Thorns and Roses

PolyElectric

New member
I just need to download all of this… or is it upload? Anyway, I’m divorced in my mid-thirties and have a child with my ex. Well, she’s not exactly my “ex” anymore. We divorced because things really weren’t working in some ways, but looking back, it was still working in other ways. It was a sex thing. Honestly, I don’t even know how to unpack all that right now, but the simplest way to put it is that she hated how I saw sex as a need. And I always found it frustrating trying to figure out how to initiate desire in her. Add a decade of drama surrounding those issues, and it ended in hurt, rejection, and a kind of avoidance of anything sexual because it was just too much for us to unpack, and we couldn’t see eye to eye on it.

So yeah, that was the bad. The good is that we still love each other, and we do have some level of intimacy - just not in the traditional sense. We don’t have sex anymore. We hold hands, cuddle, kiss, but that’s pretty much it. At this point, I’m not even interested in re-exploring sex with her. I’m happy where we are. We’re great teammates when it comes to raising our child, and that works for us. But I still need sex in my life.

To avoid confusion, I’m going to refer to my ex, who isn’t really an “ex” anymore, as June. And if you haven’t figured it out yet, this is complicated.

So, this is where polyamory comes in. June and I developed a connection based on love and working together to raise our child "Kiddo".

I started seeing my girlfriend, Emma, in 2021, and we got off to a rocky start. The first real issue was a miscommunication about whether we should talk to each other before having sex with other partners. Some stuff went down that made me feel disregarded and honestly made me question Emma’s ethics. I actually posted about it on this website a while ago, and everyone thought I should break up with Emma, but I felt like I shouldn’t judge her too harshly. There’s always more to the story, so I decided to give it a chance.

The thing is, a lot has happened since then, and I just want to get it all out. So here’s my download before I get to the good stuff.

1. There was this one incident where Emma had a threesome with our mutual friend and someone else. I talked to our mutual friend about it because I was upset, and the conversation brought up some feelings about consent and all the drama that came with that. That's the one I posted about on this website but I can't find it.

2. A few months after the first incident, there was another situation where Emma hooked up with a guy from our friend group. He was known for being kind of sleazy, and he was married - though allegedly in an open marriage. Anyway, Emma confided in me that she felt like he came on too strong, and she told me she felt assaulted by him.

I kind of lost my cool and confronted the guy at a party. Alcohol played a role. Long story short, I guess his wife overheard us arguing, and it turned into a problem. Later, his wife massaged Emma on social media saying something like, “We’ll stay out of your life, you stay out of ours.”
Emma was really mad at me for that. It caused a major rift in the friend group, and she didn’t want all the drama. She liked being friends with that couple, and I get that. She called me all sorts of things over it - controlling, among others. But, I don’t know if I agree. I was angry at the guy, worried about Emma, and I guess I just lost control and blew up on him. It was a lot for me to handle, and that’s the best way I can explain it.

3. Another thing I struggled with was feeling manipulated at times. Emma would say things like, “If you stay with me tonight, I won’t go sleep with someone else.” It felt like jealousy-baiting, which, I get, we’re in an open relationship, but it was my first time navigating one, and it was all very confusing. Like, obviously, I wanted to stay with her, and obviously, I’d rather be there with her than thinking about someone else with her all night. But I also had other obligations, so when she would do that it felt kind of cruel.

4. The last thing I’ll mention is that Emma and I used to work together. She was actually my work leader. But it wasn’t just me - she had something going on with another coworker, too. This guy was older, married, and I’m not sure if they ever had sex, but I do know they went skinny dipping on a work trip and had what I would consider an inappropriate, flirty, suggestive relationship. And yeah, he was in a monogamous marriage. So, I guess you could call it an emotional affair.

Anyway, after Emma left the company, I stayed, and now this guy is my boss. He doesn’t know I’m dating Emma or that we live together. We kept it a secret because, when he saw us hanging out more, he started acting jealous, and I didn’t want any drama at work. Then, Emma left the job anyway, so I figured it was just my private business at that point. So yeah, now he’s my boss, and he has no idea that I know about the emotional affair he had with Emma... I’ll just refer to him as “Boss.”

How did I fare in all of this? Honestly, it was the most drama and bullshit I’ve ever dealt with in my life. I mean I cant even go into all of it. At one point, I was practically suicidal because everything was piling up - me and Emma were fighting a lot, and it was just a lot to handle. I’m not trying to blame our fights solely on Emma. I was under a ton of stress, losing sleep, and I definitely did my fair share of lashing out. For a while, I had a really negative view of Emma, even though we were still together.

Just to give you some context about what I struggle with: I struggle with forgiveness and living in the present. If someone hurts me, I tend to ruminate on it, write them off, and never trust them again. So why didn’t I just write Emma off? It’s hard to explain. A lot of the issues were just mistakes, miscommunications, or unfortunate circumstances. There was never hard evidence that Emma tried to hurt me. But the bigger reason I didn’t walk away is because Emma was still my work lead, and I was actually afraid to leave her.

The thing is, I couldn’t afford to lose my job at that time because I had a kid to support, and there weren’t many jobs in my field available. I felt like I had to stay on Emma’s good side. There were also other things about Emma’s personality, like how defensive she could get. She had a tendency to spiral into dark places and threaten to air dirty laundry at work - not directly, but by talking really loud and saying private things. So, I kind of felt like I was walking on eggshells, trying to keep Emma happy so I could keep my job. Anyway, it was this feeling of not being able to leave her that got us through to the next stage of the relationship. And I’m glad it did... Stop shaking your head. I’m getting to the good stuff.
 
Almost...

Later that year, Emma got an HPV diagnosis, and we both kind of freaked out. I couldn’t be diagnosed myself, since there isn’t a test for men, but it’s safe to say I caught it too. Anyway, this is around the time when we sort of hit rock bottom. Emma also left her job around this time, and I think that allowed us to be more honest with our grievances.

A couple of things happened. We both sought therapy separately. I got a better handle on how to bring up my hurt feelings without it always leading to fights. And Emma slowly started changing the way she treated me, apologizing for things that had hurt my feelings. Around that same time, our friend group sort of disbanded. People moved away, and maybe some of the drama I caused created a rift that led to no contact with a lot of those people. I can’t go back and make different decisions, though. Either way, this meant that neither Emma nor I were drinking or partying much anymore, and Emma lost interest in casual sex during that period because of the HPV thing.

Actually, I think Emma worked through some stuff with her therapist and realized that she’s more of a “two-drink kind of girl” - her words, not mine. So she stopped binge drinking alcohol as much, and that was fine by me because, honestly, I don’t even like having more than one drink.

So that's it, that's all the baggage. It feels like ancient history now, most of the time. Things are completely different now. Emma and I have completely reinvented our relationship. But - that’s where we came from, and if I’m being honest, the past still hurts sometimes. For me, it’s not the actions or decisions that still sting, but all the things said during fights. The feeling of being disregarded, the fear of being disregarded again - those are the emotions I still struggle with today. But I try not to bring them up, as my therapist has coached me not to.

Today, Emma and I live together. She’s very attentive to my needs, and I try to be the same. Ultimately, Emma decided she was comfortable with the situation I had going on with June, and they met and became friends. I probably should’ve mentioned this sooner, but they met back in the day, and there was some sex between them, along with a few threesomes, before June and I decided to stop being sexually involved. Anyway, they’re friends now, and they like each other a lot.

Emma and I share a life now. We live together, sort of share finances, and when things got serious between us, Emma said she wanted to go all in with me. She even contributes to expenses related to raising Kiddo, helping with things like daycare, summer camp, and basic necessities. So, I think it’s pretty clear how Emma and I have become indispensable parts of each other’s lives. I’m saying all of this to highlight how giving and caring Emma is. If I’m only speaking for today, and not the past, I feel very good about our relationship. Most of the time.

So, we’ve kind of been living like a mostly monogamous couple. I still have a level of intimacy with June, but we don’t have sex. And Emma has decided she doesn’t want to have sex with other people either. It’s great because, honestly, I have no desire to have sex with anyone but Emma. I’m completely infatuated. Believe it or not, June feels good about it too, because Emma and I think about sex the same way. June is happy that she can be with me without sex being an issue.

When I say Emma and I think about sex the same way, I don’t really know how to describe it. I can only speak for myself, but for me, I feel a physiological need for sex. If I don’t get it at a certain frequency, I can’t think straight. This was always a serious issue in my relationship with June. But with Emma, when I’m in that place, when I’m about to lose it because I want sex so badly, I can just tell Emma that I need affection before I can think or talk about something. And Emma, without fail, tells me to “pull my pants down and takes care of me.” It sounds crude, but it’s just that Emma completely understands the wiring between my brain and my dick. She’s incredibly generous with me in that regard and even anticipates my needs. It’s amazing, and I’m all in for it. I don’t even think about other women. Emma is everything I want and I couldn't ever do any better and wouldn't want to try. I just want what I have now because it’s the most honest and fulfilling sexual relationship I’ve ever had. Emma tells me the same things, best intimacy ever, ect. ect. I just can't actually speak for her so I will focus on my thoughts.

So, with everything being so fantastic, why am I bringing up all that baggage? Well, because I’m still dealing with it. There are quiet moments when I still think about things, and I do struggle with negative thoughts about Emma, even though she’s amazing. There were more things that happened, but I left out anything that no longer bothers me because I didn’t want this to turn into an archive of offenses. The things I’ve gotten over, that I don’t think about anymore, I didn’t mention because they’re forgotten - and that’s exactly where I want them.

Some things I just can’t shake, though - like the whole work situation with “Boss.” Normally it doesn’t matter. I think he’s moved on from Emma, and he and I have a decent, even downright good relationship. But it’s still a bit weird for me sometimes. And yeah, he has no clue that I go home to Emma every day. Also the HPV thing, Emma tested negative on her latest test, and that's great I hope it never comes back. But I cant get that same relief of knowing if I still test positive because I cant be tested. And that feels sort of unfair, and I guess I blame Emma a little bit about that whole thing (internally) even though I know its not correct, I just struggle with that because she was never good about using protection and deep down I wish she would have been better about it.

Anyway, why am I even here talking about all this? Well, Emma, June, Kiddo, and I have been spending a lot of time together lately. And we like it. Not just on special occasions, but even on normal days, we just find ourselves together.

You can probably guess that we’re thinking about moving in together as a polyamorous... unit? I don’t know. But all of us, in a relationship together. There are a lot of benefits for me because I would love to live under the same roof as Kiddo again. And if we pool resources, we could maybe even buy a big house! It’s something that really makes sense to us now, so I thought I’d get all my thoughts together in one place and where better than with other people doing the same!
 
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You and Emma have a long history. I checked your first post from 2021. Good luck. I guess you've worked through some rather large problems in therapy, but still carry scars.
 
Well, if everybody is happy and behaving in emotionally healthy ways now, then there is no problem now.

Although I would think very carefully about all of you living together in one big house. Wouldn't it inhibit your sex life with Emma to share a house with June and Kiddo? Might June not appreciate knowing, through close daily living, how often you and Emma engage in sexual activity? Especially as Kiddo gets older, won't it be harder to sneak off frequently to have sex where no one can hear you?

Just speaking as someone for whom sex is also a physiological need (and I'm loud when I have it), I wouldn't choose to live with a partner in a house with a child OR with a metamour if I could help it. But, obviously I don't have my own children, so I am thinking more from Emma's possible perspective.

I mean, not that having a high sex drive means you should live separately from your child (or inflict all child caretaking labor onto the other parent), of course. Just that it sounds like you all have a good situation going where all of you are happy. And living together might mess that up significantly.

What about two small houses next door to each other, or something like that?

(But I'm a person who needs a lot of space and privacy, so poly living has always sounded dreadful to me).

Anyway, you might want to think about referring to June as your platonic partner, or asexual romantic partner, or simply as one of your two life partners (who you happen to not be sexual with), etc. Just some ideas since "ex" doesn't do it justice.
 
Oh, well. Now I have read your past post, in which I was one of the people who advised you to break up with Emma.

Emma previously had a problem with violating people's consent during sex, including your own. Has she reckoned with that behavior? Have you?

It sounds like Emma has made an effort to change, been to therapy, and reduced her drinking. If she's no longer hurting other people with her behavior, that's a significant change. But if she hasn't really reflected on how she hurt people, hasn't taken responsibility and owned her behavior, it's not good enough yet.

And since it's been barely 4 years, that's not a lot of time in an adult life to see if the change is permanent.

I would reiterate not moving in with June and Kiddo at this point.
 
Have we reckoned with it? Yeah, I think so. It's complicated, because back then when it was happening, she told me she didn't regret it. But later she told me that she was just broken, and that she regretted it all along, but it's like she couldn't admit it because she was defensive and struggling with her self-esteem.

If I asked her today, I know she would say she totally regrets hurting everyone. But part of trying to have a healthy relationship is me getting over it, so I try not to bring it up. When I am ruminating about it, I have found that I need reassurance, so I usually just ask for reassurance that she will be considerate of me, but I don't bring up what she did.

Emma is going to therapy, not pursuing casual sex, and controlling alcohol consumption. Isn't that reckoning with it? I mean, if she wanted to, she could still be out there, getting into the same shitty situations. But she is totally not doing that anymore.

If we broke up and she was single again, would she go right back to her old ways? I honestly don't know. I could see it going either way. I'm not naive. But if she has been treating me the way I want to be treated for the past few years, and she is treating me well now, I really try my hardest to live in the present, and not dwell on the past, even though I am not completely over it. Scars, for sure, and it still hurts. I do struggle with it, but I think we are on a trajectory towards a healthy relationship.

Owning the behavior & taking responsibility? I don't know. It's interesting you bring that up, because my therapy was all about doing just that. But Emma's therapy wasn't like that. My therapist told me they have different approaches for men and women, and that for women therapy is more about emotional support and self-acceptance.

That kind of bugged me, because I noticed that she didn't really take responsibility. But I had to let it go and just accept it's a different therapy process for her. I do think she takes responsibility for it, deep down, because once when she was really upset and crying, she talked about it in a way where she did blame herself. But I think it's just too painful for her, so she doesn't like talking about it. And you know, it's not my job to poke and prod her about mistakes she's made in the past, so I try not to bring up the aspects of that incident that had nothing to do with me...

Anyway, so you don't think we should move in together. Okay, but you haven't really seen the change with your own eyes, like I have. But thank you for the response. I mean, I already have enough trouble with how I feel about her. It would be nice if everyone would not just assume she is a bad person. I already go through this IRL, with people being like, "Oh yeah, Emma, she's crazy!" Honestly, she's become so healthy. We eat well, exercise and go on hikes. No drugs, very little alcohol. I'm just constantly like: dude, she isn't the way she used to be.

But yeah, sometimes it's embarrassing for me to have to deal with people's judgements about her. And I feel judged for being with her sometimes. But it's just because no one believes people ever change. And yeah, I have my days where I wonder. So maybe they are right. But what I see in front of me is someone who is really quite healthy. I mean, she holds a steady job, she has had two promotions in the last few years. Believe it or not, Emma is extremely intelligent and well respected in her field. People that didn't know her back then would NEVER expect the stuff that went down.

But yeah, not the healthiest relationship with sex. But you know, I don't think anyone here would say I have the healthiest relationship with sex either. My relationship with sex is not June's cup of tea, that's for sure. So maybe Emma and I are just perfectly flawed for each other. And if it's her questionable boundaries with sex that make her so eager to jump my bones, how can I complain? I mean, maybe the past hurts just comes with the territory.

June is the exact opposite with sex. June has never had sex outside a relationship, never had a one-night stand. She is very very picky when it comes to sex, and believe it or not, I actually love that about her personality. Yet, I am the one who is completely incompatible with it!
 
Just a reminder that this is a blog thread. According to our Guidelines:

The Life stories and blogs section is for sharing poly experiences in a safe place. No arguing, criticism, or uninvited advice-giving is permitted in these threads.

It's up to PolyElectric to let us know if he'd like feedback/constructive criticism or not here.
 
Bring it on! I need a reality check sometimes. That’s why I’m here. When I responded yesterday I only saw MeeraReed’s second post. Now that I read the first post as well, I understand there were also considerations suggested other than Emma’s past to consider with the whole moving in thing, so sorry if I responded too defensively.
 
People can and do change. I did. I am not the same crazy, screwed-up person I once was and it would be a huge shame to be constantly judged on my past. We’re not born knowing how to run healthy relationships, and often our family of origin never models that for us, or trauma throws us off the rails, so we do make mistakes before we learn. Despite the past, kudos to Emma for having grown, changed, and working hard through therapy to becoming the person you love and who loves you today. We on this forum can only comment - influenced by our own personal life experiences. Only you will really know how genuine and committed she is.

Please remember, don't live in the past. You can’t change it. Live and stay in the present. “Worry doesn't prevent tomorrow’s sorrow, it only robs today of its joy.” Each day is a gift.

If you're thinking of all living together in the future, try some trial periods of living together first. Long weekends; a week on-- a week off; extending the periods, before you commit and give up your current home. Pace it practically, rather than speculate and see how it goes, so that when you do make that move, you know the ground. All we can ever do is take reasonable care and plan with practical steps and a commitment to communication. Good luck.
 
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