thoughts and mixed feelings

tenK

New member
I think she's playing games too. The difficult thing is that she is playing games with HIM, and not you. I would ask him not to give me any more updates about her, her husband, any of it, unless he decides to pursue a relationship beyond friendship with her. It must be exhausting for you. :(

I hope you get some good things out of the more than two book. Nina and I found it really helpful as well. In fact, there are good chapters that you both might find useful on how to manage relationships between metamours, even when those people are very different. Hang in there!
 

kdt26417

Official Greeter
Staff member
There's no shortage of drama with V, is there? :mad:

Re (from clalb):
"I can't somehow make different quotes out of one text. If anyone out there could give me some tips on how to do it, I would appreciate it."

I always quote by using {QUOTE} and {/QUOTE} (with square brackets [ ] instead of curly brackets { }). I use copy and paste (Ctrl+C and Ctrl+V) to put what I want to quote between the bracketed QUOTE and /QUOTE.

Sometimes I preface a quote with a username and a link, which is a complicated process but I can describe it to you if you want.
 

GalaGirl

Well-known member
He could tell other people besides you his unfolding drama. Tell him to stop updating you. And if he does not, the consequence is that you block his number so you are not getting texts and things.

His stuff is for him to deal with. Stop "leaking" his problems with his cheating gf over on to you. He said both relationships are detached from each other right? So he could keep it Detached then. He could exercise some self control so his talk and his actions match.

Galagirl
 
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clalb

New member
I always quote by using {QUOTE} and {/QUOTE} (with square brackets [ ] instead of curly brackets { }). I use copy and paste (Ctrl+C and Ctrl+V) to put what I want to quote between the bracketed QUOTE and /QUOTE.

Sometimes I preface a quote with a username and a link, which is a complicated process but I can describe it to you if you want.

Thanks, let´s see if that works. I´ve been trying to use the "multiple quote" buttom or something like that and it wasn´t working. :) (it does works, thanks! :) )

I would ask him not to give me any more updates about her, her husband, any of it, unless he decides to pursue a relationship beyond friendship with her. It must be exhausting for you.

His stuff is for him to deal with. Stop "leaking" his problems with his cheating gf over on to you. He said both relationships are detached from each other right? So he could keep it Detached then. He could exercise some self control so his talk and his actions match.

I think you both are right. I should set my boundaries there. It´s been exhausting and doing me no good.

But it´s not only his fault. I said I was there to listen and I even wanted to - as if I don´t, I tend to fantazise and give things a more negative view than might be needed. I feel like when I know what´s going on, I can handle the situation better.

It might also be some remaining of me thinking that if I know what´s going on, I might be able to control the situation - which I, rationaly, know I´m not. I´m trying to let go of this need to "control" situations (even before the whole drama story with V. began).

Last evening he only wrote me she has to talk to her BF to see how they´ll figure things out and she and A. will not be in touch. I asked if that´s all he wanted to share and he said yes. I still said that if this talk with her BF would mean anything would change on her decision about "not sharing him", he should let me know. And he just said: "please, C., I really mean it, I don´t want to talk about it. I´m done with this."

I think she's playing games too. The difficult thing is that she is playing games with HIM, and not you.
What is really sad is that I start questioning all the relationship as he goes into her gaming. So much drama.

But talking to you guys has been giving me more strength and balance...
 

clalb

New member
Update. A. sent me the last message he got from V., something like that:

"we had a hard, but very good talk yesterday. No shouting, only reason, absolute honesty and mutual affection. Now it's gone, gone, never again. I do not know whether that's good. We both do not want to give up this relationship but there´s no way to continue it. That´s how life is."

He doesn´t want to talk about it anymore and he is very sad that he lost her.

I understand that, and I´m sorry to see him suffer. But I also have my needs and some stuff I want to discuss about the relationship...what to do know? Do I have to back up and wait till he gets his shit together? Should I demand that we do see each other as usual? Argh.

I WANNA DELETE IT; BUT I CANT. APPARENTLY; A. got it all wrong and she and the BF broke up. I won´t update until I know what´s going on. I might be out of of this relationship, this is driving me nuts. :(
 
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kdt26417

Official Greeter
Staff member
Wow -- it sounds like there's a lot of confusion there. I don't blame you for getting tired of it!
 

clalb

New member
Wow -- it sounds like there's a lot of confusion there. I don't blame you for getting tired of it!

Yeah, I know. I even wrote A. a letter saying I´d get out of the boat.

I did talked to my therapist yesterday who suggested I had to end my relationship with THEM - until they figure things out, for sure -, as most of you suggested, and not with HIM. As I still love him and do believe in our relationship.

I haven´t handled him the letter I wrote, but we´ll meet tonight and I´ll tell him how this rollercoaster of emotions is doing me no good and that I don´t want to hear it all - unless he decides to be with her and no longer with me. Or they do decide to pursue their relationship and if that implies she would be moving over, then we should all three talk about it, as we´ve been being primary partners and seeing each other very often, so we have to see how we could fit someone else in the same city, how this could work for all three of us. But that´s something to think about IF that happens. Right now, I should just back off - as they can´t.

I need to eat and work and take care of myself. I want poly to be trustful and beautiful and not to make me sick.
 
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Nadya

Member
I am so sorry you ended up in this situation.
Right now, I should just back off - as they can´t.

I need to eat and work and take care of myself. I want poly to be trustful and beautiful and not to make me sick.
These are wise words. You need to take care of you first and you deserve loving and supporting people around you - not this mess and emotional roller coaster. Stick to what you know is good for you!

Hang in there!
 

GalaGirl

Well-known member
I am sorry the mess continues. :(

Yes... back off. Take care of YOU. Get out of the splash zone. Then see what is what later, or if you prefer staying out.

Galagirl
 

clalb

New member
Thanks, guys. I´ll let you know how the talk goes.

I will back off from THEIR relationship till they figure it out and try to stick to mine with him... let´s see how it goes.
 

kdt26417

Official Greeter
Staff member
@ clalb ... yeah that's a good idea, take a step back at least temporarily, have A get back to you when he gets his V stuff figured out.
 

clalb

New member
It´s hard. We did met yesterday and A. told me V. is open to give it a try. She likes him so much she wants to try it. Still, she won´t talk to me, not even chat, to see what our expectations/boundaries are. I don´t think that´s the right way to handle it and A. also said he thinks it would be nice if the three of us would talk (he told her that), but he won´t pressure if she doesn´t want to.

A few weeks back I told A. I would really like to have him around on the 17th-19th July weekend, as my parents will leave town after some weeks visiting and go back to my home country. It´s mostly a hard time when they´re gone and my daughter will be spending vacations with her dad. He said, sure, no problem.

Then yesterday he forgot about that and said he would go to some sort of competition in Belgium. And V. would also go, as well. I told him about what I told him weeks ago. He was like: yeah, you´re right, sorry, I´ll be here for you. I´ll go visit her after that. It ends up that she was upset when he told her that and said she´s not available in the week after (when he was planning to go down to Italy). The thing is, now he´s asking how he could make things up for me if he goes, like spending more time together the week before and the week after. He wants to go - and he probably will.

I´m really upset. It´s not only any other weekend, it´s a very hard time for me - that´s why I told him I wanted him to be around, even before knowing about anything. He says there´s nothing wrong with it, it´s just that they live so far away and that would be a good oportunity...

I feel hurt. Maybe because I think I should be the priority, because we had plans - and I think if it was just plans in a usual weekend, I´d be okay. Maybe not, but I think I would. Also, because I think that´s V again playing her games, you know? Like: "Oh, what? You´re not coming? You can´t come visit, I won´t see you". But that´s my mind going further than it should...

Am I overreacting?

At this point, I´m not even sure if I can really do poly...:(
 
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GalaGirl

Well-known member
I don't think you are overreacting. I think you see things clearly enough.

  • V only wants to do it to gain access to him. Not because she wants to poly.
  • A wants to blow your thing off on the 19th with your blessing.
  • You don't like these behaviors. (On top of many others)

I think you cannot do poly with these people. With others, perhaps, but not these people. I think you are in a process where you are slowly coming to terms with that.

It may mean you let A go so you can be free of these behaviors. And you aren't loving that option. :(

Galagirl
 

kdt26417

Official Greeter
Staff member
It seems to me that A doesn't consider you a priority. :( As for V, I think she's just doing whatever she has to do to get her foot in the door. :mad:
 

clalb

New member
V only wants to do it to gain access to him. Not because she wants to poly.
A wants to blow your thing off on the 19th with your blessing.
You don't like these behaviors. (On top of many others)

I think you cannot do poly with these people. With others, perhaps, but not these people. I think you are in a process where you are slowly coming to terms with that.

It may mean you let A go so you can be free of these behaviors. And you aren't loving that option.

GalaGirl, I always love how you can point things so clearly out of what has been written.

I made it very clear how disappointed, hurt and sad I am that he wasn´t sticking to the plans to be around when I need him - and explicit asked him to do so, and I don´t usually do that. He realizes that, apoligized several times and said, like 1000 times, he wants to and will make things up to me. But he did book his flight. He is going.

He says I am his priority and this would be an argument we´d have even if we were doing monogamy - and I totally agree to that - as he wants to go to this race. But, as Kevin said, I don´t think I am his priority: he is his priority. Which is right, but still hard.

Funny thing is S. wrote me, he is Tanzania working right now and will fly back to the US on the 17th. He´s a stopover in Europe and could maybe extend that for a night, so we could see each other and spend a couple of days together - exactly on the days I needed A. to be around. I don´t want to get too excited about this possibility as it´s just a small possibility that might happen, but only the thought of it makes me chuckle and I get butterflies in my stomach.

I still don´t feel secure about V.. I haven´t been hearing about her and their relationship and I guess that´s good. I have to take my focus out of them. Still I think for things to work out, we should talk and set boundaries, talk about logistics and stuff. But I also know I can´t do anything about it... I know he likes her, but I don´t like the way she deals with everything regarding our relationship and her relationships. So I secretly wish she´d be out sometime very soon. And I hate me for doing that. That´s the first time I even admit it. :(

I´m giving it a try. But I´m in a process of setting my OWN boundaries.
 

GalaGirl

Well-known member
I'm sorry. I see how you hurt. I'm just not sure how to help you. :(

I don't want to cope - even indirectly - with something that is disrespectful. But I do love A. and want to be with him.

Is it disrespectful to you when he promises to be somewhere and then blows you off and wants you to be ok with that? :confused:

Here you seem to be talking about V.

I think for things to work out, we should talk and set boundaries, talk about logistics and stuff. But I also know I can´t do anything about it... I know he likes her, but I don´t like the way she deals with everything regarding our relationship and her relationships

I wonder if you really mean A. I quote just to visually block it off. Blue is mine.

I think for things to work out, (A and I) should talk and set boundaries, talk about logistics and stuff. But I also know I can´t do anything about (his behaviors) ... I know he likes her, but I don't like the way he deals with everything regarding his relationship with me and his relationship with her.

If you do mean A.... how are you helping you be free of shenanigans when you stick around trying to talk to him some more asking him to control himself and his behaviors? You seem to recognize you cannot control his behavior and he does not care to.

He talks good game, but doesn't follow through on his word. He doesn't exercise self control. You still stick around. That works for him.

It is not nice and it is not fun, and you do not deserve that treatment. But in your behavior... you are still there. That is the only part I can see that you can control and change. :(

You are not yet willing to leave and love A from a distance because his love is disrespectful/hurtful to you up close.

How is that you treating you with respect? Since you want no part of disrespect? :confused:

So I secretly wish she´d be out sometime very soon. And I hate me for doing that. That´s the first time I even admit it.

You'd still be stuck with A -- the person who behaves poorly toward you. Her leaving would't change any of that.

I´m giving it a try. But I´m in a process of setting my OWN boundaries.

With who? Yourself? You are trying set boundaries for you to follow so you can be healthy? :confused:

How can people help you? What's your desired outcome?

Galagirl
 
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clalb

New member
Is it disrespectful to you when he promises to be somewhere and then blows you off and wants you to be ok with that?
Yeah, I feel like it is. But I don´t know if I´m overreacting. I also left him in a time he needed me to meet S. But I have to say: tickets were already booked and then something come out and I said I´d canceled my ticket. He said, no, I should go, I´d still be around when he actually needed me more. Which was true. It was still a tough call for me, but I ended up going to see S. and came back in time to be with A. all the time he needed me. So I´m trying to think I should be okay with it this time, but I won´t do it again. I told him that.

I guess what I meant was, with green marks:

Still I think for things to work out for all of us three involved, we should talk and set boundaries, talk about logistics and stuff, how often they´re planing on seeing each other, also to see if that works for me. But I also know I can´t do anything about it as she does not agree in talking to me - and by that I mean, the three of us talking/chating together ... I know he likes her, but I don´t like the way she deals with everything regarding our relationship (mine and A.´s, as she ignores it) and her relationships (with the now ex-BF, as she cheated, and also about all the drama, not doing it, doing it, calling A. name´s when she first said she was out). So I secretly wish she´d be out sometime very soon. And I hate me for doing that. That´s the first time I even admit it.

I know he likes her, but I don't like the way he deals with everything regarding his relationship with me and his relationship with her.
But you´re right. I do not like the way he´s been dealing with things. I have this feeling he´s protecting her.

You'd still be stuck with A -- the person who behaves poorly toward you. Her leaving would't change any of that.
I always thought he did treat me right and was respectful. I Know he is selfish, but... I was trying to think that if he wants to do his thing, he should and not be around just because he said he would. Maybe I´m just trying to find a way to justify his actions and not to leave him?

With who? Yourself? You are trying set boundaries for you to follow so you can be healthy?
:( I´m trying to set the boundaries/limits of how much I can handle. Because, as you said, I do love him, and I always thought we have a great relationship together. I keep thinking I´m overreacting...that´s way I´ve been writing in here. To try to get my toughts straight and hear what you, that have been doing poly for a longer time, could tell me - and not the biased opinion of my monogamous friends and family. I´m trying to get clear what is that I´m still biased from socialization and what is actually not a nice behaviour - in poly or mono.

Trying to think straight, here are some points:

+

- He´s been talking more about feelings and how important I am to him. That he doesn´t want to hurt me nor loose me.
- He said he doesn´t want to leave me and if he had to make this choice, even if he likes her, he wouldn´t leave me - he actually told her that.
- We get along really well, have a lot of similar interests.
- We have great sex.
- He gaves me so much freedom. He´s respectful and never jealous toward my relationships/flings.
- He now says he thinks the three of us should talk together...BUT:

-
- He is protecting her in the "she doesn´t want to talk and maybe she never will". Even though it is really important for me. Even though I think it is important for a poly relationship to work - am I romanticizing it? It´s never like that?
- He gets angry if I start talking about their relationship and trying to understand the rush: it seems like a rush to me. They barely know each other, although they´ve been in intense contact for the last 4 weeks. Say they´re together? That´s too much, imo.
- He knew he'd hurt me by going to this race. And he did it. He booked his flight - I know he wants to make it up to me, but, he won´t be there the days I wanted him to be around. I won´t be alone, I have a lot of friends; maybe I´ll end up meeting S. - and that would be lovely. But, still.

Trying to think of other things, I might edit it later or write more.

Am I in denial? :confused::(
 
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LizziE

New member
You're not in denial.

One of my most helpful books is called Too Good To Leave, Too Bad to Stay:

http://www.amazon.com/Good-Leave-St...-1&keywords=too+bad+to+stay+too+good+to+leave

It talks about the problems with adding up +s & -s to a relationship, and talks, step by step, through different problems. I would recommend it a lot.

I really need to go back and read it again myself.

If I were you, I think I'd write V a note.

Dear V,

Initially you said you would stay with me for tough weekend. Rescinding that to go on vacation with S is extremely hurtful to me. It shows me that your actions to do not match your words. If you don't want to hurt me, then you should keep your promise to me.

I am not sure if you are going to loose me. Knowing that you will leave me to deal with an emotionally painful situation by myself (after promising to be here for me), in order to vacation with S, shows me a lot about what the future including S looks like. I'm not sure if this is a future I can live with.

If you would be willing to honor your promise to me, and stay with me like you said you would, it would go a long way towards showing me that you will honor your word to me, and be an emotionally supportive partner to me.

For now, I am going to assume that you are breaking your promise to me. I will decide if I want to be in a future where that is something that happens. I will let you know what I decide, once I've made up my mind.



******

Just my .02. I freely admit that my own current situation colors my opinions, but that said, I know myself well enough that I would have the same opinion that I do right now. I just wouldn't have it quite as strongly, if that makes sense.
 

GalaGirl

Well-known member
If it were me I would organize those like this :


PLUS
  • We have a lot of similar interests.
  • We have great sex.

The rest are minus to me. Mostly in the genre of "talk good game, but don't actually deliver."

MINUS
  • He´s been talking more about feelings and how important I am to him. That he doesn´t want to hurt me nor loose me.
    • I identify this as pretty talk. I notice his behavior does not back up his talk.
  • He said he doesn´t want to leave me and if he had to make this choice, even if he likes her, he wouldn´t leave me - he actually told her that.
    • He SAYS he told her that. She won't talk to you. You cannot verify.

      [*]You are not asking him to choose, nor are you leaving the boat even though you said you would. So he can keep on talking good game without ever actually having to make the choice.
  • He now says he thinks the three of us should talk together...BUT...
    • (Where is action to back that up? He's not setting it up. Instead he seems to be blame shifting like he cannot set it up because she does not want to. His hands are tied, you see. It's all her fault.

      [*]I think he will say whatever to avoiding responsibility/accountability. If his agreements with you are his #1 priority, and he tried to set up a talk and she declines? She is allowed to do that. Then as hinge he could choose to let her go. Because she's not compatible so he can keep agreements with ALL his partners. In the end...Who is the one picking incompatible her out? Him.

      [*]Who picks him? You. Your problem is that you keep picking him when he keeps doing behaviors you do not like.
  • He is protecting her in the "she doesn´t want to talk and maybe she never will".
    • I don't think he's protecting her as much as protecting himself from having to make choices. He's happy floating along since both of you remain present that way.
      [*]Why are you staying in a V that will not offer you communication level you want in your polyships? Keep picking a partner that does not prioritize you?
  • He gets angry if I start talking about their relationship and trying to understand the rush: it seems like a rush to me. They barely know each other, although they´ve been in intense contact for the last 4 weeks. Say they´re together? That´s too much, imo.
    • It is BOTH a rush AND he says they are together. Stop being in denial -- they are together. The bottom line is that you are in a V with him and his cheater GF. You want to be in this or not? Not. So could choose to get out.
  • He knew he'd hurt me by going to this race. And he did it. He booked his flight.
    • So he hurts you. And you keep picking him and stick around?)

UNCERTAIN, BUT LEANING TO MINUS

  • He gaves me so much freedom. He´s respectful and never jealous toward my relationships/flings. (You acknowledge that he's selfish. If he thinks he is the "king" and nobody could compete with him, it's easy to be "generous" like this.)


I always thought he did treat me right and was respectful. I Know he is selfish, but... I was trying to think that if he wants to do his thing, he should and not be around just because he said he would. Maybe I´m just trying to find a way to justify his actions and not to leave him?

Yes. I think you are in the bargaining stage of the grief process.

Because if he did not want to do it, he could say "no" in there first place. Not say "yes" and then "no" later when "something better" comes along. He says he forgot, which might be true. But rather than keep his word he's choosing to go do his trip because he like that better. Since he's selfish, he's always going to please himself first.

I think you know this, and don't want to know it. YKWIM?


I´m trying to set the boundaries/limits of how much I can handle.

Wasn't the boundary "Don't disresepct me or other people. I want no part of that, directly or indirectly. Do it, and I leave."

What happened to

I even wrote A. a letter saying I´d get out of the boat.

:confused:

Am I in denial?

Yes, I think so. You are in denial that they are involved and not splitting up. And despite not liking this situation, you don't want to follow the reasonable boundary you set above in green. You are still choosing to stay in the boat.

You have inner conflict.

(I want to love him)

vs

(I want to be free of his disrespectful behavior. When he behaves like that I love him less and less the more it goes on.)

He's not changing behaviors any. He just wants you to suck it up. Packaged in pretty language. I could be wrong, but that's the vibe I'm getting. He'll sing whatever pretty song so long as you keep on staying there in the boat. :(

I think the best path for you is to break up with him. Let it be over. Get out of the boat.

  • He does not in fact, make your agreements a priority. He just talks pretty.
  • He does things you don't like and treats you in ways you do not like.

Some great sex and some things in common is not enough to off set that. :( To me anyway. You have to make your own call about it.


YOUR CHOICES AT THIS TIME

I can't see any others but these: Leave or stay.

If it were me I would follow through on your letter that you'd be leaving the boat. Leave.

I do not suggest you stay. It's a choice...but not a healthy sounding one to me. Trying to make a V thing work with a woman who isn't into poly really that cheats on her other partner, and a man who talks good game but is selfish and in the end will just pick what is handiest/most pleasing for him in the moment. :(

I know it is not fun and things are hard but I think you pretty much have to either follow through on your letter about getting off the boat. Otherwise you are teaching him that your word means nothing really. You say a lot of stuff but in the end you stay no matter how he behaves. So he can continue to ride roughshod over you doing whatever. :(

Galagirl
 
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tenK

New member
- He is protecting her in the "she doesn´t want to talk and maybe she never will". Even though it is really important for me. Even though I think it is important for a poly relationship to work - am I romanticizing it? It´s never like that?

In terms of pure functionality, it *can* work without you and her having to meet, and without the three of you sitting around to discuss boundaries/limits. So maybe you are romanticising that aspect, yes. Ask yourself why it is important to you. Is it because you don't trust him to fairly represent you and his relationship needs to her? Is it because you feel like her participation in a discussion involving you would be a sign of her acceptance of your role in his life? Is it because you want a say in how their relationship is defined and managed? What is it specifically that makes a three way discussion important for each of your separate relationships with him to work?

It may simply be that you worry he does not have the skills to make it work by speaking to you each in turn. What it requires is that he be an excellent communicator, and truly understand the needs of both of his relationships, and then to be able to figure out the compromises he needs to ask of you each on his own, and then negotiate to make it work. It is hard work being the middle-man or the go-between, but if that's the only option she's leaving him, and he's happy with that then I think you need to embrace it and/or help him learn the skills he needs. Make sure he is in no doubt about what your relationship needs to thrive (less of this breaking plans/flakiness for starters!) and let him worry about what his and her relationship needs.
 
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