Wife has ended poly

[MK78]

My wife and I have been poly for a little over a year. I have had the same girlfriend for that time. My wife struggled to find a consistent partner, so this caused a lot of stress and anxiety for her. She felt I was showing my gf too much attention and not enough towards my wife. I tried over and over to help my wife feel secure, and it just never worked.
This week she finally said that's it. We need to stop. So she has told me to end things with my girlfriend, and to not even talk to her anymore. Zero contact. My wife and I have been together 23 years and 4 children together, so obviously I'm trying to save my marriage.
I feel devastated towards my girlfriend, and her family, who I was very close with.

I don't know if I'm looking for advice, maybe? Just looking to vent and see if anyone has any experience in this type of a situation.

I am poly, my wife is not, and I don't know how to go back to the way things were.

 

[SEASONEDpolyAgain]

You can't.

You need to decide if you want to be poly or not. Once you decide that, you'll know who is a compatible partner.

It doesn't sound like your wife is that person for you.

Maybe halt the poly but be actively working on a amicable break up because her needs are not compatible with yours.

 

[GalaGirl]

I am sorry you struggle.

This sounds hard. You have my sympathies.

She felt I was showing my gf too much attention and not enough towards my wife. I tried over and over to help my wife feel secure, and it just never worked.

Who wanted this poly change? How much preparation was done before the change?

How much attention does wife require to feel happy?

What was wife doing to help her feel secure/not rock her own boat? Cuz you can reasonably try to contribute to her sense of "safe and secure," but you cannot do it all or do it all FOR her.

This week she finally said that's it. We need to stop. So she has told me to end things with my girlfriend, and to not even talk to her anymore. Zero contact.

So you and wife tried poly for a year-ish. You found a steady GF and she has not found a steady partner.

Now she wants to quit and go back to monogamy. Why? Cuz poly dating frustrates her? She never wanted it in the first place and wasn't honest? Something else?

I am poly, my wife is not, and I don't know how to go back to the way things were.

Sounds like you do NOT want to go back to complete monogamy.

My wife and I have been together 23 years and 4 children together, so obviously I'm trying to save my marriage.

What are you trying to save it from? Changing? Ending? Something else?

Are you bumping into any of the 3rd set of bullet list things in this article?

Should I Stay or Should I Go?

Feeling unhappy in or unsure about your relationship? Having problems you don't know how to work through, or don't even know if you should? We'll talk you through making these choices, including how-to's on conflict resolution and doing breakups better.

www.scarleteen.com

• Is this the right relationship for you in your life now, or was it only right in the past?
• Are you staying in because this feels good, or because this feels familiar?
• Are you afraid of change in your life or of being alone or single? Is this relationship keeping you from needed change or growth?
• Do you feel like letting go means you failed? Are you staying to try and prove something to yourself or someone else?
• Are you staying because you feel guilty about having been sexual in something other than a lifelong relationship?
• Are you choosing to stay because you've become a partner's caretaker or counselor rather than their partner?
• Are you staying because any relationship seems better than no relationship, or because you're afraid this is the only chance you'll have for this kind of relationship?
• Are you staying because it's what the other person wants or says they need, even if it's not what you want and need?
• Are you staying because you made some kind of promise that you know you can't keep or don't want to, but feel guilty about breaking?
• Are you staying in figuring you'll just wait and see if something better comes along, and stay if it doesn't?

Have you thought about meeting your wife part way? Like ok. No NEW people. But existing partners stay. Do some kind of mono-poly thing. Would that be acceptable to her?

If wife truly prefers monogamy, and you want to continue with polyamory, think on this.

I feel devastated towards my girlfriend, and her family, who I was very close with.

Would you continue with the current GF and poly date others? Or break up with both, heal for a time, and start over in trying to find poly partners?

This feeling devastated sounds like anticipatory grief. Like you plan to dump the GF to please the wife and avoid divorce, but aren't thrilled with that idea/choice. Is that true?

How many of the 4 kids are still at home being actively parented?

What would being a healthy divorced, coparenting (and maybe eventually co-grandparenting) family be like?

Could that relationship shape fit better here if you and wife end your romantic relationship and just keep the coparenting one?

Have a period of "plain ex" first so each can heal on their own? Maybe over time changing again to "exes and friends?"

So your wife can be free FROM poly things she does not want and she can go back to dating to find a monogamous partner?

And you can be free TO pursue poly dating with partners who want same?


I can imagine this is hard right now. I encourage you to take a time out and do your soul searching and figure out what is best for you.

Galagirl

 

[SlowPoly]

My wife and I have been poly for a little over a year. I have had the same girlfriend for that time. My wife struggled to find a consistent partner, so this caused a lot of stress and anxiety for her.

Why did your wife have an expectation of finding a consistent partner within a year? Does she not know that people don’t always work out for long term relationships? Where did this expectation come from?

She felt I was showing my gf too much attention and not enough towards my wife. I tried over and over to help my wife feel secure, and it just never worked.

Did you not do things she requested and you agreed to? Or was it just never enough, and any time or attention you gave to Girlfriend seemed to make Wife feel starved?

This week she finally said that's it. We need to stop. So she has told me to end things with my girlfriend, and to not even talk to her anymore. Zero contact.

Was this blanket veto/pull-the-plug possibility discussed and agreed to prior to embarking on polyamory? Were you honest with Girlfriend that this was always looming?

My wife and I have been together 23 years and 4 children together, so obviously I'm trying to save my marriage.

I don’t see why this is obvious. Why don’t the people matter more than the marriage? Does the marriage have feelings, needs, and rights? Could you instead frame it as working together to find a best path forward for each and all of your loved ones?

FWIW I have four children as well, and I wouldn’t want them to learn that it’s okay to live the way someone else wants me to live, when I have a different vision of a good life. I want them to know it’s okay for each person to kindly choose separate lives that nourish them individually.

I feel devastated towards my girlfriend, and her family, who I was very close with.

This is past tense. Have you already broken up and gone no contact? There is a lot to process in grieving the loss of an important relationship, as well as the connections with other people involved. There may be latent anger or resentment at the person who convinced you to sever those connections. There may be guilt for the innocent friends who have now lost you. All of this sounds like stuff you might want to process methodically, maybe with a counselor.

I don't know if I'm looking for advice, maybe? Just looking to vent and see if anyone has any experience in this type of a situation.

I’m really sorry this is happening in your life. It’s hard! I hope writing it out helped, and I hope you get some helpful advice.

For me? Once I decided I was no longer interested in monogamy, it didn’t make sense for me to try to satisfy any person who wanted monogamy with me. It wasn’t a matter of me failing them, but of not failing myself. In such a case, I’m not going to tear myself up with guilt for changing. But I am going to move forward with honesty and compassion for all of us.

I am poly, my wife is not, and I don't know how to go back to the way things were.

There’s no going back. Experience doesn’t delete, and shared experience even less so. Life isn’t a static thing that you edit and then “undo.” It’s always changing. A little chaotic right now, but trying to go backward doesn’t necessarily mean getting to a more stable place.

When you say “I am poly” — what does that mean to you? That you have the capacity for more than one romantic love, but you could take it or leave it as far as acting on it? That you want the freedom to express, explore, and live your polyamory?

I hope you will consider the future you want to work toward within the context of the reality of the choices *you* can make. It sounds like you will have to grieve the loss of at least one relationship. I wish you healing.

 

[kdt26417]

Hi MK78,

It is not okay for you to break up with your girlfriend because your wife has ended poly. Do not break up with your girlfriend because your wife has ended poly. It is okay to not look for future girlfriends. I'm sorry your wife has not been able to find a consistent partner.

Regards,
Kevin T.

 

[WestCoastRedhead]

My wife and I have been poly for a little over a year. I have had the same girlfriend for that time. My wife struggled to find a consistent partner, so this caused a lot of stress and anxiety for her. She felt I was showing my gf too much attention and not enough towards my wife. I tried over and over to help my wife feel secure, and it just never worked.
This week she finally said that's it. We need to stop. So she has told me to end things with my girlfriend, and to not even talk to her anymore. Zero contact. My wife and I have been together 23 years and 4 children together, so obviously I'm trying to save my marriage.
I feel devastated towards my girlfriend, and her family, who I was very close with.

I don't know if I'm looking for advice, maybe? Just looking to vent and see if anyone has any experience in this type of a situation.

I am poly, my wife is not, and I don't know how to go back to the way things were.

I'm so sorry your family is struggling with this right now.

I will say, as a woman who was dumped/broken up with, not once but twice, by married poly men because their wives ended up feeling threatened by me (so the husbands, like you, felt they need to "save the marriage"), I was devastated. These two men and I had lovely, loving, healthy relationships that were ended when the home-life ones were threatened. I felt disposable, like the inconvenient covid pet, who was no longer wished for because I affected the marriage simply by being part of the picture. It was horrible.

If the relationship with your GF is healthy and lovely, please think long and hard about if that's the relationship you want to end, or if it's your marriage that is no longer healthy enough to consider. The partners on the outside of a nesting relationship are NOT disposable. They enter into the relationship with good faith that they will be treated with respect, not dumped because the spouse is struggling. When I opened my marriage in 2015, I struggled when my husband met and started falling for his GF. He was willing to part ways with her to spare me that struggle, but I said no, not to fall on his sword for me, that I had asked for this, and he deserved to have an outside relationship as much as me. It was hard, but it got better.

In the end, it turned out that my husband and I were growing apart and did feel the need to end our marriage a year later, but it was amicable, because we realized that we weren't what the other needed anymore. Perhaps this is also the case for you? Your marriage may be drawing to its natural conclusion?

Good luck and keep us posted!

 

[SEASONEDpolyAgain]

The partners on the outside of a nesting relationship are NOT disposable. They enter into the relationship with good faith that they will be treated with respect, not dumped because the spouse is struggling.

While I agree with this in principle, it's just not reflective of the real world. I think it's wise that poly people who get with someone in a highly entangled relationship understand that if things go wrong, the chances of everyone else retreating to save the marriage is very high.

You're the most disposable party out of everyone involved.

You can't make a rule stating that you're not allowed to dump me if you end up having to choose

 

[WestCoastRedhead]

While I agree with this in principle, it's just not reflective of the real world. I think it's wise that poly people who get with someone in a highly entangled relationship understand that if things go wrong, the chances of everyone else retreating to save the marriage is very high.

You're the most disposable party out of everyone involved.

You can't make a rule stating that you're not allowed to dump me if you end up having to choose

I didn't say it was a "rule". I'm saying it's unethical. And ENM is supposed to be - it's in the name. I follow the ideas that the writers of More Than Two ascribe to around not treating people as things, as disposable, that people need to be ethical in this as much as possible. It's one reason I'm wary of dating married men now. I won't be treated as a second class citizen, hence why I don't like couples' privilege or hierarchy, myself.

I do understand the pull to try to save a marriage, especially for the children - I was potentially in that situation if my husband had backed out of us being poly.

I just think that being married w/kids shouldn't automatically be the default relationship/situation to choose. I think all of the relationships should be considered, and the healthiest one perhaps the one that is kept. Why keep an unhealthy one? Perhaps the original poster and his wife are growing apart, as my husband and I did, and being poly is what might move things in that direction? It certainly did for me.

 

[SEASONEDpolyAgain]

I didn't say it was a "rule". I'm saying it's unethical. And ENM is supposed to be - it's in the name. I follow the ideas that the writers of More Than Two ascribe to around not treating people as things, as disposable, that people need to be ethical in this as much as possible. It's one reason I'm wary of dating married men now. I won't be treated as a second class citizen, hence why I don't like couples' privilege or hierarchy, myself.

I do understand the pull to try to save a marriage, especially for the children - I was potentially in that situation if my husband had backed out of us being poly.

I just think that being married w/kids shouldn't automatically be the default relationship/situation to choose. I think all of the relationships should be considered, and the healthiest one perhaps the one that is kept. Why keep an unhealthy one? Perhaps the original poster and his wife are growing apart, as my husband and I did, and being poly is what might move things in that direction? It certainly did for me.

I agree with you to some extent but I just think that the reality is more nuanced than these ideals.

I'm saying it's unethical.

Yes but what exactly is unethical? Like at what point does it become unethical? It's not unethical for me to pull out of a relationship because it disrupts my career goals so why is it wholly unethical to pull out of a relationship because it disrupts my overall relationship goals? It's okay if one of my goals is to stay married to Current Spouse.

How would we assess when the person has made an unethical choice vs an ethical one that complements their wider objectives?

In all cases I've listed, the dumped partner is arguably "disposable".

It's one reason I'm wary of dating married men now. I won't be treated as a second class citizen, hence why I don't like couples' privilege or hierarchy, myself.

That's probably the best choice. An acknowledgement that partnered people are rarely available enough to meet your needs and therefore usually not a good match.

I just think that being married w/kids shouldn't automatically be the default relationship/situation to choose. I think all of the relationships should be considered, and the healthiest one perhaps the one that is kept. Why keep an unhealthy one?

This assumes that the new relationship is always the healthier one that meets more needs than the established relationship. That's not always the case. People who have been married a long time often really love each other and feel suited to each other.

Although a new relationship/ENM may bring some additional enjoyment and meaningful relationships, for some people, they can't bring as much contentment as the long term relationship they already have.

So when they're at a point they have to choose, they genuinely choose what they want more.
When you're someone who has been dumped by a married person, it can be soothing to assume that it's not the choice they would have wanted to make, if wasn't for the entanglement that "traps" them in the marriage. And that may well be the case some of the time. But in many cases, it's genuine love and attachment that leads them to choose their spouse and they'd be less happy if they chose otherwise.

And ENM is supposed to be -

It's very easy to slip into a mode where you're so worried about unicorns and secondaries that you forget partnered people have the right to autonomous choice, too. 2 people can decide that the needs of the other are more important to them than those of anyone else and not be prepared to push boundaries and compromise their relationship for the needs of someone else. This is ethical.

. I follow the ideas that the writers of More Than Two ascribe to around not treating people as things,

This thread is about the writers of More Than Two. I don't know if you're aware of them. I'd read all the pages of this thread.

 

[LoveBunny]

I'm honestly mystified when poly people think that a long term partner and new partners ought to be considered "equal." You put how ever many years of work, time effort, growth into your partnership, then some some exciting new person comes along who hasn't done all that work, hasn't spent all that time, hasn't put in the energy and sacrifice to build a home and a life with together, and yet are entitled to the same consideration as the "old" partner?

It's easier to have a good/fun r'ship when you don't live together, don't need to stress together over the logistics of kids, house, pets, etc.. Being full time life partners, that's the hard stuff. I understand hierarchy is frowned upon, but to me it only seems fair. Do the work, put in the years, earn the privilege of your partner's loyalty.

If the marriage is failing with or without poly, that's one thing. If the newer person clearly is going to be the more compatible partner (and you're sure after a year of dating,) that's also different. But compatibility isn't just based on poly vs mono, not everyone who feels they are or could be poly has to act on it to be happy. Example: I'm bi. I can love a man or a woman. Doesn't mean I need to have both a man and a woman at the same time to be happy.

Choose what's best for you, of course, and I completely understand why that choice might be your wife of many years, unless being poly is a total non-negotiable for you. Either way, it's going to hurt to lose someone you love, and hurt someone you love, and I don't envy you. Wishing you the best.

 

[MK78]

I thank you all for your input so far. Every single one of you that has responded has brought up good points.

In the beginning, my wife and I had the agreement that if it wasn't working, we would just end poly. We were naive and didn't really know what to expect. After 4 or 5 months we both agreed that just ending didn't seem like an option. It wasn't as easy as we thought.

I started dating my gf last August. My wife dated a few guys, and then found a great guy end of October. They dated 6 weeks and everything was pretty much good. The problem was, this man she was dating came from the mono world. This was very very new to him, but he gave it a whirl. It didn't work, and when him and my wife broke up, my gf and I pulled back on our relationship, so I could be there for my wife.

In February or so, my wife started feeling resentment towards me. Saying I surged ahead with poly and didn't wait for her. But we moved at the same pace, and when her relationship failed, I stalled mine, but it's tough to go backwards with someone.

She kept trying to find new partners, then she wanted to know how strong my connection was with my gf. She needed to know what level it was. If my wife and I were level 10, what were my gf and I?
How does someone quantify that?

I assured her she was still my number 1, my best friend, and my life partner, but she would say she saw signs I was putting my gf first sometimes. The issue with that is, if my gf asked for a date, but I felt my wife wasn't in a good place, I would decline the date. I wouldn't tell my wife about it, because why would I? But then she wasn't noticing the times I WAS putting her first. She only saw the times I asked to see my gf.


My wife wanted me to only see my gf once a week. My wife wanted to go out twice a week to try amd find someone. She said I could have a second date a week, as long as it was with someone else, to make sure my connection didn't get too strong. If I ever asked for a 2nd date with my gf, for whatever reason, it was a sign I "loved her more than my wife"

What ended up happening was last week my wife had 3 dates scheduled. Tues, Wed, and Sat. I had a sat date with my gf.
Monday morning I asked my wife for a phone call during my break at 9:30. I asked at 8:30. I just wanted to chat with her. Feeling a slight disconnect.
My gf asked via text if her and I could get ice cream wednesday night while my wife was on her date. She asked at 9:00. My gf lives 2 hours away, but was going to be more than halfway to my house that evening, so thought it would be good.

When I called my wife at 9:30, she was suspicious as to why I was calling. I said I just wanted to talk. This started an all day argument, because I was feeling disconnected. We finally got things calmed down, and around 7 that night, she asked if I had made any plans for the week. I mentioned the ice cream, she said that's cool.

But then asked when my gf and I had discussed it. I knew if I said before out call, it would start a new argument. So I lied and said after the call.

My wife didn't believe me, she charged my old phone the next day, logged into my messages, and found out we talked before the call. Even though I could prove I asked for the call 30 mins before my gf and I discussed ice cream, it didn't matter, I had lied about the time of the conversation, and that was it. She said we had to end everything.

So...I know I lied. My wife was suspicious all day Monday that I had lied, but I hadn't yet. I ended up lying that night because of how suspicious she was all day. She couldn't accept that I just felt a need to talk to my wife.

There, thats a lot and I believe you have the whole story.

 

[dingedheart]

To me this sounds like your wife thinks this is a team sport that she can control. How much prep and education did you 2 do prior to opening up ? And how or why did you decide to take the plunge And who was the driving force behind this ? I think her expectation are out of line with reality.

 

[MK78]

To me this sounds like your wife thinks this is a team sport that she can control. How much prep and education did you 2 do prior to opening up ? And how or why did you decide to take the plunge And who was the driving force behind this ? I think her expectation are out of line with reality.

We were swingers for 6 years before going poly. We knew poly couples and talked a decent amount with them about it. She wanted it before I did. It was her idea and she even started calling my girlfriend by that name before I did. She really thought she wanted this, and I think she did, she just didn't want me to have it if she didn't have it.

 

[SEASONEDpolyAgain]

Do you think it might be a good idea to have general boundaries like "no looking in each other's phone"? This is totally separate to any mono/poly issue

 

[GalaGirl]

Thank you for more info.

In February or so, my wife started feeling resentment towards me. Saying I surged ahead with poly and didn't wait for her. But we moved at the same pace, and when her relationship failed, I stalled mine, but it's tough to go backwards with someone.

You both had the same opportunity to date others.

(You + GF) developing one way and (wife + BF ) developing another way? That is fair. Because those dyads contain those people.

Your wife saying "you surged ahead" is not realistic. It's not like you alone were in charge of the blue and wife alone was in charge of the orange. GF and BF had voices in there too.

I assured her she was still my number 1, my best friend, and my life partner, but she would say she saw signs I was putting my gf first sometimes. The issue with that is, if my gf asked for a date, but I felt my wife wasn't in a good place, I would decline the date. I wouldn't tell my wife about it, because why would I? But then she wasn't noticing the times I WAS putting her first. She only saw the times I asked to see my gf.

You do not ASK your wife if it is ok to see your GF. You have regular days out. And you take them whether you go out alone, with friends, or with your GF. And then you keep your regular dates with wife.

The rest of the post is more of wife insecure/worry stuff. Like not wanting the connection with GF to "get too strong."

It sounds like you two haven't done enough detangling.

The Most Skipped Step When Opening a Relationship

You’ve had hundreds of hours of discussions on what your open relationship will look like? Check!

medium.com

But then asked when my gf and I had discussed it. I knew if I said before out call, it would start a new argument. So I lied and said after the call.

Sounds like wife blows up a lot and you don't feel safe being honest because it will likely lead to more blow ups.
Is she aware this happens?

You sound like you walk on eggshells and it's like damned if you do, damned if you don't. Is that true?

My wife didn't believe me, she charged my old phone the next day, logged into my messages, and found out we talked before the call.

Why do you not have a passcode on your phones/accounts?


I've been married for decades and even if I say it is ok to go in there, DH still brings me my purse for ME to go in there and get whatever it was he wanted to borrow. I ask first before going in his wallet if I'm paying bills or whatever. We also don't peek in each other's phones, emails, social media accounts, etc. It's how we demonstrate respect.

Some long term couples get really sloppy on that. Casually step on toes/cross lines. Then "automatically" forgive the partner doing so because they love the partner. All without even talking about it. And slowly over time these encroachments become HABIT. It leads to a weird dynamic. Is that happening here?

Do you and wife need to have better personal boundaries? Are you too "CoupleBlob" like joined at the hip? And forgot you are ALSO individual people? Not treating each other kindly/respectfully?

Even though I could prove I asked for the call 30 mins before my gf and I discussed ice cream, it didn't matter, I had lied about the time of the conversation, and that was it. She said we had to end everything.

She means what? You have to end it with the GF now?

If so... Why do you allow your wife this much say in how you run your life?

Are you not able to say "No, thanks. I won't be doing that" to your wife?

It was her idea and she even started calling my girlfriend by that name before I did. She really thought she wanted this, and I think she did, she just didn't want me to have it if she didn't have it.

But what is "it" to her?

To me you both have it -- The same opportunity to date other people, and see how those new relationships unfold.

There will be times you both are dating someone else, a time where you are and she isn't, a time where she is and you are not, a time when neither has a regular dating partner.

She's being unreasonable if she thinks the other relationships will unfold exactly the same.

You get to decide if poly is even worth it.

It is going to suck if you dump the GF, but if that's what you are gonna do? Do it as quick and polite as possible and then NO. No more poly for either you or wife. Stick to monogamy and maybe swinging since she seems to be able to handle those.

Wife is not at a place where she can handle polyamory and sharing your time and attention with an actual GF. A one off swinging event is one thing. A regular GF is another and for whatever reason she is threatened by that.

If you and wife continue being married? You set better personal boundaries so she's not snooping in your phone, you learn to tell her "no" sometimes, and get to a healthier dynamic. She's your partner but she is NOT the boss of you. You tell her you expect her to see someone about her suspiciousness and insecurities and work on her personal stuff.

https://rhntc.org/sites/default/files/resources/rhntc_hlthy_rlshp_wheel_spectrum_11-2-2022.pdf

The other alternative is to end it with wife because this way of living -- where you are afraid and tell lies to feel safe from blow ups? Is taking a toll on your well being. So you consider couple counseling/trial separation/divorce -- whatever it has to be.

That is separate from the poly issues.

Maybe that's the saving grace here -- if you do end things with GF and you and wife quit trying to practice polyamory? That you both work on this wonky marriage and set it back on a healthier path.

I'm sorry you are dealing in this though. It sounds like wife liked the IDEA of polyamory, but doesn't actually have the skills to practice it well. And then it's bringing to light pre-existing issues in the marriage like the poor boundaries and blow ups.

Poly has a way of shining a light on all the cracks that were already there.

Galagirl

 

[MK78]

You sound like you walk on eggshells and it's like damned if you do, damned if you don't. Is that true?

Absolutely! I have been for some time.

You tell her you expect her to see someone about her suspiciousness and insecurities and work on her personal stuff.

She has been seeing a personal therapist since February, and we started seeing a couples therapist, that is skilled in ENM, a couple months ago. I think we had 3 or 4 sessions, and I felt things were actually getting better. Our conflict resolution was more calm, and we were having less arguments, until she flat out didn't believe me about this one thing.

Some long term couples get really sloppy on that. Casually step on toes/cross lines. Then "automatically" forgive the partner doing so because they love the partner. All without even talking about it. And slowly over time these encroachments become HABIT. It leads to a weird dynamic. Is that happening here?

I have been apologizing everytime my wife has felt insecure or upset. I have given her far more freedom than she has given me, all on the premise that I was hoping she would be happy. But she turns it around and says I only gave her that freedom so I can see my gf. Well, that is part of it, but I do legitimately want to see my wife happy, and she seemed happy when she was going out, just not when I was going out. And most of the time I only went out when she had a date. I could stay home without her, but she freaked out about staying home without me.

But what is "it" to her?

She admits that she doesn't even know if she wants another relationship. She enjoys the swinging side of things. Making new connections and having fun. But she says she can't handle me having a loving relationship with someone else if she doesn't too.

 

[WestCoastRedhead]

I agree with you to some extent but I just think that the reality is more nuanced than these ideals.



Yes but what exactly is unethical? Like at what point does it become unethical? It's not unethical for me to pull out of a relationship because it disrupts my career goals so why is it wholly unethical to pull out of a relationship because it disrupts my overall relationship goals? It's okay if one of my goals is to stay married to Current Spouse.

How would we assess when the person has made an unethical choice vs an ethical one that complements their wider objectives?

In all cases I've listed, the dumped partner is arguably "disposable".



That's probably the best choice. An acknowledgement that partnered people are rarely available enough to meet your needs and therefore usually not a good match.



This assumes that the new relationship is always the healthier one that meets more needs than the established relationship. That's not always the case. People who have been married a long time often really love each other and feel suited to each other.

Although a new relationship/ENM may bring some additional enjoyment and meaningful relationships, for some people, they can't bring as much contentment as the long term relationship they already have.

So when they're at a point they have to choose, they genuinely choose what they want more.
When you're someone who has been dumped by a married person, it can be soothing to assume that it's not the choice they would have wanted to make, if wasn't for the entanglement that "traps" them in the marriage. And that may well be the case some of the time. But in many cases, it's genuine love and attachment that leads them to choose their spouse and they'd be less happy if they chose otherwise.


It's very easy to slip into a mode where you're so worried about unicorns and secondaries that you forget partnered people have the right to autonomous choice, too. 2 people can decide that the needs of the other are more important to them than those of anyone else and not be prepared to push boundaries and compromise their relationship for the needs of someone else. This is ethical.





This thread is about the writers of More Than Two. I don't know if you're aware of them. I'd read all the pages of this thread.

Yup, I've heard the various things about Franklin. I still agree with both of the authors that people shouldn't be treated as things. Period.

 

[SEASONEDpolyAgain]

Yup, I've heard the various things about Franklin. I still agree with both of the authors that people shouldn't be treated as things. Period.

Which is interesting, since both authors treated people like "things" in various ways. It highlights my point that it's sort of a fruitless endeavor to attempt to create a situation where nobody is disposable.

You can agree not to have a veto rule, but that does nothing to circumvent the reality of a person "disposing of" one partner if things reach an impasse.

It's the difference between having polyamorous relationships and living the life and therefore seeing what actually occurs most often, and people who sort of live it "in theory". If you actually read all of the related stuff about Eve and Franklin, you'll learn that some of their "partners" were people with whom they went months without having phone contact. Let alone, face to face.

 

[WestCoastRedhead]

Which is interesting, since both authors treated people like "things" in various ways. It highlights my point that it's sort of a fruitless endeavor to attempt to create a situation where nobody is disposable.

You can agree not to have a veto rule, but that does nothing to circumvent the reality of a person "disposing of" one partner if things reach an impasse.

It's the difference between having polyamorous relationships and living the life and therefore seeing what actually occurs most often, and people who sort of live it "in theory". If you actually read all of the related stuff about Eve and Franklin, you'll learn that some of their "partners" were people with whom they went months without having phone contact. Let alone, face to face.

Thankfully not all situations will have the concepts of veto or "disposing" - my current situation is just one such, and I wouldn't have entered it otherwise. My partner (who I don't currently live with) has another partner (together for a decade, and who is married and living with her spouse/child), and his relationship with me, and his relationship with her are completely equal - neither one gets veto, or the is disposable, or has couples' privilege, and I'm so glad. I wouldn't have felt safe to enter into this relationship if there had been a long term relationship privilege. I've been treated as an equal from the start, and it feels amazing. THAT is how I do my poly, and how it feel best for me.

I'm not going to continue to detract from the OP's conversation. Thanks for your thoughts. We agree to disagree. Not interested in carrying on with this part of the thread though.

 

[SEASONEDpolyAgain]

Thankfully not all situations will have the concepts of veto or "disposing" - my current situation is just one such, and I wouldn't have entered it otherwise. My partner (who I don't currently live with) has another partner (together for a decade, and who is married and living with her spouse/child), and his relationship with me, and his relationship with her are completely equal - neither one gets veto, or the is disposable, or has couples' privilege, and I'm so glad. I wouldn't have felt safe to enter into this relationship if there had been a long term relationship privilege. I've been treated as an equal from the start, and it feels amazing. THAT is how I do my poly, and how it feel best for me.

I'm not going to continue to detract from the OP's conversation. Thanks for your thoughts. We agree to disagree. Not interested in carrying on with this part of the thread though.

Sure, but if your evolving needs clash in a way that means they can't exist together, he will choose the relationship that is more aligned with his individual goals. He won't allow both relationships to end in fear of choosing one over the other. That's just reality. And a reality that you come to acknowledge with experience.

One person will get dumped if no middle ground can be met. That person may feel disposable at that point.

Everything is going good for you because you hopefully chose someone compatible with enough availability to meet your needs and vice versa. All you can really do is hope it stays that way.

It's the same for all of us in every relationship. Learning to live with that helps us enjoy the moment.