on the topic, always with that background curiosity of what it would feel like together. The amount of contact we had last Saturday was enough for me to feel like now I know, pretty well, how it would be. And it's not that I don't think it would be great, but I just don't think we'd accomplish anything by going there (or going again to that place of sexual cuddling with limits in place). Instead, it's getting in the way of being able to have him in my life in more meaningful ways, like spending time with my whole family.

Luke says we can back up, slow down, wait and see, and he'll always be in my life, loving me, no matter how it manifests. Part of me wants to tell my husband that I plan to go back to just an emotional connection with Luke, nothing more then a hug and a peck on the cheek in greeting, in hopes it will repair their friendship. Another part of me wants to keep that door open, because I think the freedom, even if I don't act on it, has lifted a huge emotional weight off me.

This heating up of my sex life at home is directly connected to this freedom. Partly because that attention from Luke and Colin make me feel so sexy, partly because the knowledge that I can have those other encounters drives my imagination to wild erotic places, partly because I am so grateful and in love with my husband for accommodating me in these matters, partly because my stress load is down, partly because my marriage doesn't feel restrictive any more... all these factors combine to bring us to perhaps the best chapter of our sex lives yet, in almost 14 years together. So on the one hand, I don't have a need to go out and find sexual fulfillment with anyone else, but on the other hand, having that possibility out there is why this is working so well at home.

Guilt... that's there, definitely. My husband has said okay to this, but he doesn't like it, so even though I'm not sneaking and cheating, I still feel selfish. It makes me want to slow things down.

Colin is coming over in a week. We'll have half a day alone together, and we're leaning towards hiking if the weather cooperates. I think we both want to do non-sexual things in order to build up our friendship, but then if we are out in the woods alone, at least we can do some smooching. Then we'll spend the afternoon with my kids, as well, and he's staying for dinner when my husband gets home (with one or 2 other friends as hapless emotional buffers). He and my husband are both doing this for my sake. Neither one is enthused about being around the other, but I want them to at least know each other a tiny bit. I guess slow and steady is my plan with Colin, and he is in agreement.

It occurs to me that I've talked (emailed) with Luke and Colin both about slowing down or stopping the physical intimacy, and how I feel about it, but I haven't talked to my husband. Should I? Maybe he'd rather not dwell on these things. His DADT attitude makes me feel like he's out of the loop.
 
The reasons for my comments were the topic heading-- pace of the struggling partner, and that I'd been in your husband's place in regards to an event.

The pace: it seems like its been a small amount of time since you got the green light and your husband said he didn't want to attend for all the usual reasons. With the limited sex and DADT in place, he's constructed a nice little mental box to put this all in, seeing this guy or guys, having to talk to this guy, seeing you interact, flirty eyes, how you dance with each other, etc., forces him to face the reality he's not that special. Or the specialness he thought you two had is gone, in his mind, of course. If life circumstances were different, the kids, the house, or the rules of engagement (full PiV sex), you'd be taking full advantage, and so those images are still active in his head.

From my own experience, there was nothing, NOTHING, that I needed to hear from the other guy who was banging my wife. I realized I had nothing to say other than hello, and then let the conversation start from the other end. I didn't have any real fear that needed calming or some faux reassurances from the guy banging my wife. Small talk seemed equally awkward and stupid. So I went from one of the most outgoing people to shutting down.

Roles reversed, let's say you go to his office Christmas party and see the attractive women who he's got the exact same relationship parameters with as you have. What would you say to the woman who's being felt up and finger-fucked by your husband? Awkward, right? Oh yeah, and you've known her for years socially because of the employment history.

It just seem little sexiest (I know I've been accused of that here) that he had to go because you didn't want to drive late at night. Solutions-- car pool, great idea, take a nap, go to bed the night before a little earlier, don't dance every song. Unlike me, always the last to leave, leave a little early, have a cup of coffee before you take off, etc.

As for people thinking that something inappropriate going on-- isn't that a hair better left unsplit? You are being felt up and fingered by 2 men not your husband. I thought Luke talked with his son and sort of laid out the poly/open marriage idea. So you're worried that the kid will think his dad lied to him, and that you're cheating on your husband? Who cares what the kid thinks at this point, if he knows the truth?
 
AnotherConfused said:
The amount of contact we had last Saturday was enough for me to feel like now I know, pretty well, how it would be. And it's not that I don't think it would be great, but I just don't think we'd accomplish anything by going there (or going again to that place of sexual cuddling with limits in place). Instead, it's getting in the way of being able to have him in my life in more meaningful ways, like spending time with my whole family.

Luke says we can back up, slow down, wait and see, and he'll always be in my life loving me no matter how it manifests. Part of me wants to keep that door open, because I think the freedom, even if I don't act on it, has lifted a huge emotional weight off me.

It occurs to me that I've talked (emailed) with Luke and Colin both about slowing down or stopping the physical intimacy, and how I feel about it, but I haven't talked to my husband. Should I? Maybe he'd rather not dwell on these things. His DADT attitude makes me feel like he's out of the loop.
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Your husband stated what he was comfortable with, you agreed, and then he trusted you to use your judgment. I personally don't think it's necessary to keep reporting back to him all the peaks and valleys you go through with your male friends. Your husband might misinterpret your "backing away" a little bit as never going there again, so if the time feels right again at some point to revisit that kind of intimacy with either of them, it could be like a slap to your husband all over again.

You want to leave the door open? Just leave it open and stop worrying so much. There is a balance you need to find between being fully honest with him, and divulging all details of your other relationships (which also deserve their privacy), and that is a thing your husband has already said he doesn't want to know about. If you feel you must talk to hubby about it, you can say that you want him to know that just because you have his permission doesn't mean it happens every time when you are with the guys, but you appreciate having the freedom. Then he can realize that sometimes you step back from it on your own. But I don't think he needs a detailed report for every step you take.
 
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During my own recent holiday party tour I was reminded of one last year and I wondered what happened with the party you were planning to go to. How did it go? Big deal or no big deal?

You can't leave us hanging...
 
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