left out of the NRE

[kdt26417]

Wow, purpleboots, the amount of ick being heaped on you is incredible. Shame on G and H both for the way they're acting. I'm just speechless about that.

In theory, I don't have a problem with G and H wanting to have a baby per se. But their timing is just awful. Couldn't they wait until other circumstances were a little more favorable?

Like GalaGirl said (Post #45):

"Could just NOT be having babies RIGHT NOW LIKE THIS. As an unplanned oopsie thing, when there's so many kids already and one on the way and crowded living quarters. Can we move to a bigger space? Get the kids we have grown a bit more and space the children OUT? Get your input and willing to coparent on board first?"

But, maybe H is so focused on "catching up" with purpleboots that she "just can't help it."

GalaGirl also makes a good point that maybe you're *not* "cut out for poly," if "poly" is to be defined in the way that G (and H) is defining it. In my opinion, they're not presenting you with "poly." They're presenting you with Grade-A *ridiculous.*

And, I like GalaGirl's suggestions to start making a note whenever G pulls another "tactic" on you. A little perspective could go a long way.

GalaGirl also makes a good point that G's offer of extreme solutions (such as stopping sex with H altogether) are likely to be a ploy to get you to give up on sensible middle-ground compromises, feel too guilty to accept the extreme offer, and then let him have the other extreme (e.g. sex every day with H and more and more babies) like he wanted all along. And yes, he is probably also playing to shift the blame (for any extreme "offer") onto you.

Re (from Post #56):

"He cums in [H], maybe promises whatever to get to, and NOW he ditches her once he's used her up? Ew."

Yep.

Re:

"Watch for him not letting you have that time out in peace and quiet. If he can keep broadcasting static over your channel in various ways it keeps your attention on *him* rather than you taking care of YOU."

Agreed.

 

[IndieSolo]

Purpleboots, I hope you do not waver and will stay strong. You have been totally disrespected. Do not go back, no matter what he or she says to you. It is all selfish BULLSHIT. Go to your family, go to your friends, go to your local social services, visit a church, and ask for help! PM me and I will help research resources for you.

 

[Magdlyn]

Just so you know, what Garth is trying to pull with you is not ethical non-monogamy. If he says you are "not cut out for poly," he is wrong. What he is doing is not ethical, respectful or mature adult behavior.

Basically he's got his fancy lady there to have sex with while you waddle around hugely pregnant, and still dealing with the infinite needs of his 2 year old. Maybe he screwed around on his former partner while she was cooking their second kid too?

You got drawn into it by being able to have sex with Helen. Even this week, she doled out one sex session with you, and then that night fucked Garth bareback! Ugh. They are so playing you.

Sounds like he's got a breeding fetish. He wants to "prove his masculinity" on women when his sperm takes hold of an egg in their wombs, but he has no interest in actually being much of a dad to said conceived child, or a real partner to its mother. Blech.

 

[BoringGuy]

Just so you know, what Garth is trying to pull with you is not ethical non-monogamy. If he says you are "not cut out for poly," he is wrong. What he is doing is not ethical, respectful or mature adult behavior.

Basically he's got his fancy lady there to have sex with while you waddle around hugely pregnant, and still dealing with the infinite needs of his 2 year old. Maybe he screwed around on his former partner while she was cooking their second kid too?

You got drawn into it by being able to have sex with Helen. Even this week, she doled out one sex session with you, and then that night fucked Garth bareback! Ugh. They are so playing you.

It sounds like he's got a breeding fetish. He wants to prove his masculinity on women when his sperm takes hold of an egg in their wombs, but he hasno interest in actually being much of a dad to said conceived child, or a real partner to its mother. Blech.

^^ +1

And what does this prize-winning stud do for a living that he can afford to support 4 kids from 2 different baby mommas (and trying to make a 3rd baby momma), but can't rent a place big enough to fuck in unless everyone else leaves the building?

 

[kdt26417]

^^ +1

 

[purpleboots]

Just so you know, what your bf is trying to pull with you is not ethical non-monogamy. If he says you are "not cut out for poly," he is wrong. What he is doing is not ethical, respectful or mature adult behavior.

Basically he's got his fancy lady there to have sex with while you waddle around hugely pregnant, and still dealing with the infinite needs of his 2 year old. Maybe he screwed around on his former partner while she was cooking their second kid too?

You got drawn into it by being able to have sex with Helen. Even this week, she doled out one sex session with you, and then that night fucked Garth bareback! Ugh. They are so playing you.

It sounds like he's got a breeding fetish... prove his masculinity... but no interest in actually being much of a dad to said conceived child, or a real partner to its mother.

You are spot on about everything, except that he is a good father to his children. He's more involved and engaged with them than any man I've ever met, which is probably why Helen wants to reproduce with him. It's certainly part of why I did.

I stayed at a friend's house last night. I had some scary contractions at night and messaged Garth about them. Somehow this turned a light on in his head, I think. He called me, saying he was sorry for being so disrespectful and that I've been the one working so hard to be accommodating to them, when it should be the other way around. It's like he just realized I'm carrying a child over here, and that's a hard enough job as it is.

My son is at the daycare my friend runs for the day. I'm going to meet Garth on his lunch break. I know you all think he's a monster, and may think me weak for trying to salvage the relationship, but this is my family, my whole life. I'm not ready to walk away yet.

 

[Magdlyn]

You are spot on about everything except that he is a good father to his children. More involved and engaged with them than any man I've ever met. Which is probably why H wants to reproduce with him. It's certainly part of why I did.

Well, trying to have another child when his present ones are only 7, 5, 2 and not yet born... one might argue that's not being such a good dad.

I stayed at a friend's house last night. I had some scary contractions at night and messaged Garth about them. Somehow this turned a light on in his head, I think. He called me saying he was sorry for being so disrespectful, and that I've been the one working so hard to be accommodating to them, when it should be the other way around.

Blah blah blah... As people have said, talk is cheap.

It's like he just realized I'm carrying a child over here...

OK, not a great indication of his being "a great dad," then. Great dads would be involved in nurturing the one carrying the fetus, i.e., you, and not be off shagging the new gf every chance he gets.

He's not a monster. Beware of black and white thinking. He is however, acting very irresponsibly. Not to mention trying to knock up new gf, he's also exposing you, and the unborn baby, to any STDs she might have, if you and he have sex bareback. Even if you do use condoms while pregnant (which I doubt) you could catch herpes if gf has it, which could prohibit a vaginal birth were you to develop lesions.

 

[IndieSolo]

I know you all think he's a monster, and may think me weak for trying to salvage the relationship, but this is my family, my whole life. I'm not ready to walk away yet.

Ah, yes, a wonderful family that gaslights you and is willing to leave you destitute as long as they get their jollies.

Honey, wake up!

 

[FullofLove1052]

I do not know him, so therefore I have no opinions on him. Monster? I cannot say that. What I do suspect is that you do not know your worth and value. For the father of your unborn child to tell you that he basically does not care how you feel because he is getting his rocks off is problem. If my husband were to ever say something like to me, I would own his family jewels.

I understand your relationship is important to you, but you should have never been the one to leave your home. Helen should have been the one. It has been 8 or 9 weeks, and she has moved in, continues to have unprotected sex, and is possibly trying to conceive. That is way too fast. Perhaps she can move out. She is the one infringing in your space, disrespecting your feelings, and ultimately disrupting the family.

The 2, 5, and 7 years old need stability, so this dysfunctional mess has to end. It is not fair for them to possibly see or hear him treating you any kind of way. What kind of example is he setting? They do not care that Father Dearest needs to get his rocks off with the new little tenderoni. Since you are determined to stay, I really have no advice. I wish you well.

 

[BoringGuy]

Lightbulb.

Somehow this turned a light on in his head, I think. It's like he just realized I'm carrying a child over here, and that's a hard enough job as it is.

Yeah. He also realized that the housework won't get done, and his other two kids won't have free babysitting. (I'm sure that such a "good dad" has thought of that.) And it's still a little too early to convince the other girlfriend to do those things.

 

[GalaGirl]

I know you all think he's a monster, and may think me weak for trying to salvage the relationship, but this is my family, my whole life. I'm not ready to walk away yet.

I do not have any opinion on his character. I do not know him. I do not approve of some of his BEHAVIORS towards you, and in this skewed dynamic polyship that you are reporting. These behaviors are UGH (understatement).

I see you suffering there, and you have my empathy. This is not easy for you.

I do not think you are weak... I think you are struggling. I just am not sure from your story what you have going on over there, to what degree. I am concerned you may be a Stage 1 or Stage 2 person. If I am wrong, I am willing to stand corrected and rejoice that you are not being hurt to those levels. But I still am not glad to hear you are being hurt at all though via intentional, inconsiderate, or thoughtless behaviors from Garth, Helen, or both of them. No level is a good level of being hurt. You do not deserve poor treatment.

I encourage you to scroll down and read the stages. http://www.speakoutloud.net/contact-me/questions

Whatever it is you decide to try next in your situation, remember you have dignity, worth, and value. Treat yourself with self respect and expect others to do same. Also, please be careful-- you are pregnant and in a strange situation. Do not be afraid to turn to your family of origin (parents) for extra support. Do not stand on ceremony or pride and not avail yourself to aid for you and your children if you need it.

You sound like a nice person and you definitely do not deserve poor treatment. I hope you get to a time/place where you are treated better.

 

[kdt26417]

Amen. I respect you for wanting to save your family, just remember that you do deserve better treatment than what you were getting just prior to your temporary exodus from the house. If/when you go back home, see if G (and H) will continue to treat you better as his words seem to suggest over the phone. Also, it's high time H stopped trying to get pregnant! She can do that later, especially if she and G are going to be together for a long time.

When deciding how much to endure for the sake of saving the family, measure the pros and cons. It's great that G is great with kids -- that's a pro -- but he's still making decisions that are bad for the kids (e.g. having too many at once). That's a con. The pregnancy with H thing is probably the #1 insanity that's got to stop.

Honey, I'm sorry for the heavy burdens that you have to bear.

 

[purpleboots]

Thanks again guys. We all talked last night.

Helen finally gets that they should try to keep it in their pants more, and use discretion about when is an appropriate time for them to be having sex if I'm in the house, especially in light of this breach of trust. I felt supported and cared for by her.

Then the conversation turned to discussion of the potential pregnancy, and everything fell apart. I told them that if they want to have a baby together, right now, that's their right, but that I don't think I can stay and try to salvage the relationship and my family. It's going to be hard enough as it is.

It is very unfortunate that this conversation happened just when the ECP window closed.

They want to have a baby now, and for me to stay and try to make the triad work, with pregnancy and new babies. They don't seem to see how that's insane, and that the only thing I feel I have the power to do is leave.

Helen has stated if there is a pregnancy she will terminate it.

Garth has made it clear he resents me for 'forcing her hand.' None of this should have happened in the first place!

I don't know if my relationship with Garth is salvageable. I love him, I know he loves me, but he refuses to be a real partner to me, support my feelings, be trustworthy, reasonable even! I don't know. I can't keep living in this state of constant stress.

They said it's self imposed, and you just never know what the future will bring.

They don't seem to get that a baby isn't a love totem, it's a person for the rest of their lives. It's a permanent link between all of us. It's a shared responsibility.

I feel like I'm losing my mind, but I'm pretty sure I'm the only one being even remotely sane.

 

[purpleboots]

Helen also said if she has to have an abortion, she won't be able to stay after that. Garth is hurting and resentful of me for that. He's the one who recklessly tried to impregnate her. I have made it clear if they want a baby, that's their choice, but I can't support it.

 

[Natja]

You are the only one being sane and I am glad you jolly well know it!!!

Tying for a baby in the midst of NRE is so incredibly irresponsible. I am pretty shocked that he (being a parent) would not realise that, or care. It is the kind of behaviour that keeps those DNA shows on the air!

 

[FullofLove1052]

I rarely say this, due to my profession, but some people should not be allowed to procreate.

I realise you want to save your family, but you are not in a healthy or even remotely ethical version of a triad. In a healthy triad, things like this would be discussed. I do not care how in love, lust, or like someone is. I have to call it as I see it. Garth is acting like some of these musical artists and sports figures who have baby mums and seeds all over the world. They figure because they are financially supporting them that it makes them a good dad.

There are only 24 hours in a day, and somebody or several somebodies (you and the children) always get the short end. There are already three and a half children present. When the new baby arrives in June, there will be four. A toddler, a newborn, and two older children. Things are already tense in the home, and these two reckless "adults" want to add another little person to the mix and create even more stress? On top of that, they want to add a baby like it is a fashion accessory. Talk about reckless and utterly stupid.

You would lose the little bit of sanity you have left with all those children. I guarantee she would return to work after the maternity leave, and he would continue his job. You would be there with a newborn, an infant, and a toddler. You are not nursery facility. Those are the hardest age groups because they are the most dependent.

I urge you to leave for good.

Garth feels like you would be forcing Helen to have an abortion? Are you kidnapping her, driving her to the clinic, and holding her down? Perhaps he should have thought about all of that before having unprotected sex while she was fertile and ovulating. He can come off it and sit all the way down.

You have family, so you are not alone. I guarantee your parents would not be all right with you stressing out this way. Stress can cause you to go into preterm labour and create problems for that innocent baby. You may love him, but right now, you have to put yourself and your children before that love.

This situation frustrates me. He is being a horrible partner. Helen must be completely blind if she thinks the way he is treating you is okay. You are carrying his child, and he has the balls to resent you because of his recklessness? Unbelievable on all fronts!

 

[SchrodingersCat]

Helen has stated if there is a pregnancy she will terminate it. Garth has made it clear he resents me for 'forcing her hand.' None of this should have happened in the first place! I don't know if my relationship with Garth is salvageable. I love him, I know he loves me, but he refuses to be a real partner to me, support my feelings, be trustworthy, reasonable even! I don't know. I can't keep living in this state of constant stress.

You're not forcing her hand; they forced yours. You're just (finally) standing up for yourself, not allowing them to manipulate you. You and your children have needs: support, stability, sanity. Those are not unreasonable.

He may love you, but his behaviour does not demonstrate respect for you. Now he's all pissy that you're not just letting him be a baby-making factory, with no concern for the mothers of those babies as people, not just incubators.

If anything "forces" Helen to have an abortion, it will be the realization that she will most likely be treated as you are being treated, when the next uterus comes along.

 

[GalaGirl]

This is what I hear. Correct me if I am wrong, ok?

THEIR OFFER:

1) They want to have their own baby now, if she is indeed pregnant from this careless sex they had.​

2) They want me to stay and try to make the triad with pregnancy and new babies work. (I have not seen their how-to plan. Basically they want to me to sign up for a contract I cannot read.)​

3) No apologies, no changes are to be made by them for their objectionable behavior.​

4) Work of future polyship: just me changing to accommodate them. What standard will there be for accountability of all players?​

MY ANSWER:

1) I told them that if they want to keep the unplanned baby, that is their right.​

2) I am not willing to stay in this triad with this unplanned pregnancy, if it is a pregnancy. I hear no plan for how future children would be added to the triad family that I can agree with, if it turns out she is not pregnant at this time.​

3) I am not willing to stay in this triad with no changes to their objectionable behaviors that step on my toes.​

4) I am not willing to agree to carry all the work of a "fly-by-the-seat-of-our-pants" polyship. Where are my cookies in that?​

MY WANTS, NEEDS, AND LIMITS:

• I do not wish to participate in this offer -- being in triad and dealing with their new pregnancy/baby and me carrying the work of the polyship threefold, rather than doing my 1/3 share. No, thank you.
• Their offer does not reduce the crazy stress for me. So I plan to leave.
• I am finding that love is not enough.
• I want real partners. To me, "real partners" demonstrate behaviors that provide emotional support and nurture, build trust, consider me and how their behavior could affect me, and make reasonable requests of me in terms of meeting their wants, needs, and limits.
• I want partners that value children and family the same way I do.
• I want partners that treat me well. The current expectations/standard that G & H want to hold me accountable to, and want me to be willing to go along with, I find objectionable, because this standard is detrimental to my well-being.

HELEN'S COUNTEROFFER FOR ME TO STAY:

1) CURRENT SITUATION:

Helen is willing to abort if she's pregnant right now, so that... I will stay with G? (Why am I responsible for that decision? It is her body, not mine. If she wants to keep it, why offer to terminate? This is weird.)​

2) TRIAD IN FUTURE (IF H IS NOT PREGNANT):

Still no mention of future baby planning from Helen if she is not currently pregnant, or how this would be achieved in harmonious ways.​

​

If she aborts, she will leave. She says that is her limit if she decides to terminate. (So why offer to abort/leave if her offer is me staying and making the triad work? That is also weird. What is her real willingness? Is she just his loudspeaker? )​

​

3) OBJECTIONABLE BEHAVIORS:

Helen says she understands that I find their sex habits inappropriate. She is willing to be more discreet when I am home. (Apology? Other behaviors addressed?)​

​

4) WORK OF POLYSHIP: HONORING EACH OTHER'S WANTS, NEEDS AND LIMITS

How much of the polyship work is Helen carrying in the new offer? What standard does she expect and is willing to be held accountable to? By me and G (not clear)?​

​

GARTH'S COUNTEROFFER FOR ME TO STAY


1) Garth wants to keep the baby if Helen is pregnant now.

2) FUTURE TTC IN TRIAD:

​

No mention of how to TTC the next baby if Helen is not currently pregnant, and how to handle that family planning better in triad.​

3) OBJECTIONABLE BEHAVIORS:

• Apology? Correcting the behaviors that step on my toes? I am not hearing that.
• Garth seems consistent in his behavior of placing his own wants, needs, and limits first, and blame-shifting when things get tough.
• He is not interested in what is good for the group, or what might be good for individuals in the group other than him.
• He does not meet my personal standard for a "real partner" by demonstrating the kinds of behaviors I would like to receive.

4) WORK OF POLYSHIP: HONORING EACH OTHER'S WANTS, NEEDS AND LIMITS

• Garth has made it clear he resents me for having limits of my own for myself by choosing to leave situation that is unsatisfactory to me and letting them carry on without me.
• Garth has made it clear he resents Helen for having limits of her own, if she chooses abortion, and leaving if she aborts.
• Garth wants his own way-- both of us as lovers, pregnant, him doing as he pleases when he pleases, and not meeting our wants, needs, limits. (Maybe he has a breeding fetish. )
• Garth does not articulate what work he is responsible for. What standard does he expect and is willing to be held accountable to, by me and Helen?

CONCLUSION

• Garth articulates no actual new changes or a new offer for the triad. He just offers more of same as before, that is ALREADY not satisfactory to me.
• Helen offers one small change, plus weirdness.
• This is/is not a yummy-sounding offer to me.

They say it's self imposed, and you just never know what the future will bring.

You could agree, purpleboots. Like...

"Yep, it has been self imposed. Me hanging around a stressful situation does not seem to change, so I will change myself, and my attitude toward it.​

​

Yep, you never know what the future will bring. Your next future will not have not in it. Tada! I am changing where I choose to be and what I participate in. I will see if that brings me less stress in my future." ​

You are being the only sane one here. If this is all they offer you? No better offer than that? You could choose to walk away.

*hug*

You are being very sane and very brave in the face of crazy people.

You do not deserve to be treated poorly.

I am glad to hear you are treating yourself with self respect and choosing to obey your own limits of tolerance to preserve your own best health and well-being.

If they are treating you terribly, and trying to push you beyond your tolerance with their unreasonableness, and not showing concern for their partner's health and well-being, you can get away from them. Then he can't be using your soft feelings for him to try to manipulate and guilt you into disobeying your own limits of tolerance, and put up with MORE crazy stressful shenanigans for his benefit. Just because he wants to behave like... a careless, thoughtless, irresponsible, "not held accountable to others, " get my own way kinda dude.

You are not forcing her hand. You are not telling her to go get an abortion. You are telling them they are free to have this baby as they wish, if their careless sex resulted in pregnancy. But you have no desire to share in Helen's pregnancy work or coparenting their baby. You have plenty of work to do already.

People are free to choose, but they are not free from the consequences of their choices.

They choose condom-free sex and breaking a limit. That was the agreement before? No making babies with Helen? You are telling them you cannot stay in a triad that breaks agreements, does not consider your feelings, your well-being. You want to be included in major life decisions, like them bringing forth a child that you are expected to help raise. Even if there is no pregnancy of Helen's to deal with right now, it doesn't change all their other objectionable behaviors. So why stay for more of that? Where are your cookies? You are well within your rights to bow out of a scene that is not healthy for you and you cannot thrive in.

Separate issues even if on the same triad plate.

If they are asking you to stay in a situation that is unhealthy for you, that you cannot thrive in, that's not love, in my book.

I will continue to hope you can get to good space where you are treated well.

Again, you have worth, dignity, and value. I will keep saying this to you, over and over.

 

[IndieSolo]

Good analysis there.

Also, what fantastical solution does Garth have for paying for the pregnancy and birth, and financially supporting the raising of all these children? I assume he expects you to stay home and take care of his whole brood. He has been treating you like a live-in nanny.

Magdlyn said it already-- this is a sick fetish Garth has, of "spreading his seed" and fathering as many babies as possible, but without really being a father, because it is obvious he has no regard for the quality of not only their lives, but their mothers' lives. Just because he knows how to play with kids, or feed them, doesn't mean he is a good father or partner. He sounds like a misogynist, actually.

DO NOT STAY WITH GARTH. HE IS SICK AND NEEDS HELP.

IGNORE HELEN. SHE IS CLUELESS.

GET OUT AND SAVE YOURSELF AND YOUR BABIES!!!

There are plenty other men out there know how to cherish and treat a woman with respect and real love. He is not one of them!

DO NOT WAVER!

 

[InsideItsRaining]

They want to have a baby now, and for me to stay and try to make the triad with pregnancies and new babies work. They don't seem to see how that's insane, and that the only thing I feel I have the power to do is leave. Helen has stated if there is a pregnancy she will terminate it. Garth has made it clear he resents me for 'forcing her hand.'

With regard to the above, if it were me, my response to G&H would be as follows:

While I understand and can appreciate the fact that you both would like to continue this triad and have a baby together, you, in turn, must understand that I was not given the option on the front end to have a say, as I am just now being made privy to your plans. I wish you had extended the courtesy of honesty to me and discussed this situation (example: having unprotected sex with the intent of pregnancy) with me, in lieu of telling me after the fact. It is only then that you can make an argument for justifying your actions, as I was not made aware of your imminent intent to add another child to our increasingly difficult situation.

Perhaps you can appreciate my surprise in finding out that you were having unprotected sex, as I was left to make this discovery on my own. Your dishonesty has left me broken, not just for myself, but for that of all 3 of us, and most importantly, the children.

I wanted this to work, but painfully, you both chose to close the lines of communication and exclude me from the equation. It is important that you understand how I feel. It is important that you respect my feelings, as they are my own, I am my own, and I am important and deserving of a loving, trusting environment and relationship/s that I can thrive in.

So my response to you and your plans is nothing more than a reaction to your actions.

Furthermore, you don't get to blame me! You don't get to resent me for reacting to the choices you made, as I will not feel an ounce of fault in Helen's decision to abort, should she choose to.

Again, I reiterate, I am simply reacting to your actions, to the choices you have made without including me or my input. I didn't ask for this. I'm not asking for this. Therefore, don't expect me to conform to your thought process. It was your choices, your behaviors that have led us here, and you are the ones who must face the consequences and own them.

Finally, at this time, I cannot commit to moving forward in this arrangement if another baby is brought into the mix. Hear me when I say that I am NOT advocating abortion. Again, I am simply reacting to the recent chain of events imposed upon me without my knowledge. Therefore, I do not accept any ownership in the "forcing of hands," as I did not choose this to begin with. That lies with the both of you. So the choice is, once again, yours to make. I reserve and fully intend on exercising my right to choose, as well.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Purpleboots, I know I have repeated myself over and over again, but It just seems as if they are both completely disconnected from you and your feelings. The only way you can make them understand is to beat it into their heads repeatedly until they listen to you, and even then they may never get it. You must be clear and concise. Leave no room for them to misunderstand.

You have to set the expectations up front. Whatever you decide, if you and Garth stay together, and Helen leaves after the abortion, I can assure you that Garth will most likely try and use the abortion (if it happens) as a means to manipulate you in the future. This is why you must make him understand. I just worry that he will use this against you in the future, if you choose to stay together. And let's be honest, it would be such a burden for you to carry any guilt for that, should it happen.

Also, the children may not know outright that Helen is more involved with you and Garth, but they will begin to sense a shift in the dynamic of the household. Children are a product of their environment. If you don't put a stop to this pattern of behavior immediately, then you can anticipate that the children are going to see this as "normal adult behavior," and it's highly possible that they could grow up and allow others to take advantage of them too, or learn to be disrespectful and careless, like their father is. It's imperative that you get this situation under control. If not for yourself, then please, I beg you, do it for the kids. You seem like an extremely loving and responsible parent, so try and look at it from their perspective. And through that process, maybe you will find the answers you seek.

I respect your desire to work through your marriage, as that is the vow you made. So I get it. I'm not saying Garth is all bad, as I'm sure he must have some good qualities for you to have married him.

I'm not an expert on this subject, as I guess I'm what you'd call a poly virgin. But I have learned enough to know that any type of relationship needs open lines of communication, trust, honesty, respect and lots of love.

Finally, I want to say thank you. I appreciate you being so candid about your situation. If its any consolation, you have opened my eyes to an abundance of things that I need to incorporate into my own polyamory journey, once it begins. I truly hope you achieve the outcome you desire. Wherever life leads you, may you find the solace to live a happy and fulfilling life. Best wishes to you and your family.