AnnabelMore
Active member
Yes! I like to think that's what I end up being. Even though we rarely active collaborate on it, Eric and I are partners in crime... the crime of making a woman who deserves it very happy!
the story of a secondary
- Thread starter AnnabelMore
- Start date
Yes! I like to think that's what I end up being. Even though we rarely active collaborate on it, Eric and I are partners in crime... the crime of making a woman who deserves it very happy!
BlackUnicorn
New member
Hi Annabel, just wanted to say I enjoy the hell out of your posts even though I'm somewhat slow to catch up sometimes.
The next time I'm hitting the doctor (to get a hearing aid and an IUD, though hopefully not at the same fitting!) I'll ask them to add my flatmate in my emergency contacts. Also, if I get a job for the summer I'll add her as my next-of-kin alongside my mum, so that messes like the one you described above wouldn't occur. Just wondering if you have a similar system in place where you live, where they automatically contact the people on a patient's list if a medical emergency occurs?
Flattie has been upfront lately about how she wishes I would be more of a friend and less of a parent to her. To communicate dissatisfaction in that way can, to my mind, be sometimes more constructive for a relationship than any amount of sweet-talk. To quote her 'You only dare to be angry with people you know won't be leaving you because of it'.
Okay, perhaps a bit of a far-fetched idea here, but have you and Eric talked about maybe connecting sexually the two of you for... emergency purposes?
The next time I'm hitting the doctor (to get a hearing aid and an IUD, though hopefully not at the same fitting!) I'll ask them to add my flatmate in my emergency contacts. Also, if I get a job for the summer I'll add her as my next-of-kin alongside my mum, so that messes like the one you described above wouldn't occur. Just wondering if you have a similar system in place where you live, where they automatically contact the people on a patient's list if a medical emergency occurs?
Flattie has been upfront lately about how she wishes I would be more of a friend and less of a parent to her. To communicate dissatisfaction in that way can, to my mind, be sometimes more constructive for a relationship than any amount of sweet-talk. To quote her 'You only dare to be angry with people you know won't be leaving you because of it'.
Even though we rarely active collaborate on it, Eric and I are partners in crime... the crime of making a woman who deserves it very happy!
Okay, perhaps a bit of a far-fetched idea here, but have you and Eric talked about maybe connecting sexually the two of you for... emergency purposes?
MrFarFromRight
Banned
Ditto!
Got a very strange look from my fellow Internet user when I burst over this one... In case the 2 fittings are at the same sitting, let's hope that the doctor isn't drunk!
AnnabelMore
Active member
An interesting thought, but probably not necessary -- she doesn't have any serious conditions and Eric would, in fact, let me know if there was a genuine emergency and a) there was anything I could do to help, or b) the acute-crisis period had passed and she could take visitors.
I'm not going to ask. Gia didn't purposefully decide not to be with me sexually. Her body and her mind are going through all these changes related to the pregnancy, and that's running the show right now. I know that she and Eric have had sex at least a little since she conceived, but my impression is that it's not nearly as much as it used to be -- she's had a near-constant yeast infection. If I have sex with him without her right now, I'd be rubbing it in her face that 1) she and I aren't having sex, and 2) he and she aren't having (as much) sex.
And anyway, there's no emergency, at least on my end... I have other lovers.
Which doesn't mean I wouldn't love to jump Eric, I just think it'd be a terrible idea right now.
MrFarFromRight
Banned
Sounds like a pretty responsible (and caring) attitude to me. Maybe Eric feels that he's on the losing end, but that's his call.I'm not going to ask. Gia didn't purposefully decide not to be with me sexually. Her body and her mind are going through all these changes related to the pregnancy, and that's running the show right now. I know that she and Eric have had sex at least a little since she conceived, but my impression is that it's not nearly as much as it used to be -- she's had a near-constant yeast infection. If I have sex with him without her right now, I'd be rubbing it in her face that 1) she and I aren't having sex, and 2) he and she aren't having (as much) sex.
And anyway, there's no emergency, at least on my end... I have other lovers.
AnnabelMore
Active member
Yeah, exactly. If he wants to broach the topic he can, or he could always find someone to sleep with who isn't me.
The subject of the birth itself finally came up between me and Gia. She doesn't want me there. She's going to have Eric, the midwife, the midwife's assistant and MAYBE her mom and that's it. She said that she'd do it completely alone if it was safe to do so and if it wouldn't be terribly unfair to Eric (it being his baby too). Basically, like I related in an earlier post, she gets stressed at the thought of people worrying about her and she wants to be as unstressed as possible during the birth.
Which makes perfect sense, of course. I'm surprised I thought her decision might be different, really. If I'd been writing this right after she told me I'd sound a lot more distraught. Now that I've had some time to come to terms with the idea, I'm in a better place about it. It would mean the world to me to be there, but of course her comfort in this situation has to come first.
Yesterday I asked my boss whether or not it would be ok for me to take off every Friday for a while, if I saved up enough leave time. She said yes. Gia's taking two months off when the baby is born and then she's going to go back to work part-time. Eric will be using whatever leave he can as well, but they'll have to find some outside care to make it work after that. My thought is that, when Gia goes back to work, I can fill in for at least a day a week for a couple of months.
It would be skirting the edge of co-parenting. I'm really not sure how she'll respond to the offer. I'll let you all know.
AnnabelMore
Active member
Sometimes I feel like this:
"All the time, I'm finding ways to make things fall in line
I know how tricky things can be, but I really do believe that
You are mine and all the stars are there before us
Listen here, some things are meant to be
Tried to take it slow, tried to lose control, but I'll tell you what the trick is
What you get is what you had to give away
When I learned, I found my eyes were opened"
-- Meant to Be, Squirrel Nut Zippers
Sometimes more like this:
"It's hard when you're always afraid
You just recover when another belief is betrayed
So break my heart if you must, it's a matter of trust
You can't go the distance with too much resistance
I know you have doubts, but for god's sake don't shut me out
This time you've got nothing to lose
You can take it, you can leave it, whatever you choose
I won't hold back anything and I'll walk away a fool or a king"
-- Matter of Trust, Billy Joel
"All the time, I'm finding ways to make things fall in line
I know how tricky things can be, but I really do believe that
You are mine and all the stars are there before us
Listen here, some things are meant to be
Tried to take it slow, tried to lose control, but I'll tell you what the trick is
What you get is what you had to give away
When I learned, I found my eyes were opened"
-- Meant to Be, Squirrel Nut Zippers
Sometimes more like this:
"It's hard when you're always afraid
You just recover when another belief is betrayed
So break my heart if you must, it's a matter of trust
You can't go the distance with too much resistance
I know you have doubts, but for god's sake don't shut me out
This time you've got nothing to lose
You can take it, you can leave it, whatever you choose
I won't hold back anything and I'll walk away a fool or a king"
-- Matter of Trust, Billy Joel
BlackUnicorn
New member
What was the single most disappointing thing about Gina's decision for you?
MrFarFromRight
Banned
When a friend / former girlfriend of mine was pregnant and asked me to be her birthing partner (I wasn't the father of the child - he was going through a divorce, was not going to continue the relationship with her, and couldn't afford to give his wife extra ammunition in the divorce court - so wouldn't acknowledge paternity) [fuller account here], I read everything on the subject of home births that I could get my hands on, and became a real fanatic. In "Spitual Midwifery" (a book that contains things I love* and things I loathe), one of the things I admired (and got a big worried about) was in one case where the birthing woman's [very nervous] husband / father of the child was making her really nervous. The midwife became aware of this and ordered him out of the room. He suffered because of that, but came to respect the decision, and realised that he would have suffered even worse if his continued presence had complicated the birth.
Rule one in home births (and a rule they ride over rough-shod in most hospitals - and even in some home births with doctors [as opposed to midwives] present): THE MOTHER RULES!!! Her needs and wishes - even whims - must be catered for... even if others feel slighted
.*There's one account where a mother - who's going through intense, heavy contractions - says to the midwife after one contraction:
"That one seemed lighter."
"Yeah," answers the midwife. "That's because I helped you carry part of it."
"Oh, right!" I thought. "Happy hippy dreams!
Wouldn't it be nice IF..."Another woman who met me at the home-birth preparation classes was impressed with her 3-year-old daughter's attachment to me (after one session [a film of a home birth] where we were all to invite everybody who would be attending our own home birthings) and invited me to attend her home-birthing.
When I showed up, She asked me (radically opposed to tobacco) if I wanted to share a tobacco-free joint with her. And I swear to you: while I was sitting next to her, stoned out of my box, I was feeling all of her contractions. She didn’t have to say anything. I felt them starting, cresting, and ebbing in intensity.
I was incapable of saying anything during them (the feeling is too intense), but the first time, while the intensity was ebbing, I turned to her and asked: “Have you just had a contraction?”
“Yes. It just finished 3 seconds ago.”
“Well, I had it with you.”
“Oh WOW!”
Happy hippy dreams!
Oh WOW!
AnnabelMore
Active member
Two things, since I can't pick just one.
1) I won't be there to support her. I had visions of holding her hand, distracting her or coaching her as needed, running to fetch water just... being there. Instead, she'll be going through this difficult thing and I won't know how she's doing. I won't know if she's struggling or even in danger. I want so much to help, but instead if I was there I would just be making it harder for her. It's a hard truth to accept.
2) I won't get to share this with her. When I was growing up, my mom used to tell me the story of my birth, how my dad was there with her through the hard, long hours, how he went out and bought her a stuffed animal when she decided she wanted one. Whether it's easy or hard, traumatic or orgasmic, it'll be something she goes through without me. It'll be a story she carries through her whole life, and I won't get to reminisce about it with her. It makes me feel sad and separate.
AnnabelMore
Active member
I believe in honesty more than almost anything. But every now and then being a good partner means hiding your feelings. When Gia and I talked about this, which was a conversation that happened online, I was just like "that's totally cool, no worries at all, whatever you need." I won't let her know how sad it makes me, because that would just make her feel bad and wouldn't help anything. There's no accomodation to be made here. So I have to be strong for her and let it go and not whine. I just wish she could see that I'm being strong... maybe then she'd trust me enough to let me be there with her. But if I show her, I'm invalidating the very strength I'm trying to embody. I know I'm being emo about this. I'm glad there's a place where I can let it out. Thanks, polyamory.com
AnnabelMore
Active member
BlackUnicorn
New member
How long have the two/three of you been together? In a year or two, she might be sad you weren't there. Do you feel that she wants to nest with Eric and you have less of a role in their life as a result? Have you talked about this co-parenting thing?
I know it does nothing to alleviate this particular sting, but this might not be her only birthing. It might be that one day she will there to hold your hand when you give birth.
I know it does nothing to alleviate this particular sting, but this might not be her only birthing. It might be that one day she will there to hold your hand when you give birth.
AnnabelMore
Active member
The three of us became casual lovers more than two years ago, and Gia and I have been dating for a year and a half. I do think there's a nesting instinct going on, and that it's part of the mix of things making her want more space.
We haven't talked about the idea of co-parenting. It's a decision that would have to involve Eric too, of course. This is *their* child, one they've been wanting and planning on for a long time. I'll play a role in the child's life, but I don't think my involvement will warrant a title like Mom #2. I can't even articulate whether or not that's something I want. I've never really imagined children of my own, it's a hard thing to think about.
What I want right now is for the two of them to really want me to be there, and for me to get the chance to help them, to bond with the child, and to continue to be a part of their lives. I've expressed as much to Gia and she's down with it. As for what it'll look like? I think that, like the relationship itself, it's going to have to be allowed a certain freedom to evolve organically.
Chances are good it will be -- if they have a second child they want to adopt. But who knows. And the potential reversal some day is neat to think about.
I haven't gotten a chance yet to bring up the idea of me taking some time off work to babysit in the first several months after the birth, but I'm very curious to see what their reactions will be.
LovingRadiance
Active member
Annabel,
I can imagine how heartbreaking that must be.
I just wanted to tell you-in case it might help a little.
I didn't want ANYONE with me either.
Maca was with me for all of them-because in spite of all of our other, day to day tribulations, the man just understands exactly what I need when I'm hurting. He can do labor and delivery like a pro.
IF (and it AIN'T happening) I ever had another, I'd be totally ok with it being only him-no midwife, no doctor, nobody but him.
Due to that, in spite of planning to have GG there when the little girl was born-his only child, I couldn't manage it when it came down to the wire and he sat in the next room with my sister waiting until the baby was born.
It wasn't personal against him (or my sister). I just get distracted very easily and when I'm hurting that bad, distraction is NOT a good thing AT ALL. I need to focus on breathing and helping the baby out. It's really important to me to feel TOTALLY safe and secure. Extra bodies-even those of people I trust with my life, are extra and that creates a sense of tension due to my inability to focus, the tension creates a sense of insecurity and unsafeness. Not because THEY are unsafe for me, because I am unsafe for me when there's more than one person there.
On a side note-you said she's decided she doesn't want you there for the birth. Does that mean she doesn't want you in the room or in the building? I ask, because like I said GG and my sister were in the waiting room. So once baby wasw born, they were able to see the baby, hold her, cuddle and bond while I took a shower, got cleaned up and dressed etc...
I can imagine how heartbreaking that must be.
I just wanted to tell you-in case it might help a little.
I didn't want ANYONE with me either.
Maca was with me for all of them-because in spite of all of our other, day to day tribulations, the man just understands exactly what I need when I'm hurting. He can do labor and delivery like a pro.
IF (and it AIN'T happening) I ever had another, I'd be totally ok with it being only him-no midwife, no doctor, nobody but him.
Due to that, in spite of planning to have GG there when the little girl was born-his only child, I couldn't manage it when it came down to the wire and he sat in the next room with my sister waiting until the baby was born.
It wasn't personal against him (or my sister). I just get distracted very easily and when I'm hurting that bad, distraction is NOT a good thing AT ALL. I need to focus on breathing and helping the baby out. It's really important to me to feel TOTALLY safe and secure. Extra bodies-even those of people I trust with my life, are extra and that creates a sense of tension due to my inability to focus, the tension creates a sense of insecurity and unsafeness. Not because THEY are unsafe for me, because I am unsafe for me when there's more than one person there.
On a side note-you said she's decided she doesn't want you there for the birth. Does that mean she doesn't want you in the room or in the building? I ask, because like I said GG and my sister were in the waiting room. So once baby wasw born, they were able to see the baby, hold her, cuddle and bond while I took a shower, got cleaned up and dressed etc...
MrFarFromRight
Banned
It SOUNDS amazing? What do you think that it FELT like?!“Oh WOW!”That sounds so, so amazing.
...(I kept having them with her until they became less insistent and we all went to bed.) I was woken up the next day [I was sleeping on a mattress in the living room where the birth was planned to take place]: "OK! This looks like it!"
The mother asked me if I wanted to share another tobacco-free joint that morning. I turned the offer down...
Otherwise I might have gone down in the history books as the first man to ever give birth!
p.s. BEAUTIFUL birth: one of the most amazing experiences of my life.
MrFarFromRight
Banned
Annabel, keep this in mind: Gia really doesn´t want anybody not totally necessary there. Hasn´t she told you that - in a way - she´d rather that Eric weren´t there... but that she feels that she... [how to express this?: owes it to him? can´t very well deny him his right to be there?]
We all sometimes do things against our real wishes out of feelings of obligation.
Let me share one more story from my first adventure in home births (aside from being born at home myself): In the preparation group, each couple was encouraged to invite the couple whose child was due after them. [This was so that each couple would get to witness a live home birth, to get used to the process BEFORE they had to deal with it in starring roles.] The couple due just before my friend said: "Good idea in theory, but with our first child it was a big party. This time we´d like a more intimate affair, so sorry..."
The couple 2 births before my friend´s birthing invited her (and me) to theirs.
Both his and her mother were also there and the mother-to-be asked him to send his mother (or both) away. [She didn´t mind her own mother being there, but her mother-in-law´s presence was making her tense.]
He didn´t have the strength of character to tell his mother to go... his wife continued to be tense... and ended up having a caesarian in hospital and a stressed new-born. (The only "failed" home birth in our group.)
Personally, I think that you should be glad that Gia "trusts you enough" to tell you straight that she´d be more relaxed without your presence. It´s not a personal slight to you (see Loving Radiance' most recent post): she´d be more tense the more people who were there whoever they were (including - apparently - Eric).
I'm sorry if I made you jealous with my own experience of attendance at births. (That wasn't my intention.) But I'll tell you this: I have (for 2 different reasons) lost all contact with all 3 children involved - my ex-girlfriend's son, the girl who was born after my contractions, and her elder sister [and with their parents]. The 2 I saw born have recently turned 28. I haven't seen them since they were 8. I would willingly trade all my memories of those 2 home births for the chance to be their friend today.
Be a good friend to Gia and Eric's child and you won't mind so much missing the birth.
LovingRadiance
Active member
This. I can confidently say that there is NO ONE who is more devoted and close to our littlest, than GG. He wasn't there in the moments she was born. He didn't see her body slide from mine.
But, he hasn't missed a day in the almost 4 years since and those days are overwhelmingly more significant and bonding than the day of birth.
She adores him. Not a morning goes by that she doesn't run to his room to wake him up and not a night goes by that she doesn't wait for him to tuck her in and read her a story.
She's a daddy's girl (with Maca) but her bond with GG is just as significant as her bond to her daddy and I daresay, more significant to her than her bond with me!
Don't underestimate the love of a child.
My 11 year old is the same way with GG and he wasn't at that birth either. He's not closer to ANYONE than he is to GG. That's GG's "little buddy" and they're like peas in a pod, not to mention inseparable. The time after the baby is born is SOOOOO much more important.
HUGS!
AnnabelMore
Active member
It really does, thank you.
Wow!
It sounds like Gia is wired the exact way you are.
That question hadn't occurred to me. She's having a home birth and I imagine she'll want to wander around the house, so I don't think I could be there. But maybe I could wait at a cafe nearby or something like that and then visit as soon as she's ok with it.
I'll have to talk to her about the possibilities... when I'm feeling up to it. I get so SO scared of anything remotely resembling emotional rejection that I have to work my way up to each conversation about a topic that has serious meaning to me. And there's *so* much to talk about in a poly relationship. It getss tiring sometimes!
AnnabelMore
Active member
I'm sorry if I made you jealous with my own experience of attendance at births. (That wasn't my intention.) But I'll tell you this: I have (for 2 different reasons) lost all contact with all 3 children involved - my ex-girlfriend's son, the girl who was born after my contractions, and her elder sister [and with their parents]. The 2 I saw born have recently turned 28. I haven't seen them since they were 8. I would willingly trade all my memories of those 2 home births for the chance to be their friend today.
Be a good friend to Gia and Eric's child and you won't mind so much missing the birth.
It's all good, I like hearing those stories. I'm so sorry that things haven't worked out so well since. And I think you're right, that's a really good way to think about it.