How do I even start to explain??

Realising now how narrow minded the people around me are. Talked with my husband about what I believe now. He wanted me to open with him about it. He now thinks I am mentally unstable or influenced by the demonic. So...that's nice right? :(
 
Realising now how narrow minded the people around me are. Talked with my husband about what I believe now. He wanted me to open with him about it. He now thinks I am mentally unstable or influenced by the demonic. So...that's nice right? :(

There is NOTHING wrong with you !
 
He now thinks I am mentally unstable or influenced by the demonic. So...that's nice right?

Could let him take care of his feelings/thoughts. It's not about you.

Same as the letter from church. That wasn't about you either.

Galagirl
 
Demons!!! Mwahaha!

Satan is always riding on your left shoulder just trying to tempt you to your doom.

Yada yada, 2000 year old beliefs, when we have scientists exploring black holes and the most inner recesses of our brains.

Yeah, that's gonna work.

Don't tell me, these people also believe in exorcism to help gay people turn straight... right?

smh
 
Could let him take care of his feelings/thoughts. It's not about you.

Same as the letter from church. That wasn't about you either.

Galagirl

I know what you are saying, but how can I be in a trusting, happy, healthy relationship with someone who thinks that about me? That's my issue. I know he loves me, but how do you get over a hurdle like that?

I can ignore letters from people in the church. They are well meaning. but when your own mother and husband both think that about you...I don't know. It's hard to swallow. I said in jest that I would go get a psychiatrist check me out to prove I'm not insane and get the church to pray over me to dispell demons if that would help him. He said he thought that was a good idea.
 
Demons!!! Mwahaha!

Satan is always riding on your left shoulder just trying to tempt you to your doom.

Yada yada, 2000 year old beliefs, when we have scientists exploring black holes and the most inner recesses of our brains.

Yeah, that's gonna work.

Don't tell me, these people also believe in exorcism to help gay people turn straight... right?

smh

Probably. But my husband thinks my desire to explore my sexuality with the same sex is due to a chemical imbalance. Really...I just find some women attractive and would quite like to have that experience with a woman I care about.

but that's a whole other conversation!!

Have I already mentioned that I wrote him a letter? After our argument about beliefs and him saying those things to me the next morning I wrote him a letter so say how hurtful the things he said were. I also mentioned that he's not open to my thoughts at all and I mentioned polyamory and how I feel that it's okay. (I'm easing into it...I didn't say I'm poly) He got home from work and didn't say anything about it l. I asked if he'd read the letter and he said yes. He said he loves me for me and not my beliefs but he doesn't agree with what I'm doing.

Where do you go from there?!
 
Realising now how narrow minded the people around me are.


Journey, may I ask, do you live in a remote area? This view of people (that variations in life choices are the result of demonic possession and mental illness) is pretty hard to find in cities and urban areas. I never run into this attitude and I live in the midst of millions. It seems that in order for people to perpetuate this view of people, they must live a fairly sequestered life. Do you have access to people outside your community? Instead of struggling so much to get your husband to see things from your POV, you might consider developing friendships outside of this very particular and very narrow religious community and this would help you in many ways. There are even many churches that are much more inclusion based and not so oriented toward judgement. It would really help you to be in the company of people who share some of your religious/spiritual values but are not nearly so interested in judging others' choices. I suppose my point is that it's not all or nothing for you. If your husband and mother are very set in their ways, you will be needing support and love from other sources, which is certainly doable if you live in an area with a variety of people.
 
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I know what you are saying, but how can I be in a trusting, happy, healthy relationship with someone who thinks that about me? That's my issue. I know he loves me, but how do you get over a hurdle like that?

He said he loves me for me and not my beliefs but he doesn't agree with what I'm doing. Where do you go from there?!

If he is in rational brain space, you could ask him to clarify what behavior you are doing that he objects to.

  • telling him what is going on with your inner life?
  • updating your beliefs to match where you are at as an adult at this point in time?
  • Something else?

If he is still in emotional brain space, you could hold space. It is part of what makes relationships happy/healthy in the long run. Being able to endure and manage rough spots in the short run with grace by holding space and not both wigging out.

Not hold space forever, obviously. Because if you are now incompatible for marriage together there is no way around that other than dissolve the union.

But you could remember you JUST told him lots of stuff. So give him some time to process and digest all he way. Could hold space for a time so he can get his bearings. He's been set to wobbling and bobbling about like you pushed a rubber duckie under in the swimming pool. It's going to FWOOSH! back up and wobble for a while before it chills out again and stablizes.

Emotional flooding happens. He sounds like he emotionally flooded and in fear response tried to "push it away" from him. Like it has to be you are unstable in the head or it is the devil. Just some OTHER thing making him feel yucky.

Then you sound like you emotionally flooded and sent a letter to him.

Could STOP. Wait. Breathe.

It's how the brain works -- it hits emotional brain before moving up to rational brain. Wait some time for it to get to the "top floor" first. Both on his side and on yours. Don't be triggering and retriggering each other into emotional flooding.

For you it is not news. You have been marinating this in your head for a while. For him it's a zing, so hold space and gift him some time to catch up in. If he's busy with his "Aaaahhhh!" stuff, he cannot hear you yet. Wait. Don't go off into your own "Aaaahhh!" thing compounding stuff.

While waiting, could think of ways to move forward together. If this is about your religious beliefs, could suggest reading Fowler together. Or McClennan. Read them on your own while waiting if you want.

Let him think of his own suggestions for how to move forward together. He might not be at that place yet -- has to get bearings first. So practice patience while waiting for him to "arrive."

My advice is to ignore it if he says stupid things from an emotional place for the next little while. Don't take it personally or go off thinking the marriage is doomed. Talk yourself down from that anxiety mountain. Be more grounded.

Respond with "I see you are scared and this is strange. I am sorry. I see it hurts for you right now. How can I help you a little bit today? To feel a bit more calm and at peace? Make you some tea? It is new to me too. Please don't tell me ___. Please remember I need words of kindness right now also."

You have your own load to be carrying right now. You cannot carry his load for him also. Maintain boundaries in loving kindness. He could carry his thoughts and feelings himself, and express them appropriately to appropriate people. If he's overloading you, suggest he see a counselor to help him carry his load. Or suggest that you see one together. You can also see one individually if you want.

Comfort in, kvetch out. And right now? Both of you are inner ring people. Both could strive to remember that.

Both of you could value the "long term health of the shared relationship" through this time of change above "personal comfort" or above "being the one who is right." Whatever you faith paths are right now, could practice confidence that actions rooted in good character will yield the best outcome even when you do not see how.

And in doing so, agree to hold space and not pick at each other while figuring out next steps. Picking at a loved one like a spouse is not a behavior keeping in good character.

Healthy relationships can grow together as well as allowing the individuals to grow individually.

I said in jest that I would go get a psychiatrist check me out to prove I'm not insane and get the church to pray over me to dispell demons if that would help him. He said he thought that was a good idea.

I do not recommend you joke about serious things that matter to you. How do you teach others to take you seriously like that?

That is not a good idea. Because then it could become the song of "No. That doesn't count. You picked a quack to go to that would just say you are not crazy and I'm being crazy."

It also reinforces the idea that you cannot think for yourself. That you need someone else's stamp of approval on what you think to make it valid for you.

It also reinforces the idea that you have to carry his uncomfortable thoughts and feelings for him. Or that you (or his church praying people) are responsible for making his uncomfortable feelings go away. Rather than him working THROUGH his feelings to dispel them. HE is responsible for dealing with his emotional management. If he needs support for that, he could see a counselor for himself and support him in that work.

If you want to see a counselor for yourself, it is for YOURSELF. Not to be "proving" things to other people.

Galagirl
 
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Probably. But my husband thinks my desire to explore my sexuality with the same sex is due to a chemical imbalance. Really...I just find some women attractive and would quite like to have that experience with a woman I care about.

but that's a whole other conversation!!

Have I already mentioned that I wrote him a letter? After our argument about beliefs and him saying those things to me the next morning I wrote him a letter so say how hurtful the things he said were. I also mentioned that he's not open to my thoughts at all and I mentioned polyamory and how I feel that it's okay. (I'm easing into it...I didn't say I'm poly) He got home from work and didn't say anything about it l. I asked if he'd read the letter and he said yes. He said he loves me for me and not my beliefs but he doesn't agree with what I'm doing.

Where do you go from there?!
You wait it out. You just asked him to possably change the foundations on which your marriage is based. It would be the same if you said, oh by the way, I really love you but to be happy I want to live in the Antartic because I crave the cold. Or if you said, I love you honey and I know we used to eat but from now on, if you want to be with me the family must eat only powder.

It is really not like he can say overnight sure love, never thought about you fucking other people (your new male friend, other women, possably more), but hey, knock yourself out. If you fall in love I guess we willl find some way to deal. It is not like trying on a new flavour of ice cream. It takes a whole lot of adjusting even if you are rather open-minded.

It took me and my husband almost five years to get to a place where the idea of me dating another man did not, at least at times, make my husband want to cry himself to sleep. In the end, he was open to me dating, he just hated the person I had found. so when I found N, he could not have been more relieved because we had been through what non-communication feels like and N is like that only to a small degree.
 
... my husband thinks my desire to explore my sexuality with the same sex is due to a chemical imbalance.

Sigh... which is it, demons or chemistry? Ancient Hebraic/Greek beliefs or modern understanding of the brain and gender identity and sexual preference?

I agree with other posters that he isn't going to "get it" about poly and bisexuality overnight. But stick to your guns.

My ex husband of 30 years resisted, misunderstood, and mocked me for being bi (although we were monogamous) for the first 20 years of our relationship. In the last 10 years, he started to accept it, and ... celebrate it insofar as it might get him a threeway.

We broke up in 2008. I obviously stayed in the relationship far too long out of a misguided loyalty and stubbornness, and some fear of the unknown. Ex h was not a conservative Christian, but he was raised in Pennsyltucky and some of the narrow mindedness stuck.
 
Years ago, I knew a few conservative Christians who said that, while they accept the medical community's assertion that mental illness is caused by a chemical imbalance, they believed that imbalance was an attempt by Satan to prevent people from reaching out to God.

Yes, seriously.

So Journey's husband might see it as both...

Aside from that, though, Journey, there is NOTHING wrong with you. You were created the way you are. If the people in your life can't accept that, it isn't your fault. If they can't look past *their* definition of God to recognize that, if they truly believe God created us all, that means he created all the things they're condemning... that's on them.

I'm sorry you're struggling so much with this, and especially that your husband and mother have reacted as they have. As you said, it's one thing for friends or church-buddies to respond negatively. They're easier to ignore. But when it's your loved ones, that makes it so much more difficult.

Good luck. You're being true to yourself, and sometimes that's the hardest thing we can ever do. But you aren't alone.
 
i said in jest that I would go get a psychiatrist check me out to prove I'm not insane and get the church to pray over me to dispell demons if that would help him. He said he thought that was a good idea.
Well, i think this is actually good news, but get yourself to a counsellour, and after a few sessions, if you connect with the counsellour, you could invite him along.
 
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Re (from KC43):
"Years ago, I knew a few conservative Christians who said that, while they accept the medical community's assertion that mental illness is caused by a chemical imbalance, they believed that imbalance was an attempt by Satan to prevent people from reaching out to God."

Kind of like how Satan buried all those "dinosaur bones" to trick us into being atheists, eh?

He's a tricky guy. We can't be too careful.
 
I don't want to bash the Christian community because ultimately, that has been my life and I understand where they are coming from. The people in my church are not bad people, they're doing great things for their community and they believe their beliefs are 100% correct. And that's fine. I just wish they were more open-minded. I read a quote that said "Open-minded people do not impose their beliefs on others. They just accept all of life's perspectives and realities, doing their own thing in peace without judging anyone".

I just wish that they wouldn't judge me. I'm not doing anything to hurt anyone. Even with poly, I know it'll be hard to understand for some people but I'm not 'being this way' to be hurtful to anyone. I just love a lot. Is love so bad? I don't think so. I don't think it should be exclusive either.

I wanted to have the poly talk with my husband last night. I said that I'd like to discuss the letter that I wrote him. He said he thought we could just agree to disagree. I said that if it affects him and our marriage then we ought to discuss it. He said he didn't see how it would affect anything. So he knows I'm okay with people being poly but he hasn't caught on that I am actually poly. But he didn't want to talk about anything last night because he was too tired.
 
Journey, you didn't answer a previous poster about finding a community of like-minded friends. I see you're in the UK, not in the Bible Belt USA. I think of England as being (mostly) Church of England, which is getting to be quite liberal, open to female clergy and welcoming of the gay community. So how did you get to be stuck with a bunch of fundies? Can you branch out some?

Or are dealing with a conservative old fashioned Catholic community?

Your husband is stonewalling you. He is refusing to talk about something extremely important to you. Offering to just sweep it under the rug and pretend it doesn't exist. That might work for HIM, but what about you? This is YOUR life, and life is short and, imo, if it isn't lived authentically, we are not taking advantage of the beauty it does offer for the short time we are here. This issue will become more and more the elephant in the room. Elephants make huge lumps under the carpet.

I hear you say you wish the community wouldn't judge you. It's OK to wish for things... But that's on them. They are going to judge. It's what YOU do that counts. And there is a lot you can do! You can't change others. You can only change yourself. Others will then respond to the changes in YOU. They may react badly. You may feel very uncomfortable. You can't seek comfort from them, in fact, they now feel uncomfortable around you!

Many fundies do live with doubts of their own... repressing them and projecting them. The most virulent gay bashers are usually repressing their own gay or bi feelings. Likewise, the ones most disgusted with monogamy personally are often its staunchest supporters, since they are repressing their own doubts or feelings of being tied down. We see politicians in the US a lot who vote against gay marriage, are huge homophobes, but are then found to be sneaking around with same sex partners.

You CAN seek comfort and coping skills here on this board, or from a therapist, from a new community of friends IRL you search for, find, and start spending time with. If you get together with atheists, intellectuals, pagans, liberal Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, reform Jews, creative brave people, etc., who fully reject these fundie Christian ideas, it can make a huge difference. Just to be with people who think in entirely different ways can really help you feel more secure, affirmed and nourished by your changing belief system.
 
Journey, you didn't answer a previous poster about finding a community of like-minded friends. I see you're in the UK, not in the Bible Belt USA. I think of England as being (mostly) Church of England, which is getting to be quite liberal, open to female clergy and welcoming of the gay community. So how did you get to be stuck with a bunch of fundies? Can you branch out some?

Or are dealing with a conservative old fashioned Catholic community?

Your husband is stonewalling you. He is refusing to talk about something extremely important to you. Offering to just sweep it under the rug and pretend it doesn't exist. That might work for HIM, but what about you? This is YOUR life, and life is short and, imo, if it isn't lived authentically, we are not taking advantage of the beauty it does offer for the short time we are here. This issue will become more and more the elephant in the room. Elephants make huge lumps under the carpet.

I hear you say you wish the community wouldn't judge you. It's OK to wish for things... But that's on them. They are going to judge. It's what YOU do that counts. And there is a lot you can do! You can't change others. You can only change yourself. Others will then respond to the changes in YOU. They may react badly. You may feel very uncomfortable. You can't seek comfort from them, in fact, they now feel uncomfortable around you!

Many fundies do live with doubts of their own... repressing them and projecting them. The most virulent gay bashers are usually repressing their own gay or bi feelings. Likewise, the ones most disgusted with monogamy personally are often its staunchest supporters, since they are repressing their own doubts or feelings of being tied down. We see politicians in the US a lot who vote against gay marriage, are huge homophobes, but are then found to be sneaking around with same sex partners.

You CAN seek comfort and coping skills here on this board, or from a therapist, from a new community of friends IRL you search for, find, and start spending time with. If you get together with atheists, intellectuals, pagans, liberal Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, reform Jews, creative brave people, etc., who fully reject these fundie Christian ideas, it can make a huge difference. Just to be with people who think in entirely different ways can really help you feel more secure, affirmed and nourished by your changing belief system.

I am dealing with evangelical/charismatics. I guess the UK equivalent of fundamentalists although I've never actually heard that word! Everything is all about the Bible, love the sinner but hate the sin, care for the community and bring them to Christ. There is no freedom without Jesus. Power of the Holy Spirit, bringing heaven to earth kinda thing.

I haven't rejected spirituality completely. I still believe in a spiritual realm and that we all have souls. I could go into everything I believe but I'm not sure what purpose it would serve. Anything they don't understand they label as demonic. Basically.

I don't have a support network as such. I have some open minded friends who are supportive but I wouldn't even know how to go about finding people who believe what I do, as it isn't classed as anything in particular. I don't believe in the Bible or that we need any kind of saviour so I won't fit in at any church. That's okay with me. But I need to find likeminded people.

My husband does shut out problems that he doesn't know how to deal with. His communication isn't great. And my response to his lack of communication isn't great either because I just get frustrated. We have some work to do

I'm hoping to talk to him about it tonight. If he lets me. Really, the best outcome would be for him to say he's had feelings for other women too! Because right now I just feel like the 'bad guy' *deep breaths* I shouldn't have to feel this anxious about discussing my thoughts and feelings with him.
 
Re:
"There is no freedom without Jesus."

Such doctrine comes dangerously close to rejecting the proverb, "Live and let live." It doesn't say, "There's no freedom for me without Jesus." It implies, "There's no freedom for anyone without Jesus." Thus justifying pushing "Jesus" onto persons such as myself. I guess when I am pushed I push back, in the form of making fun of religion. It all seems so bizarre to me. I don't know if there ever was an actual Jesus, much less a God-man named Jesus. Has anyone seen him in the last nearly-2000 years? I don't think so.

It's good when a church does charitable service to the poor, hungry, and down-and-out. Much like how it's good when the military helps hurricane victims get back on their feet. It's just that I wish the military could do that without pursuing the primary function of killing people.

I should probably "live and let live" more myself. Sometimes it's hard to be an atheist. Estimates of total atheists worldwide seem to range around 15%. In the United States, the figure is 4% (per Wikipedia). Seems like almost everyone believes in some kind of spirit world. But I suppose that's not really any of my beeswax. It's even off-topic, for which I apologize.
 
Journeyofawakening,

Do you have Unitarian Universalism in the UK? I am not sure if they are a US only group. The 'UU's as they call themselves developed out of Protestant Christianity - however they are not considered 'Christian' generally because they require no faith in Jesus, or God, for that matter. They welcome all kinds of spiritual paths. I've known people who were agnostic, atheist, pagan who went to UU congregations and got a lot out of it. If they exist in the UK, you might find them a welcoming community.

Also do you have meetup.com in the UK? Or something similar? If you do, type in 'spiritual' into the search box and just see what comes up in your area. You might be surprised at what's around.

Finally, I had a terrible thought about the whole conversation about psychiatrists and such. Going to a psychiatrist or even going to a therapist can sometimes be used against one in a custody battle.

Look, I am very fearful for you, hopefully this is irrational of me. But I know that partners will sometimes pick the community that defines their life over partners or the best situation for their children. It happens. I sincerely hope this is not the case. However, you are challenging quite literally everything that your husband holds sacred. If he is unable to cope with this, you may find that you two are just not compatible and need to divorce. At that time, he may pull out all the stops to get custody. As you discuss things with him - and I agree that you need to be honest with him about how you have changed and what that means for the relationship - just file away in the back of your head how things can be used against you in a custody dispute. Think about how things might look to a judge. You might not want to have much in writing. I am well aware this is premature of me but I have seen the after effects of an entire community turning against one former member. While no one wants to think that a loved one can turn against you, it does happen. And I think it is more likely to happen in a situation and community such as yours.

You need to follow your truth - you cannot be who you were. That train has left the station. I applaud you for wanting so desperately to be authentic that you are taking these risks. Just give a thought or two to worse case scenarios and how you might manage. Sorry to be so dark - I truly hope my worry is all for naught.
 
I don't believe in the Bible or that we need any kind of saviour so I won't fit in at any church. That's okay with me. But I need to find likeminded people.

You might find progressive Christian churches to be a lot more open minded than you imagine. I'm Jewish and in Judaism there is an enormous breadth of choice regarding practices and beliefs. Even within a movement there are huge differences among congregations.

Here's a link to the Progressive Christianity Network in the UK with a list of churches according to region. Your wanting to turn away from the Bible is certainly understandable, since your particular church is so painfully conservative and constricting, but you might find some very refreshing biblical interpretations and much needed fellowship in an open minded church congregation. Even if it's a transition thing, a more liberal and alternative-friendly congregation can be an emotional lifeboat to you right now. There are many churches that are Bible based, but not judgmental in the least. Just a thought.

Here in the US and in some other countries, the Unitarian Universalist Church has a presence, but I don't find any congregations in the UK. Perhaps you can find something similar there. That is a non-denominational, non-Christian-specific church and quite prevalent here in the States. They are huge on inclusion.
 
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Well aside from the religion stuff I just told husband about me being polyamorous. He didn't take it well. He said "heck no" to an 'open relationship' and left the house. I feel horrendous right now. That kind of 'what have I done' feeling, but I had to be open and I had to be authentic. Can someone please just remind me that loving more than one person doesn't make me a monster?
 
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