Lack of attention

Well, the wife got to Houston safe and sound, so that means one day without worry or stress. I hope she has a good time.

I also hope that this trip, and the way that I have been open and supportive of it, despite my worries, helps her to realize who is really important in her life.

The guy in Houston seems like really great. When she said that she needed to get out and take a trip, and that she wanted to go see him, he jumped at the opportunity, very much unlike Kip the Dom who keeps brushing the notion of a visit aside.

As I said, I have been very supportive of the trip. I bent over backwards to help her get ready. It was my pleasure to do so.

I can tell you all that I hope when she gets home tomorrow night she is in a better state of mind and that she is more open to communication. I think she will be. If that communication is about continuing our marriage, that's great! If it's about how to end our marriage with dignity and respect and consideration of the kids, that's great too. But I am prepared for the status quo, as well. So while I do have hopes, I'm not really getting those hopes up too much.
 
Keeping my fingers crossed.
 
Inthedark said:
Well, The wife got to Houston safe and sound so that means one day without worry or stress.

I hope she has a good time. I also hope that this trip and the way that I have been open and supportive of it, despite my worries, helps her to realize who is really important in her life.
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Who is this important person? Not you!

The guy in Houston seems really great. When she said that she needed to get out and take a trip, and that she wanted to come see him, he jumped at the opportunity.
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Well, yay for your wife!

Very much unlike Kip the Dom, who keeps brushing the notion of a visit aside. I have been very supportive of the trip. I bent over backwards to help her get ready. It was my pleasure to do so.
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Cuckold behavior.

I can tell you all that I hope, when she gets home tomorrow night, that she is in a better state of mind and that she is more open to communication. I think she will be. If that communication is about continuing our marriage, that's great! If its about how to end our marriage with dignity and respect and consideration of the kids, that's great too. But I am prepared for the status quo, as well. So while I do have hopes, I'm not really getting those hopes up too much!
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Basically you have no will of your own. You are completely submissive to her desires and actions, with you or with her others. She says jump, you ask how high. She is Domme, you are a little subby boy.

I wonder if she has put your cock in a cage, locked it and put the key around her neck? I am serious. I see subs like you on Fetlife who are cuckolds, get off on humiliation, and agree to having their genitals locked up, while knowing their wives are fucking others. They enjoy watching or helping their wives get dressed to go out and get laid by others. They enjoy driving her to see her more virile lover. Sometimes if the wife is out picking someone up, she sends her cuck husband pix of herself at the bar with a prospective lover.

If these cucks are lucky, their wife and her lover will let him watch them fuck, or even allow the submissive husband to clean them up after they fuck. This is the supreme excitement for the cuck. He doesn't ask to have his own penis involved in any way, he is satisfied and gratified by being an onlooker. If he has an average or small penis and the new lover is well endowed, he might even have his wife take pix of them side by side to show the "superiority" of the lover.

You claim to not get off on humiliation, but I see something between the lines here.
 
So, there have been some developments in the wife/dom situation. Looks like that fantasy might be coming to an end. I don't know if I shared this or not, but I started to notice some small fractures last week.

Basically, she didn't keep up the usual routine. Yesterday, she received a task for punishment. It was pretty harsh and she stood up for herself and said that it was too much. I was very happy that she didn't do it. It was something I would have had to help with, and I have been done enabling this shit for a couple weeks now.

So between that, and the fact that she stood up to the dude, I was overjoyed.

This morning she put the ball in his court and told me that his response will either prove that he is genuine, or it will be the killing blow of the relationship. She read me the novel that she wrote to him and, having had interactions with him myself, I don't think he will respond well. So we'll see what happens.

All of you that told me long ago that an end to the D/s stuff wouldn't mean that our relationship will be saved. Well, it looks like you were all correct. But I will be satisfied if this toxic person is out of her life, regardless of what that means for me. Don't worry, I'm not getting my hopes up too much! LOL
 
Your head is in the right place, I think. I doubt if your heart has caught up, but that's often the way of things.

I think that even when someone treats us badly and we know it's ending and there are better alternatives for us in life and in love, we can't just stop caring about somebody who has been there for so long. Even as the less-invested partner (emotionally) I still cannot really let go caring about my ex, and when he's doing things that I know are not only foolish, but will bring nothing but pain and ruin to him, I can't be so detached as I would with a stranger or acquaintance. He's just been part of my life too long for that.

But there does come a point where you've got to protect yourself, and your kids, from harm. For me...well...it's easy for me to compromise my own needs, but when my son's well-being started to be obviously compromised, that was the tipping point in my decision making. It is fortunate that (I believe) neither of your children are being harmed by the issues of you or your wife. But that does also make it easier to be wishy-washy about what you're doing, and cling to something long than maybe you should. Just watch out for that downhill slope, my friend. I talked about how it was financially for us...things started getting worse and worse, not better. Make sure that whether it is money or how the two of you are interacting, you don't hang in there until everything is a smoking ruin around you.

I think that's the hard part about how people in our culture handle breakups, especially those of long-term committed relationships. We are really brought up to believe that a successful marriage that goes on until death do you part, is THE GOAL and that anything other is a failure. And so we try, and we try, and we try. We hang in there and try to be strong WAY past the point where we should have cut our losses and split, even when we pretty much know it's over, we have that bit deep inside that can not let go and walk away, until there really is just NOTHING left to salvage. That thing that happened with my money situation...our credit cards were paid off, if I'd left when the shit first hit the fan, I would not have the problems I have today...but then he didn't work and he didn't work and I was told that if I just hung in there, he was going to get all this disability money and back pay and it would all be fine. Well he didn't, and it wasn't, and now we're up to our ears in debt. Far worse off, because I tried to be patient for the greater good.

So I say to you, and to anyone looking at a potential end of a very entangled and long-term relationship (married or not)-- you keep your finger on the pulse of this thing and don't be foolishly hopeful like I was. If things start to backslide in any way, don't assume it's a temporary setback. And be mindful that you might be a lot better leaving when things are relatively good, than if they get a whole lot worse. You don't have to wait for nuclear Armageddon to step off and try to make a better life for yourself. You know?
 
don't be (more of) an idiot

Unless you can clearly tell me, in great detail, how you were such an unconscionable jerk that you drove your wife away, if you can't manage that, then you'd better be prepare to remember where you put your 'nads, so you can admit to yourself that this whole situation is her doing.

She set fire to your boat, then jumped overboard when offered a berth on a way cooler boat.

Great job that you put out the fire... but there's a lot of damage.

And now you're talking yourself into taking her aboard again??!?! :rolleyes:

Let her swim home.

The only way I can see that she even deserves a probationary attempt to show she's capable of helping to rebuild the damage she has done is that maybe she oughta be left to wallow.

See, dude, you are a vital part of this love (ugh) triangle. The less that you are in the picture, the more she has to rely on him, which includes dealing with his downside. If you're around, then she gets to gloss over all that and focus instead on your failings, even those she's actively making for you. He gets to present nothing but the Good Stuff.

She's gone stupid. If she's gotten bored with "master" (or vice versa), she'll just find another.

If you take her back, you lose. Your kids lose. If you're okay with that, then we're pretty much done here, because it's just a matter of time (weeks rather than months) before you're looking for "advice" and "support" from us.
 
So, I just got an offer from my best friend to come live with him in New Mexico. He has a lot of connections and can help me find a job and he said I could have a room rent free fro as long as I want. He even said that he has room for my kids. I got a little Army stuff left to do but I am seriously considering his offer.
 
Good for you. I thought your plan to go to Virginia and file divorce there made sense. But maybe filing from New Mexico also makes sense, especially if your friend is willing to help and has room for the kids. Don't neglect to write up an actual rental contract, where he is the landlord, and these are his rights and responsibilities, and you are the tenant, and these are your rights and responsibilities. Even if the rent is "$1 a month for a lease of a year with option to renew lease."

You have had enough wacky. You don't need to be blindsided by "friend as landlord" issues that can be solved by treating business like business from the start.

Please do check your military social services and get their advice. Maybe there's even a third option to consider.

But keep moving it forward, and keep moving towards getting you and the kids out of this unhealthy dynamic. Do eventually pick an option and get going. Don't get stuck in "Keep looking for more options" and prolong the UGH stuff. YKWIM?

I think choosing from 2 or 3 plans is plenty. There just isn't going to be a "perfect" time. You could be willing to go with "good enough time as any, and this plan is ok" and get moving.

Galagirl
 
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Hm. I agree with GalaGirl. But I'm going to give your notion of rooming it up with your friend a "yellow light." If you proceed, do so with caution.

I've seen a lot of friendships get absolutely torched by cohabitation. Does he have family? Is he used to living with kids? How well do you know him? Bear in mind, you DO have a teenage daughter. I'm not trying to be shocking here, but I know darn well what I was getting up to at 15 years of age.

I would say, if you take him up on this, make it a VERY temporary transitional plan. Just long enough to get a job and seek a new place for you and your kids. A month or two, tops. Just my 2 cents.

And if you have more support in Virginia, family and such, I'd lean more in that direction. But have a plan to get a job immediately.

Also, what's the plan with regard to the house? You going to sell, refi, rent it out, walk away, or what? Also, if there are no legal orders in place and you try to take the kids out of state, as your wife has equal legal guardianship rights, unless she relinquishes them, she could file charges against you. Be careful of that. It's actually in the paperwork you file when you begin separation here in Colorado that you can't take the kids out of state until custody matters have been squared away.

I'm just trying to make sure you keep sight of all the factors here.

By far the best possible thing is to convince her carefully that it's in her best interest to agree to let you have primary physical custody of the kids. Then she can have her freedom to seek whatever she wants-- love, adventure and excitement, and still be part of their lives, but not held down by motherhood and that responsibility full time. No matter what, she isn't going to keep a relationship with the kids and just push you completely out of the picture. You have rights, too. She needs to get used to the idea of co-parenting. If you can get her to agree to this, there is no need to flee the state to seek a friendlier at-fault place to do your divorce.

Also, make sure that she is aware that she can't legally just take the kids and run off to Jeff or some dude in some other state. As long as you have custodial guardianship that is equal to hers, you can have her arrested for kidnapping, just as easily as she could do to you. I don't know if that notion has been in her mind, but just running off with the kids isn't an option for either of you, legally.
 
I'm Tired

I'm tired. I'm weary. I'm tired of trying. I'm tired of thinking. I'm tired of planning. I have no energy anymore. I'm in physical pain. So, I think I'm going to take a little break for a while and try to relax.
 
Sorry to hear you are feeling worn out. I know you have a lot to deal with.
 
Well, hell

It's been a rough few days. At 2:30 AM on Thursday my wife woke up with severe abdominal pains. We were able to get her back to sleep, but by noon that day, the pain was back, so we went to the ER. 10 1/2 hours later we came home thinking she had some sort of gall bladder problem.

We followed up with her doctor yesterday and were referred to the surgery clinic. Well, until last week, I was the manager of the surgery clinic. So we went down to talk to my old boss to see if we could circumvent the Army medicine red tape that would have resulted in her not being seen until mid-April. Much to my surprise, the surgeon that I wanted my wife to see said that she could be seen the same day!

So the doctor did a work up and was trying to decide the best course of action when, what to our surprise should appear but conflicting test results. We had to redo the labs, had two ultrasounds and a bunch of other exams and it turns out that they couldn't decide if she has a gall bladder problem or a really bad ulcer. The only way we could know was to have a test called a HIDA scan.

They do those at my hospital, but we get the radioactive contrast medium from the civilian hospital. Turns out that it wouldn't be delivered till 5:30, a half hour after the radiology folks go home. They also don't work on the weekends. So we figured, if we can't get the contrast stuff to us, we'll go to it. The Army hospital has a great relationship with the civilian hospital, so the surgeon called then to coordinate. We were told to go to the ER there and everything would be ready for us when we got there.

Big mistake. We got there and the people looked at me like I had a dick growing out of my forehead. After about five hours, the ER doc told us that they couldn't order a HIDA scan from the ER and he had to coordinate with the GI and Radiology folks. Well, they said that they wouldn't do it until Saturday morning and that my wife needed to be admitted. We asked why we couldn't just come back and were told that if she weren't admitted, they wouldn't do the scan. So we got her admitted.

Well, we are in the middle of a big snow storm, and the scan, which was supposed to happen at 6 AM, has not happened yet. Meanwhile, my wife hasn't had a bite to eat since 8 yesterday morning, she is in severe pain and can't have pain meds, and I got the damn chief surgeon of my hospital waiting on these results to determine if she needs surgery or not. FUCK MY LIFE!!!!:mad:
 
That's awful, ITD. Sorry the hospitals are handling it so badly. You certainly didn't need this on top of everything else. :(
 
You certainly didn't need this on top of everything else.
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No, I didn't. But I rose to the occasion! I have worked in the medical field for 20 years and I relish the opportunity to take care of people. Even if my wife is acting the way she has been, I still do my best to care for her. She is fine now. They finally did the test that was needed, and about 15 minutes after the results came back, they were taking her to surgery. She is a little sore now but she is resting comfortably and is even allowed to go back to work tomorrow. Looks like all's well that ends well.
 
Thank gods. And good for you for rising to the occasion.
 
HPD and/or NPD

I was reading another thread in which GalaGirl mentioned that a person seemed to be histrionic. I had never heard of this, so I followed the link she provided. Reading through the article, I thought I was reading a psychological profile of my wife! The Histrionic Personality Disorder page had a link to the Narcissistic Personality Disorder page, which I also read. The NPD page even more closely resembled my wife! I had been wondering for a long time if there was such a thing as NPD. I knew that my wife was very narcissistic, but I wasn't sure if there was actually a personality disorder like NPD. Now I know.

For any one that is interested, here is the link: http://outofthefog.website/personality-disorders-1/2015/12/6/narcissistic-personality-disorder-npd

There are so many traits of NPD that my wife meets that I would need to copy the entire article here in order to share them all! One thing that really had an impact on me was this:

"Narcissists are addictive personalities. Narcissism is commonly co-morbid with addictions to drugs, alcohol, sex, food, spending and gambling. It has been suggested that Narcissists have a higher rate of ADHD than the general population."

My wife does, in fact, have ADHD. And she has a very addictive personality, at various time being addicted to cocaine, alcohol, sex and gambling.

There was also this little gem that I identified with 100%:

"When receiving a compliment or apology [from a narcissist], you may be left feeling patronized, demeaned, brought down to size and even humiliated."

I know that I have written in this forum about the fact that every time my wife makes an affirmative statement or tries to validate me or my actions, I feel like she doesn't mean it and she is simply patronizing me.

I could go on and on about how my wife fits the criteria for both HPD and NPD! I think that those of you who have been following me here know that I feel much more comfortable when I have a label to place on something. Well, I think I've found the label or labels to place on my wife's behavior. Normally I like to label things, because it helps me to find or at least see that there could be a solution. Unfortunately, while I love the fact that I can label this behavior, I can't see any solution. But just knowing that there are these two disorders and that my wife fits the profiles of both of them helps me to understand why things are the way they are. Don't know if that knowledge will help me any, but it certainly sheds light on my situation.

One thing I do think is this-- I have often said that she has to learn things the hard way. Many of you have made statements that basically advise me to leave so that she will realize how good things were with me and how poorly she treated me, or similar sentiments. Well, if she does have HPD and/or NPD, it is very unlikely that she will realize any of this or learn anything.

If any of you all read the article that I linked above, think about the things I have said about her D/s relationship. This statement really hits home in this regard:

"They are often highly competitive and argumentative. They lash out when presented with opinions that contradict their own or when confronted with their own lies or bad behaviors."

How many of you have said that this Kip guy is not a healthy partner? How many people who have a ton of BDSM experience have told me that her D/s relationship is not healthy and doesn't make sense? How many articles have I read and presented to my wife that contradict the way things are going between her and her dom? Every single time I bring this sort of thing up to her, she lashes out. She fails to take into consideration that I am not making things up, but am relying on sources that may be considered experts or at least highly experienced! She says that everything I have told her about BDSM and D/s is all my personal opinion or is unsubstantiated, even when I point out that the information came from the same sources that she is using to research the topics that Kip gives her to research!

No, this knowledge does not improve my situation. Nor does it solve anything or help me make any decisions. But I feel a little bit vindicated knowing that these disorders exist. Even though I do bear a lot of responsibility for the downward spiral of my marriage, knowing about HPD and NPD and realizing that my wife may have them, helps me to realize that all this bad shit isn't all my fault, like I have allowed myself to believe. :eek:
 
Keep in mind the only person who can actually dx your wife is a professional.

But yes, personality disorders do exist. You sound like you are having a lightbulb moment. I am glad you feel better knowing this is not all your fault. Both of you helped in creating the shared situation even if she tries to make it all be your doing.

You are right though, that in practical terms, it doesn't really change anything. It is still toxic for you to be there. I still think it's best to carry on with your plan to divorce.

Galagirl
 
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It was never all your fault. Your wife has been engaging in some poor life choice behaviors, and putting a label on it does not change the toxicity of it. There's a label for your role in this, too, you know... Enabler.

And that part IS your burden to carry, or rather in the positive sense, that part is the bit you have the POWER to CHANGE. (That's the awesome part of being responsible for a thing. I love that part.)

I know it all too well, because that's also where I have stood for a long time. And sadly, when you're involved with someone who has one of these disorders, and behaves in ways that are toxic to themselves and others, usually the only solution is to save yourself along with anyone/anything else that you possibly can (the kids, optimally) and try to create a healthier world for you and them to live in.

See at first I was thinking that she was maybe just tired of being the strong Army wife, and needing to sub out and give up control, and that she didn't view you as strong enough to be the Dom she needed. And that would make sense, but it doesn't explain her getting into a crazy foolish D/s thing with a guy she doesn't know, and it doesn't explain her defensiveness about learning the right way to do these things, nor her refusal to come into the community and see how it's done. Which makes me sad, as you know, because it's so beautiful when conducted in healthy ways.

I think you know which parts of all this were yours to own (like the night you drank and maybe said things you shouldn't have)...and which are not. She is a grown ass woman, she can own her own bad behavior, personality disorder or not. You know she will likely resist any suggestion you make to get help, right? So in the end, you're left with a similar choice that I had to make...hang in there and take the abuse and "try to help" (enable) a mentally ill family member that you love...or protect yourself and, more importantly, your kids, and part ways. And that of course is terrifying, more for you than for me, because you are very wrapped up in her as the only serious relationship you've ever had, as your motivation and purpose, as part of your identity. You have to figure out who to be without her in your life, and that's scary. I've been building my own individual identity for years...you are just beginning to even think about it.

My experience with someone who likely has NPD or something similar (he's a mess, I'm not even sure what to call it)...is that if something is clearly your idea, they will fight it. But you can sometimes subtly and carefully plant ideas and give them a minute, and they will decide that it was their idea all along and do the thing, particularly if it benefits them. It's tough though, because while in your case, if you took the kids, she'd be free to do anything she wants, and in theory that would look appealing to her...I'm sure she loves her kids, she doesn't think very highly of you or your ability to raise them, she's used to being The Parent while you were gone/deployed/working long hours...so she probably can't imagine letting you have primary custody of them. I'd suggest that you just take over doing the things they need and being on top of parenting them, and let her role shrink, and in the meanwhile look into your legal steps. Get a lawyer when you can. And be careful that you don't get a false sense of reattachment to her due to her medical issues (caregivers like you and me are vulnerable to that--I would have left my ex years ago if he hadn't had serious medical problems and "needed me" at the time.)
 
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