Three LDR Neurodiverse Trans Girls

[darcyisverycute]

Hi. I'm a 22 yo trans girl with ASD (autism). Little long intro here, hope you all don't mind. Any thoughts and advice, would be very appreciated.

I have been in a long distance relationship with T (26 yo with ADHD), with monogamous pretense, for two years. She lives in the US and I live in Australia, for the first year we spent about 4-5 hours together in voice/video chat each day. She gradually broke down some crazy sexual-isolating cultural inertia I had, eventually becoming a (mostly) happy sexual relationship. ~7 months ago, I was able to finally move interstate out of an unaccepting household, start transitioning with hrt (feminising hormones) and wearing dresses in Sydney - I had been waiting a decade for the right time to transition.

My life has improved dramatically since then, although the first week especially, T was very lonely, I had just moved to this new city with lots of things to do, and we had grown needy for each other. After this first week it stabilized, but I do recognise I have since then still been rather a lot more needy than her. Especially considering this is my first relationship. Since then, we spend roughly 0-2 hours together each day in voice chat, often leaving messages for each other when we wake up, and contributing to long-term documents managing our difficulties in all aspects of life. We have been trying to work on one unhealthy aspect recently- my mood is often highly correlated with the amount of time I spend with her that day - no time and I'm miserable.

~4 months ago T discovered they were a trans girl like me. Via informed consent clinics (ie: planned parenthood), she was able to start hrt straight away. During that first period, she made some temporary distance between me to reflect on gender and sexuality and poly. She was able to see, as male-presenting that she could not imagine a non-monogamous future, let alone any future without me. As a woman she is able to (now quite easily) imagine her happiness in non-monogamous relationships. Her first exposure with poly, I think was about 18 months ago, and she apparently has been learning about it independently of me since then (I didn't know).

A month after I moved to Sydney, T shared all of her accounts (email account, etc) with me. 3 months later I reciprocated.

One week ago, in a youtube comment thread, I was encouraging T to flirt with someone else (M) - 52 yo trans girl with ADHD also - as I could see they were enjoying it.
It went very well, next day they are in discord flirting, the next day we are in a three-way (very sexual) discord chat. It's at this point I felt like (although I realised only later) I was in poly under duress. It went okay for an hour, then, and since then, I have been having near-constant mental breakdowns. This is what T thinks and has repeated to me many times: "main feeling at the moment is regret that did not more thoroughly consider darcy's readiness for trying poly."

I have been trying to learn from all the resources I can find on my own. I have had no prior experience with polyamory, literary or anecdotal, I know T's experience is only literary, I'm not sure about M.
I've listened a third of these podcasts: https://lessthan83-podcast.pinecast.co/
I've been reading on this website: https://www.morethantwo.com/
I started reading "The Ethical Slut", third edition. Some research papers too.
I've spent some time on the poly subreddit, and of course reading on this forum.
I haven't been doing anything else the past week.

Both T and M seem, to me at least, to have a lot of social knowledge - poly especially. My age difference combined with my ASD results in me not understanding substantial parts of their relationship. It has also resulted in an enormous power imbalance.

They have both been trying to help me. Yesterday M gave me a counselling-session of sorts, that felt like, I was in a drug addiction recovery clinic. Repeating to myself in the mirror until I cry, "You are loved, not if, or when" has helped a lot. M said that, my feeling of love for T is gone because I have forgot how to love myself. T understands poly, apparently very well, but is not so good at putting that knowledge into beneficial action for me. That part has not been going well.

Combine this LDR with covid. I was originally planning to live with T a year ago. Now, with a ~7-month lockdown in Melbourne, moving into a ~5-month lockdown in Sydney, the absolute soonest I may see T in person in the US is in 4-5 months for work-related reasons. I have never had physical intimacy with anyone. I have never been good at dating, (although, to be fair, I haven't had much practice). I cannot recall a time I ever touched anyone, except for on their hands. I am believing now, that I will never have this physical intimacy with anyone. This is killing me. Obviously I have other insecurities too, but this is by far the biggest one at the moment.

T told me, after a lot of deliberation on her own I think, that she is willing to let go of M entirely, or just romantically, if that is what I need. But, she established she does need to have another ADHD trans girl she can talk to. And those are pretty difficult to find. It's not clear to me, how essential it is to T, that she continues to embrace the romantic spark with M specifically. Especially considering the incredible rapport she has built in a short time with M, arguably having better rapport with M in two days than with me in two years due to their similar life experiences.

I'm not sure what to do. My closest friend for relationship advice, in response to parts of this situation, has decided to stop supporting me. The last five days I have had mental breakdowns, uncontrollably shaking and crying and so many suicidal thoughts. Maybe I can find someone else to date, alongside T, but I am so awful at flirting, and covid...

I can't imagine any path forward. I am really struggling.
I appreciate any advice.

 

[Evie]

First of all, 1800 011 511 is your state mental health support line. 13 11 14 is your national one.

Most of our helpful regulars are American, so they'll be along when they wake up

Secondly, well done on doing the research. You're learning and that's great, it's possible that what you're learning may not come to fruition as soon as you'd like/hope, but it will in time if you keep at it.

I'd also like to suggest that you learn a little about jealousy vs. envy and their relationship to lack. Try this video.

Right now, you lack proximity to T. Hell, I get it, I'm in NZ and I have a partner in the States too. I lack his touch and have had pangs of envy when I know he's with his local partners.

You've exacerbated the issue by catastrophizing:

I am believing now, that I will never have this physical intimacy with anyone.

This is a fear, not an actual reality. I actually think you'll look back on this fear in years to come and laugh at your younger self. Your sexual/physical intimacy life will begin. With Covid, not in the timeframe any of us long distance relationshippers imagined, but the borders won't stay shut forever. And then there's all the people you have yet to meet in Sydney! Damn girl, post lockdown get out there and enjoy your new city (Sydney is by far my favourite over Melbourne).

Flirting is just a skill, just like essay writing or maths or knitting or skateboarding or whatever you identify with on that front. You can learn and get better at it, and it's probably not quite what you imagine. Think of it as giving another person a chance to be authentically seen and heard, while encouraging them to have a fun time.

As for T and M, their relationship, whatever form it takes, is not a threat to your relationship with T. Poly is actually quite the opposite of that. Serial monogamists will dump one partner for the next. Poly people don't tend to do that. If a relationship ends, it's because of something within that relationship, not because someone else came along.

Remember to check back in the morning when there is likely to be more replies.

 

[kdt26417]

Greetings darcyisverycute,
Welcome to our forum. Please feel free to lurk, browse, etc.

I think the key thing for now, is getting some practice at flirting. It will probably be awkward at first, but your self-confidence will improve, and it will get easier. I suppose it's possible T and M could break up but still remain friends, but maybe you would hate it even if M was just a friend. I am reluctant to suggest for T to cut off all contact with M, because as you said, an ADHD trans girl is hard to find. Plus what if T did find another ADHD trans girl? She might fall in love with her, and you might get traumatically jealous all over again. I think the LDR, combined with the Covid situation, is attacking your weak areas, and making you feel like you are losing T. And it's even possible that T has turned out to not be a good match for you, if T is very polyamorous at heart, and you are very monogamous at heart. You've done a lot of good studying so far, but you still have to figure out whether poly is something you can live with.

I hope Polyamory.com can help.
Sincerely,
Kevin T., "official greeter"

Notes:

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[darcyisverycute]

Okay a little clarification and a progress update. I've made two big steps in the relationship, mostly about T. Forward or backwards, kinda hard to tell, but ya know.

So the clarification. Evie and Kevin, I was not in fear of T breaking up with me because of trying poly; my fear was that she would not spend enough time with me to meet my needs, and I wouldn't be able to find a new partner to meet that even if I am poly, because of being bad at flirting. I do still think this was, is a reasonable fear- esp because that time sharing between T has actually gone to a disaster for me now. (read further)

Yeah. Maybe flirting is just a skill. The way I understood it from T, is that the goal is to be as subtle as possible in communicating sexual advances with others. Now with my ASD you can understand why that might be feeling impossible for me to do because so much of it goes over my head. But you are right. There are other ways to understand flirting. I will try to learn more about this alongside my other readings.

-----

The first thing that happened, I basically have been exploding with insecurity on encountering encountering anything sexual due to that fear of never having physical intimacy (a fear, you guys point out, I left unchecked and is not real, even though that's so hard for me to see right now), so I articulated a boundary with T that for at least a week, we don't do anything sexual together, just to help sort this out. I'm still struggling with this. Related: T gave me this video to help with managing fears:

T must have conflated seduction and sexual thinking with emotional intimacy-- since I communicated that boundary, she has basically cut herself off from me. Not responding to my messages asking for help and to discuss this now, out of fear that I'm going to hurt her again, she said.

She told me that I made distance between her, and that because of that, she can't help me - Bullshit! I set a temporary sexual boundary to avoid my breaking down by her pressuring seduction to occur, and that sticking a thorn into her, she's basically reacted to that by treating me like I broke up with her. That has been fucking hard - it really feels like for me the emotions I've been going through, my body really does think I broke up with her or something.

In the same message communicating the new boundary, I made sure T understood I didn't want to veto anything between her and M. Thanks to both of you for helping me reflect about that, and also the resources I've been reading. I can see M is too important and also the idea of vetoing someone, that power imbalance just gives me chills.


The second thing, I have had an identity crisis, and I think this is exactly what I need you guys help unpacking. I realised that as part of the process of deconstructing my sex-negativity, she inserted a whole fucking lot of her idealised unicorn girlfriend (a mental image formed mostly from what she told me she spent a thousand hours on 4chan porn boards and some other unicorn porn stuff, especially during her early high school). Now I think, she's not a unicorn hunter, but subconsciously was training me to become that mental image, to meet her sexual and intimacy needs. With a whole sleu of nasty manipulation that I don't think either of us realised.

So I wrote a 8 thousand word essay on it and sent it to both T and M. I think probably it wouldn't benefit anyone if I posted it here. It's trying to deconstruct the idea of the very real identity crisis I am experiencing now, that I can't separate my own identity, desires, fashion tastes, sexual philosophies, even my own gender and sexuality and poly-ness, I can't separate those ideas formed independently from me, and what she's inserted into my mind over the most part of two years. Not at any point I had the self awareness to ask myself, "Is this who I want to become?" like I had not properly internalized or even noticed this until now.

Then in the essay I interpreted and analysed how this non consentual "unicorn training" has manifested itself in a the poly between me, T, and M through internal couple privelige. That is, what I read about it, it's meant to mean the first and second have some powers over the third, but in my case it's like they both have privilege over me because I'm this half unicorn with no social competency.

I'll put the three particular relevant privileges here: The reference list: https://www.morethantwo.com/coupleprivilege.html
1. The couple has a built-in support system if the “outside” relationship fails, which may not be true if the original couple’s relationship fails.

There is no support system for the relationship between me and T failing.
There is a support system for T and M failing- that is, their rapport.
Think about this for a second- two years, T and I don't have a support system for each other?

2. The idea that an established couple that runs into problems may be able to just put outside relationships on the back burner to focus on the problem, vs. the idea that if a person has a problem with an “outside” relationship, he or she will not be able to put the established relationship on the back burner to focus on it.

This is what has happened. They spend time together now and I feel thrown away. I had no intentions of creating emotional distance to the extent of sending messages to T, and waiting what feels like hours, to no response. It felt like conditional responses based on criteria invisible to me, based on also how well *she* feel she could talk as opposed to allowing a degree of vulnerability and intimacy. I should add, for good reason, I stomped on her intimacy many times the past week, so I can understand that at least a little bit. Now, the key point: I hardly think T's communication with M is conditional in the same way.

3. Assumptions that one member of the couple’s time is dedicated to the other member unless explicitly negotiated otherwise.

This is what it's been like for me since one week ago- by default, I have, alone, been under the impression that by default they are a better match, that by default the time belongs between T and M together automatically, just more naturally, more intuitively.

I recognise this is stemming from enormous amounts of jealousy and envy from me. The teal swan videos have helped a lot with me realising and understanding this part. Is this percieved privilege just make-believe, a manifestation of my jealousy and envy? I don't know.


So... have any of you heard of this unicorn thing happening before? How the fuck am I meant to deal with this...? T's meaning "did not more thoroughly consider darcy's readiness for trying poly", I read that now as: she hadn't enough time to manipulate me!?

And let me get one thing straight. They are both trying to help me and tell me they love me and I believe it 100% but it's such a big disconnect. I know they are not professional counsellors, but it's really like I'm being treated as the child in the relationship and I feel like there's this irreversible damage I have now. I feel like half of a person.

On that topic I managed to build the courage to book appointments with three new counsellors yesterday. I don't think any have poly experience though.

The following contrasts an exceptionally important final point: The specific type, of sex-positive, relationship-healthy, sex-craving unicorn that T has constructed in her mind, is most certainly, in many ways, decidedly a wonderful way for me (I think also right now, for many other people also) to live my life. I don't think I genuinely want this part to end - it's not like I had much sexual personality to begin with... This is separate from the adoption of fetishes to satisfy T - the ways she asserts I must seduce her, yet remaining open about methods, yet the almost-invisible hypercriticality bending my will to her. So I guess you can see I am very torn and conflicted about this issue.

Sorry if I'm misusing poly terminology, I'm still so new to this.

Daily routine activites have become incredibly difficult for me.

 

[GalaGirl]

Welcome.

I'm sorry you struggle. I hope you feel better for airing out some. I mean all of this kindly, ok?

You are 22 years old. Your brain isn't done growing to adult brain til 25 is or so. So things like thinking ahead, impulse control, etc are still forming. You are also doing the age appropriate work of trying to figure out who you are as a young adult person, not you as a child or teen. And not just doing whatever your parents did, or what movies did or... becoming your OWN internal authority for how you want to be living YOUR life.

It is ok for a 22 yr old to be new to dating, life, figuring themselves out, etc. Cut yourself a break on some of that. You do not HAVE to have it all figured out at 22.

SHORT VERSION

I am glad you have sought out actual counselor for yourself. I know it's hard not to talk to T when you have been so much in the habit, and maybe even to the point of enmeshment... but maintain distance til you can talk to ACTUAL counselors.

I'm glad you see and you call "bullshit" on some of the hinky that's been going on here.

Don't put SO much value on this relationship. SOMEONE has to be the first young adult relationship.

Maybe you'd rather focus on having healthy relationships that can last, rather than latching on so hard to the first one that happened to come around?

I think you lost yourself on this one a bit, and are starting to "wake up" and realize maybe it's wasn't so great after all?

LONG VERSION

FWIW, these things pop out to me.

I have been in a long distance relationship with T (26 yo with ADHD), with monogamous pretense, for two years.

NRE lasts from 6-24 month. While LDR might prolong some of that, it's when the pink fluffy new relationship lala clouds lift, and reality sets in and you get to see how compatible this actually IS.

A month after I moved to Sydney, T shared all of her accounts (email account, etc) with me. 3 months later I reciprocated.

Do you mean you swapped passwords to these things? If so... why is this necessary? Even if you are sometimes a couple, there are other times where you can be individuals with good personal boundaries. I suggest you change the passwords to something only you know if that is what you meant.

It went very well, next day they are in discord flirting, the next day we are in a three-way (very sexual) discord chat. It's at this point I felt like (although I realised only later) I was in poly under duress. It went okay for an hour, then, and since then, I have been having near-constant mental breakdowns.

That is not poly to me. That's a 3 way computer sex thing. Did you consent to do this?

If you don't like it? Don't participate in online group sex any more.

This is what T thinks and has repeated to me many times: "main feeling at the moment is regret that did not more thoroughly consider darcy's readiness for trying poly."

Have you even been ASKED to consider poly? Or pushed into it?

And on reflection, is that something you even want? With THESE people?

Reading things is fine. Yet also have to do your own soul searching on that.

They have both been trying to help me. Yesterday M gave me a counselling-session of sorts, that felt like, I was in a drug addiction recovery clinic.

That does not sound appropriate to me. M would have a conflict of interest here. Also not their job. Did you even ask for this help? Help unasked for is pushing things on you.

If you want a counselor, get a professional who is not involved with any of you so some objectivity can be maintained. This is why I'm glad you reached out to some yourself already.

I was originally planning to live with T a year ago. Now, with a ~7-month lockdown in Melbourne, moving into a ~5-month lockdown in Sydney, the absolute soonest I may see T in person in the US is in 4-5 months for work-related reasons. I have never had physical intimacy with anyone. I have never been good at dating. I cannot recall a time I ever touched anyone, except for on their hands.

Are you putting too many eggs in the T basket because of those things?

Maybe you choose NOT to visit T and share sex with T because of the growing rift here. And you DON'T move in with T.

And you remember that when you are ready share sex and other intimacies with someone? SOMEONE has to be the first one. Hopefully it is consenting, a good experience, fun, etc. But it doesn't have to mean you have to be with them forever and ever.

I am believing now, that I will never have this physical intimacy with anyone. This is killing me. Obviously I have other insecurities too, but this is by far the biggest one at the moment.

Could talk to a counselor. And remember you are 22. It's ok to wait before sharing sex. Not everyone wants to be doing it in HS or younger. And you don't have to be living ALL your adult life up in the first 2 years of adulthood! It's ok to spread some stuff out.

T told me, after a lot of deliberation on her own I think, that she is willing to let go of M entirely, or just romantically, if that is what I need.

Great. Presumably she does not offer things she's not actually willing to do. Tell her you prefer she let M go entirely and not try to push cybersex nor poly on to you without warning again. Encourage her make friends with other ADHD trans girls. (Assuming you even want to be with her still after all this hinky. Maybe you just want to be done.)

Alternately you could say "No, thank you. I am not your gatekeeper. You see who you want. You are in charge of you. Just like I'm in charge of me." And if things get too weird or hinky here with T? Walk away. Because you ARE in charge of you.

The last five days I have had mental breakdowns, uncontrollably shaking and crying and so many suicidal thoughts. Maybe I can find someone else to date, alongside T, but I am so awful at flirting, and covid...

Please consider calling the helplines Evie posted to help you through the suicidal thoughts if you cannot make it to counselor appointments. You have inherent worth, dignity and value. Please take care of you.

I can't imagine any path forward. I am really struggling.

How about not imagining too far out right now? Just get through the next hour. Or day. One thing at a time. And get to counseling appointment.

my fear was that she would not spend enough time with me to meet my needs,

Then you part ways. Cuz you don't get what you need here. I'm also not hearing that you get enough basic respect if she's grooming you or manipulating you.

and I wouldn't be able to find a new partner to meet that even if I am poly, because of being bad at flirting.

Improving skills usually comes by doing. If you haven't dated a lot in teen years? How about being kind to yourself and saying "Ok, I'm still a learner and that's fine in my 20s" rather than saying "I'm bad at flirting."

One allows for your to grow and change as you gather new experiences.

One kinda locks you into a box like you will be "bad" forever.

You don't have to be your own self bully in your head.

The way I understood it from T, is that the goal is to be as subtle as possible in communicating sexual advances with others.

For HER that might be the goal. You don't have to be just like T.

Sometimes people flirt just to enjoy the flirt with no plans to pursue sex. Others are just up front about asking if someone wants to share sex together. They aren't rude, but they also don't "hint" when they seek clear consent.

Now with my ASD you can understand why that might be feeling impossible for me to do because so much of it goes over my head.

You could give yourself permission to just be you. Again, you don't have to be just like T.

T must have conflated seduction and sexual thinking with emotional intimacy-- since I communicated that boundary, she has basically cut herself off from me. Not responding to my messages asking for help and to discuss this now, out of fear that I'm going to hurt her again, she said.

You guys sound kinda enmeshed to me. Not trying to be mean. Just saying maybe it's ok for you to have some time apart. And for you to work on expanding your support network of friends so EVERYTHING isn't coming from T. YKWIM?

Also sounds like T doesn't like it when you exhibit signs of being your own person and don't just buckle under and do whatever she says.
It "hurts her" if you do that. Well... darn. Be "hurt" then, T. Because you CAN be your own person.

She told me that I made distance between her, and that because of that, she can't help me - Bullshit! I set a temporary sexual boundary to avoid my breaking down by her pressuring seduction to occur, and that sticking a thorn into her, she's basically reacted to that by treating me like I broke up with her.

Glad you see the bullshit and called it bullshit! If she's mad you don't want to share sex whenever she wants? Tough. Go be mad then. You aren't some living dildo or "sex faucet" to service her whenever she wants sex.

This gives you an opportunity to reflect if your relationship with T is all that healthy or not. Now that NRE is lifting and you can see more of T for how she actually is... is she more like a fair weather friend? Playing head games? Manipulating you? Gets most of the receiving?

I suggest you keeping using the break to keep thinking. And run things by your counselor when appointment comes.

(cont)

 

[GalaGirl]

So I wrote a 8 thousand word essay on it and sent it to both T and M

I wish you had kept your essay and maybe took it to see a counselor instead.

If T really is a manipulative person, you just handed her the fast track to mess with your head. And M who barely knows you who was ready to "counsel" you? Nrgh. Same thing.

I hope not. But sometimes it can happen. So be on guard for that. No more shenanigans.

Please don't overshare things with them again. Run it by counselor first as you work to be more of your own person.

They are both trying to help me and tell me they love me and I believe it 100% but it's such a big disconnect.

I would not believe it 100%.

People who love me don't unicorn manipulate me like T did to you. Nor railroad you in cybersex or polyshipping so dang fast if that is what T did.

People who I barely met/know like M? They can't love me. They don't even know me. I'd wonder if they are trying to love bomb me.

Perhaps the disconnect is that you WANT to believe "They both love me" and what you ACTUALLY EXPERIENCE is hinky things and less than loving behavior towards you. Is that it?

I know they are not professional counsellors, but it's really like I'm being treated as the child in the relationship and I feel like there's this irreversible damage I have now. I feel like half of a person.

Not irreversible. You are a young adult person. You are certainly not a child.

If hanging around them basically leads to you feeling bad? Well, you could decide "I don't want to keep hanging around these people that leads to me feeling bad. I'm going to cut them off." And stop contact. Then see if over time you feel better.

Won't kid you. It might feel bad at first. Esp since it doesn't sound like you made local friends yet. So you can't hang with other people. Might feel a little lonely. But better that than new hinky business.

Like when you burn the toast and throw it out? There's still the burn smell in the kitchen even if you took the yucky toast out to the garage trash can. Have to wait for things to clear out and deal with yucky smell a bit more before it gets better. But as annoying as that is, better than keeping the yuck toast inside the house. Then it just keeps ON stinking the kitchen.

The specific type, of sex-positive, relationship-healthy, sex-craving unicorn that T has constructed in her mind, is most certainly, in many ways, decidedly a wonderful way for me

Awesome. Maybe you rather find your own new HEALTHY poly partners elsewhere rather than keep on with hinky sounding T and M?

This is separate from the adoption of fetishes to satisfy T - the ways she asserts I must seduce her, yet remaining open about methods, yet the almost-invisible hypercriticality bending my will to her. So I guess you can see I am very torn and conflicted about this issue.

You don't sound torn to me. You seem to see clear enough that there's been hinky business. Just that you are young, inexperienced, and dealing with big sadness and big disappointment, maybe for the first time ever.

Usually first breaks up are the hardest BECAUSE of that inexperience. People want to keep trying to make it work, hang on, wonder if it is something they did. But nope. At best, T's not compatible. At worst, she's been manipulating you. And M? Nrgh. You have enough problems with T. How about just ignoring M so there's less on your plate to deal with?

I gave this to all my kids.

S.E.X., second edition: The All-You-Need-To-Know Sexuality Guide to Get You Through Your Teens and Twenties​

Should I stay or should I go?

Maybe it helps you some. I could be wrong. I know things like ASD and being a trans girl, and considering poly can add some layers. But bottom line? It mostly sounds like "I ended up dating a person that wasn't great for me. Now what?" regular adult life problem.

I hope your counseling appointments are helpful and you can continue the work of detangling and figuring out who YOU are and how YOU want to be living your young adult life. As well as figuring out what YOU are willing and not willing to put up with in a healthy relationship.

Galagirl

 

[darcyisverycute]

Galagirl. Thank you so much. sooooosoosooso much.

I'll clarify some points.

Do you mean you swapped passwords to these things? If so... why is this necessary?

Yeah.. swapped passwords. I'm not sure still, T said it had to do with being completely honest with each other.
That I can't hide anything from her. I don't know.. I felt so so much guilt that three months I wasn't sharing it, and I thought it was meant to be a good thing, but nothing has really changed for the better because of it...

That is not poly to me. That's a 3 way computer sex thing. Did you consent to do this?

If you don't like it? Don't participate in online group sex any more.

Well, I did, T asked me, but it was more like a question I had 30 seconds to answer. So...
I guess it was "group sex" then. No, I didn't really like it, but it felt necessary I had to romantically date M in some form, or else T would be upset with me...

Have you even been ASKED to consider poly? Or pushed into it?

And on reflection, is that something you even want? With THESE people?

I'll quote some of what T wrote to me.
"I am sorry but I can only see it [polyamory] in the same manner in which I see spiritual/metaphysical beliefs. Strict monogamy seems entirely constructed to me, constructed to offer benefits that definitely do not feel nearly as important to me as what I am giving up to believe in/ follow it. (exception: benefit of keeping darcy might outweigh)

But I do understand and try to respect that others might see that trade off as worth it in a way that I do not.
I think that religion and spirituality is entirely constructed, but I see the benefits that it appears to offer people in processing their mortality, and I do not desire to mock, shame, or take that away from those people, insofar as it doesn’t substantially negatively impact those around them.

I will be satisfied upon seeing that you (Darcy) understand more fully how monogamy is constructed, that I see you able to make a choice about what you want, not coerced by the cultural inertia that you are swept up in.
You will note that I have avoided directly talking about it to you in favor of pointing you towards resources that will permit you to make your own judgements.

I have been very open and straightforwardly explicit about my hope for you to be accepting of and embrace poly, and I doubtless convey that implicitly through my actions and communications as well.

BUT THAT DOES NOT CONSTITUTE MANIPULATING YOU INTO BEING POLY.

To be fair, I have not put extended thought towards a hypothetical “what if darcy does decide she definitely only wants monogamy”. And I can see how that might cause poly to start to feel like an ultimatum for you, given the uncertainty in this other option.

And that is definitely a big asymmetry in our thinking. I (perhaps naively) see the probability as very low and I am content to only worry about crossing that bridge as it comes.

I did recognize this and two days ago I tried to more clearly define for you an acceptable monogamous path forward with me. I guess you found it unsatisfactory in some major way. "
Oh I think that "clearly monogamous" path was me vetoing M to stay with T. Fuck me...
She hasn't really talked to me very much about poly. She gave me one link to one resource I was already using for poly.. I think she is grossly overstating how much she has "helped" me. And then the big part in caps like she's saying I can't even utter the potential that it might be false because T put it in caps.

That does not sound appropriate to me. M would have a conflict of interest here. Also not their job. Did you even ask for this help? Help unasked for is pushing things on you.

If you want a counselor, get a professional who is not involved with any of you so some objectivity can be maintained. This is why I'm glad you reached out to some yourself already.

Yeah. I begged M to help me because I didn't know what to do at the time and M felt like the only person I could turn to because my best friend didn't want to help. I actually realised this during writing my long essay to them. I put my foot down in the essay already- I am not going to let M be my counsellor. I do not want to have that relationship with T's girlfriend.

And yeah. I booked three counsellors. One today, I just hope it's enough.. the others are a long way out.

Are you putting too many eggs in the T basket because of those things?

Maybe you choose NOT to visit T and share sex with T because of the growing rift here. And you DON'T move in with T.

And you remember that when you are ready share sex and other intimacies with someone? SOMEONE has to be the first one. Hopefully it is consenting, a good experience, fun, etc. But it doesn't have to mean you have to be with them forever and ever.

Yeah most certainly. Up until very recently, I had always felt if the relationship didn't work I had to kill myself, and I tried never to let T know of this, because whenever I mentioned my suicidal feelings she always told me I was manipulating her and to not do that.

Second point.. maybe...
I left this out, I didn't know if it was relevant or not. But T has been stuck in an undergraduate degree for 10 years not able to graduate. She has been putting more and more and more pressure on me to help her more and more with this and it has really hit a breaking point for me when I am spending more time helping her than on my own fucking phd. I have a great scholarship and four years of job security and T is living off the scraps of a loan from high school. I feel like I'm guilted into T's life, like I mirror her incompetencies even though my academic career is very successful.

Someone has to be the first one. mh. Still trying to throw out that inertia in my head, "you have to marry the first person you date" and similar bullshit.

Could talk to a counselor. And remember you are 22. It's ok to wait before sharing sex. Not everyone wants to be doing it in HS or younger. And you don't have to be living ALL your adult life up in the first 2 years of adulthood! It's ok to spread some stuff out.

Trans stigma in sexual environments fucking scares me. But yeah. I hope counselling can help with that. And practicing dating and flirting at some point in the future all over again.

Great. Presumably she does not offer things she's not actually willing to do. Tell her you prefer she let M go entirely and not try to push cybersex nor poly on to you without warning again. Encourage her make friends with other ADHD trans girls. (Assuming you even want to be with her still after all this hinky. Maybe you just want to be done.)

Alternately you could say "No, thank you. I am not your gatekeeper. You see who you want. You are in charge of you. Just like I'm in charge of me." And if things get too weird or hinky here with T? Walk away. Because you ARE in charge of you.

Well... Fuck..
I guess, even though I did say it's okay for T and M to be together, I mean, I could ask to turn that around..
She kind of sent me a message that because I passed up on the choice once, I don't get that choice a second time.

Reading your message makes me feel, yeah, I just kinda want to be done. I don't think it's right that I should have to go through beating myself up about this relationship situation so much the past week (now it's more like 10 days even-). Like I haven't been able to sleep with any quality the entire time. A couple nights I got 0 sleep. My heart rate feels like it's constantly above 120 no matter how much I slow my breathing or think about something I enjoy. This is so hard... I could not have imagined... I'm having a hard time seeing this really genuinely working out for me in the end.

Please consider calling the helplines Evie posted to help you through the suicidal thoughts if you cannot make it to counselor appointments. You have inherent worth, dignity and value. Please take care of you.

Yeah. spent almost the whole night on line with one the other day. I'll probably have to spend more time too.. but that is not something I should look down on myself for needing.

(continued)

 

[darcyisverycute]

How about not imagining too far out right now? Just get through the next hour. Or day. One thing at a time. And get to counseling appointment.

One day at a time. That's what I've been telling myself. It helps a little. One thing at a time. I'm thinking I'm going to talk to my phd supervisor, see if I can get a week or two off work for this.. he's pretty flexible about that sort of thing. A lot of people told me doing a phd while transitioning was gonna be hard, but to be honest, that's not the hard part. The hard part is the relationship. And you're right, I don't deserve to be in a relationship that's this fucking hard on me!

Then you part ways. Cuz you don't get what you need here. I'm also not hearing that you get enough basic respect if she's grooming you or manipulating you.

Yeah.. Ugh this is difficult. But yeah. I just. I can't be with her if I only get a response back 10% of the time. If she's never available for me to talk to. The other day, I just asked her to read 10 minutes of a book for me, just to try taking my minds of things and let us forget about the problems for a moment to enjoy ourselves.
It took her half an hour and then she only read five minutes of the book. That made me feel sick. I'm not getting the attention time I need.

Improving skills usually comes by doing. If you haven't dated a lot in teen years? How about being kind to yourself and saying "Ok, I'm still a learner and that's fine in my 20s" rather than saying "I'm bad at flirting."

You don't have to be your own self bully in your head.

Yeah. Who knows. Maybe I'll try dating on this forum at some point. Or just anywhere but tinder. Tinder was so awful for me being a trans girl.

For HER that might be the goal. You don't have to be just like T.

Yeah. I'm only just starting to realise this. Thank you.

You could give yourself permission to just be you. Again, you don't have to be just like T.

I'm trying to tell myself, I don't need to worry or immediately re-evaluate every aspect of my personality because of this identity crisis. Yeah, I can just, do what feels "me", even if it isn't 100% really "me" behind that, but I do deserve to be happy.

You guys sound kinda enmeshed to me. Not trying to be mean. Just saying maybe it's ok for you to have some time apart.

Yes enmeshed is very accurate. Except, since 4 months ago, it's kind of only been one way I felt; she felt no need to really spend much time with me, but I still felt that need so enormously. I know it's not healthy. I thought it could/can be fixed.

Glad you see the bullshit and called it bullshit! If she's mad you don't want to share sex whenever she wants? Tough. Go be mad then. You aren't some living dildo or "sex faucet" to service her whenever she wants sex.

This might not sound like much to you... but, many months of my life, I really have felt like that. Even though it's just over video call on my phone.

I wish you had kept your essay and maybe took it to see a counselor instead.

If T really is a manipulative person, you just handed her the fast track to mess with your head. And M who barely knows you who was ready to "counsel" you? Nrgh. Same thing.

I hope not. But sometimes it can happen. So be on guard for that. No more shenanigans.

Please don't overshare things with them again. Run it by counselor first as you work to be more of your own person.

I mean, benefit of the doubt, I don't think she has been manipulating me consciously. She gets offended that I think she's manipulating me even at all still. Like, that thought should be beneath me- if we trust eachother, we can't manipulate eachother, I think she thinks.

I mean. I did set out some new boundaries in the essay. Like, if she doesn't do some exposition on how she has really been manipulating me, and properly apologise for it, I am 100% going to break up with her - I made that clear. And I tried to make it clear what M's role is in this - if she wants to date T, she is going to have to accept that this relationship is something she is joining, and she has some basic responsibilities to help with what I'm going through. But I mean, yeah, M is not really involved with the core issues going on here. It's more, the issue is, they have been talking a lot behind my back the past week and not telling me anything. They have been talking to eachother four or more hours a day (I directly asked T) and I have no idea how much of that is about me, how much of that is about considering kicking me out, etc. That is a breeding ground for so so many of my anxieties right now.

About oversharing, what you said is making me consider changing my email password like you said. But, I'm scared, that's going to be interpreted as an act of hostility with T- she's gonna do something nasty back if I do...
Fuck why am I thinking like this...

I would not believe it 100%.

People who love me don't unicorn manipulate me like T did to you. Nor railroad you in cybersex or polyshipping so dang fast if that is what T did.

People who I barely met/know like M? They can't love me. They don't even know me. I'd wonder if they are trying to love bomb me.

Perhaps the disconnect is that you WANT to believe "They both love me" and what you ACTUALLY EXPERIENCE is hinky things and less than loving behavior towards you. Is that it?

Okay. Here is the thing. 5 days ago I think, I told T that what she's been doing with M, I don't trust her any more. I also told T that I haven't been feeling any emotional love for her - and both parts are very true.

What she did - She reiterated to me, good communication is founded on honesty, and honesty is founded on trust, and if you don't trust me, 100%, right now, that I will break up with you - and yeah, she managed to hoax me into it again. I was pacing up and down my apartment and all I could feel like was giving in was the only possible option. Into saying it and believing it. It's so awful actually. I don't think she trusts me - she doesn't take me really properly seriously about any of this. She isn't believing or trusting my difficulties, downplaying them because I just don't understand enough about poly, or I don't understand enough about seduction, so on. But I have to do what she says and I have to trust she knows what's best for me...

Yeah maybe they don't love me any more. T avoided saying it, but I asked her a few times, she told me more than a few times at that point that I'm a chore to her at the moment, I got the impression I was *only* a chore. But she tells me that she still loves me. How can I ... How can I be certain, of what T really feels? Of what I should feel? If she deserves my trust after all this, and she still thinks, that she hasn't been manipulating me? How can I trust someone who has been manipulating me for so long?

Not irreversible. You are a young adult person. You are certainly not a child.

If hanging around them basically leads to you feeling bad? Well, you could decide "I don't want to keep hanging around these people that leads to me feeling bad. I'm going to cut them off." And stop contact. Then see if over time you feel better.

You're right. You're right. Fuck this is hard to admit, but you are so right.

Awesome. Maybe you rather find your own new HEALTHY poly partners elsewhere rather than keep on with hinky sounding T and M?

Yeah, that's a thought alright...

I gave this to all my kids.

Maybe it helps you some. I could be wrong. I know things like ASD and being a trans girl, and considering poly can add some layers. But bottom line? It mostly sounds like "I ended up dating a person that wasn't great for me. Now what?" regular adult life problem.

I hope your counseling appointments are helpful and you can continue the work of detangling and figuring out who YOU are and how YOU want to be living your young adult life. As well as figuring out what YOU are willing and not willing to put up with in a healthy relationship.

I will start reading it. Thank you. Thank you so much.

What do "I" really want? This is going to take so long to answer...
I can see T and M are not helping me at all in answering this for myself. T has actually been making that impossibly more difficult.

 

[GalaGirl]

Glad it helped you some and you took it in spirit intended.

Yeah.. swapped passwords. I'm not sure still, T said it had to do with being completely honest with each other.

It is possible to be honest and say “No, thanks. I won’t be giving you my passwords. I don't want to know yours. I suggest you change them. I also don’t want you to wear my underwear or use my toothbrush. We each need our OWN things sometimes. That doesn’t mean a lack of trust. It means we are not enmeshed or trying to be all up inside each other’s skin."

Well, I did, T asked me, but it was more like a question I had 30 seconds to answer.

So not really a joyful yes. And even if you say ok at first, you can revoke your consent. Your consent to participate in things or not belongs to YOU. These are the consent cartoons.

https://www.boredpanda.com/consent-...oogle&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=organic

YOU get to be in charge of the sex you will and will not do. It is your body, your choice. T can be expected to handle her disappointment appropriately. If she cannot handle her own emotional management appropriately? You don't have to hang around her. Because YOU get to choose the company you keep.

I will be satisfied upon seeing that you (Darcy) understand more fully how monogamy is constructed, that I see you able to make a choice about what you want, not coerced by the cultural inertia that you are swept up in.

Awesome. You can say “I have chosen to end it with you, uncoerced by anyone, rather than just keep continuing with you from fear or inertia.”
That's honest.

And it doesn't HAVE to satisfy her. It has to satisfy YOU. You don’t have to shrink yourself for other people. You are allowed to take up the space you do in the world.

I think she is grossly overstating how much she has "helped" me. And then the big part in caps like she's saying I can't even utter the potential that it might be false because T put it in caps.

I think you can think for yourself. If you experience manipulations you know it. YOU ARE THERE.

And it isn’t like the manipulator is gonna AGREE they were manipulating. They will hem and haw, get huffy or "offended" or deflect and back pedal or blameshift or.... Anything but take personal responsibility for their share of the situation making.

Watch her try to flip it back around on you:

She isn't believing or trusting my difficulties, downplaying them because I just don't understand enough about poly, or I don't understand enough about seduction, so on. But I have to do what she says and I have to trust she knows what's best for me...

Do you see the head games happening there? You actually DON'T have to do what she says. You can think for your own self. You know what sounds hinky or not. And YOU choose what is best for you or not.

You are not a child. You are a young adult.

Yeah most certainly. Up until very recently, I had always felt if the relationship didn't work I had to kill myself, and I tried never to let T know of this, because whenever I mentioned my suicidal feelings she always told me I was manipulating her and to not do that.

SOMEONE has to be the first dating partner. Doesn't mean you have to be stuck with them for life.

I think it’s ok not to kill yourself if a relationship with a manipulating T doesn’t work out.

Give yourself the chance to do some healthy dating instead. Could call this a learning experience, and move on.

Reading your message makes me feel, yeah, I just kinda want to be done. I don't think it's right that I should have to go through beating myself up about this relationship situation so much the past week

Could honor your own self then and BE DONE. You don’t have to beat yourself up over T not being a healthy fit for you.

The point of dating is to find compatible people. Some will pan out. Some won't. It's just life. Not everyone you date is destined to be a a long haul runner.

Yeah. spent almost the whole night on line with one the other day. I'll probably have to spend more time too.. but that is not something I should look down on myself for needing.

If you need a hotline use it. You need what you need.

I had to take HRT for crazy perimenopause. My body was going berserk! One of the kids takes anxiety meds. Their body is funky in that area. If you need to talk to your counselors and as part of your management plan you need more talk therapy, meds, whatever it is? You just need what you need. You don’t look down on people needing glasses to see better, right? Don’t look down on you for needing what you need for your health and well being.

And if part of what you need for your health and well being is to get away from weirdo people? End it.

I'm trying to tell myself, I don't need to worry or immediately re-evaluate every aspect of my personality because of this identity crisis. Yeah, I can just, do what feels "me", even if it isn't 100% really "me" behind that, but I do deserve to be happy.

Yup. It’s ok to figure out who you are. I have said nothing while the kids figured themselves out. Whether it was weird hair colors, clothes, music interests, whatever. It’s a necessary stage for people. You try on a bunch of things to see which “me” is actual “me.” Everyone deserves to be happy DURING that experimenting time of life. As well being happy later on. Life changes are gonna happen again. Who you are in your 20s is not who you are in your 30s. 40s, 50s, 60s etc. Each decade has it own things. Just that the FIRST shift from teen to adult tends to be super hard because it IS first time. It gets easier over time.

This might not sound like much to you... but, many months of my life, I really have felt like that. Even though it's just over video call on my phone.

You felt you were just being used for sex entertainment? If so? It’s ok to stop and NOT do it. You don’t have to be that “sex faucet” person she turns on and off whenever she wants.

I mean, benefit of the doubt, I don't think she has been manipulating me consciously. She gets offended that I think she's manipulating me even at all still. Like, that thought should be beneath me- if we trust each other, we can't manipulate each other, I think she thinks.

Doesn't matter if on purpose or not. YOUR experience of it on the receiving end is still ugh.

Again… it isn’t like a manipulator is going to ADMIT they were doing it. Or if the person is ill and cannot even see when they are being inappropriate? You can't MAKE them see.

Doesn’t mean the behavior is suddenly ok to do or doesn't feel ugh to the recipient (you.)

I don’t know T. But from what you write about this relationship? I think “Nrgh. Too much, too weird, there’s easier people to poly date in the world. Could skip all this hinky business.”

Could set a higher personal standard for yourself for what you will and will not put up with in relationships. After having this learning experience? If it happens again, you know to get out faster. And just because someone is older than you doesn't make them "the expert" on how everything should go in the relationship.

Cuz YOU have your own mind You can think for your own self. And you are the expert on YOU. You decide what you will and will not put up with. You decide what sounds ok and what sounds too hinky or weird for you.

(cont)

 

[GalaGirl]

I did set out some new boundaries in the essay. Like, if she doesn't do some exposition on how she has really been manipulating me, and properly apologise for it, I am 100% going to break up with her - I made that clear.

You have to teach a 26 yr old basic relationship things like apologizing when one hurts others? Isn't that like preschool stuff?

You set personal boundaries for YOU to obey to help keep you safe. Not for other people to obey.

For instance, I have one called “I do not lend my things to careless people.” So if a neighbor borrows a lawn mower and breaks it? Doesn’t offer to fix or get new one? Then they want to come over here to borrow my pressure washer? I have to obey my boundary and tell them “No, not available to loan. Sorry!” if I want to be free of NEW careless neighbor shenanigans.

I don't have to be their life coach and teach them anything.

I just have to sidestep new shenanigans and they can go bother someone else that's an easier target.

In this case, your personal boundary could be “If I am treated poorly in a relationship, I will bring it up. If the person doesn’t acknowledge it, doesn’t apologize, or change behavior? And it becomes same old song, different day? I’m out. I don't buy another ticket for the same tired
merry-go-round ride. I expect better treatment.”

You have brought this up before to no avail. You said you want to be DONE. Sounds like It's been enough round and round. So instead of explaining things to T again? Take a new, easy path -- Be done.

How about you decide from this point forward, you decide to start honoring yourself first? Not like selfish, but like self care. You can choose to help others with their reasonable and rational requests only. Then instead of burning out, you are working from a full tank of gas. And if the requests are just bullshit things? Not reasonable? Not rational?

Pffft. Give it a pass. You don't have to be doing anything you don't feel like doing.

Do your own degree. You don’t have to “carry” T through hers. That is NOT a reasonable request or expectation. You don't have to burn yourself out on that. Her degree is her problem.

I made that clear. And I tried to make it clear what M's role is in this - if she wants to date T, she is going to have to accept that this relationship is something she is joining, and she has some basic responsibilities to help with what I'm going through.

I think you have enough problems with T. Ignore M things. You aren't dating M. You don't have to deal with them or share sex with them.

Automatically reduces your load! Whoosh!

About oversharing, what you said is making me consider changing my email password like you said. But, I'm scared, that's going to be interpreted as an act of hostility with T- she's gonna do something nasty back if I do...

From a long distance away what nasty thing do you think she will do? Esp when you remove her access to your personal technology? Block her from your social media, phone, email, etc?

I think you can reclaim your own space and power. Cuz it isn’t like T’s being NICE to you anyway. And you are REMOVING her ability to monkey with your internet things by taking back your passwords.

It’s ok for you to take up the space you do in the world. It's of for you to have own personal things nobody else gets to use. Your own underwear. You own toothbrush. Your own email.

It's ok to stop putting time, effort and energy into stuff that doesn't really work for you any more.

Fuck why am I thinking like this...

Because you are waking up from being in a manipulative sounding relationship. You are starting to see clearer. But it's been like 2 years of blowing smoke here. And even if you decide to get rid of the burned toast, the smell is gonna linger for a while still. The air needs TIME to clear.

Sometimes one must physically end things first before the mind/heart can have a chance to heal. Be kind to yourself as you heal.

I helped a friend leave her abuser ex husband and she spent more than a year jumping at noises and looking over her shoulder. It just takes the time it does to fully heal. I told her to look up the women's shelter. Before pandemic they did "healthy relationship class" at the mall community room and I'd drive her to it and wait for her in the bookstore or Panera or whatever. Maybe you can look up your local shelters and see if there's online classes. Or ones offered through your college campus. A lot of the colleges do "healthy relationship classes."

https://campusrec.eku.edu/promoting-healthy-relationships

I told T that what she's been doing with M, I don't trust her any more. I also told T that I haven't been feeling any emotional love for her - and both parts are very true.

Sounds pretty honest and up front to me. She might not like hearing it, but it’s honest.

And if very true, why still be here when you don't have to be?

She reiterated to me, good communication is founded on honesty, and honesty is founded on trust, and if you don't trust me, 100%, right now, that I will break up with you - and yeah, she managed to hoax me into it again.

You just said you DO NOT TRUST HER.

Well, you see it when it happens now. The verbal bullying/manipulating and flipping it around on you. And trying to threaten you to fall back into line.

Sounds like the goal of this conversation was to

a) use you for an emotional punching bag
b) make you jump up and do whatever she says so she doesn't end things

Cuz if the goal is to actually dump you? She'd just dump you without all this song and dance about "honesty and trust" when really it's like "I want you to let me run your life and never tell me 'no' or have any personal boundaries. "

How can I be certain, of what T really feels?

Keep your life simpler.

When you get mixed messages and words and actions do not match? You go by the actions. Cuz people can lie and talk is cheap.

The actions here are just ugh. Bow out.

Of what I should feel? If she deserves my trust after all this, and she still thinks, that she hasn't been manipulating me? How can I trust someone who has been manipulating me for so long?

You don’t. It is ok to stop. NOT to trust any more. It is ok to just bow out and be done. Decide that's enough and you don't want this taking up more of your life/time/energy/effort.

And understand that sometimes the body must physically leave before the mind and heart can heal. T’s spent 2 years (from the sound of it) telling you what to think, feel, do, etc.

So it may take you a while away from all that influence to heal and reclaim trusting your own judgement and your own feelings and YOU telling you what to do. It's not gonna happen overnight. Discuss these things with your counselors.

What do "I" really want? This is going to take so long to answer… I can see T and M are not helping me at all in answering this for myself. T has actually been making that impossibly more difficult.

Maybe cuz if you DO figure out who you actually you are?

You wake up and go “Look, I may not know ALL of who I am. But I know I am not on this earth to do T's degree for her, put up with bullshit, and be her sex faucet. T is not the boss of me. I am the boss of me. And I’m done.”

You’ve been walking on eggshells and fearful here. This is not a happy loving sounding relationship.

It's ok to bow out and get away from these people. Actually manipulating or not? Intentional or not? Being here is damaging for you.

Look:

I was pacing up and down my apartment and all I could feel like was giving in was the only possible option. Into saying it and believing it. It's so awful actually.

That doesn't sound like you are having fun here. If this situation causes you great stress? It's ok to leave the situation.

You have to be able to say "No. Not even for a dating partner will I do stuff or put up with stuff that hurts me."

No point in lingering in the "dragging out a break up" space.

Discuss with your counselor what you can do in the healing time. It's a better place in which to linger --- the healing time.

Galagirl

 

[Magdlyn]

GalaGirl wrote so much that I can't read it all, so I may repeat some things... but anyway.

I happen to be a decade older than M; I am 66. I have dated one person much younger than me (decades) but mostly I date people nearer my age, at least only 20 years younger, but not 30 or more. I hope there isn't something bad going on with this new person M, who is trying to have cyber/group sex with 2 people 30 years younger than she is. None of you have met in person. M might even be catfishing for all anyone knows. She sure as HELL doesn't love 2 young women she met online one week ago!

Anyway, it sounds like T is doing with M what she did with you before she got tired of you-- talking online 4 hours a day, right? She may have moved on already, from the sound of it. That feels hurtful. This is a complicated situation, but rejection always hurts, and the first one hurts the most. So I can sympathize with that. (I still get rejected, even though I am on the opposite side of life from you. Few sexually-active nice kind yet kinky people want to date a woman past 65. lol. No matter how cute I am.)

Next, you are just beginning your transition. That in itself is huge. I myself am non-binary (she/her) and my partner is a transwoman. I met her 12 years ago when she was beginning to formally transition at age 32 (got a dr, started counseling, then started hormones). In the US, you can't start hormones until you've had some counseling. So I hope you find a fantastic queer-friendly counselor soon, who truly understands transgender issues, and hopefully can give dating advice to a young person who is just starting to date as a woman, after presenting as male for a couple decades.

I am surprised you're doing a PhD at age 22. Maybe you got your bachelor's and master's degrees super young? Maybe you're not emotionally prepared at that young age to 1) transition, 2) date, much less try out group sex and/or polyamory, or being a "unicorn" (whatever that means to you) and 3) work on a PhD.

I'd say you could step back from dating at all, and from trying to flirt when it doesn't come naturally, and work on your transition. Your mood may be all over the place from the hormones, you often feel suicidal, and your head has been messed with by this awkward painful relationship with T, added to the disaster of being coerced into sexy cyber-chat with a person old enough to be your mom.

Plus, your on the autism spectrum. So there are 2 unusual needs there, the transgender situation and the autism. That complicates the way you will date, and love others, for now at least.

If I were you I'd tell T that I am stepping back, I won't be talking to her for a while. You might not want to formally break up yet, that is up to you. But you need to clear your head. You need to sleep, eat, exercise. These are just basic things humans need to do to care for themselves. You're going to feel down, suicidal more, if you can't sleep and your adrenaline is up, your cortisol is up. You need to be your own best friend. It's not healthy to need to talk to her every day for 4 hours to feel good. Your good mental health starts with you. Get rest, food, get some counseling. I am glad you called the hotline. Call them again, until you get to your new counselor and establish a rapport.

You'll meet other transpeople. Nowadays there are more and more of us out queers around. This board is not a dating site. You could try the website Fetlife eventually. But, in my opinion, right now, in the state you're in, maybe about to break up, you're not an ideal dating partner. You might find a rebound partner, but that could also go badly. It might be better just to make some queer (maybe polyamorous) platonic friends for now.

 

[darcyisverycute]

I know you guys are not gonna be happy hearing this.

I couldn't do it. I couldn't break up with her today.

I was preparing for really killing myself instead. And just started sending her everything of my logins and research and was writing a will giving everything to her, as preparation for when I die. T gave a tip to my apartment manager and now I'm in the sexual assault services safe assesment space unit of my local hospital. Yeah turns out I was a little speculative about that.

I'm writing this from my phone in the hospital. I'm sorry. I don't know how to do this. I don't know how to survive this right now. I hope they can help me. I hope I can help myself.

M blocked me. Some quotes I got through T, they talking to eachother:

M: I think, I want out of the group - you do what you want/need, with her - she doesn't want my "counselling" (which is fine, I didn't want to do it, anyway) - she has potential but, I don't have it in me, to be dragged a crossed the fuck'n desert, for eternity... (did I say that, right?)
T: understand. I'm happy to see you asserting yourself.

and the later day, I think:
M: Neener-neener: I get to wake up, with no fear of, Darcy, notes...

I think T sending this message to me was the trigger:
"I give you one more thought before sleep-- You are doing a lot of telling me how I am "unconsciously" manipulating you. But you are not doing any telling of what you actually, in practice, want different. I cannot 'prove' to you that I'm not lying to you or myself or whatever. I can change my behavior in measurable ways that you decide you want."

There is one more quote... that I read in the hospital...
T sending a message to one of her friends and sending it to me as well.
"I can't find your exact quote.. but you said back during this time something to the effect of "when there is a big imbalance between how intelligent two people are, it allows for a lot of manipulation".

You were half right I think, and it's come full circle. Darcy has been disintegrating into an identity crisis over the past few days, understanding how much more social power I have in interactions with her, even despite my best efforts to equalize it more, and has landed upon some very paranoid delusions about how I've been manipulating her.

Understanding my position in that, I know that I have to get her third party help, and I got her lined up and scheduled with counsellors and many friends and peers. "

 

[GalaGirl]

I know you guys are not gonna be happy hearing this. I couldn't do it. I couldn't break up with her today.

You have a lot going on and many things to untangle. Go easier on yourself.

If you aren't ready to end things with T? That's ok!

If she triggered you recently with that text? Maybe you decide to make a little bit of space away from T to recover from that. Take a few days. And if you can't manage a few days space? Maybe it's just spreading out the calls and texts. Take a few hours. And if you can't manage that yet? Maybe just not answering her texts right away . But waiting 5-10 minutes first. Take a few minutes.

Baby steps, of whatever size you CAN do. So you can catch a bit of a break.

Try to get some rest in hospital.

I was preparing for really killing myself instead. And just started sending her everything of my logins and research and was writing a will giving everything to her, as preparation for when I die. T gave a tip to my apartment manager and now I'm in the sexual assault services unit of my local hospital.

I'm writing this from my phone in the hospital. I'm sorry. I don't know how to do this. I don't know how to survive this right now. I hope they can help me. I hope I can help myself.

Because THIS takes priority right now.

I am glad you are reasonably safe in hospital, and I hope people there can help you to help yourself. I think your well being could be your top priority right now.

When you are able to talk a counselor in hospital, maybe just lay it all on the table plain? Show them the texts and whatever else. So they can try to help you figure out what to do and what to work on for your patient management plan.

Not a huge thing, but perhaps some gentle activities you can do from a phone while in hospital when you are not sleeping and want to do something but don't know what to do. My anxiety kid likes these when she needs a quiet moment. They may or may not work for you.

Calm - Meditation Techniques for Sleep and Stress Reduction

get.calm.com

I Love Hue - Out now on the App Store and Google Play

A gentle journey into colour and perception.

i-love-hue.com

Antistress Mini Relaxing Games - Apps on Google Play

Fidget games, Slime Games, Pop it, Satisfying Anxiety relief games & Mini games

play.google.com

Breathe. Slow down. Baby steps.

hugs
GG

 

[darcyisverycute]

thank you. thank you for the apps. the hue one is taking my mind off things. slow.

talked with the doctor-counsellors twice now in the interview room. I laid it out plain with tons of text. I think they have a good understanding what im going through. Three times, different people commented how I'm good at writing my feelings. That's something to be proud of, I'm telling myself.

the second interview, she said I'll be moving to the psychiatric emergency care center some point tomorrow (today?).

I wonder what it's like there.

 

[GalaGirl]

Glad you like the color hue sorting one. Yes, take things slow and easy.

You do write well. Glad you are being up front with your doctors/counselors. Helping them to help you by giving all the data.

From times I've visited psych wards? If it is like the ones here? The emergency psych is super streamlined/plain. Because the patient is in emergency, and hopefully stabilizes and can move on to one of the other kinds of psych wards for longer care. Kids/teens go to juvenile psych and adults go to adult psych for example.

I don't know much about patient entry since I wasn't the patient. I do know the patient belongings are kept safe for them. They wear patient gowns/tops/pants given by the hospital. A guest goes in the first set of doors to sign in, put their things in a locker, and goes thru security check. You get a wrist bracelet thing with the key. (The guest gets their things back when they leave and the key stays in the lock.) When I passed security, I was buzzed through the second set doors and an orderly guided me to the living room sort of space.

Whatever I'm bringing has to pass the security check. In emergency psych, my person when not stable had a nurse in the room 24/7 til stable. They took it in shifts. I couldn't bring anything really. When moved to the longer care psych ward? I could take my person a card when visiting. That was ok. But I could not take potentially dangerous things in there.

The psych common area/living room space is where patients who feel up to it can socialize, do things like puzzles or look at magazines, and receive their guests. Orderlies are there in case someone needs something. But usually the patients and their guests were spread out over the couches, tables and chairs doing their visiting hours. Guests were not allowed back to the patient rooms.

And of course, bigger hospitals with more money have more than smaller hospitals on a basic budget. For example... The bigger hospital here has a small private garden space attached to the living room space. So if people wanted to visit on benches outside or do a little walk they could. It's walled in and secure. Nobody else in the hospital can use that garden area. Only for psych ward. The smaller hospital doesn't have that big of a psych ward visiting space. It was just the indoor "living room" type space. No outdoor garden attached to it.

The patient is given a schedule for what was happening when on their personal care plan-- meals, individual therapy, group therapy, rest/break times, if they take meds what time that is, lights out, etc. People came to check on them periodically. Overall? Very clean, very calm, very quiet.

I imagine your hospital psych ward will be along similar lines. How they do it exactly depends on the hospital. But in general? As safe, calm, and orderly as they can make it so the patient can stabilize and then focus on rest and recovery/doing their patient plan.

Galagirl