Therapist with Questions

bbrossi

New member
Hi everyone!
My name is Brian and I am a marriage and family therapist who is researching polyamory to expand my understanding of non-monogamous relationships (NMR). Even among clinicians and academics, there are few who have any experience with couples or individuals involved in NMR. I have only met one other person who practices polyamory who was a guest speaker for a class. The type they practice aligns with the definition of the primary + others. I gained some insight from them, but they told me that their prefered method is, as I have learned, one of many possible ways of practicing NMR. They also made a point to tell me that their community does not easily discuss NMR due to fear of sociocultural biases and prejudices they have experienced. My hope is that I can gain insight from this board that will help me to be more competent as a therapist. If any has any thing they think would be helpful for someone in my profession, please let me know.

Thank you
 
Hi Brian, and welcome to the Forum! It is quite encouraging to see a main stream marriage and family therapist taking the time to do this research - kudos! We do have a number of experienced poly folks who regularly participate in this Forum - and who practice varying relationship styles within the polyamory framework. Please feel free to post any specific questions that you may have. Both the General Poly Discussion Forum are the Poly Relationships Corner are reasonably active, and you are very likely to receive some insightful feedback to your queries. The level of intelligent discussion on this Forum has been noted many times. Be do be aware that the values of honesty and integrity in relationships are held in the highest esteem in the poly community. We tend to judge "cheating or adultery" more harshly than monogamists usually do - not that such judgment is a virtue by any means.

My wife asked me to transition our marriage to poly a couple of years back (full story in signature file below) so that she could explore her resurgent feelings for an old college boyfriend. Ultimately, I agreed and we now each have other partners, but do remain in the (perhaps more common) "primary plus others" framework - usually referred to as "heirarchical poly". This is often true of marriages that open up to poly for a number of reasons - often security, but also the pragmatics of children, family, mortgages, etc. (as in our case).

Purists will justifiably argue that "couple privilege" is necessarily inherent in heirarchical poly and to some extent this is undoubtedly true in many (perhaps most) cases. Nevertheless, married couples who transition to poly may need to retain the form of heirarchical poly for pragmatic reasons regardless of the theoretical ideal. In such cases, the primary ethical consideration should focus on ensuring that other partners are treated with equality in terms of the quality of relationship values. Given this, one comes to understand the criticism often leveled upon "unicorn hunters" by the poly community (link to this article for an intelligent and balanced discussion of this too common subject).

https://davidlnoble.livejournal.com/176039.html

While the public impression of poly does often embody that "unicorn mentality" - where the adventurous couple decides to open their marriage by finding the proverbial "hot bi babe" that they can date together, in reality, however, this model is fraught with ethical issues (see referenced article), and is actually the rarest of all poly configurations. MFM V's (not triads) appear to be more common and more stable, and each partner in a marriage each having their own respective partners is the most common of all for married couples who have transitioned to poly.

Well - I had a few minutes - so thought I would share a few thoughts with you as an introduction. Others with more experience can give you lots more insights.

Here is a link to a list of some of the best poly web sites that you might find helpful:

http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=108191

Congrats again on your personal research efforts!

Al
 
Hello Brian! I will second Al's welcome - it IS good to see a mainstream therapist approaching a poly discussion forum for some insight. It is not uncommon for members of the forum to suggest a poster seek a "poly-friendly" therapist to address some of their issues (usually regular relationship problems, honestly) but finding that therapist can be a challenge. Most of us have to "educate" an open-minded therapist that we chose for other reasons.

BUT, there are a LOT more resources available than there were even 5, let alone, 10, 15 or especially 27 years ago (when I tried, in college, to talk to a therapist for the first time - he was really hung up on the bisexual, poly stuff that I was fine with - the problem was that I was taking 24 credits that semester and signed up for a 1/2 dozen extra-curricular activities and was having nightmares).

You may have come across:

EDIT: Google "What Psychology Professionals Should Know About Polyamory" - can't get the link to work

Counseling the Polyamorous Client: Implications
for Competent Practice


And Loving More has (of course) a Seminar:

Understanding Polyamory & Ethical Non-Monogamy:
A therapists guide to working with clients in multi-partnered relationships


An oft-repeated truism is that there are as many ways to "do" poly as there are people doing it. To give you an idea of where you are: you reference Non-Monogamous Relationships (NMR) - to poly people that might seem to include both ethical (CNM - Consensual Non-Monogamy) and non-ethical (cheating) situations. CNM covers a few subsets including Swinging, Religious Polygamy (consensuality questionable to many of us), some flavors of kink (i.e. Hot-Wifing), and Polyamory (which is where you have landed yourself).

Primary+Others is a not uncommon variant of poly but not everyone practices it. There are plenty of "solo poly" folks around. Some Relationship Anarchists.

Personally, we have a KTP (Kitchen Table Poly) type household, and my two LTR (long term relationships) in my mind, are "working toward/approximating co-primary". We are "open" in that any of us are available for other relationships should they develop

You are welcome to read my blog if you would like to see how we got where we are (and a TON of mistakes "we" - I mean I - made along the way). Other blogs can give you other avenues.

I hope you find your time here to be fruitful and worthwhile.

JaneQ
 
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More links in case it helps.

"What Psychology Professionals Should Know About Polyamory"

https://ncsfreedom.org/images/stories/pdfs/KAP/2010_poly_web.pdf

"Models of Open Relationships" by Kathy Lbariola

http://www.kathylabriola.com/articles/models-of-open-relationships

More from Labriola.

http://www.kathylabriola.com/articles

A lot of those are in her book "Love in Abundance : A Counselor's Advice on Open Relationships" by Kathy Labriola

https://www.amazon.com/Love-Abundan...love&qid=1557220150&s=gateway&sr=8-1-fkmrnull

Tristan Taormino

http://openingup.net/resources/free-downloads-from-opening-up/

Anita Wagner Illig

http://practicalpolyamory.com/downloadabledocuments.html

HTH!

Galagirl
 
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Not sure if this is exactly what you're asking but the main issue I've encountered (1st and 2nd hand) with therapists who don't have a "poly friendly" reputation is that they work with the premise that one owes their spouse, co-parent or nesting partner a relationship. It's generally acknowledged that relationships may break down despite the efforts of the people involved but in a NM situation, one should definitely let go of other partners IF they want to be seen as doing "all the can to save the relationship".

A specific example of this was an excellent partner who had a mismatched sex drive with their spouse. Theirs was much lower BUT they were the one who was more interested in remaining polyamorous.

The therapist and the spouse kept suggesting that ending the other relationships would help in terms of increasing opportunity for intimacy with each other whereas my ex felt their spouse had to figure out whether it was a relationship ending incompatibility because coercing her into giving up her other partners would only lead to even less sex due to the discontentment it would cause.

I know my ex felt the therapist saw it as something she was unwilling to do to save the relationship rather than something that was unrelated to the issue driving them apart. She very much felt that the therapist saw opening the relationship as only something one does to make up for holes in the relationship and as she had the lower sex drive and was unable to match her spouse's libido, she didn't have the right to expect non-monogamy.

My only personal experience was with a monogamous partner who invited me to their therapy session years ago. We were simply at an impasse where therapist and partner felt it was unethical to proceed with polyamory if your partner had knowledge but not consent. We were in one of those situations where either or both of us should decide the relationship isn't viable but neither will. I felt my partner had as much responsibility to leave as I did - if not more - as I'd been forthcoming about my relationship structure and they'd agreed. However, both seemed to feel that committing to a relationship essentially meant committing to monogamy if and when your partner requests it.

Don't get me wrong, it wasn't that the therapist was lecturing either me or my friend. It's just that they seemed to work off the premise of what is generally expected and how our actions differed from that mononormative ideology. I remember the therapist asking if I understood why my ex felt "led on" or "betrayed" by me not appeasing her need for monogamy given the future plans we made. I honestly couldn't because I don't think NM negates "future plans" or any of those "future plans" were contingent on monogamy in any way.
 
The type they practice aligns with the definition of the primary + others. I gained some insight from them, but they told me that their prefered method is, as I have learned, one of many possible ways of practicing NMR. They also made a point to tell me that their community does not easily discuss NMR due to fear of sociocultural biases and prejudices they have experienced.

Welcome!
I've been to therapy (not for my NMR but for anxiety) and one of the things that helped me was, I'm so used to adding a disclaimer of "I know it's oout of the norm", "i know it's weird" etc that I did when we were in the "getting to know you" stage. The first thing she did when I added the disclaimer was challenge it. She said "Why is it weird?" She was gentle (which is great for me because while I like people being to the point, being blunt makes me feel backed into a corner); but by her asking me how is it weird or out of the norm...all I could do was be like "well, society has deemed it unacceptable...", and to that she answered "I know that makes it harder to come out, and harder to deal with the sociopolitical, etc aspects...but is it weird for you?" I had to say it wasn't, because it's true. By forcing me to remove the disclaimer, it made me feel like she felt my relations are valid. That any time they came up in any context, she wouldn't act weird about them. It built up a lot of trust very quickly.
As well as learning both their names. Not having to constantly clarify was so nice.

Also, acknowledging and understanding the other aspects of NRM is super important. The legal side for family law and how it affects people with kids, the fact you cannot be legally married to two people (but where I am, your first cousin is okay...), or even technically in a romantic relationship with two or more people, and how, when your love is considered not only not valid, but a crime...that's scary. That means, if anything goes wrong (again, a separation with family law, or ex spouses wanting custody when they shouldn't, or...even a not legally binding marriage being considered law breaking by the government [as is where I live]) means that coming out to family. friends, work, not only has that layer of difficulty about being accepted but actually being in legal trouble depending on who you come out to.
So not only do you experience frustration over not being able to take both spouses to work functions, or family functions (even if they do come, sometimes you have to deflect or be like "nah they're a roommate") but there is a genuine, valid, fear behind it. Job loss, child loss, fines...all are possible.

My experience with people being prejudice is:
My mother-I'm not out to her. I tried to breech the subject by talking about polyamory and how I believe it is valid, as the discussion continued I asked "how would you feel if I was poly?" she said she'd be dissapointed in me [from a parent, a very upsetting thing] and that she'd slit Z's tires. So, that really made things a no go. Am I afraid she'd actually slit his tires, no. Do I think she'd disown me, no. DO I know it would lead to emotional abuse; yes. So, I just continue to let her believe that he is a roommate that I love dearly who will live with us forever. I have even said that when our current cats die, we'd get a cat together. If she isn't gandering on, I'm not helping her.
My father-He'd honestly probably be chill with it, confused by the dynamic, but just want me to be happy. But, same issue with my MIl [below], keeping stuff from his wife isn't fair. As he already knows I'm bi and has hid that.

My MIL- She'd be okay with it. But, we are not okay with forcing her to keep it a secret from my mother. She wants to maintain a positive relationship with my mom. And forcing someone else to bear our secret is not fair to her. So, same deal with my mom. If she doesn't guess, we aren't telling.

My boss-He'd be awkward about it, and because I'm a contractor he can toss me for any reason he wants. I need to pay my mortgage. It's easy to not tell him as we don't talk much.

My coworkers know, my facebook friends...well I don't exactly play on the DL on facebook. But, if they don't understand it they will accidentally invalidate my anger over things and fears over things. The most recent was "if you can't change it why worry about it?" Well, it's not a fear of worrying about what MAY happen, it's a worry about what happens daily to people like me, and the fact that, with one slip up things can get bad.

Also, a helpful thing would be understanding that even relationships in tandem have different dynamics so to speak. No person is the same so no relationship is the same.

Thank YOU for asking!
 
Lots of good resources listed here. People are so helpful.

No one recommended the book Opening Up however, which we always recommend to newbies.
 
No one recommended the book Opening Up however, which we always recommend to newbies.

Seconded! - Opening Up: A Guide to Creating and Sustaining Open Relationships by Tristan Taormino

The author starts by introducing the larger sphere of consensual non-monogamy, and then placing polyamory within that realm, and then goes on to discuss poly in more details, and cover the basics of how to practice ethical polyamory - well written, engaging read. This is the book that many of would recommend for those considering polyamory - especially for married couples (and others in LTR's).

Al
 
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Greetings Brian,
Welcome to our forum. Please feel free to lurk, browse, etc.

In addition to the excellent resources others have recommended, I also suggest:

In addition, have a look around on the various threads and boards on this forum in general. Post and let us know whenever questions arise for you. There is a lot you can learn about poly, you just have to be willing to post and read.

Sincerely,
Kevin T., "official greeter" :)

Notes:

There's a *lot* of good info in Golden Nuggets. Have a look!

Please read through the guidelines if you haven't already.

Note: You needn't read every reply to your posts, especially if someone posts in a disagreeable way. Given the size and scope of the site it's hard not to run into the occasional disagreeable person. Please contact the mods if you do (or if you see any spam), and you can block the person if you want.

If you have any questions about the board itself, please private-message a mod and they'll do their best to help.

Welcome aboard!
 
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