Poly Lessons We've Learned

MonoVCPHG said:
Redpepper asked me to spend the night on their couch. It was not pre-arranged with Polynerdist and I did not want to encroach on their morning. I thought I was doing the respectful thing by leaving. Redpepper and I were "amorous" on that couch before I left. I texted her when I got home to tell her how hot that was, but I sent the text to Polynerdist by mistake!

I was sad because I hurt Polynerdist. My mind flashed back to having an affair and that feeling of doing something wrong with another man's wife. I felt guilty for having sex with the woman I love in a poly relationship. I felt that I tried to be respectful by leaving, and ended up disrespecting Polynerdist more... I apologized in person... I need to be a positive in their lives. He was understanding. We hugged. I feel better now.

I'm going to make mistakes, but dealing with them openly is the way to get past them quickly and deepen bonds.
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Not only that, we broke an agreement we'd made: "No sex while Nerdist is sleeping in the next room." I didn't think this was still valid, since we'd agreed to this at the beginning of our relationship 20 months ago, so I actually forgot about it entirely! Yeah... no, still on... My bad. He wouldn't have known if it weren't for the misplaced text! Yet it happened that he did. How many old boundaries have we broken just because they are old? How many have we been lax on in our ability to keep them because we broke them so often? I don't even know. I can't remember which ones are still are valid.

Note to self and others: check on where the boundaries are often. They may not seem valid because they are old, but really, they might still be.

It turns out that everything was okay, even if he would still like that particular boundary respected. However, I feel very badly about having broken it without realizing it. I guess we need a boundary overhaul.
 
A lesson learned for me is that most people coming into poly go through a time of casual sex and promiscuity. It seems that quite often it's kind of a breaking of the dam, so to speak, especially for those who have been in long-term relationships for a time. Whether it be in terms of swinging, cheating, or meeting, dating and having sex with many people, it seems to be a bit of a rite of passage for some. Of course, there are those who stay in that and embrace it, as they are the type that see sex as recreation and are not connected to it emotionally every time. Others seem to go through a phase (*cringe at that word*), and come out the other side having found someone, or realizing that they want something more permanent and steady.
 
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Laughing and not taking it all so seriously is a good thing in poly. We aren't always on the last step before jumping into oblivion... Did I mention before that drama and poly don't mix? Heed this advice: needless drama is a relationship killer.
 
redpepper said:
Laughing and not taking it all so seriously is a good thing in poly... Needless drama is a relationship killer.
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I have to say I appreciate that you think it's a good thing to not take it all seriously. I have a hard time taking anything but the most serious things seriously!
 
Z is searching online for a local friend to replace his office coffee/movies gal pals, now that he is working from home. This is part of a response he received: I think that you and Sage have not yet met anyone who completely rocks your world... somebody who haunts the wakefulness of your sleep and the sleep of your wakefulness. Somebody whose skin you want to crawl inside of and completely immerse yourself in their love. My theory is that you are 'just not that into' each other.

Of course, I had to immediately jump online and give her my opinion. I even blogged about it. But now, sitting back as it all settles I realise that, yes, we do have all that stuff, just not 24/7, because after a couple of years living together that would be downright annoying.

What she's talking about is largely NRE and that is why she is probably still on a dating site after ten years.
 
Assume NOTHING

While with Mr. A last night, the condom broke. We both heard/felt it happen and he pulled out immediately. He hadn't had an orgasm.

I was ... panicked. Indigo has made that boundary VERY clear. I knew it was an accident, but was dreadfully afraid he'd be upset, because when he and I explored the reasons for the rule many months ago, it boiled down to "not using condoms is reserved for me" (i,e., assuming the other party is clean, and I'm not getting pregnant).

I knew if he were upset, that he'd realize logically this was an accident, and then come to terms with it, but I was very, very panicked about even hurting him.

When he got home, I sat down with him, nearly in tears, and told him what had happened, and what Mr. A and I did. He said, "Oh well, accidents happen."

:eek:

I cried in relief. He wasn't the tiniest bit upset. He explained that he'd only be upset if we either hadn't stopped, or hadn't used a condom in the first place. Those are grounds for a full stop.

So, as major events often precipitate, I started thinking. Today, I asked him if there was a time when it would be okay for me to become fluid-bonded to another partner. He thought for a bit, then said he trusted Mr. A, trusted me to keep him safe, and that Mr. A could now be included if I felt comfortable with him.

So... yeah. Like a 180 for me.
 
TruckerPete said:
A could now be included, if I felt comfortable with him.

So... yeah. Like a 180 for me.
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All hail the fluid bonding!! Enjoy your new freedom, TP. :D

I know fluid bonding is not important to everyone, but it's practically essential for me to lose myself in those moments. Good to hear.
 
MonoVCPHG said:
I know fluid bonding is not important to everyone, but it's practically essential for me to lose myself in those moments. Good to hear.
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I have to admit, it's extremely important to me, but not something I otherwise would've felt confident broaching with Indigo for a while yet.

Communication, yeah!
 
Good for you speaking up right away. That happened to me once and I didn't think anything of it. I told only told Mono, NP and my tertiary when the man I was with got really angry that I hadn't said anything. Oops, my bad. That was a better course of action. Good for you.
 
No lies, not even to "protect"

This one is from a little bit back, but I didn't get a chance to post it. Also, I know I use words like "allowed," but please don't read that in the negative way it comes across. I can't think of a shorter way to say, "boundaries we have negotiated and agreed upon." :p

Shortly after Mr. A and I dropped the L-bomb, we had our first opportunity to be at my place.

As the evening wound down, Indigo came home and the three of us had ice cream together. (Mr. A had brought it to "placate my uterus" because I was having PMS. :D )

It was time for Mr. A to leave, so I walked him to the door and we said our goodbyes, which included a whispered "I love you." Mr. A was a little enthusiastic in his declaration of this, because he wasn't particularly quiet. There was also a some giggling, because we were both giddy.

Mr. A left, and I went back to the living room to sit with Indigo. He made a comment about us being "whisper pusses," which I knew meant he was uncomfortable with it. (Frankly, I had been too ... but he and I hadn't actually laid out boundaries for "transitions," i.e., one person leaving or arriving while the other is there.)

Dilemma-- Indigo did not know that we'd said "love" yet. It was so new that I was still getting used to how it felt. I did intend on telling him, if that was something he wished to know. While I knew it was just fine for me to love, I wasn't sure what he wanted to know, emotionally. (I'm allowed to have sex, but Indigo certainly doesn't want those details!)

So, I hadn't yet told him that we'd said I love you, and I didn't know how he would react. He was feeling insecure because we'd been whispering. I'd been stupid enough to venture into a grey area AND say "I love you" in his general vicinity. (20 feet around a corner from him with the TV on.)

Clearly, the best solution? LIE! I told Indigo that I had just said to Mr. A that I'd had a wonderful evening, and I'd whispered because I wasn't sure if that was something he wanted to overhear. Indigo asked what Mr. A said. I told him Mr. A had said the same thing. I apologized for whispering, and said I was sorry, because I didn't know what to do for the "transition."

We left things at that, with a little extra TLC for Indigo. I was feeling hella guilty, even though I did intend on coming clean when I had sounded out the emotional "want to know" boundaries.

Indigo started having nightmares, which happens when he's stressed. There were a number of stressors in life at this point, most of which didn't pertain to our poly. But I had a sinking feeling.

A couple days later, I worked up the courage to ask Indigo if he wanted to know when the L-bomb drops. He replied, "You've already said it, haven't you?" I told him we had, and he was upset. He told me he thought he'd heard Mr. A say that the night he was over. I asked why he hadn't called me on my lie and he said he thought he was just being paranoid and wanted to believe me.

So... yeah. The impact my lying had on him was a LOT worse than the fact that Mr. A and I now loved each other. MUCH discussion and apologies on my part ensued. We did work it out, and surprise, the nightmares stopped. *sighs at own stupidity*

Lesson learned:
Don't freaking lie, even if it's with the best possible intentions. It's still a breach of trust. You're a moron for it.
 
Poly and life itself are about the journey, not the destination, in my opinion. Just when I think I have it all under wraps and figured out, something else comes up to work on.

Embracing issues and situations, and going in with a positive attitude, full of wonder and interest about everything, is about all I can hope to do for myself. The rest just comes, so I might as well love the ride, even if I wish I could get off sometimes. ;)
 
On the triad/quad dream

I hope GroundedSpirit doesn't mind my quoting him. If he does I will write this in my own words. I just thought he had a really good point and said it so well.

GroundedSpirit said:
I feel setting it up as some 'goal' and not feeling satisfied otherwise is going to lead to disappointment and disillusionment, because the 'dream' tends to ignore human nature. As we've spoken about frequently, all people form connections of various depths and in various fashions. There is never this idealized 'equality,' any more than leaves on the same tree are all equal. I always get a shiver when I hear such talk, because it harks back somewhat to the 'same old model,' a slightly expanded form of monogamy, only with one additional person. In such a configuration, I see the same potential for problems and conflict as I'd see in a classic two-person monogamous relationship, but maybe with one important difference.

These people have looked at 'expanded' loving and relationships, chosen it. And I have a feeling that in most cases trying to close that down is going to be difficult.

Pandora's box has already been opened. Monogamy was found lacking (something) in order to choose this in the first place, and once discovered, that's not likely to change.
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I think this sums up why I feel uncomfortable with the closed triad dream, or closed quad dream, for that matter. It isn't expanding, but as rigid as monogamous rules. Of course, that doesn't mean that it doesn't work for some. I am sure there are some it does work for. But as you say, GS, when the box of possibilities is open, then the prospect of closing it down after NRE has settled seems unlikely and painful.

There seems to be a very real dream for a lot of couples opening up their relationship that it would be perfect for them to find a unicorn or someone that will be dedicated to them, be exclusive to them and be everything they want her/him to be. They would be more than willing to fold themselves into their arms forever and love them evenly.

That dream is a lovely one, for sure and I think there are all good intentions when couples set out with this in mind. But I must say, the only time I have had this work in my life is when we got a guinea pig. He loves us all evenly because we give him food. He loves to snuggle on our laps, and we know this because of the noises he makes. Sure, we aren't about to have sex with him, but the love from him is precious and constant.

Intelligent people with free will are more like cats. They aren't going to fold into a couple's arms forever without some drama, and someone getting scratched. Trying to make a cat cuddle with you when it doesn't want to is just not going to work if they want to go out and do some bird hunting. I think this is something that needs to be considered for couples setting out with a triad dream in mind.

The thing with poly is that it creates independence. There is no room for codependency within it, because by its very nature it forces us out into the world and forces us inward to find the answers. We aren't coming from two, but many, and that means turning it around and standing on our own two feet. Trying to shove codependency into the situation seems to lead to a whole lot of heartache.

Poly folk seem to find that they either need to look inward, at themselves, because their partner is out with someone else, and they have time freed up, or they have to go out into the world to seek lovers for themselves. These are independent acts. Sure, the one who is the object of love in a triad's beginnings might love the couple, but this is not exclusive to them once NRE is over, it seems. It divides in two. So, why not nurture love with the object of loving independently from the beginning, so as to respect the independence that is more natural to our way of being?
 
No problem, RP. I am somewhat flattered, I guess! If words ever have any value they need to be used.

Being a cat person, I love the cat analogy, maybe because I've always loved their spirit of independence. If you can have a wonderful relationship with a cat you are a poly natural! :)

The love is always there, but not under your control. But it always seems to show up when you can use it most, even if it starts with a scratch before the purr. Sometimes we need that scratch to wake up.
 
Metamours defining their own relationship is the foundation of a long-term poly arrangement, I think.

I can't imagine "don't ask don't tell" (DADT), would be the key to a long-term successful relationship, although I'm sure it happens. But is that success? I don't know. I would think that if a person had long-term goals with another person, or for themselves, that their partners would eventually have to meet and create a relationship of their own, whether or not it is a bonded friendship that is akin to brotherhood or sisterhood, or a quiet understanding. Coming together as some kind of group would be necessary in order to get on with other things in life, I would think.
 
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redpepper said:
I can't imagine DADT would be the key to a long term successful relationship, although I'm sure it happens, but is that success? I don't know. I would think that if a person has long term goals with another person, or for themselves that their partners would eventually have to meet and create a relationship of their own; whether or not it is a bonded friendship that is akin to brotherhood or sisterhood, or one that is a quiet understanding. Coming together as some kind of group would be necessary in order to get on with other things in life, I would think.
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I suppose it depends on how you define success. A friend of mine has had the same affair partner for 8 years. He's also still very much in love with his spouse. Obviously, his relationships "work," despite what we may think of the ethics.

I think a DADT situation could work just fine for the people involved. It's just really hard for us to see their success as a success because it's not what we would define as success.
 
TruckerPete said:
I suppose it's about how you define success. A friend of mine has had the same affair partner for 8 years. He's also still very much in love with his spouse. Obviously, his relationships "work," despite what we may think of the ethics.

I think a DADT situation could work just fine for the people involved. It's just really hard for us to see their success as a success because it's not what we would define as success.
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Very true. I wouldn't be able to rationalize deceit as functional and successful, but I could do DADT for while. True, it depends on the goal.
 
Homemade wine? You mean stuff that will take away axle grease? I have some of that kicking around somewhere, and no one will drink it for me. I'm waiting for the first gang of starving under-age alcoholics to come trick-or-treating.
 
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