The Struggling Mono Thread

Does that make sense?

It does for you. That's all that matters.

Every relationship in our lives has its own shape based on what both us and the other person wants it to be. Your husband is telling you want he wants. And then you get to tell him what YOU want.

If it is a deal breaker for you then tell him that poly is a deal breaker for you. If you can't handle it then you can't handle it. That's fine. He can't force you to be in a relationship that is poly. He can choose to not to be actively poly. Or you can choose to end your relationship with him if he insists on following through with being actively poly.

If you can't forgive him for even having the impulse... well, then the deal is already broken, because you already know he has the interest and the impulse.
 
GalaGirl, I don't think I'm fighting to keep status quo, I'm fighting to revive and maybe renovate our marriage. There's a lot that could stand some work.

What I'm saving the marriage from is harder. If he truly does need a polyamorous lifestyle to be happy, I'm not going to ask him to NOT do what he wants. But I don't know if I can be happy in a poly marriage.

A2Poly,

"If you can't forgive him for even having the impulse... "

It's not the impulse, it's the deceit. It would have been nice to know this before I fell in love, before I said I do, before we had kids. Surely, there was a moment in time when he could have piped up and said, "You know what, I don't want to be faithful to you." It would have been nice to know.
 
Hi Monomom

I see there is quite a bit of interest and input into your situation, but I'm interested in how you are going?

I empathise with you because I know how hard it must be for you to consider leaving your marriage. I had no children with my partner and it still took me six years to work through all the ins and outs of polyamory and be certain that it was in fact a deal breaker for us. It was the best relationship I had ever had and I tried everything I could think of to make it work but in the end it came down to the simple fact that Mike didn't believe he could be Mike as a mono and I no longer believed that I could be happily me in a poly relationship. We are continuing to live together (in separate rooms) until our lease is up at the beginning of April, we are still very close, and although it has been difficult transitioning our relationship from one of loving life partners to great friends I am proud of the way that we have achieved this. I am very excited at being in a new loving relationship I have found with a very monogamous man and it feels like a huge relief.

You do seem to be getting some good suggestions here from the poly fraternity but if you would like some assistance from other's in polymono relationships there is a polymono support group in yahoo groups. You should be able to find it by searching but if not let me know and I will be more specific.

Hugs Sage
 
I don't know if it's good or not, but I feel like I was heard today.

We'll hire an assistant and an accountant (I was really not looking forward to taxes this year). He agreed on the terms I commit to 6 months of marriage counseling and take divorce off the table (I would have given him 12, but something in me said to not show ALL my cards). He agreed to the therapist I found and I'll call Monday to set things up. He's agreed to hold off on all the poly talk, and he profusely apologized for keeping me so overwhelmed I can't do anything but cope.

I want to start training again, I was an NRA competitive shooter (handgun and small-bore rifle). I haven't been on a range in years except to renew my license. I may never get back to competition, but I miss the fun and camaraderie. He'll watch the kids when he's home and let me go out for a bit. Not sure what else I want to pursue, but it's a start.
 
I don't know if it's good or not, but I feel like I was heard today.
That's great!

We'll hire an assistant and an accountant (I was really not looking forward to taxes this year) . . . and he profusely apologized for keeping me so overwhelmed I can't do anything but cope.
I suppose it was an eye-opener for him, because he has been used to things running so seamlessly for him, that he must have been blinded to how much hard work and a balancing act it was for you.

That is one of the problems of being very skilled and capable - the energy it takes can be invisible to others. A duck on the water appears so calm and relaxed while they are floating on the surface - yet we do not see how much their little webbed feet are paddling underneath them just to stay in one place! While he was enjoying golfing on his time off, you were just exhausted.

Glad you will get the help you need. That is a great step to take. He can give up a few golf games to make this happen for you. That is what partnership is about. It does sound like he heard you. I am glad to read that he apologized. I hope he follows through on everything else.

He agreed on the terms I commit to 6 months of marriage counseling and take divorce off the table . . . He agreed to the therapist I found and I'll call Monday to set things up. He's agreed to hold off on all the poly talk . . .
Is there a typo here? He is committing to going to couples counseling with you, correct? If so, good!

As for holding off on the poly talk, well, don't you think it might naturally come up in counseling, when you discuss what prompted you to wind up there? I can see tabling any kind of push towards opening your relationship - that is reasonable - but considering that the whole bottom dropped out because he broached the subject of polyamory, it would sort of be an elephant in the room if you don't talk about it at all. However, it is just one aspect of what needs to be addressed between you two. There are all the sacrifices you made and his selfishness/inability to see your sacrifices, for one thing, and loss of affection for another.

Did you let him know how angry you are over his bombshell? I hope you do not hold it in and let it fester. When we do not express anger, it turns to bitterness and wears us down.

I want to start training again, I was an NRA competitive shooter (handgun and small-bore rifle). I haven't been on a range in years except to renew my license. I may never get back to competition, but I miss the fun and camaraderie. He'll watch the kids when he's home and let me go out for a bit. Not sure what else I want to pursue, but it's a start.
That's great! Every couple needs to give their partner time and space to pursue their own interests. I regret giving some of mine to focus on what my stbx wanted, and am getting back to them little by little. I feel like I am taking "me" back from some sort of limbo zone.

I hope the counseling goes well. Keep us posted.
 
nycyndie,
I meant he's laying off the constant deluge of polytalk. Saving it for therapy, small doses in a controlled environment. Small bites instead of cramming the whole thing down my throat all at once.
 
Hi monomom (and everyone else),

I guess my situation differs from yours in that I'm not married to my (poly) partner - he didn't ask to open up the relationship. I went into this with my eyes open. Or so I thought. :rolleyes: Being prepared logically isn't quiiiiiiite the same as being prepared emotionally. I'm sure if you've read my blog thread that NYC pointed you to, that's abundantly clear by now.

A little backstory if you haven't read it: I'm mono. Married for 17 years. Divorced. Now with my partner who has another live-in partner as well (he splits time evenly between the two of us) and another partner he sees when he can. Added complication: it's what some folks would consider long-distance (1.5 hour drive between homes). I don't do things easy. :p

I'll do my best to answer what I can, but there's a lot of pages to go through and I know I'll miss something (thanks for the pointer, NYC!). Please feel free to ask anything you like...

Before I get into quotes or anything like that, I'm going to say this: your husband has had a whooooole lotta time to discover/realize that he's poly. You've had, what - less than a week if your first post is when he told you? You need time as well. Time to figure out what this means to YOU. Time to feel what you need to feel. Time to "researchinate". Time without pressure to suddenly "get it" or "stuff it".

I know you read Franklin Veaux's book, and I know you're still feeling raw, but I'll add this - one of the underlying themes of Franklin's writing (and maybe he's not quite so explicitly clear on this - I haven't finished the book yet) is that if you are partnered with someone, there is an expectation of COMPASSION from that person. Otherwise, why are you partnered with them to begin with?

The "own your shit" and all that other stuff isn't meant to be done in a vacuum, or in a my-way-or-the-highway way. It's meant to be done with someone who honestly cares about how you're feeling. It's meant to be done in a manner of give-and-take. Of giving you time to digest what he's taken years to figure out, and of working WITH you. It's OKAY to ask for that.

God knows that Chops (my partner) has dealt with a LOT of emotional topsy-turviness from me. Still does, when our schedule gets all out of whack, actually. But he WANTS to work at this, so he does. It's never been my-way-or-the-highway other than the acknowledgment that he's not monogamous. We've worked our way through the rest of the hard stuff together. That's what having a partner is all about. Not "suck it up, Buttercup."

So, I'm going to go through the posts and answer the questions I can, but I just wanted to give a "hey" - you're not alone. Even if our situations are a bit different. :)
 
Spelunking through the posts, quoting as willy-nilly as I see fit... lalalalalalala...

WhatHappened said:
I am not, however, obligated to stay with someone who is willfully breaking his vows, who is willfully hurting me by his own decisions and actions; furthermore by actions and decisions he is actively making and pursuing, knowing those actions are hurting me.

This is what I mean by compassion - there's a difference between stumbling around like a half-cocked bull in a Waterford shop and willfully hurting one's partner, and it's not always easy to tell the difference in the beginning. A whoooooole lot of talking (and counseling!) will help, but it can take time to figure out if he's just being an asshat, or if he's trying but not doing so hot. Sounds as though (from some of your later posts) that he's trying, which is good.

monomom said:
Okay, how do you handle intimacy issues after being told your spouse wants other lovers? I didn't want him touching me for a long time after he told me he wants to open our marriage.

I'm a bit of an oddball in that this aspect of poly has never bothered me, and I was about to punt and not address this, but I figured I'd ask this: are your intimate moments focused on you? Are they beautiful/wonderful? Then he is focusing on you, and it is beautiful. End. Fin.

If I start to entertain thoughts about what Chops feels/does when he's with other partners, I stop myself, because when he's with me, he's with ME. Our intimate time together doesn't lack - it'd be the same (I'm sure) regardless of whether or not he has one other partner or twelve.

Does hubby do the things you like, because he knows you like them? Is he tender when/where you need tenderness and/or rough when/where you need roughness? Then he's with you. All the way. And that is a wonderful thing.

monomom said:
Wanted to also add that you have been caregiver to high-needs kids. AND helping to run a business. Of COURSE you have personal needs that haven't been met.

Please, PLEASE do not feel that asking for time away (I can see that you've asked for help with the business, and I think that it's wonderful that you did so) is a bad thing. You need some time to be YOU. Especially if you're feeling as though your hubby is asking for time to be himself without regard for your time as well. Compassion/reciprocation can be huge. Please remember to ask for what you need. Far too many people feel (unnecessarily) guilty for doing so.

monomom said:
I was looking forward to some time alone with him this summer. And now he's talking about spending time dating and building relationships with someone else, so it seems like he wasn't as excited about spending time with me as I was with him.
Have you mentioned this to him? I would tell him exactly this - that I was hoping to spend more time with him, and now it seems like he doesn't want this. Have this conversation... even if it's during counseling. Lay out what you hoped and dreamed. You may find that he does want more time with you, even if he wants time with others. You may find something to work with. Assuming he doesn't want time with you, though, takes that all away before you can even talk about it. Don't do that to yourself. We really can be our own worst enemies here.

monomom said:
Poly is smacking your love in the head every time you pass because it's "who you are and what you need" and it's your love's responsibility to deal with it.
Well... kinda.

It's the "I fall in love with other people" thing. That's about it. What does HE do with it. What does he expect/hope YOU to do with it? There's a whole lotta discussion/agreement to happen here, and it isn't just 'suck it up, Buttercup.'

Maybe it's, "I would like to talk about these other people I have feelings for."

Maybe it's, "I would like to talk about the fact that I have these feelings at all."

Or, maybe it's, "I would like to date this person."

What is it with you and hubs? What can you start with that would be comfortable... with BOTH of you? Can you talk about *being* poly and having feelings, without dating (as GG alluded to)? Talking about feelings but not acting on them? Maybe baby steps will help your hubby feel more accepted without feeling threatening?

I'll add my voice to NYC's to say that there is no "Poly Way". Chops is Chops. Your hubby is your hubby. People are who they are, and just because they can love more than one person, it doesn't mean that they're the same.

Chops tends to get aggravated by the "Poly Scene", anyway, so there ya go. Another non-statistic. ;)

monomom said:
And I seriously don't get how you can NOT know someone you love is hurting, scared, needs reassurance and affection.

Because they're obtuse? Or maybe, because we're THAT good at putting on a good face for others...

It's not always "because they're poly." It may just be that you're so good at soldiering on, they just don't see it.

I fell into that trap when I had a breast cancer scare a few years back. I was fine until the kids went to bed, then broke down in front of my then-husband, who complained, "What the hell happened - you were fine when the kids were up!"

If we're THAT good at putting on the face? They may not have ANY idea what's going on behind that face. Drop it. Drop the face. It may confuse the hell out of them, but it's REAL.

monomom said:
So, now I'm asking for advice from anyone. I know poly is supposed to be one big happy family, everybody likes everybody and gets along

That's just one (poly-family) aspect of polyamory. It's not "how things should be". If you don't want that, you don't want that. It's something to TALK about, not something you should feel you've failed at from the start.

For the record, I have a strained relationship with my metamour... and we even started dating Chops at the same time. I'm working on changing that (update to the blog thread is coming), but still. You are friends with the people YOU like, correct? Hubs doesn't pick friends for you, correct? Then why in hell should it be any different here?

Some folks love the intertwined-family thing. Some don't. You're not weird for not feeling all squishy and welcommy inside. You're YOU. And that's OKAY.

BTW, DADT is fine in certain circumstances. Don't let other people dictate what's right for you.

monomom said:
I put off or cancelled anything I wanted to do, thinking our time, MY time, would come and it would be worth it. And now he's telling me he's never been completely happy and our life together isn't enough

No. No, no. NO.
I hope the others' comments have weighed in here, but... no. Your time matters. Your feelings matter. This is a PARTNERSHIP, and YOUR feeling matter. You don't just give until you can't give anymore. It's time to ask for the things you need. Please keep doing so.

monomom said:
having other love affairs, other sexual and romantic encounters, takes away from what we have

Time to plug the book if I haven't already, but please read Gary Chapman's "5 Love Languages" if you haven't already. It's not a poly book... in fact, it's written from a Christian monogamist point of view, but I found it HUGE in understanding how I and my partner relate to each other. This quote read very "Physical Touch" heavy, and I wonder if monomom and her hubby both have the same love languages. If not, it's a HUGE undertaking to try to understand each other, but it's extremely rewarding.

monomom said:
And by "shared laundry", I'm assuming sheets/towels and a couple of outfits, and not two weeks of oilfield muck covered jeans and shirts

A caution - don't compare here.

I will do Chops' laundry. I don't expect his financial input to this household. HOWEVER, I bought this house strictly as a big-old middle finger to those who thought I'd have trouble starting over. This house was my independence. I do the laundry that needs to be done. Nuff said.

I believe Chops would do his best to do more if I asked him to do. I don't. This house would be mine without him in my life, and that's my going-in position. When he does laundry, dishes, or what-not, it's a bonus to me. And yes, Chops gets his stuff dirty. He lays under cars and does stuff that I'd still like to learn how to do someday. And I still leave some of the decorating choices for him... because I know he likes that. The house? Mine. The home? Ours. There *is* a difference.

After being married for some time, I know that'd be conflated, but it's definitely worth a talk. What do YOU feel is YOURS? What do you take ownership of? What do you BOTH take ownership of? It's a good starting point.

...

I guess I got through all the posts. Yay on getting through to him that you need assistance in the business. You can't do it all. Yay on counseling. These things are HUGE!

Hang in there. You have folks here who are trying to help... please keep posting and asking questions. And heck, if hubby's up for it, have him make an account and start posting as well. You don't have to read each others' threads. ;)

All my best.

Any other questions, please feel free to ask or PM me. I know we're not coming from the same circumstances... opening an existing relationship always seems to have to deal with trust issues that I didn't have going in. However, it doesn't mean there isn't something to relate to.

You be YOU, and ask for what you need. Here's hoping counseling and talking keeps going well.
 
YouAreHere,
Thank you for spelunking, I know it was a lot of territory to cover.

Full background disclosure. First polybomb, last Spring, he came to me admitting he'd fallen for a colleague with whom he'd been hanging out (her and husband are poly), discovered there was a name for what he'd always felt and wasn't it great he could have his cake and eat it too? Meltdowns, therapy, more meltdowns, more therapy, agreement to put off poly for a year. Things settled down, but heated up in the business so therapy dropped off. I assumed it was over and done, just a phase, and we could get back to normal. A lot of the extra lovey dovey stuff dropped off, when he's home he just wants to rest and unwind, so okay. Then after Thanksgiving, Natasha the Uber-Geologist sashayed into the Tulsa office and they just gravitated to each other. And there we were back in poly....again. To my knowledge, and I believe him, nothing has happened beyond lunches together, work, and a lot of flirting and sexual tension. But he's been honest that he'd be all over her in a heartbeat if only.... So now it's back to panic mode and oh shit. Christmas was interesting.

"I'm a bit of an oddball in that this aspect of poly has never bothered me, and I was about to punt and not address this, but I figured I'd ask this: are your intimate moments focused on you? Are they beautiful/wonderful? Then he is focusing on you, and it is beautiful. End. Fin."

I know this is my hangup. Mine to deal with. It's a combination of control freak, OCD, germaphobia and the fact that sex to me isn't a recreational activity like badminton, it's something you do with the one you love. One. If you do it with a bunch of people, it dilutes it. Strips the specialness. I also have huge insecurities about my desirability as a lover. As a wife, I'm the shit, I know I can't be replaced in that regard. Some can come close, but nobody can do what I do the way I do it. Sexually, I'm sure Natasha can fuck circles around me. So, combine my OCD repulsion at multiple partner sex with my inherent fear that he's going to realize I really suck, and not in an erotic way, and I really don't think I can handle it. Losing everything that's unique and special in our marriage to someone who does it better.

"Does hubby do the things you like, because he knows you like them? Is he tender when/where you need tenderness and/or rough when/where you need roughness? Then he's with you. All the way. And that is a wonderful thing."


This is something we started working on, really had a stunted sex life for the better part of our marriage. He's my 2nd lover and I'm his umpteenth lover. He felt wild sex was disrespectful to me and I didn't know any better. I thought what we were doing was wild sex. So yeah, we were working on that before work got crazy and we fell back into old patterns and Natasha showed up. One thing I've noticed now that he's had two known crushes to compare. When he's really into another woman, his passion and interest in me shifts. When he comes home from a trip where he's been exposed, he's distant and withdrawn for a couple of days (Used to chalk this up to decompression from work). When I initiate, he tends to be my normal lover. If he finally initiates, it feels like he's having sex with someone else. New things get thrown in the mix, and he's very quiet during and after. We need to talk about this. I don't want to be Natasha's stand in for sex. This is what I fear if we do open. I'll become obligation sex. So, if he only gets to date and not consummate, I'd be getting a whole lot of great sex meant for someone else. If he dates and has sex, I get leftover passion from his other lover(s).

I have always felt like everything is his, he makes the money and pays the bills. He doesn't stress this daily or even regularly, but it has come up in arguments. Even though it's my home and sanctuary, I don't feel like I could say, "Hey, I'm not comfortable with you bringing your lovers here," because he's the one who pays the bills and mortgage. Really, it's more his house than mine. If we do divorce, I'd take our kids and move, like you said, to MY house. May take me a while to get a MY house, but wherever we are would be mine.

And I didn't mean to write another novel. He's headed back to Tulsa for a week and my stomach is in knots.
 
New to poly trying to figure things out

Hi everyone,
First of all I would like to say that I'm new to this site as well as the world of polyamory. I have read every single page in this thread and have to say I have learned a lot about my current relationship as well as what polyamory actually is. Notably I would like to thank sage and vodkafan you both have had some excellent points.

Now I would like to give some background on my story because I haven't seen many posts from my position. For starters I have always identified as mono but I have never had any exposure to polyamory before so the idea of it is new to me.
I recently started dating a girl maybe three months ago. I knew going in the she had a boyfriend (they have been together a total of 4 years I think with a two year break in the middle. Initially I didn't think much of it; I wasn't (and still am not) looking for anything super serious as I will probably move within the year. But the relationship has proven to be difficult. Though her and her bf have been open for a while I'm the first one for either of them to actually date, in addition to the fact that I'm the first girl she has ever been with. I think this has caused a lot of difficulties because we are both so new at these and we don't know where the boundaries lie. Being the emotional and sensitive person I am I think I come off to strong though I know that is not what I entirely want. But I think my feelings scare her. That is the best way to describe it. Recently we had a discussion that her having to say no to me is causing her a lot of guilt. She is left feeling that I am not getting enough from her. Which, I tried to explain, is not true I'm happy with the relationship and the amount we see each other and communicate.However, being entirely single besides her as well as having a very limited number of friends that live near me I believe its only natural for me to ask her to hang out frequently. When she says she can't I'm typically fine with it and don't pout, but she thinks its really upsetting me. So this brings up my first question...should I not be so vocal on my desire to see her and let her take more of the lead? I don't want to ask to much of her, but at the same time I want her to know I want to see her.
In addition, since our last discussion we decided to cut back the amount that we text since she was going home for the holidays and we though it was best to have space and think. She got back in town last week but I still have not seen her because all of her friends came into town. This has been really hard on me. Lack of communication is a huge stressor for me because of past relationship issues. I don't know how to discuss this without sounding needy.

Sorry that was so long! But I really like this girl and am willing to work on things to make it work. Any advice would help!
 
tonkspaw,

I understand about not wanting to appear needy. I'm having a really hard time asking for what I need, battling the feeling I shouldn't have to ask if my husband was really interested in me. I'm also afraid to ask because I have a feeling I'm going to find out he isn't and that's going to really hurt. Bottom line, ask. Either you get what you need, YAY! Or you find out you're more into her than she is to you, and you can make a decision about what you want. At least you don't have kids and a mortgage, not that that makes it any less painful, just less complicated.

monomom

Now, if I could have some advice please? Spouse's crush and her long-term non-marital romantic partner are going to be in our area code in a couple of weeks, and they all want us to get together for dinner, a double date of sorts. Half of me is going NO!!!!!! No way in hell, who is dating whom? Spouse and her? Her and Partner? Spouse and her and partner and I'm a spare? Part of me is curious, wants to see this paragon of all that is woman and Science. Last time he did this to me, his crush and her husband showed up at my house after dinner for coffee and a chat. At least this time I'm getting advance warning and a chance to decline, so maybe he learned something.

So should I go? What the hell am I supposed to chat with them about over dinner? And how do you handle a meal with your spouse and someone he's confessed to having romantic and sexual feelings for without going batcrap crazy?
 
So should I go? What the hell am I supposed to chat with them about over dinner? And how do you handle a meal with your spouse and someone he's confessed to having romantic and sexual feelings for without going batcrap crazy?

How much advance notice do you have to give your spouse about whether you're going to dinner? I ask because my gut reaction would also be, "No way in hell," but I'd probably come around to it in time.

Usually, the reality of the person is much easier to accept than the fantasy you have in your mind of what they're like. Also, giving her the chance to meet you will make you a real person to her, and I think that's ultimately helpful.

If I were you, I think I'd tell my spouse, "Sure, I'll go, but it's just dinner. No drinks or coffee afterwards, no stretching it out all night." Then you go, you chat for an hour, distract yourself with your meal if necessary, and you're done. And make sure he understands that your only reason for going is to meet her. Not that you won't be pleasant to her partner, but you're not trying to strike up a love connection there.

Good luck -- I would be similarly fraught if this were my situation. But it sounds like it could work out, as long as you communicate your feelings to your spouse ahead of time.
 
monomom,

A thought - you may want to start your own thread. Either Poly Relationships or General Poly Discussions would be good sub-forums for that. You've got a lot going on, many questions and concerns and it might be good to gather them in one dedicated 'place'. Please note I'm *not* a mod and this is just a suggestion, not a requirement or a demand. There is certainly nothing wrong with continuing to post in this thread.

I've been following your posts. I have to say - if my spouse suddenly wanted to pursue some intensive hobby, requiring time away, that they had never mentioned before in 20 years, that inconvenienced me (at best), reduced our time together and required some sacrifice on my part - all after finally getting to a point in life after facing hardships in raising children and running a business that we could spend some time on us... Well, I can only say there would multiple smacks to the head. And it would not be my own head. I would be deeply hurt.

Please, please bring up your grief about finally getting to a place in life where you and he can spend time with each other, put your relationship first in line as opposed to having it on a backburner, and then he drops this bomb on you. I get that the 'hobby' being polyamory also brings in all sorts of other issues and concerns. But from what you've written, you would have been understandably hurt if he wanted to focus on bird watching all the time and not spend time with you.

You may already be doing this but search the tags for things like 'monogamy' 'monopoly' and similar. Your feelings and reactions have been shared by many folks on the board over the years. You might find it helpful to read similar threads.

Regarding hubby's crush, it's way too early for double dating. Don't get yourself tied in a knot over possible permutations. Just say no to a 'date'. That said, it might be useful for you to meet her. Going out to dinner with them on a friendly basis offers you the opportunity to meet her, see how she interacts with a current partner (cause that may give you some clues as to how she might treat your husband if it gets to that and I'm not saying it will or should). We often build up other folks in our minds - and that picture may be wildly inaccurate. She might be Science Goddess but incapable of chewing with her mouth closed. She might have the worst taste in wines ever. Maybe she loves the Kardasians. You will get a more accurate picture of her from meeting her. And that can be valuable. If you do meet her, keep in mind she is not responsible for the upset in your marriage. She's a bystander. It's not her fault - if she wasn't around, it's entirely possible your husband would be crushing on someone else entirely.

But also, on the flip side, it may be too soon to meet her. You and your husband have a lot of work to do on your relationship. There is nothing wrong with declining to meet her at this point. I do suggest you make it clear you are keeping the door open to meeting her at some other point, just not now.
 
Monomom, I'm in agreement with opalescent and thirteenth - there's nothing wrong with declining to get together right now, or with saying that you may feel more comfortable meeting just her (and not as the third wheel, either), but may feel ganged-up on or stressed out about the dynamic if her other partner is there (or whatever your concern is - expressing it is a GOOD thing).

Honestly, if you were going through counseling and working on your marriage, and life got in the way, then maybe reestablishing that should be the priority over meeting these new people. Maybe you'd feel more comfortable taking the meeting off the table for now, and waiting until you're back in the swing of counseling, etc.?
 
Tonkspaw -- the best thing you can do is ask HER. Let go of evaluations.

If she thinks you are upset and you are not actually upset? The problem is HER thinking. Not you. So point it out calmly and let "her stuff" be her stuff to solve, and not let it be "your stuff" to fret over.

If you think you overask, you could ask her that too. "Do I ask too much? Do you prefer I ask you thinks about relationship management once a week rather than at random?"

You could ask "Hey, it seems to bother you when I ask you to hang out at random... would it be easier to just having standing dates? Like Tues and Sat this semester? So I can know when we get together? And then anything else bonus YOU will ask me out? So you are not getting overwhelmed by my questions? We could pick other dates next semester. "

That could ease the pressure off both of you. It is NORMAL in the early part of a relationship to ask questions about preferences and other relational things. You guys are figuring things out, calibrating, etc.

Galagirl
 
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Monomom:

Could keep this a lot simpler on you. If half of you is going "Hell no!" then the idea of going out with them is not a "joyous yes." Anything less than a joyous yes right now? Call it a "no." Being decisive can go a long way in stripping stressors away.

That means

  • No way in hell = no
  • No = no
  • That scares me = no
  • Meh. I could take it or leave it = no
  • Maybe yes... I'm not really sure = no
  • Better than what's on TV tonight. Ok, yes. = no

The only "yes" that counts is this one:

  • YES! Hooray! I am so joyful to do this! I am so excited! Yay! = YES

Makes discernment a lot easier right now to have that as a high standard to go by. Invitations for new stuff have to be an awesome, stellar yes for you to call it "yes." Because doing stuff, even fun stuff, takes up energy. And you are low energy right now.

In the meanwhile, for your self care do some restful things for you. Catch a movie. Hang at a bookstore. Have tea with a pal and NOT talk about the recent crazy so you get a break. Something that ADDS to restfulness for you, rather than TAKES AWAY more energy.

To me? Reducing your stress right now seems imperative. So just clear your desk each day, one day at a time and don't spend too much time dwelling on stuff.

After recently dropping a bomb on you? I think it is in poor taste to even bring up double dating with his current crush at this time. How does behavior like that TAKE AWAY from the marital stress problems he helped create? To me he is just ADDING to the stress.

I don't think that is not kind or loving behavior to do to spouse. Counseling needs to be a priority -- extra time and energy could be spent on preparing for that or stress reducing/energy conserving activities. Not stress increasing activities or energy spending activities.

But if he wants to go on this dinner, he is free to do so. Say nothing to him other than "No, thanks. Not for me." Could write down the objectionable behavior and save it for your talk with the counselor. Do not get sucked into another argument. Conserve energy.

I think he is being all kinds of arrogant in his behavior. I could be wrong, but from what you write, that's my opinion. :(

Last time he did this to me, his crush and her husband showed up at my house after dinner for coffee and a chat. At least this time I'm getting advance warning and a chance to decline, so maybe he learned something.

Nope. I identify this as a manipulation/compliance technique that is the opposite of "foot in the door." With foot in the door, you ask for a small thing, and then next time ask for a bigger thing. This one is called "door in the face." You do something outrageous to start. (No notice, dump crush for coffee date in your living room.)
So that the next request seems "reasonable" by comparison. (Advance warning, restaurant date with crush).

Don't start thinking it is "kind" just because it is "less awful than before." It is still an arrogant and inappropriate thing to do at this time.

I do not think he is learning anything about treating you kindly here. I think he is running par for course. Just more arrogant behavior.

You deserve to be treated well. Everyone does. You do not deserve to be treated "at least" like you only get scraps of care and concern and consideration only when convenient.

Again -- could do nothing but maintain lower stresses for you. Just decline to go. Whether he does or not? Let that go as his choice to make.

Save your thoughts about his choices for the counselor.

Galagirl
 
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Whoops... I missed this the last time I came through.

Recently we had a discussion that her having to say no to me is causing her a lot of guilt. She is left feeling that I am not getting enough from her. Which, I tried to explain, is not true I'm happy with the relationship and the amount we see each other and communicate.However, being entirely single besides her as well as having a very limited number of friends that live near me I believe its only natural for me to ask her to hang out frequently. When she says she can't I'm typically fine with it and don't pout, but she thinks its really upsetting me. So this brings up my first question...should I not be so vocal on my desire to see her and let her take more of the lead? I don't want to ask to much of her, but at the same time I want her to know I want to see her.

It's perfectly reasonable and okay to want to spend time with the person you're seeing... why be in a relationship with them otherwise, right? It's not needy to ask. If you're fine with her saying "no" then maybe she just needs some reassurance that you're really okay (maybe she's had experiences in the past where someone's "I'm okay" was less than honest?). Her seeing that you really ARE okay over time should help this a bit, I would think.

However, the flip side of this is that you're going to have to be 100% honest when things are NOT okay. If you're really missing her and want to see her, you should communicate that. That way she can see and experience the differences between your "okay" and "not okay" (or rather, "I'd *like* to see you" versus "I need to see you").
 
We finally we able to meet last night and have a discussion. I let her know my need for more communication and this lead to us having a conversation on us a whole which I wasn't entirely expecting. We talked for a very long time and we were as honest as possible. She expressed that she doesn't really have the time/energy to fulfill my needs as a partner. I can't really be mad at her for this if she doesn't have room for me in that way then she doesn't...there is really nothing I can do about it. But, this being said, neither one of us liked the idea of us being nothing. We enjoy each others company and we enjoy being physical together as well. After continuing to talk we came to the conclusion of being friends with benefits. I think this will ease the pressure of a relationship for her while easing my anxiety about things. We still haven't set the exact boundaries on what this will mean for us but we are giving the week before we meet up again and figure out the "definition." Will this work? I don't know but I would like it to.
 
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