Lack of attention

[Inthedark]

It was never all your fault.

You are 100% correct, of course! However, you know me well enough by now to realize that my first reaction in any bad situation is to blame myself. My default setting seems to be "Everything is my fault," and "I must fix every problem right this second."

You are right though, that in practical terms, it doesn't really change anything. Still toxic for you to be there. I still think it's best to carry on with your plan to divorce.

Yes, nothing has changed. I tend to try (at least lately) to see a silver lining in all situations. With my wife's recent health problem, I had hoped that my actions would elevate me in the eyes of my wife. I bent over backwards to ensure that she was properly taken care of. If not for me, she would still be lying in bed crying and in pain, waiting until mid-April for an appointment. I stepped up in the manner that she has always wanted me to, and in the manner that I always do when things go awry. Unfortunately, I lulled myself into believing that I would receive a reward for my actions and my behavior. I didn't. Now we are back to the status quo.

I want to be clear on one point here. I am not planning on a divorce. That might frustrate many of you, but it is what it is. I do have plans in place if things come down to that. But I will not file unless my hand is forced. That said, I'm doing more stuff for myself. I am preparing for life outside of the Army. I am spending more time with my kids. I am doing more of the things that I enjoy doing. Right now, I'm ok with the status quo. Sorry if any of you are disappointed in me for that.

 

[GreenAcres]

Yes, nothing has changed. I tend to try (at least lately) to see a silver lining in all situations. With my wife's recent health problem, I had hoped that my actions would elevate me in the eyes of my wife. I bent over backwards to ensure that she was properly taken care of. If not for me, she would still be lying in bed crying and in pain, waiting until mid April for an appointment. I stepped up in the manner that she has always wanted me to and in the manner that I always do when things go awry. Unfortunately, I lulled myself into believing that I would receive a reward for my actions and my behavior. I didn't. Now we are back to the status quo.

I want to be clear on one point here... I am not planning on a divorce. That might frustrate many of you, but it is what it is. I do have plans in place if things come down to that. But I will not file unless my hand is forced. That said, I'm doing more stuff for meyself. I am preparing for life outside of the Army. I am spending more time with my kids. I am doing more of the things that I enjoy doing. Right now, I'm ok with the status quo. Sorry if any of you are disappointed in me for that.

IMHO, "rewards" for good behavior are for kids and dogs, not adults in a healthy relationship. Do things because they are right, because they are good. Do them out of compassion, concern, and love, and do them without expectation of reward, because, in a loving adult relationship, there is no such thing as a rewards system. There is partnership and respect. If you do things for these reasons and your partner doesn't respond in kind? They're not really your partner, they're an emotional (and often physical) parasite using a host for their own benefit, draining the emotional life of the relationship and their partner, and doing nothing for the "host."

Expecting rewards is setting yourself up for disappointment, but also further playing into the already-imbalanced power dynamic going on.

It isn't for us to be disappointed in you or your decisions--they are your decisions, and, even though you post here, only you can know what works for you in this moment. It's good to read you're doing more for yourself, that's definitely a positive step. All you can do is continue to evaluate where you are, and what your breaking point is. Good luck to you.

 

[GalaGirl]

I'm not disappointed in what you choose to do. It's your life and your choices to make.

I am not planning on a divorce. That might frustrate many of you, but it is what it is. I do have plans in place if things come down to that. But I will not file unless my hand is forced.

What conditions would would "force your hand?"

I thought she already said she wanted a divorce two weeks ago. I thought that part of it was was settled. I thought it had moved on to, "Okay, we are divorcing. So, when and where to best file?" in the conversation, but the conversation just got put on pause to deal with the medical emergency first.

Galagirl

 

[Inthedark]

What conditions would would "force your hand?"

I thought she already said she wanted a divorce two weeks ago. I thought that part of it was was settled. I thought it had moved on to "Okay, we are divorcing. So, when and where to best file?"

Forcing my hand would be if she decides to leave or if she asks/tells me to leave.

Two weeks ago she said that her plan was to pay off the bills and then get a divorce. But we haven't discussed it further. I don't know if she still feels this way or not. She is great at confusing me. So really, I just don't know. And, because I am just so drained and exhausted right now, I kinda don't care. I guess you could say that I am avoiding the situation, which, I know, is not good and won't solve anything. But dammit, I just need a break. But between daily life, the health issues, issues with her work (she was let go yesterday for no apparent reason!), and trying to get out of the army and find my own job, it doesn't seem that I can get that break that I want/need.

 

[Spork]

Your choices are your own. I am not disappointed in you for anything that you're doing. But I will tell you (here or in our PMs) what dangers I see-- physical, emotional, mental, financial, etc., in your possible courses of action, because you should make your decisions with as much information, open eyes, self awareness and honesty with yourself as possible.

Saying that you will stick it out, and let her make the choices as to when and if you divorce-- I do think that is avoidant, fearful behavior. You are afraid of the consequences of your own actions, so you're trying to get another party to take responsibility for them. You are sitting there, dealing with literally anything, rather than making any choices, thinking, what if you do make a choice, and then it's the wrong one? It's much easier to wait and let her make all the decisions, and then you can say that there was nothing you could do but react.

Saying that is not me being disappointed in you. It is me calling some shenanigans on your thought processes and asking you to be honest with yourself.

There is nothing wrong with being tired of all the stuff you have to deal with, and putting tomorrow's worries on a back burner to be looked at another day. Nothing wrong with that, AT ALL. But putting it all in her hands because you don't want to empower yourself to make your own choices... See, I often think it's a big problem with the military. They hold your hand too much. They tell you where to report, what to eat, what to say, how to stand, what socks to wear every day, where to live, etc., etc. You really don't have to make your own choices in the structure that is provided by the military. If you have a problem, they've got a resource or department that can help. They'll even pay your bills for you out of your pay if you want.

I think that for many soldiers, it's almost like they are prisoners who've serve long sentences and then get out, and they've got to try and learn how to make their own choices in a world full of freedom, and it's terrifying. These people, who have lived this life from like age 18, I don't think they really grow up. And one day you find yourself... they've just yanked the scaffolding away, and there you are... responsible for your own life, and possibly the lives of a family. Honestly? I think that this particular syndrome is responsible for more dysfunctional, homeless, damaged veterans than PTSD is. Ya'll completely miss out on some serious and necessary formative experiences in your 20s.

So anyhow. You are doing some very right things, and you know it. Do stuff for YOU. Do stuff with and for YOUR KIDS. As soon as possible, look for a job. Do not let your wife be the focus of your existence, even if you are caregiving for her. Learn to see her as a necessary partner and housemate, not as someone you're yearning for validation from. You don't have to make tough choices today. But you may have to make them in the future, and you need to cultivate the strength to do that.

 

[Tinwen]

Hi Inthedark,

because I am just so drained and exhausted right now, I kinda don't care. I guess you could say that I am avoiding the situation, which, I know, is not good and won't solve anything. But dammit, I just need a break.

That is understandable, really. Fully understandable, to me, at the very least. I am not able to make even small decisions when overtired, let alone following through.

Actually, I can see that your head and your heart still are not aligned on whether divorce is good for you. I recognise that situation, and letting your head surrender to the heart does get you a break for some time. (The dilemma comes back sooner or later, though.)

Maybe you can notice the contradiction for now and discuss this in therapy. Please have a more detailed look at all this in therapy.

That said, I'm doing more stuff for me. I am preparing for life outside of the Army. I am spending more time with my kids. I am doing more of the things that I enjoy doing.

This is good development. Stick to it no matter what, and you might get that break and even develop more self-awareness.

I want to be clear on one point here. I am not planning on a divorce. That might frustrate many of you, but it is what it is. I do have plans in place if things come down to that. But I will not file unless my hand is forced.
...
Right now, I'm ok with the status quo.

Is this really "until my hand is forced"? Could you perhaps replace it with "I am not filing for divorce now?"

Would it be useful to make a commitment to rethink it after X happens? E.g., you are stable in new work, X months have passed, if she disrespects you again, you have extensively spoken about this in therapy, whatever? I have been successful with this method of "temporary peace" in the past. Of course, at any given point in time, you can decide yes or no.

 

[kdt26417]

Sorry to hear that you are not getting that break that you needed.

 

[GalaGirl]

it doesn't seem that I can get that break that I want/need.

It is ok and understandable to feel tired. But if you want the break, you can create it. Go stay with that New Mexico friend of yours for a week or two to clear your head and rest, for instance. I see that you relish taking care of people, but sometimes the one you take care of could be YOU. You did the job, she got the surgery, now you can REST.

Forcing my hand would be if she decides to leave or if she asks/tells me to leave.

She already told you she wanted to divorce 2 weeks ago. I think you could be splitting hairs with the semantics of that in order to avoid being honest with yourself. I think your hand may have already been forced with all the recent Kip shenanigans, and your eldest child commenting on the weirdness, your younger child being scared, and your wife saying she wants to divorce. Divorce, while an upheaval, and not something to consider lightly, could eventually lead to peace for your wife, peace for you, no more angry/weird stuff for your daughter and no more being scared for your son.

I don't see what more you could want to have happen in order for you to become willing to create the break you need, especially since you seem to be super tired of all this and you want to be free of it all. If you need a checklist of things YOU want to do first in order to change your willingness to file yourself, I could see that. I just thought it would be more like:

• "I am not willing to file right now. Before I can become more willing to file, I need a stable job first." That is fair. And it is something YOU do for yourself, not waiting on your wife to do it for you.
• "I am not willing to file right now. Before I can become more willing to file, I need to talk to my therapist first." That is fair. And it is something YOU do, not waiting on your wife to do it for you.

But when you seem to say (more or less) "I am not willing to file right now. Before I can become willing to file, I need my wife to say she wants to leave/wants a divorce," that condition was already met 2 weeks ago. I see you struggling with acceptance of that and I am so sorry. It's like she said she wanted out, then she got sick, and you wanted to be "The Hero" so she would change her mind about wanting to split up.

I hope you are able to see your therapist soon to help you sort out your conflicting thoughts/wants. I hope you are able to articulate with your therapist the checklist of things YOU could do in order to become more willing, not waiting for your wife to do things before you become more willing. YOU control your willingness. She does not.

I don't think you are going to get peace on the outside until you have peace on your inside. I don't think you are going to get peace on the inside until you get your thinking process straightened out. You seem to be all roller coaster still, on the inside, and I'm not sure you can get your thinking process sorted out while living there in tumult.

So, if you want a break, you could create it. Call the New Mexico friend up and go visit there for a week or two and get the break. It's too hard to think straight when you're super tired.

I strongly encourage you to make a therapist appointment if you don't have one coming up soon already. Maybe you can have an in-person appointment before and after your trip. Then a remote one in between, while on the trip.

But do think about taking that trip so you get some REST. You really seem to need it.

 

[Ravenscroft]

You're still enabling. Are you willing to accept that you are not just part of the problem, but clinging to the role?

I've said a few radical things in my time, meant to shake people up so that they'd think about the underlying message. For instance, any solution set that doesn't include suicide and murder is probably overlooking other options, as well.

That does NOT mean I think that terminal mayhem (or ANY actual violence, physical or otherwise) is a reasonable "solution"!! However, people shrink intellectually / emotionally from even thinking about them long enough to scratch 'em off the list... suggesting there's other stuff they also shrink from, & therefore might be walking right past an excellent solution "because it's too hard to think about."

Therefore, let me try one more time: YOU NEED TO START TALKING TO A LAWYER, LIKE RIGHT FREAKING NOW. Until then, you do not KNOW what your options are.

And your situation is not settled. Not by a long shot.

I'm NOT telling you to file for divorce. And maybe you're right, and you'll eventually be able to scratch it off the list, like those other pesky non-solutions.

You talk to a therapist, not to stop being crazy, but to avoid becoming crazy.
You buy insurance, not because you WANT to be injured, watch your house burn down, die in a terrible wreck, but to protect yourself should something go bad.
You talk to a lawyer, not because you intend to drag someone's ass into court and have them beaten up by the judicial system, but because you'd like to avoid as much of that nonsense as possible.

Got it?

 

[Inthedark]

Still Alive!

Hi all! Well, I've been away for a bit but I wanted to let everyone know that I'm still alive and kicking. It has been a challenging couple of weeks but worth it, for the most part. I have started my retirement leave and am trying to get some much needed relaxation time in. I got to play golf yesterday for the first time in nearly two years. It was raining and only about 40 degrees, but I played very well. Probably better than I would have back when I was playing every week. It was a great chance to be alone (I had the whole course to myself) and to use my mental energy on something that I enjoy. I can't remember the last time I had so much fun.

Of course, there are still the issues at home and they have gotten bigger. Jeff was asked to move in with us (without my being consulted). Turns out he is a really nice guy. Unfortunately, I think many would classify him as a hopeless loser. It has been awkward but livable. The rules have all been broken, but I couldn't hope for anything otherwise.

I can't leave yet because I have a lot of stuff to get done with the VA. I reckon, I'll try to stick it out for at least a bit, but I have (finally) lost all hope of reconciling my marriage. I'm not angry about it. Maybe a little sad, but not angry. If it weren't for my kids, I think I would be at the point of not even caring anymore. I think the only thing that is really bothering me is that I was asked yesterday why I didn't want to be friends with Jeff. Rather than dodging the question, I responded honestly. I asked my wife if she would want to be friends and hang out with a woman who was threatening to steal her man. I told her that I didn't harbor any ill will towards the man, but I had to call a spade a spade and that he was having a big influence on the ruination of my emotional life. Truth hurts, I guess.

So, here I sit, divorced in fact, if not legally. Acceptance is slowly creeping up on me. I imagine I will file eventually.

Just want to take a bit of time to relax and enjoy my time off. Cheers, All!

 

[Tinwen]

Forgive my ill memory, Jeff is the online dominant?

 

[breathemusic]

Have you considered starting up a blog in that section. You seem to come back and update regularly and welcome feedback and find this to be some sort of good outlet. The blog section is generally the ideal place for having the sort of ongoing "status update of my life/situation" type of entries. Not that you can't continue to post in this thread... I just noticed that it's starting to almost read like a blog anyway....

 

[Spork]

Forgive my ill memory, Jeff is the online dominant?

No, that was Kip. Jeff is her other long-distance/online boyfriend, who was from TX. He lost his housing and came up to live with them.

As a pragmatic sort and an accounting nerd, I had concerns about the whole "loser" element. It sucks. I've certainly known people who were darling to have around, and just adored 'em, but they were mooches or resource drains. One must be careful of such individuals. It's a hard, sad truth. I advised ITD to ask the tough questions. Does he smoke a lot of weed? Job prospects? Motivation? Because particularly in a time where money had to be diverted to cover bills that Megan was supposed to pay, but did not, and all of the changes on the horizon, that is the last thing they need.

Unfortunately, she is reaching out in emotional desperation to all the wrong potential choices here. And ITD is so wracked by his emotional turmoil and ups and downs, and focused on feelings, that it is hard to take the proper logistical steps that everyone has recommended to protect his kids and his assets from her poor life choice habits that are running amok in their lives.

Lest anyone think I judge too harshly, I am not only ~not remotely immune~ from making bad decisions like Megan is doing, but I went there, I did that, and I'm in a position now where I'm looking back at the consequences of my actions and am regretful. No one could have gotten through to me or saved me from myself. But I let an adorable scoundrel into my home and he was the catalyst that broke my marriage. That needed to happen, sure, in my case, and would have anyway, eventually. But he was COSTLY. And then my ex brought one after another toxic, moochy woman in. Costly.

So when I tell ITD, you shouldn't wait until everything lies in smoking ruins around you before you sever the marriage, and money in particular might get worse before it gets better (possibly a LOT worse), this is exactly the kind of milestone on that road to ruin that I was talking about. And you might be feeling as powerless as I was. But as we keep saying, have you consulted a lawyer yet? If not, DO IT.

 

[tenK]

Is this a wind-up? I don't understand why you would let the guy come and move in with you and your kids. What on earth do they make of this situation and the inevitable emotional tension that's going on in their home? If you can't even put your foot down and tell your wife that she cannot just invite her lover into your personal space, then I genuinely don't know what help any of us can offer you. By all means Jeff is welcome to move into your marital home and shack up nicely with your wife, but only when: a) you are divorced and custody arrangements are in place, b) when you have your own place lined up, and c) when he's paying his share of the bills. Or is this her house, that you have no financial claim to?

 

[Tinwen]

Inthedark said he is at peace now with the marriage ending. He said he will file for divorce and have his stuff sorted out, but he needs a break from massive action just now. If living with his metamour is the most quiet solution he can get now, why not let it be for a month or so?

I mean, sure, what Spork says about money and a lawyer is all true and should be sorted out as soon as possible. But picking another huge fight with his wife over this topic, which you cannot expect to end otherwise than him running out of energy and surrendering anyway? If it is way easier to step back emotionally from the situation until there is enough peace to collect everything and move on, I say do it. Just don't drag it out for too long.

 

[Spork]

Inthedark said he is at peace now with the marriage ending. He said he will file for divorce and have his stuff sorted out, but he needs a break from massive action just now.
If living with his metamour is the most quiet solution he can get now, why not let it be for a month or so?

I mean, sure, what Spork says about money and a lawyer is all true and should be sorted out as soon as possible. But picking another huge fight with his wife over this topic, which you cannot expect to end otherwise then him running out of energy and surrendering anyway? If it is way easier to step back emotionally from the situation until there is enough peace to collect everything and move on, I say do it. Just not drag it out for too long.

I agree that it's ok to take a break. But he's got to be careful, because I see him finding it all too easy to let conflict avoidance govern his behavior, to the point where one month becomes two becomes six becomes a year, and finally he's faced with a brick wall, a choice between action and total, utter ruin, or waiting endlessly for her to break the stalemate and take action first, which might be to his detriment.

I think he should go do a free consultation or two. There are lawyers all over this town who do them. Just lay out the situation and hear what the counsel has to say. Of course these lawyers are trying to convince a potential client to pay for their services, so there is a chance they'll paint a more optimistic picture for ITD than is realistic....but there should be some areas where it's spelled out in a "this is how this works" kind of way. I just encourage him to get some slightly more solid footing under him and to look at actual reality, numbers, logistics, facts, instead of muddling back and forth in feelings-land, paralyzed by the nebulous and abstract mind-traps of emotion.

I don't address my comments necessarily TO him, because we discuss many of the same things in PM. This is more for the sake of the narrative in this thread.

 

[Tinwen]

I see him finding it all too easy to let conflict avoidance govern his behavior to the point where one month becomes two becomes six becomes a year, and finally he's faced with a brick wall... ...
I just encourage him to get some slightly more solid footing under him and to look at actual reality, numbers, logistics, facts.

Sure. I know, and I agree.
Inthedark, please keep in mind that this calm needs to end.

I was reacting more to tenK, who came across to me really disgusted. Sometimes in the middle of depression, nothing is more valuable then a break.

 

[GalaGirl]

I'm glad you hear you got a golf break and enjoyed it a lot. You could do more of that.

I'm appalled to hear these things:

• Wife has broken all the rules.
• Wife asked Jeff to move in without consulting you.
• Jeff was brazen enough to actually do it. (I don't see how inserting himself into an already rough situation is him being "nice guy.")
• Wife wants you to be "friends" with Jeff.

That sucks. She's got some nerve!

I am glad to hear this:

• You told her you aren't going to be friends with Jeff. Who would in your situation? (You spoke your truth. I am glad! Speak your truth more often.)
• You have accepted there will be no reconciliation.
• You have accepted this marriage is dead in all but the legal sense.
• You plan to move forward and file the divorce for your kids' sakes, so it can be over.

What's the timeframe on that?

I can see wanting to enjoy your time off and mentally prepare for the next hurdle of filing for divorce, but do you have a timeframe in mind, so you can hold yourself accountable? It's not going to turn into a perpetual snooze button, right?

I can see it's hard to let yourself care. You are going emotionally numb from all this crazy behavior. That is a normal, protective response to super high stress. If going numb helps you survive the latest crazy, and helps you get things done without dilly-dally? GOOD. Be numb for now, get the divorce forms filled out and filed, and get yourself and the kids out of there, away from the crazy and into a safe healing space. You can let yourself start to feel later, when all are safely out of this crazy house.

But if allowing yourself to go numb allows you to do nothing, that's not good for you or the kids.

I'll look forward to you posting that you filed the divorce papers and kicked off that process. I hope you get there soon.

I really hope you and the kids make it to the healing space.

 

[Inthedark]

Hey wow! What a response! LOL. I should change the name of this thread from Lack of attention to Lots of attention! Thanks to everyone for the responses.

So, a couple of things I'd like to point out.

I think I am getting emotionally numb. There are so many things that I used to get upset or angry or sad about that I now just don't care about. It's easier not to feel than it is to feel negative all the time.

Next, I have to say that I have a lot of experience living in close proximity to people that I might not really like, so Jeff being here doesn't bother me too much, but at the same time, I HATE IT! LOL. Honestly, I want him out. If she goes with him, great! But I want a little peace more than I want him gone.

I don't see how inserting himself into an already rough situation is him being "nice guy."

I'm not going to defend the fucker, but I do think that it is possible to be a nice person and still do dumb stuff. Plus he has probably been just as manipulated by my wife as I have.

Do I have a timeframe? Certainly. First, I have to wait until May to be done with my VA appointments. Second, I have to wait until July to see what my disability rating is going to be. Third, I have up to 90 days after my retirement (1 JULY) to declare my state of residency (Virginia or Colorado). If I feel the need to crucify her, I will go to Virginia, where I am "consulting" an attorney. I use quotes because the attorney is a friend from high school who is giving me advice, but I am not officially consulting her. Bottom line, I plan on having some sort of resolution around July, if not sooner.

 

[kdt26417]

Sounds like you've got up to three more months of this ordeal ahead of you. Ugh ...