Trying to learn...

[RitaFire]

My husband had been talking to me about polyamory for a few years. He was not trying to push me into it, but he did discuss it with me. I had been unsure about how I felt about it. I always thought of marriage as a commitment between two people. I knew people with open marriages, and it seemed to work for them, but I am unsure if it would work for me. To me, it seemed that if someone was wanting an additional relationship outside of the marriage, that there was something lacking in the marriage.

My husband and I had been going to counseling to discuss other issues we had, mostly surrounding communication, which the counseling did help with. The subject of polyamory did come up and was discussed. But the counselor did show some bias towards monogamy. So, it did not seem that I was getting an unbiased view or discussion about it with her.

I started to do some of my own research on the topic. I found it interesting, and was trying to envision myself living that type of life with my husband.

I ended up having an experience with another man that led me to believe that I was ready for polyamory. I won't get into too many of the details here, but this experience made me feel that I could care for another man romantically, yet my husband was still my primary and I loved him and I did not want to leave him. I did not cheat on my husband, but with this other man we expressed our feelings for one another. And I communicated this with my husband openly. My husband was truly happy that I had felt this, and we decided to move forward with polyamory.

We put profiles on an online dating site, okcupid.com. He had began contacting many women in order to date them. Many of these women were not familiar with polyamory, some were. Some were comfortable being his secondary. He went on a couple of dates.

During this time, I ended up not going further with the man I mentioned above because he was married, and did not want to be open with his wife about me or our relationship. I knew that it could lead to trouble. It saddened me that this happened. I was finding other men on okcupid.com to possibly date, but did not end up going on any dates. I emailed and IMed with two men, but that was about it, possibly due to the fact that I am not aggressive when it comes to approaching men. I am more likely to wait for them to ask me out. But there were some definite possibilities for me.

But while all this was going on, it felt strange and uncomfortable for me. I was experiencing feelings that I had not felt before. Fear, anxiety, jealousy. When my husband and I were working on our contract, it was surreal. I kept wanting us to have dates on the same nights, if we could. It was uncomfortable for me to discuss how far we wanted go sexually on our first dates with someone. How often we wanted to see people, etc.

I also saw something in my husband that I had not seen him experience with me in a long time. He was wanting to do spontaneous things with these other women, fun and creative adventures. This saddened me greatly. And we discussed it. He said that he felt that I did not want to be spontaneous anymore. I said that I did. Maybe I had sent him the message, but I didn't mean to, and when I saw him do this with others I missed what we'd had.

I began having panic attacks. I was crying, not sleeping, not eating. My husband decided that we had to stop moving forward with polyamory. I was insisting that we should keep going. I had gotten some books to read about it, and I was reading online to try to understand and cope with the fears and jealousies that I had. But we stopped.

Since then, my husband and I have been trying to figure out what happened. Why I had such an extreme reaction. I understood that jealousy and the fears could be logically addressed, but that did not change the emotions I had. We talked about it possibly having to do with society's cult-like view of monogamy, Judeo-Christian ethics imposed upon this society, and maybe my having monogamous parents who were happily married for 34 years until my father died.

My husband has asked me to try to talk with others who are involved with polyamory because he feels that I may not have a true understanding of it. That I still see it as cheating based on my past experiences. He does not want us to move forward with it, and is not trying to make me do that. He just wants me to try to understand it better.

We did go to a polyamory meeting in the area. But I felt like an alien there. Everyone was in a different place than I was. None of them were married. Some had never married and some had divorced. It just did not feel right. We also tried to go to a couple of swinger parties. They were a lot of fun and we met some nice people. In many ways, I felt more comfortable with the swinger crowd, because many of them were married or in long-term couple relationships. But the problem my husband has with them is that they seem to be about only recreational sex vs. having an relationship beyond sex. But he also considered the possiblity that they may build relationships outside of the swinger parties. And some we talked with had.

I was the one who pulled the trigger on polyamory, and I could not do it. I feel guilt and pain for the damage I have caused our relationship.

We have been together for 12 years, married for almost 11 years. We decided before we got married that we were not going to have children. We love each other very much. And we cannot live without each other. We are struggling through this, and I am trying to learn, and be free of my fears. He has been depressed and frustrated with me because he feels I am not doing enough to try to learn about it, but I am trying my best and it goes through my head daily. I was hoping that posting here may help so I could gain some insight from all of you.

If you read this far I thank you so much. I look forward to hearing your insights.

 

[River]

RitaFire,

Thanks for sharing your story.

One thing that comes up for me in reading what you wrote is a sense that your husband may be pushing you a bit, even possibly manipulating you. But you need to take your own time to feel and think ... and thinkfeel ... through all of this polyamory stuff, about the social conditioning you mentioned, etc. You might consider telling him that you may move through your self-inquiry process on this faster if he'd take a less pushy approach to "encouragement" (my word, in quotes because its uncertain how encouraging pushing really can be).

No one should be forced or pushed into polyamory.

Meanwhile, you and your husband can explore being spontaneous with one another, deepening your relationship, building a bond that is strong enough to work, whichever path the two of you take in the future.

Just my two cents.

 

[BlackUnicorn]

I began having panic attacks. I was crying, not sleeping, not eating. My husband decided that we had to stop moving forward with polyamory. I was insisting that we should keep going. I had gotten some books to read about it, and I was reading online to try to understand and cope with the fears and jealousies that I had. But we stopped.

Hi and welcome, RitaFire. Happy to have you here.

To me, panic attacks (haven't had a full-blown attack for a while now) are a sign of me being under such an extreme stress in my life that my mind tries to shut down. Every disease of the mind/body has a different etiology. Mine were abusive experiences in the past and the feelings of self-loathing they caused, which extreme stress and disappointments brought to the surface.

To me, it sounds like you were trying to push yourself to do something you weren't ready for. Putting polyamorous explorations aside until you are strong enough to deal with the emotions that set off panicky responses in you is definitely for the best now.

Be kind to yourself. There is nothing wrong with you; this is just something you need to deal with to be able to move on. I'm sending lots of compassion your way.

 

[RitaFire]

Thank you both for your comments and insights.

The thing is, he feels wronged, by the whole situation we experienced, by me jumping into it thinking I was ready, but really was not. He said when we got into it that we would quit at any time either one of us wanted to. When we did quit, it was much more of a struggle for us afterwards than I expected. Actually I really did not know what to expect following this experience. But it has caused a strain.

He wants me to try to right the situation by truly learning what polyamory is. By talking with people involved in it, and understanding it. Only then does he think that I could make a more logical analysis of it, and not be afraid. Kind of like cognitive behavioral therapy, I think. I have been trying, but it has been difficult. because I am still reeling from the experience we had, and the emotions it caused. I also think that we need to repair our relationship first and foremost. Yet I see my husband frustrated and depressed, which makes me feel sad and guilty. I am trying to grasp it all as fast as I can. But he feels that I am not doing enough.

Since the end of August, which is when we started, to about mid-September, when we stopped, I have gone to one polyamory meeting, and three swinger parties, and I have attempted to talk with individuals at both. But often, me going to these has resulted in him being depressed, and frustrated that I did not initiate anything, and was only doing it because he was upset.

Last week, he brought up that at the polyamory group meeting they would be discussing jealousy, but my first reaction was that I did not want to go, that I did not feel comfortable with that particular poly group. This frustrated my husband. He says that I should be willing to feel a bit of discomfort to try to learn about it, and understand it.

I do honestly think about it daily. I am trying to reconcile the emotions and pain. Does it seem like am I just stalling and dragging my feet?

 

[dingedheart]

Welcome, RitaFire.

I can assure you there are plenty of people here that can offer you advice and guidance. Unfortunately, I might not be one of them.

You mentioned spontaneity, and it struck a chord with me. I have found that spontaneity is much more difficult, or it has to be confined to a designated time, which goes directly against the idea of being spontaneous. Schedules are the working norm.

The good thing for you both is you are on equal footing, meaning you are both dating and experiencing it together. You sort of have automatic empathy and understanding. The trouble, from my point of view, is who can say how they're going to react if and when they fall in love, or, worse head over heels in love? I've been told that's the highest degree of love. It was a risk I wasn't willing to take until recently.

Good luck to both of you,
D

 

[SNeacail]

I don't like the tone that your husband has taken, that you need to learn more about polyamory. This is not an illness. One party doesn't just get to do as he pleases and disregard the needs of his partner just because he is poly. You both need to learn together, including learning how to communicate your fear and insecurities to each other. It sounds to me like poly made visible some holes in your marriage that need to be fixed. Part of the process is learning to communicate together and be responsive to each other's needs.

It could have been too much, too fast. Have you been doing spontaneous things together lately? Have you been dating each other? Do you have hobbies that don't involve your husband?

 

[RobFire]

My Tone

Hi, this is Rita's hubby Rob.

Just wanted to clarify some things in defense.

1. I am not asking Rita to engage in any actual poly activity, only to learn more about it, as I believe the jump into it was premature and done without enough research to begin with.

2. It was Rita who convinced me to try poly, and it was I who stopped it when I felt it was hurting her too much.

3. I would not even consider entering into poly again unless I saw convincing evidence Rita was ready, including signs I would see, that she does not know about, that would leave little doubt. (I discussed those signs with counselors and friends. All agree that they would be unmistakable.) And she would have to initiate.

Having said those things, the only danger Rita is in, in researching poly and gaining a better understanding of it, would be knowledge, which I did not think was a lot for me to ask her to risk.

 

[redpepper]

Thanks for responding, Rita's husband. Would you please get yourself an account? It just makes it far less complicated when responding and talking to people on here. Much appreciated.

What stuck out for me was the spontaneity stuff, too. I think that working on your core relationship and getting a good foundation would benefit. It sounds like Rita is missing some fun in her relationship life, and that would lead to jealousy, not an uncommon thing. That is what usually comes up, as much as not having the same amount of time as before.

Why not plan some fun stuff for the summer together" Rita's husband, why not surprise her with some fun dates?

When the fall comes, if you have got some good times under your belt and feel bonded and connected again, and know what is important to you about each other, maybe you can talk about it again. Take a sabbatical from poly, so to speak.

I also suggest that you both add in there doing some reading together, on here, other sites. There is a lot to learn. A foundation is so important.

 

[RobFire]

Rob and Rita and Spontenaity

Thanks for responding, Rita's husband. Would you please get yourself an account?

What stuck out for me was the spontaneity stuff too. I think that working on your core relationship and getting a good foundation would benefit. It sounds like Rita is missing some fun in her relationship life and that would lead to jealousy, not an uncommon thing. That is what usually comes up, as much as not having the same amount of time as before...

Why not plan some fun stuff for the summer together? Why not surprise her with some fun dates?

When the fall comes, if you have got some good times under your belt and feel bonded and connected again, and know what is important to you about each other, maybe you can talk about it again. Take a sabbatical from poly, so to speak.
I also suggest that you both add in there doing some reading together, on here, other sites. There is a lot to learn. A foundation is so important. So a tag search for "lessons" or "foundations."

Hi, Redpepper. I did actually set up my own account. Mine's RobFire. Hers is RitaFire.

The spontaneity thing is actually an interesting topic. For the many, many years we've been married, we had done some spontaneous stuff. As time went on, I noticed a trend where I would suggest off-the-cuff ideas to go out or get away, and an increasing hesitation on her part to do those things.

One of the positive things to come out of our brief foray into polyamory was that it brought her desire to once again do these types of things to the surface. Since then we have done several zero planning road trips, including one to Chicago (we live in Michigan) where we went out to an industrial club, stayed at a hotel, then drove back the next day, and another trip down south that lasted a few days.

I agree that we should definitely not entertain outside relationships until we are once again on very firm footing.

I would go so far as to say that if my wife were to suddenly beg and plead to try again, that I would not allow us to try it at this time. I would need a lot of time and convincing to go there again.

What I am more interested in is for her to learn more about it. Clearly things went south quickly last time we tried. I am a big believer in finding reason for things that go wrong, so that a deeper understanding between the both of us can grow and bring a richer connection to us.

There are three things I feel are critical to any relationship: Trust, Communication and Commitment.

As far as trust, we have that in spades. Outside of surprise gifts, we don't hide things from each other. Even when they are ugly, possibly hurtful or hard to cope with. I would be dishonest to her if I were to claim that I was happy with the way things worked out with poly.

As for communication, that's what I am trying to keep alive about this subject. I do not like things to fester unresolved or not discussed. I do not need immediate results, but I do need to see some effort made.

And as for commitment, I have committed to keep us away from things that can harm our relationship, and to give all I can to grow our bond. What I am asking from Rita is the same thing, a commitment to work through the issues that arose during our poly foray so that we can eventually grow from them. Just like we grew by learning how she did crave the type of spontaneous activities that I had belied she did not care for.

Above all, I would never jeopardize our 12-year relationship over something I thought could tear us apart.

 

[RitaFire]

Have you been doing spontaneous things together lately? Have you been dating each other? Do you have hobbies that don't involve your husband?

We have been trying to do more spontaneous things together. Taking short trips, for example.

I do have interests that do not directly involve my husband, which he is completely supportive of. I have also found some new friends through my interests. These interests and my friends have been a great source of strength for me. I tend to be introverted, and I have lost many friends to kids, so I have been working on being more social and building friendships.

What stuck out for me was the spontaneity stuff, too. I think that working on your core relationship and getting a good foundation would benefit. It sounds like Rita is missing some fun in her relationship life and that would lead to jealousy, as much as not having the same amount of time as before.

So, why not plan some fun dates?

When the fall comes, if you have got some good times under your belt and feel bonded and connected again, and know what is important to you about each other, maybe you can talk about it again. Take a sabbatical from poly.

Sometime during our marriage I made the mistake of giving my husband the impression that I did not want to do spontaneous things. I do tend to be a planner. But when he stopped doing spontaneous things and surprising me, and I saw him get excited about doing these types of things with someone else, I realized what a mistake I had made, and I missed this part of our relationship that was lost. That triggered a lot of feelings in me that were difficult to cope with. So that is something that I have mentioned to him that I want to focus on us getting to a good place again.

But, as he said in his post:

I am not asking Rita to engage in any actual poly activity, only to learn more about it, as I believe the jump into it was premature and done without enough research.

and

The only danger Rita is in, in researching poly, and gaining a better understanding of it, would be knowledge

 

[RitaFire]

Ha! We both responded at the same time. lol.

 

[River]

Thank you both for your willingness to allow us to share in your discussion and process. I consider all such sharing a gift to all. Welcome!

 

[RobFire]

No, thank you all

Thank you both for your willingness to allow us to share in your discussion and process. I consider all such sharing a gift to all.

I'm just happy there are forums like this where the topic can be discussed openly and frankly. Given the diverse situations that polyamory encompasses, it's good to have a place where people can discuss the joys and trials that opening up a relationship can bring.

 

[LovingRadiance]

Might I suggest something, too? Many of us have blogs. Check them out together.

Private message the people on here whom you get to know and feel comfortable with.

One of the keys to learning that so many people forget about is companionship. We (as people) often learn well in groups. It takes the sense of isolation and "Only I am struggling" out of learning. That's one of the reason grade school kids often like to go to school. Friends.

It's hard to make the foray into a "new lifestyle" if you don't have friends in it.

So you've both agreed that now isn't the time to actually open the relationship. Great! That means you are in agreement on something primal in all of this.

But, post, share, get to know people here, see if there are other poly groups that you can go to nearby and meet people.

Make some friends, learn the ropes, so to speak and then, as Redpepper said, you can re-discuss possibilities later.

FYI, I think that you may find a friend in Sneacail. She's "poly at heart," but not in action, as I recall.

 

[SNeacail]

She's "poly at heart," but not in action, as I recall.

True, at least for the foreseeable future. I think I may have come across a little harsh, sorry. It did set off some triggers for me. I've had people tell me that I just don't know enough about something and that's the reason I have a problem with their actions. In truth, the more I learned, the more problems I found with their actions.

 

[redpepper]

I did actually set up my own account. Mine's RobFire, hers is RitaFire.

Oops. Yeah... sorry. I read that too fast. Thanks.

You have some really good ideas about foundations already. Please feel free to add your thoughts to the "poly foundations" thread and what lessons you have learned on the "lessons we have learned" thread. All these thoughts can be very useful for others starting out in similar positions to the two of you.

Here are the two thread links for you, in case a tag search is difficult.

http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2858
http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2755

 

[Penny]

It sounds like you two are on a pretty healthy footing. I'd like to jump in on one small point here.

If RitaFire is uncomfortable with the local poly group, because she can't identify with the people in it, then I don't think it would be helpful for her to go to their meetings.

This forum is a safe and nurturing place to learn about polyamory. I don't mean to presume to know what you need, Ritafire, but I do believe you needs to feel safe and nurtured in order to relax and open up. If you are uncomfortable with the local poly group, you will have a much harder time of it.

In a lot of ways, IMO, this experience is like learning to float on your back in the water. You have to relax and let go in order to open up to new experiences. If you are coming into the situation predisposed to a fear of drowning, it's really hard not to panic and thwart your own best efforts to learn.

The people in these groups can act as hands holding you up in the water until you learn to trust your own buoyancy. If you don't trust those hands, if you aren't comfortable with their touch, then they may be adding another layer of anxiety, rather than lending support.

There's an element of intimacy and vulnerability to learning about polyamory. Even if there are things, you, Rita, could learn from the local poly group, if you can't connect with them or feel comfortable with them, then exposing yourself to them may only increase your anxiety.

The way I see it, you tried to jump in the deep end before you'd learned to swim. Your first experience was frightening and overwhelming, as near-drowning experiences tend to be. Now you has the additional burden of overcoming that, as well as still needing to learn to keep aloft in poly's sometimes turbulent seas.

I think you are very brave to keep trying.

 

[RitaFire]

The way I see it, you tried to jump in the deep end before you'd learned to swim. Your first experience was frightening and overwhelming, as near-drowning experiences tend to be. Now you has the additional burden of overcoming that, as well as still needing to learn to keep aloft in poly's sometimes turbulent seas. I think you are very brave to keep trying.

I think you really hit it there, Penny. I had some positive feelings during the experience, like NRE with the man I was considering becoming involved with. But the other negative feelings overwhelmed me.

I read your story here. I was wondering if your husband has found someone yet. If so, has that triggered some new emotions in you? I know, probably selfishly, that I have a difficult time thinking about my husband being with someone other than me, sharing intimacy that I feel should only be shared with me, but on the other hand, I seemed to have some positive feelings and excitement thinking about myself being with another man when we were trying poly! I don't know, maybe I like the idea of being "Queen Bee". But I have guilty feelings surrounding that, because I believe in balance and fairness, as well. Robfirre should have the right to enjoy what I am enjoying, but jealousy (he does not like that word, so I have defined jealousy in myself as a combination of anger and fear) overwhelms me, causing the panic attacks and crying fits.

 

[Penny]

My husband has had no luck finding someone, at least not a keeper. He had a few dates with a couple of other women. Finding someone takes time and energy, and he says he finds that he'd often rather spend that time with me. Still, he intends to keep looking, but is taking a laidback approach to it now.

I really do hope he finds someone he can establish a relationship with. This compersion thing (have you read up on that yet?) is very real and I have found it to be far more powerful than transient jealous twinges. I'm going to help him revamp his OKCupid profile soon. I want him to be able to rejoice in NRE, and to experience the sort of happiness that his love and support has enabled me to experience with my boyfriend.

I did feel some twinges of jealousy, particularly when he was dating a gorgeous red-headed model, but I find that if I break my jealousy apart into its components and deal with them one at a time, it is surprisingly easy to overcome.

The most important thing for me has been being able to say, "Hey, baby. I'm feeling insecure" or something like that, and then to discuss point by point what is bothering me. I am good at figuring out what I need in order to get in a good head space, and I am not afraid to ask for it. My partners have both expressed a deep appreciation of this quality, as I don't leave them guessing.

I work from the assumption that they want my happiness, just as much as I want them to be happy. My relationships are sturdy, strong, and built on trust and mutual respect.

Thumper has learned to ask for what he needs, as well. He's had a few twinges of jealousy, but we have worked through them with relative ease.

IMO, the trick is to never suffer in silence or to just put up with something for the sake of another's happiness. Yes, you might have to deal with uncomfortable or distressing emotions, but it is important to do so openly and to never let anything fester.

Thumper, T-Rex and I are still going strong. I am delighted by my loves, who spoil me to pieces and treat me like a queen. I spoil them back as much as I am able. The guys have become good friends and we are planning a couple of trips as a family. We hang out as a threesome several times a week. It's pretty cool.

 

[redpepper]

I don't really fit our local poly group, either. There are a lot of people in it that I just don't get. They are great and all, but their idea of poly doesn't seem to be similar to mine and/or their position in it is different. I still go, though. I have learned a lot about what I don't want from them. I care about the journeys they are on. I have invested in my community now.

I think it's important to create what you need in life. I started a group for women so that I could talk more about my relationship... and invited the women from our local group. It is going strong with up to 30 women each month. I had a need for community events, so I hosted them-- bowling, karaoke, dancing, whatever. If I wanted to do it, I figure others would, and I have been right. I encourage everyone to do this. You don't have to make a fuss. Just send an invite out for time and place and show up. It happens on its own.

Why not start your own group? Invite people to meet at a coffee shop or something and see how it goes. Just a meet and greet kind of thing. It's a great way to make friends, or better yet, to get dates. Sometimes friends become dates. Ya never know!