Lol. I won’t disagree with you there. It’s certainly not my preference and I’ll speak my piece. But it’s not a big enough issue to me to start drama over. Hopefully they’re just respectful.
First true poly experience and setbacks
- Thread starter XJskyboy
- Start date
*Hopefully*? Why do you think speaking up for yourself is "starting drama"? It seems like these people are taking advantage of your willingness to be accommodating.
All very valid points. I really appreciate your candid and honest replies. It’s very helpful. Adam and I had a talk about things yesterday and it didn’t go well. He seems to think that the bed boundary is invalid and it caused a major argument. Guess I’ll have to think about my next move. It’ll all work out in the end I’m sure. Merry Christmas and thanks again.
Bobbi
Well-known member
It hurts when your needs are invalidated, especially when it comes to your bed. I'm assuming he sees your boundary as invalid because it’s his room too, and he should be able to sleep in it with whomever he wants? If he won't respect your boundaries around your bed, I‘d enforce my boundary by moving to my own room. Make the guest bedroom yours, and NOBODY sleeps in it without an invitation. Frankly, having separate bedrooms when poly is essential in my house. We sleep with each other with consent, but we have our own space for when we want it.
Remember, your boundary is yours and it's yours to enforce. If he doesn't respect your boundary, you can choose to make the guest bedroom yours as an enforcement. It doesn't matter what he thinks of your boundaries, because they are yours to enforce.
Yeah Adam is the one starting drama, not you.
Yeah, I wasn’t a big fan of his response. But he’s come around over the past few days. They’ve only been sleeping together or having sex in the guest room.
Braden came over on Christmas (his whole family lives out of state, as do both Adam and mine) and we did presents, dinner and watched movies until eventually they went to bed in the guest room, and then about halfway through the night, Adam joined me in our bed for the remainder of the night, which seemed like a fair compromise to me.
Overall, I think we’re slowly getting the hang of this.
Okay, it's early days and you guys have an unusual dating/FWB thing going on. The boundaries are a bit porous so far.
Adam really wants to sleep with you, even when he's hosting Braden. Maybe, since you brought it up, he's protective of you 24/7 because of your medical condition.
I think him coming to you part way through the night and leaving Braden behind in the guest room is a perfect solution. I guess there could be mixed messages involved, since you and Braden are occasionally fucking, so maybe Adam doesn't understand why you'd want to sleep only with him. He's projecting his and Braden's willingness to sleep with you, onto you. He's slow to understand you don't feel the same way.
There is this concept in polyamory that applies to established couples, called detangling. In close one-on-one relationships, we can start to feel like a single unit, that "when two become one" kind of thing. I mean, transcendent sex can really make your individual boundaries dissolve. But in reality, you are both individuals with different thoughts, feelings, tastes, desires, need for space, need for downtime, interests, backgrounds, etc., etc. Adam needs to be reminded of this, it seems, a lot, until he gets the picture. Polyamory does require a healthy degree of independence, which goes against our cultural norm of "He's the One," my "other half," and so on.
Adam really wants to sleep with you, even when he's hosting Braden. Maybe, since you brought it up, he's protective of you 24/7 because of your medical condition.
I think him coming to you part way through the night and leaving Braden behind in the guest room is a perfect solution. I guess there could be mixed messages involved, since you and Braden are occasionally fucking, so maybe Adam doesn't understand why you'd want to sleep only with him. He's projecting his and Braden's willingness to sleep with you, onto you. He's slow to understand you don't feel the same way.
There is this concept in polyamory that applies to established couples, called detangling. In close one-on-one relationships, we can start to feel like a single unit, that "when two become one" kind of thing. I mean, transcendent sex can really make your individual boundaries dissolve. But in reality, you are both individuals with different thoughts, feelings, tastes, desires, need for space, need for downtime, interests, backgrounds, etc., etc. Adam needs to be reminded of this, it seems, a lot, until he gets the picture. Polyamory does require a healthy degree of independence, which goes against our cultural norm of "He's the One," my "other half," and so on.
Thank you so much for this thoughtful reply. It all makes a lot of sense and puts some things into context.
Unfortunately, despite the fact that things were going so well for a few days, I have a feeling this isn’t going to last between Adam and Braden. They clearly have different expectations for what the relationship should look like.
Last night, Adam was showing some pictures on his phone from work to Braden, and in the process of scrolling through his photos, a nude pic of him came up. Since photos are chronological on iPhones, it was obviously taken recently. Braden immediately became upset because it had obviously been taken since they’d been dating and wasn’t sent to him, so in his mind it was clearly sent to “another guy.”
I have no idea (and don’t particularly care) if it was. But this made it clear that Braden expects a closed vee.
Adam and I have been open for over a decade, and I think Adam expected that in a poly relationship, it would still be open. But Adam is NOT a good communicator and, as I explained to him, they need to have that conversation directly. Things can’t just be assumed. While he doesn’t need to agree with Braden’s expectations and boundaries, he needs to respect them and determine if he can work with them and take appropriate action if he can or can’t.
Then we went back to our place for dinner (which Braden very sweetly cooked) and Braden got upset again. We are leaving today for Indiana for a friend’s New Year’s party that we attend every year. Braden volunteered several weeks ago to watch the dogs while we’re gone. But he suddenly said that Adam should have turned down the offer and boarded the dogs and invited him to come to Indiana with us as his boyfriend.
Long story short, pretty soon, Braden was sitting at the table crying, Adam said some mean things and stomped off to the bedroom.
I wound up playing mediator and counselor to both. Having been with Adam for so long, I know communication isn’t his strong suit and he tends to shut down when things get tense. But I expressed to both of them that they really really need to have a conversation about boundaries and expectations. I don’t want either to hurt, but that mediator role is getting old.
Sorry for the long dramatic post, but you all have been so incredibly helpful.
You CHOSE to do this work. You do not have to do it. If you choose to? You choose to.
If it is getting old, STOP doing that behavior then. Step back. Become ok managing your own feelings of X (anxiety? worry?) in a different way when they have a thing. Become ok letting them figure out their stuff on their own rather than you jumping in to "help them fix it."
Usually nobody WANTS people to hurt. But sometimes they do. And this is not something YOU caused or did.
- Adam assuming things and not communicating well with Braden? That's on Adam.
- If this Adam behavior bugs him it is on Braden to talk to Adam about it.
- If you are tired of being Adam's "interpreter" or whatever stop doing it. Expect Adam to work on his communication skills instead.
- Braden and Adam not talking about expectations now that they are regularly dating? That's on them.
- Braden offering to sit the dogs and then feeling left out or something later on and wishing Adam would be a mind reader and guess what Braden wants? Those are Braden's feelings to deal with.
- If this Braden behavior bugs him it is on Adam to talk to Braden about it.
- If Adam stomps off mad to take a time out to cool off first? Maybe Adam needs that right then.
Partly YOUR dogs, so I think in future you could get a different dog sitter or just board the dogs even if Braden offers. Just so you are not put in this kind of position. Like Braden maybe bails last minute and then you have to scramble to get a new dog sitter or arrange boarding or you miss the party.
But in general? Stop playing mediator and counselor to both. Start expressing concern more appropriately and back off. Like "I'm sorry this is happening like this" and then letting them figure out next steps without you doing anything more.
Or if you are going to do anything, do something neutral. "Can I get you some tissues? A cup of tea?" That is a comforting gesture without you actually getting involved in their communication or problem solving. You leave it as THEIR responsibility/thing to sort out.
Let Adam and Braden have these awkward/uncomfortable moments. Let them learn to solve them on their own. Or not. They will either make up or break up on their own. You do not have to intervene, interfere, or do anything.
That is my suggestion.
Galagirl
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haha sometimes I take pix of myself just for me. Nude, partially clothed, or dressed in a cute outfit. I mean, I am an artist and love fashion and have every right to take a selfie any time I damn well please, either to share with friends, a partner, on Fetlife/Instagram/Facebook, or with no one at all. Braden really jumped to conclusions there. Maybe Adam took the pic for you! Sheesh.
I think you should stop mediating and let this fucked-up relationship crash and burn, as it deserves to do. Adam can't be poly successfully if he is so unable to express his emotions, hold space for his partners' emotions, and negotiate boundaries. You're bending over backwards to "help" him and Braden, because you seem very used to playing interpreter for Adam's feelings for yourself. But being their couple's counselor is not and should not be your role, as a poly partner/metamour.
I think you should stop mediating and let this fucked-up relationship crash and burn, as it deserves to do. Adam can't be poly successfully if he is so unable to express his emotions, hold space for his partners' emotions, and negotiate boundaries. You're bending over backwards to "help" him and Braden, because you seem very used to playing interpreter for Adam's feelings for yourself. But being their couple's counselor is not and should not be your role, as a poly partner/metamour.
Thank you so much, Galagirl. Your reply put a lot in context. I really appreciate it. I’ve got some adjusting to do.
Thanks Magdlyn. I agree that Braden was jumping to conclusions here. I just have a bad habit of always trying to be a “fixer.” I need to work on that. I’ve run into the same situation in non poly/sexual situations too. I guess I just focus too much on other people being happy all the time and don’t consider the reality that not everyone is compatible and can’t always be put together like Legos
I can’t tell you all enough how much I appreciate the feedback.
Don't forget the part about how you view advocating for your own self-care and well-being as "starting drama".I just have a bad habit of always trying to be a “fixer.” I need to work on that. I’ve run into the same situation in non poly/sexual situations too. I guess I just focus too much on other people being happy all the time and don’t consider the reality that not everyone is compatible and can’t always be put together like Legos
True story! We’re getting thereDon't forget the part about how you view advocating for your own self-care and well-being as "starting drama".
Looking forward to a quiet weekend with friends in Indiana.
Thanks and happy new year!
Happy New Year to you, too!True story! We’re getting there
Looking forward to a quiet weekend with friends in Indiana.
Thanks and happy new year!
Oh my goodness. I don’t know how much I can take lol. So Braden’s pets and our pets don’t get along. That was known following thanksgiving. I had misgivings about his offer to pet sit since it was clear he would be pet sitting over a holiday.
Adam insisted he’d be perfect since he had pets of his own.
Almost immediately it became a turf war between his dogs and our dogs which I could have warned about. We immediately told him to put our dogs in the bedroom and simply feed, water them and let them out.
He then messaged that there was a confrontation between his older dog and our girl dog. I’m a HUGE dog person and love and idea that will make a dog’s life more pleasant. So I reiterated the ideas to keep them separate.
In the mean time, Braden messaged Adam to say he couldn’t handle the stress of dog sitting despite being 1000 miles away.
Adam immediately started telling me we needed to start looking at options to go home immediately which triggered me (right or wrong) as I didn’t want to participate in such a situation.
I told Adam he needed to figure it out because if it weren’t for his preferred relationship structure, we’d have boarded the dogs and this wouldn’t have been an issue (probably a faux pau on my part)
Long story short, apparently Adam talked to the neighbors on the phone who agreed to let Gwen and Artie out and fill their bowl. But then Braden talked to his mom who told him he was being completely immature and had agreed to something and therefore needed to complete it.
I’m just lost at this point
Adam insisted he’d be perfect since he had pets of his own.
Almost immediately it became a turf war between his dogs and our dogs which I could have warned about. We immediately told him to put our dogs in the bedroom and simply feed, water them and let them out.
He then messaged that there was a confrontation between his older dog and our girl dog. I’m a HUGE dog person and love and idea that will make a dog’s life more pleasant. So I reiterated the ideas to keep them separate.
In the mean time, Braden messaged Adam to say he couldn’t handle the stress of dog sitting despite being 1000 miles away.
Adam immediately started telling me we needed to start looking at options to go home immediately which triggered me (right or wrong) as I didn’t want to participate in such a situation.
I told Adam he needed to figure it out because if it weren’t for his preferred relationship structure, we’d have boarded the dogs and this wouldn’t have been an issue (probably a faux pau on my part)
Long story short, apparently Adam talked to the neighbors on the phone who agreed to let Gwen and Artie out and fill their bowl. But then Braden talked to his mom who told him he was being completely immature and had agreed to something and therefore needed to complete it.
I’m just lost at this point
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I'm sorry this happened.
It kinda sounds like you saw it coming, but didn't hold your ground about it because Adam was all caught up in the idea.
It's good you stood your ground with Adam somewhat, this time. I think you could own it more, though. I think it would have been better for you to deal with your dog care yourself and not let Braden be the dog-sitter in the first place.
Nope, not if Braden had already been fired by the dog owners, which he was. You and Adam had moved on to Plan B, to let the neighbors handle it for the rest of this trip.
From this point on, you could decide to board your dogs in future, and not deal in this Braden stuff.
GG
It kinda sounds like you saw it coming, but didn't hold your ground about it because Adam was all caught up in the idea.
It's good you stood your ground with Adam somewhat, this time. I think you could own it more, though. I think it would have been better for you to deal with your dog care yourself and not let Braden be the dog-sitter in the first place.
Nope, not if Braden had already been fired by the dog owners, which he was. You and Adam had moved on to Plan B, to let the neighbors handle it for the rest of this trip.
From this point on, you could decide to board your dogs in future, and not deal in this Braden stuff.
GG
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Well, you guys were totally right.
We came home from our trip, and Braden insisted on picking us up at the airport and brought breakfast and an apology for his behavior.
Adam said we should give him another chance, so I agreed. We then had a great couple days, with him coming and going and really seemed to bond. He then implored us to consider more of a throuple arrangement than a vee, which I was reluctant to and said we should just avoid labels and let things evolve organically.
Adam worked from the office all week and I worked from home, but Braden came over frequently (sometimes unannounced) and we got along well.
It seemed everything was going well, until Friday, when Braden had a little too much to drink and revealed some facts about some issues in his personal life and indicated he wanted to move in with us to alleviate them. Adam and I indicated we weren’t at that point yet. He got upset and went to the guest room and Adam and I went to bed in our room. We woke up around 4 AM freezing and when I checked the thermostat, he had turned off the furnace. I then realized he had unplugged every electronic device in the house and dumped out our entire wine rack (probably $400 worth of wine). Adam finally told him it was all over.
He’s been having tantrums via text for the past 48 hours. He has been very vindictive including saying he filed false reports with animal control to get our pets taken away from us if we don’t try things again. Then admitting he didn’t actually do that. I just flat out told Adam that I can’t deal with the drama and we seem to be on the same page.
I guess it’s back to the drawing board. I suppose I shouldn’t have expected attempt 1 to be a success. Just very stressed. Hopefully the next experience is better. Still learning I guess.
We came home from our trip, and Braden insisted on picking us up at the airport and brought breakfast and an apology for his behavior.
Adam said we should give him another chance, so I agreed. We then had a great couple days, with him coming and going and really seemed to bond. He then implored us to consider more of a throuple arrangement than a vee, which I was reluctant to and said we should just avoid labels and let things evolve organically.
Adam worked from the office all week and I worked from home, but Braden came over frequently (sometimes unannounced) and we got along well.
It seemed everything was going well, until Friday, when Braden had a little too much to drink and revealed some facts about some issues in his personal life and indicated he wanted to move in with us to alleviate them. Adam and I indicated we weren’t at that point yet. He got upset and went to the guest room and Adam and I went to bed in our room. We woke up around 4 AM freezing and when I checked the thermostat, he had turned off the furnace. I then realized he had unplugged every electronic device in the house and dumped out our entire wine rack (probably $400 worth of wine). Adam finally told him it was all over.
He’s been having tantrums via text for the past 48 hours. He has been very vindictive including saying he filed false reports with animal control to get our pets taken away from us if we don’t try things again. Then admitting he didn’t actually do that. I just flat out told Adam that I can’t deal with the drama and we seem to be on the same page.
I guess it’s back to the drawing board. I suppose I shouldn’t have expected attempt 1 to be a success. Just very stressed. Hopefully the next experience is better. Still learning I guess.