Sounds like you folks are a bit more realistic than others.
"Red Flags" - Warning Signs in Relationships
- Thread starter lola
- Start date
Sounds like you folks are a bit more realistic than others.
LovingRadiance
Active member
"Go!" on the white flags.
Me too. It's just not that hard to understand that, generally speaking, it takes two to make or break it. So that means you can change the dynamic of a relationship from lovers to friendship without too much difficulty, if you are both mature and adult about it.
An observation
Laino here. I'm the mono husband of Lola. One thing I have noticed from one of our experiences (I say "our experiences," as a mono partner is also part of the poly partner's relationships) is that kind of sitting outside of the NRE, the non-involved partner may notice "red flags" quicker than the involved poly partner. Just an observation.
By the way, it is nice to be here.
Laino here. I'm the mono husband of Lola. One thing I have noticed from one of our experiences (I say "our experiences," as a mono partner is also part of the poly partner's relationships) is that kind of sitting outside of the NRE, the non-involved partner may notice "red flags" quicker than the involved poly partner. Just an observation.
By the way, it is nice to be here.
From my perspective, this seems pretty true for us. He sees things I don't see and on occasion I even see something here and there.
It's nice to know someone has your back, even when they are trying to point out something that might be wrong or just questionable. That is, after all, them caring enough to help you avoid a few pitfalls.
rosevett
New member
Red Flag list add on
These are IMO, so might not be for everyone.
~ refusing to meet partners
~ being overly sexual before really getting to know you (I think someone mentioned that)
~ values that don't align with our family (values are subjective)
~ not being respectful of family time
~ creator of drama - SHOOT ME NOW
~ someone that does not provide a safe emotional environment for conversations/discussions.
I'm sure I have more, but it's a start.
Welcome, Laino. Nice to meet you too!
These are IMO, so might not be for everyone.
~ refusing to meet partners
~ being overly sexual before really getting to know you (I think someone mentioned that)
~ values that don't align with our family (values are subjective)
~ not being respectful of family time
~ creator of drama - SHOOT ME NOW
~ someone that does not provide a safe emotional environment for conversations/discussions.
I'm sure I have more, but it's a start.
Welcome, Laino. Nice to meet you too!
This is exactly one of the two major things my husband is good for (not including sex of course).
The second thing is that he deals with the public world on my behalf when I can't handle it. I have a tendency to rub authority figures the wrong way and to piss off those who are in a position to grant or withhold something that I require. Husband has the ability to take control of situations that are not stacked in my favour.
Sweetheart
New member
I agree with Laino & Lola on this. We have noticed it ourselves. The non-involved partner is able to spot "red flags" a lot quicker. The trick is to make sure you're not projecting non-existent red flags!
Erosa
New member
The biggest red flags I have found are these two:
1) Secretive or obsessed with 'privacy.' Someone who makes the consequences for talking about 'their' business (even if it's also YOUR business) unbearably emotionally high.
2) Someone who doesn't want people to know they are taken. I don't mean someone who is closeted about poly, I mean someone who doesn't want other people to know they are anything other than single.
1) Secretive or obsessed with 'privacy.' Someone who makes the consequences for talking about 'their' business (even if it's also YOUR business) unbearably emotionally high.
2) Someone who doesn't want people to know they are taken. I don't mean someone who is closeted about poly, I mean someone who doesn't want other people to know they are anything other than single.
thunkybunny
New member
Sadly, that isn't so reliable when that partner manipulates the situation out of jealousy, given their partner's NRE. Kinda lame, really. I guess it means that the established relationship is too weak for new partners to enter.
thunkybunny
New member
Coded messages:
"I want a relationship with no expectations." = I don't want a relationship
"Just friends, casual" = I don't love my friends. (I don't have many friends either.)
"I don't like drama." = I take no responsibility for the dramas that I create.
"Erring on the side of caution" = I'm waaay too scared to do this thoughtfully, so I'll just default to doing nothing, since doing nothing is the safest and most comfortable strategy against adapting to change.
"Going at the pace of the slowest person/the weakest link" = Everybody stop what they're doing while I avoid doing any work to adapt to the new situation. Meanwhile, I'll actively sabotage the new relationship.
"I need time to develop trust." = My partner trusts you, but I don't trust my partner's judgment. I don't love my partner either, but nobody else can be with them.
"To protect my investment/wife/husband/family" = I see you as a foreign threat, not one of us. I do not value anything you have to offer. I must burn down the village in order to save the village.
"Not ready to be friends" = I need more time to sabotage the new relationship.
"I want respect." = But only for the established relationship(s) and partner(s). New relationship(s) and partner(s) do not deserve respect.
"You are the secondary." = Kiss my ass and do what I say.
"I have xx years of experience." = I don't have anything to learn.
"We practice tantric sex." = So I'm melded with my partner 24/7, even when they're in the bathroom.
"I'm Buddhist." = I'm more spiritual than you. I have nothing to learn.
"Personal power" = You have neither the right nor the reason to feel bad about the way I treat you.
"Emotional maturity" = I have mistaken stoicism for emotional maturity. When I act out my emotions, I am reasonable. When other people express their doubts and emotions, they are emotionally immature.
"I want a relationship with no expectations." = I don't want a relationship
"Just friends, casual" = I don't love my friends. (I don't have many friends either.)
"I don't like drama." = I take no responsibility for the dramas that I create.
"Erring on the side of caution" = I'm waaay too scared to do this thoughtfully, so I'll just default to doing nothing, since doing nothing is the safest and most comfortable strategy against adapting to change.
"Going at the pace of the slowest person/the weakest link" = Everybody stop what they're doing while I avoid doing any work to adapt to the new situation. Meanwhile, I'll actively sabotage the new relationship.
"I need time to develop trust." = My partner trusts you, but I don't trust my partner's judgment. I don't love my partner either, but nobody else can be with them.
"To protect my investment/wife/husband/family" = I see you as a foreign threat, not one of us. I do not value anything you have to offer. I must burn down the village in order to save the village.
"Not ready to be friends" = I need more time to sabotage the new relationship.
"I want respect." = But only for the established relationship(s) and partner(s). New relationship(s) and partner(s) do not deserve respect.
"You are the secondary." = Kiss my ass and do what I say.
"I have xx years of experience." = I don't have anything to learn.
"We practice tantric sex." = So I'm melded with my partner 24/7, even when they're in the bathroom.
"I'm Buddhist." = I'm more spiritual than you. I have nothing to learn.
"Personal power" = You have neither the right nor the reason to feel bad about the way I treat you.
"Emotional maturity" = I have mistaken stoicism for emotional maturity. When I act out my emotions, I am reasonable. When other people express their doubts and emotions, they are emotionally immature.
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thunkybunny
New member
My friends tell me that I am too blunt with people, and people who don't know me well mistake that for hostility. I have witnessed other people make the above or similar statements, then act in ways that matched the translations. It's a pickle. Everybody lies, but some also lie to themselves habitually. I don't want to be unkind, but maybe it is best to stay far away from some people who need a sense of hierarchy in order to feel good about themselves. The same goes for conflict-avoidant people who are too afraid of rejection to be honest with themselves and others. It's sad really, because hierarchies preclude the possibility of partnerships/friendships. They criminalize love.
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Breathesgirl
New member
For me, those red flags are:
1. Someone who thrives on drama. If you ain't an actress, and actually acting, don't bother, because I won't bite.
2. I will try to explain this one as succinctly as possible-- someone who gives me a glare when I find the two of them off in a corner, and that glare says something to the effect of "Haha! He's with me now and I'm not letting you have him back!"
3. Someone who can't/won't find a babysitter so you can have an hour or so of adult time, instead of dragging all parties, including two kids under the age of 5, to a McYuck's playland to have a poly/BDSM conversation.
4. DADT--YMMV on this one but I don't do them because they feel dishonest to me and it also feels like the other partner(s) are getting the short shrift.
5. Someone who is wanting my guy as a fuck buddy and won't make the child-free time for me to ask what questions I need to ask in order for me to feel secure. Orrrrrrrrrr, boyfriend's FWB and I do manage an adult night out and she leaves me alone for 1.5 hours in a city an hour from home, dependent on her for transportation home, in a bar full of people I don't know, so she can go have a lap dance.
Sorry, this was, unfortunately, a partial rant. *sigh* I thought I had dealt with this baggage. Guess not.
I will also go along with meeting the partners. I INSIST on it. If it doesn't happen within a reasonable amount of time, we don't happen.
1. Someone who thrives on drama. If you ain't an actress, and actually acting, don't bother, because I won't bite.
2. I will try to explain this one as succinctly as possible-- someone who gives me a glare when I find the two of them off in a corner, and that glare says something to the effect of "Haha! He's with me now and I'm not letting you have him back!"
3. Someone who can't/won't find a babysitter so you can have an hour or so of adult time, instead of dragging all parties, including two kids under the age of 5, to a McYuck's playland to have a poly/BDSM conversation.
4. DADT--YMMV on this one but I don't do them because they feel dishonest to me and it also feels like the other partner(s) are getting the short shrift.
5. Someone who is wanting my guy as a fuck buddy and won't make the child-free time for me to ask what questions I need to ask in order for me to feel secure. Orrrrrrrrrr, boyfriend's FWB and I do manage an adult night out and she leaves me alone for 1.5 hours in a city an hour from home, dependent on her for transportation home, in a bar full of people I don't know, so she can go have a lap dance.
Sorry, this was, unfortunately, a partial rant. *sigh* I thought I had dealt with this baggage. Guess not.
I will also go along with meeting the partners. I INSIST on it. If it doesn't happen within a reasonable amount of time, we don't happen.
SchrodingersCat
Active member
re:
- 1st one: I don't like drama, but when I overreact I take responsibility for it.
- 2nd one: I would have to agree with you here... most people I've met who feel the need to boast and quantify their experience generally come across to me as braggers and I seldomly find I have much to learn from them.
- 3rd one: well if that's your only experience with tantric practices, major bummer, dude... My husband introduced me to tantra and it is utterly amazing, which is why I just picked up a couple books to learn more about it.
These are just my personal reactions.. Of course, everyone has different experiences, and I'm by no means claiming that everyone who says these things is from a positive perspective. But sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
thunkybunny
New member
Hehehe. Yeah, well the last one was kinda lame as the person saying it was implying that NOBODY ELSE could have private intimate time with HIS wife. Definitely not ready for poly at all.
Seasnail
New member
I would like to learn more about what you mean. What kind of a line are you drawing between privacy and sharing, and what kind of emotional consequences are you thinking about?
thunkybunny
New member
Privacy needs to be negotiated. Privacy is required if there is to be intimacy. One part of intimacy is information management. Possessive, insecure, fearful people do not allow their partners any privacy (e.g., personal journals/diaries). Excessive need for privacy may indicate a weakness in the relationship where one partner does not feel safe about sharing information, either due to past experiences with a partner, or a general pattern of anti-love from sharing information (e.g., abusive parents). It is worth investigating the dynamic in a given situation to see whether it is a problem with the relationship or something personal.
'In a relationship' may be more useful a description than 'taken' or 'single' regardless of the life/lovestyle, since it emphasizes choice rather than possession.
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My warnings
The biggest tip-off for me that there's a problem is the relationship being really stuck on the same ground, which is a problem for one person and not the others, with no evidence that the stuck person is working on being stuck, or cares that they are. Opening up the relationship doesn't work if one person is giving no ground on the opening-- demanding hardcore restrictions that aren't going to be temporary at all. (It was 'no making out' in my case, and I still get angry thinking about it years later. Clearly I still have healing to do.
)
Also, I'd like to defend someone else's side of things. I wouldn't ever be in a 'don't ask, don't tell' relationship personally, but a good friend of mine is "the other woman" in one, and the situation is very stable and loving for all parties. Her lover and his wife have had a DADT policy for their entire twenty-year marriage, with the rule that if she asks, he has to tell-- she just chooses not to ask. She's apparently exercised that right a few times, but not about my friend. My friend actually goes over to their house for dinner regularly, spends a lot of time with his whole family (children included), and is good friends with her lover's wife. They just have an arrangement where they don't discuss the sexual details, and it works very well for them, has for a few years. My point is just that, even if it's a red flag for you, it might not be for everybody... I do suspect what they're doing doesn't work this well often, but I'd rather we not completely write it off.
That's all I've got for now!
The biggest tip-off for me that there's a problem is the relationship being really stuck on the same ground, which is a problem for one person and not the others, with no evidence that the stuck person is working on being stuck, or cares that they are. Opening up the relationship doesn't work if one person is giving no ground on the opening-- demanding hardcore restrictions that aren't going to be temporary at all. (It was 'no making out' in my case, and I still get angry thinking about it years later. Clearly I still have healing to do.
)Also, I'd like to defend someone else's side of things.
I wouldn't ever be in a 'don't ask, don't tell' relationship personally, but a good friend of mine is "the other woman" in one, and the situation is very stable and loving for all parties. Her lover and his wife have had a DADT policy for their entire twenty-year marriage, with the rule that if she asks, he has to tell-- she just chooses not to ask. She's apparently exercised that right a few times, but not about my friend. My friend actually goes over to their house for dinner regularly, spends a lot of time with his whole family (children included), and is good friends with her lover's wife. They just have an arrangement where they don't discuss the sexual details, and it works very well for them, has for a few years. My point is just that, even if it's a red flag for you, it might not be for everybody... I do suspect what they're doing doesn't work this well often, but I'd rather we not completely write it off.That's all I've got for now!
thunkybunny
New member
The biggest tip-off for me that there's a problem is the relationship being really stuck on the same ground, which is a problem for one person and not the others, with no evidence that the stuck person is working on being stuck, or cares that (s)he is. Opening up the relationship doesn't work if one person is giving no ground on the opening-- demanding hardcore restrictions that aren't going to be temporary at all. (It was 'no making out' in my case, and I still get angry thinking about it years later.. clearly I still have healing to do.
Ugh! Then there's the double standard when one partner has few restrictions while another has many. It's retarded (pun intended).