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The Farm (Tennessee) - Wikipedia
What is holding people back from trying out poly?
- Thread starter IntuitiveWriter
- Start date
Ain't that the truth. At least same-sex marriages are legal in the US now, so that degree of "not hetero, not just the bio mother and father structure" has been legitimized and legally protected.
Let's not get off track, thanks to ref's rather tongue in cheek comment about fundamentalists, which is obviously not related to modern polyamory.
I wasn't talking about polygyny or the patriarchy. I was talking about pre-patriarchal cultures BCE, or our modern, feminist culture today.
There's no need to address men having harems. I mean, sure, if you read The Red Tent, which is a historical fiction about events from BCE Biblical times, they do address patriarchal family life from the women's viewpoint, instead of the men's, as it was written in the actual Bible. The women do have (some hidden) power of their own, and they plan and plot against the male power structure, often in the red tent where they are isolated during menstruation.
But I was talking about times before god was a man, and now (since the 18th century), where women have been making a little progress in reclaiming their power.
There are poly families out there where kids, biologically anyone's, are at least sometimes cared for by people other than their bio-parents (metamours). Especially if a couple were poly before having kids, and either the mother or father had a partner, this partner could end up in an aunt or uncle or close family friend position, where the children accept them in a sort of parental role. We've had poly people come here who have become very close to their partner's kid(s), to the point of feeling like a parent. Often when that person breaks up with their partner, they miss the kids more than anything.
And I know three-parent birth certificates are legal in Somerville, MA. So it's even recognized legally in that city (and probably others I haven't heard about). The third partner has rights to those children, even if they are not the bio-parent.
Yes, Ina Gaskin. I once had a La Leche League co-Leader who was born and raised on The Farm!
SEASONEDpolyAgain
Well-known member
@Magdlyn I totally agree. I know families like that. I'm part of a family like that. However, the thread is about what holds people back, and I know from experience that many of the people considering poly aren't in any way looking for the type of lifestyle that extended/alternative families like mine lead. That includes the men/fathers who suggest that polyamory is a way to share childrearing, but it also includes the women who would want a far more parallel type of Poly, if any.
Back to the original topic.
What has held me back from doing poly dating, even while in a long-term poly relationship where my partner had many other relationships, is finding only limited options under the "poly" or "non-monogamous" label (via online dating).
In my twenties, I was practicing non-monogamy (or trying to) and had plenty of options and opportunities to meet people. Flirting at parities, friends setting me up with friends, men interested in casual sex (which I was also interested in then). BUT I did not consciously realize that most people are monogamous (whether by orientation, choice, or societal conditioning) and ultimately will want to seek a serious, monogamous relationship.
When I was 29, I was shocked and devastated when all 3 of my non-monogamous relationships, ranging from casual to serious, ended at the same time when each of my partners decided to be monogamous with another woman. I didn't get it. But none of those men were actually poly or had made a conscious choice to practice ENM. They were fine with seeing me non-monogamously on a temporary basis with no deep feelings involved for them. They did not understand why I was hurt that they ended things.
I did a lot of reading on ENM/poly and embraced the poly identity and set about dating by seeking other poly people. In many ways it was a relief to meet and chat with people who were also openly poly and understood my views on dating. I met my long-term poly partner that way. BUT I also found myself with much fewer dating options, even in the very poly-friendly Greater Boston Area.
Except for my partner Elijah, I found I did not click with most poly men. The majority of poly men (straight, cis men) who matched with me on dating sites were either married or deeply partnered with a nesting partner, often raising children. Their lives were just so different from my own. I was just not at a point where I wanted to date someone with a wife and/or they seemed unavailable to actually spend time with me.
And if they were unmarried, they were somehow even LESS available--only interested in very casual ENM but not deep poly relationships.
But as my relationship with Elijah developed, I found myself perfectly happy to just be with him. I didn't crave variety so much as I craved autonomy, which I totally had with Elijah, along with stability and deep connection. And for 12 years, we did have all three things the OP mentioned: OPEN EASY DEEP (unless me not dating others makes the "open" less open). I identified as poly, but felt "poly saturated" at just once partner.
I also had no free time to date others due to working full-time with a long commute (pre-pandemic), taking care of my ill father, and seeing Elijah in a semi-long-distance way with complicated logistics for visiting.
However, starting last year, Elijah and I developed serious relationship problems, not yet resolved and not clear if we will remain together. The EASY part was gone. Meanwhile, after years of taking care of my dad, my dad passed away and I found myself with the free time to actually date other people. And now that I'm in my 40s, I was curious how dating demographics had changed.
So, as an experiment, I set my dating profile as "Open to both monogamy and non-monogamy". I didn't want to date someone fully monogamous, nor was I sure things would be over with Elijah, but I felt that I was leaning toward a more monogamous style of ENM at the very least.
And, it worked. I clicked with a guy (Rick) who identifies as mostly monogamous but is open to some forms of ENM. He is very autonomous in his approach to relationships. Like me, he doesn't have the energy to want multiple relationships, but he is also skeptical of the idea of lifelong monogamy.
I went on some dates with poly-identifying men as well. And I'm finding that I'm still just not clicking with poly men. Like, none had compatible relationship styles with me. And again, my options under the "poly" label seemed quite limited.
So, something like that may be holding people, even single/unpartnered people, from poly dating. Not necessarily fear, jealousy, or societal conditioning. Lack of free time and/or lack of finding another poly person they click with.
Also, people may not want to deal with metamour dynamics and may just find that monogamy is simpler in that regard, even if it means giving up on variety yourself.
What has held me back from doing poly dating, even while in a long-term poly relationship where my partner had many other relationships, is finding only limited options under the "poly" or "non-monogamous" label (via online dating).
In my twenties, I was practicing non-monogamy (or trying to) and had plenty of options and opportunities to meet people. Flirting at parities, friends setting me up with friends, men interested in casual sex (which I was also interested in then). BUT I did not consciously realize that most people are monogamous (whether by orientation, choice, or societal conditioning) and ultimately will want to seek a serious, monogamous relationship.
When I was 29, I was shocked and devastated when all 3 of my non-monogamous relationships, ranging from casual to serious, ended at the same time when each of my partners decided to be monogamous with another woman. I didn't get it. But none of those men were actually poly or had made a conscious choice to practice ENM. They were fine with seeing me non-monogamously on a temporary basis with no deep feelings involved for them. They did not understand why I was hurt that they ended things.
I did a lot of reading on ENM/poly and embraced the poly identity and set about dating by seeking other poly people. In many ways it was a relief to meet and chat with people who were also openly poly and understood my views on dating. I met my long-term poly partner that way. BUT I also found myself with much fewer dating options, even in the very poly-friendly Greater Boston Area.
Except for my partner Elijah, I found I did not click with most poly men. The majority of poly men (straight, cis men) who matched with me on dating sites were either married or deeply partnered with a nesting partner, often raising children. Their lives were just so different from my own. I was just not at a point where I wanted to date someone with a wife and/or they seemed unavailable to actually spend time with me.
And if they were unmarried, they were somehow even LESS available--only interested in very casual ENM but not deep poly relationships.
But as my relationship with Elijah developed, I found myself perfectly happy to just be with him. I didn't crave variety so much as I craved autonomy, which I totally had with Elijah, along with stability and deep connection. And for 12 years, we did have all three things the OP mentioned: OPEN EASY DEEP (unless me not dating others makes the "open" less open). I identified as poly, but felt "poly saturated" at just once partner.
I also had no free time to date others due to working full-time with a long commute (pre-pandemic), taking care of my ill father, and seeing Elijah in a semi-long-distance way with complicated logistics for visiting.
However, starting last year, Elijah and I developed serious relationship problems, not yet resolved and not clear if we will remain together. The EASY part was gone. Meanwhile, after years of taking care of my dad, my dad passed away and I found myself with the free time to actually date other people. And now that I'm in my 40s, I was curious how dating demographics had changed.
So, as an experiment, I set my dating profile as "Open to both monogamy and non-monogamy". I didn't want to date someone fully monogamous, nor was I sure things would be over with Elijah, but I felt that I was leaning toward a more monogamous style of ENM at the very least.
And, it worked. I clicked with a guy (Rick) who identifies as mostly monogamous but is open to some forms of ENM. He is very autonomous in his approach to relationships. Like me, he doesn't have the energy to want multiple relationships, but he is also skeptical of the idea of lifelong monogamy.
I went on some dates with poly-identifying men as well. And I'm finding that I'm still just not clicking with poly men. Like, none had compatible relationship styles with me. And again, my options under the "poly" label seemed quite limited.
So, something like that may be holding people, even single/unpartnered people, from poly dating. Not necessarily fear, jealousy, or societal conditioning. Lack of free time and/or lack of finding another poly person they click with.
Also, people may not want to deal with metamour dynamics and may just find that monogamy is simpler in that regard, even if it means giving up on variety yourself.
IntuitiveWriter
New member
Unstable in the sense of how most people see polyamory, following only their ego, or if they keep on dating.
I found that a balanced network of love relationships is actually very stable in itself if everyone does their inner work and supports everyone else within that network. Like a interconnected mycelia network.
Openbook23
Active member
Lots of great stuff in this thread. Thanks to all involved. I think MeeraReed hit on some big points. People do Polyamory in different ways. I've dated people who use it as a way to avoid commitment ("I don't have the capacity for a full time relationship with anyone"), and others who use it as a way to add deep relationships. I prefer the latter myself. So, compatibility is key. That's true in monogamous relationships as well, of course, but you then have this added element of throwing other people into the mix.
Many ENM men are just wanting more sex or casual encounters. I don't want that. I don't like labels like 'demi,' but I do want/need deep emotional connection from my partners. So for me (as a male), being polyam means the opportunity for MORE connection. The sexual aspect is just part of intimacy; it's not my main goal. In fact, thanks to being polyamorous, I have close friends who are women that I would consider to be partners, i.e., people I love, but we don't have sex at all.
Of course, many people want a life partner who is there all/most of the time. They aren't likely to be comfortable with someone splitting their time/energy with others. That's OK! I don't think it has to be the result of patriarchy. It could just be what you want in a partner, which is fine.
Many ENM men are just wanting more sex or casual encounters. I don't want that. I don't like labels like 'demi,' but I do want/need deep emotional connection from my partners. So for me (as a male), being polyam means the opportunity for MORE connection. The sexual aspect is just part of intimacy; it's not my main goal. In fact, thanks to being polyamorous, I have close friends who are women that I would consider to be partners, i.e., people I love, but we don't have sex at all.
Of course, many people want a life partner who is there all/most of the time. They aren't likely to be comfortable with someone splitting their time/energy with others. That's OK! I don't think it has to be the result of patriarchy. It could just be what you want in a partner, which is fine.
IntuitiveWriter
New member
That is true in many cases! On the other hand, women often have a much harder time finding trust and safety with someone. This is something that men usually have little or no problems with. And when the men starts to explore first, it can create an even harder hurdle for the women to find this trust, because she is moving from a different position (she kind of has to). So, in many cases it would actually make sense to give the freedom first to the woman to find a new stable connection. Then she could actively support and help the man to find someone for himself, like connecting him with friends of friends for example.
Bobbi
Well-known member
This sounds gross to me. I don't ever want to be responsible for my partners love life. It doesn't work that way.
It took me less than a month to find 2 good partners after opening. I'm still with them. 3 years later my now ex (still trying to be poly) has dated many but found none. Took him a year to find someone to date fairly regularly but it isn't serious.
IntuitiveWriter
New member
Well, as it was written before, this is the great imbalance that needs to be looked at: a good looking woman can usually quickly find another male partner, because men often don't mind so much if they cannot have a woman exclusive.
But as a man searching for a woman who is open to being open, this is not so easy. So, why are not both supporting each other? Building a balanced network together instead of only having one side open?
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Bobbi
Well-known member
There's a difference between supporting one another where you build community together and having your partner find or set you up on dates.
I'm not sure what you mean by having one side open? Do you mean one person dating and the other isn't just because they haven't found anyone to date yet?
Being open means you both CAN date. It doesn't mean you both are. There will usually be inequality in that sense.
Bobbi
Well-known member
You can thank patriarchy for that. Yes, many women want a nuclear family with husband and kids, but the patriarchy is so strong at shaming women for even wanting sex, let alone multiple partners, that some can't even bring themselves to admit they want something else. This is slowly being broken down, but the process is long. Men are victims of the patriarchy too, which is starting to be talked about.
SEASONEDpolyAgain
Well-known member
I talked about this in one of my threads. Women might have to acknowledge that other women want very specific things from their male partners and part of being polyamorous might mean ensuring that you and your partner are actually attractive to your dating pool by being available enough to meet their needs.
I think broadly speaking, men and women have different needs of their additional partners. I think women generally need a level of depth and stability that exceeds what men expect from their additional relationships. I think part of polyamory is understanding what your partner needs to be able to offer their other partners and not obstructing that. It may be different or even in some senses, "more" than what your own dating pool demands of you, but that's but if equality and equity in polyamory.
As a poly wife, you might find a boyfriend who is happy with a date every week or two and is fine with light emotional intimacy, not meeting friends and family and just seeing how it goes. Meanwhile, your husband has a girlfriend who requires daily contact, long term planning and integration of social groups. What I see happen is that the wife feels the husband should find people like the guys she finds when the reality is that women tend not to want something so casual.
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I have found that MEN who are successful at poly dating (more than the average guys who complain here) share certain characteristics!
1. They actually like people, and don't just want to get laid.
2. They show this by asking women questions about their lives and actually listening and responding to what they say.
3. They are caring, nurturing, sensitive, strong and kind.
4. They have a certain self-confidence. It might be BDE (haha) or some other je ne sais quoi.
5. They have good manners.
6. They can write a decent English sentence with capitalization, punctuation and other proper grammar.
7. They are consistent with women they are trying to date. They show up in text and on dates.
8. They are interesting, with cool hobbies.
9. They are good lovers, caring, creative.
10. They have a job and a car.
11. They have an instinctual or studied understanding of love languages (this goes along with being good listeners and reading body language).
12. They are fine with using condoms.
13. They take care with their grooming and fitness.
14. There are more qualities, but that gives the gist.
My bf Aries has the above qualities (I'm so lucky), but I also know other guys who have no trouble getting dates at all! One in particular said he loves women because they are cooler than guys. He has the first few dates in a relaxed manner, enjoying the nice woman's company, maybe flirting just a little, but never focused on getting to the sex. He is fine if there isn't sex (not that he doesn't like sex) because he loves and appreciates women's company in general. This guy had 3 gfs when I used to see him. He was a bf of a friend of mine and a busy guy, or I would have been highly interested! It's counter-intuitive, but I'd jump into bed with a guy like this lol
I can think of a couple of men on this board who seem to have these qualities, and they are not wanting for dates. They're almost beating them off with a stick.
I hope they are... I am.
Albert Ross
Well-known member
15. They spend no time whatsoever engaging in the sophistry of "women get more attention than men and it's not fair"
To reply to the actual topic:
I imagine this is true of any relationship configuration, polyamory, monogamy, etc. The "everyone does the inner work and supports everyone else" is the important part, not the relationship structure.
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Bobbi
Well-known member
OMG! This is so true! My ex is not a "make a move " guy. He NEVER initiates sex yet he gets it on the first date almost every time, if not the second. He just loves talking to and getting to know women. He has great energy without that pushy masculinity. Women find that feeling safe and comfortable with a man is very attractive indeed.
Bobbi
Well-known member
Just the conversation turning to sex is a big ick for me when chatting up a guy. If I feel like that's what he's interested in I'll bounce. I'm cool with discussing safety/risk profiles but beyond that... nope. Not until we are actually going there. I've had the conversation turn to sex within 5 minutes of texting for the first time.