The Struggling Mono Thread

[redpepper]

@sage- "The Five Love Languages" by Gary Chapman
1. Words of affirmation
2. Physical touch
3. Receiving gifts
4. Acts of service
5. Quality time

Not any communication in there, but if words of affirmation fit, maybe that?

@Vokafan- Isn't sex communication? Talk/sex... Hmmm, what to pick?!

What does your sig mean? I certainly say sorry to Mono... Geesh. Do tell.

 

[vodkafan]

Ha! I was a bit angry when I came up with that signature line. That's how it seems, sometimes.

Sex is certainly an important channel of communication, but it's not the only one.

I should have written more on the background to things. One of the problems is that I am working two extra nights overtime up to Christmas. I have to sleep during the day. So on those days, she will wake me up to make love (when the kids are at school), so I don't miss out that way, but we have no time to talk about anything. The fact is my 4 days, which I was only just getting comfortable with, are now effectively cut down to 2. I spend five nights at work away from her and emotionally, it feels like a desert.

We did talk a couple of days ago and I told her I needed the goodnight phone call every night (I got that idea from people on here.) Just generally I was not feeling like we were in our own romantic bubble that we have painstakingly built up these past 3 months. I don't want to lose that good feeling.

She tells me that at the weekend she has been to this or that restaurant or other place with OHb. I am not jealous, but I feel I am missing out on all the nice stuff. There is no balance at the moment. My life is pretty much just work and feeling tired. She does appreciate what I am doing, but it is frustrating when I don't have quality time with her.

 

[redpepper]

I am actually finding that sig offensive at the moment. If you were to change it to indicate that is YOUR thought, so as to make it less inclusive of all poly people, I would find it less like you are bashing poly people.

On the unfortunate consequence of your work life, it sounds a little like you are being placated, and that she thinks all she has to do is fuck you and you will be satisfied. Having assumed this stance in the past, I began to feel more like a sex-trade worker than a partner, and it began to whittle away at my self worth, even though it was my misconception about what a man needs. I didn't get paid either. Maybe you should spend more time masturbating for a bit and more time using those precious moments to connect by talking and having some nice dates planned. Even if it's a home date of having a glass of wine and a cheese and chocolate plate. Low music, dress up. Sometimes that goes a lot further than a silent fuck and a kiss goodnight. Just a thought.

 

[vodkafan]

I will change the sig.

Dates are extraordinarily difficult. Part of the reason our marriage got into difficulties was the strain of my work hours, which ground us both down over the years.

We have a big family and at nighttime the kids are always around. The housework involved with 6 kids is relentless-- shopping, meals, washing, drying and sorting clothes. Then, when the kids are home, it is just homework and getting them into bed. Our best time is during the day. We do what we can.

I think you are right. I am being placated at the moment, but as long as we can communicate and stay in our bubble I think things will find their own level. I feel like our love is a living, fluid thing now, that I have to watch and cherish.

To be honest, some days when she wakes me up after a 14-hour night shift, I don't feel very "porn star"! Bless her. She just doesn't want me to miss out. I don't have time to masturbate these days.

 

[marta]

Hi Seeking,

I totally understand feeling cut up inside when you see the affection/love expression "live" from your SO to his other partner. Whoa.... it has been so hard for me too. I had an experience of it a few months ago (mostly watching him look deeply into her eyes and say something vulnerable, which was KILLER! but also good in a way, like a sad, opening, expanding moment of acceptance for me). But since then, I haven't seen much of it, or maybe what I have seen I'm not "reading into" too much (the non-verbal things). Still, I think it's normal to react the way you/I do. But I can't say if it gets better, because I'm in the early stages too. I hope it does. I spoke to a dear friend across the country who was having the parallel experience as me, at the same time, and she was totally like (about the deep eye gazing, when she saw her SO look at the new partner like that) " STOOOOOOOOOPPPPP THAT!!!!" (in her mind).

It's hard. Like you, I have felt like "THE" woman, and actually uncovered a "survival circuit" that sounds like, "I get my security from being the 'only one,'" and have worked a lot on that to be able to be where I am today.

Best wishes,
Marta

 

[redpepper]

I will change the sig.

Um, that was 4 hours ago. Waaaaitting...

 

[Seekinganswer]

Thanks Marta,

I know that "looking deep in the eyes" thing. It feels almost surreal, because I have to get my mind to click that S has this deep feeling for someone else. Still, I'd rather have them comfortable together, with me there, so that we maintain the openness. Any other way would be pretense that it is not happening, and that's not what we want.

I do hope the cut-up feeling dissipates with time. Thanks for caring.

 

[marta]

Yes, seekinganswer, I am with you on wanting to accept that his connection/love for this other person is true and real instead of pretending it's not. And being there, present, seeing some of it, helps me a lot, too.

 

[sage]

Compersion for monos

An online friend of mine suggested that compersion may be impossible for monos to achieve. I was initially taken aback. I thought that I was getting close to compersion in that, at my best, I can feel a deep satisfaction that I am coping with polyamory in my life and not going nuts. I also love how Z is after he comes back from being with his SO.

But then it struck me that these responses are actually all about me, which isn't really the idea around compersion. Another friend (these are the kinds of discussions us monos have) suggested that a mono feeling compersion is akin to a vegetarian feeling joy at a loved one eating a huge steak. She's actually right. That's exactly how it feels for me.

I'd really like to hear from any monos on here about how compersion works or doesn't work for them.

 

[MonoVCPHG]

I'd really like to hear from any monos on here about how compersion works or doesn't work for them.

Hmmm... compersion. I must admit I feel genuine compersion for what RP and PN have. Why is that, though? Why was it so automatic for me? Perhaps because it is not compersion at all. Perhaps it is because my sense of healthiness comes from seeing that I am not a negative for them. Perhaps it is because the health of their family unit, wife, husband and son, is so paramount to me, that it completely eradicates my own mono tendencies.

Keep in mind that although I am constantly promoting the well-being of their relationship, and enjoy knowing they are physically and emotionally intimate, the mere idea of Redpepper enjoying those same things with another man besides her husband makes me want to simply be her friend. I have no compersion for even the idea of that. From that perspective, I have no sense of compersion at all.

What I experience is probably more from a sense of value for marriage and families in general. I also had the same sense of concern for the woman I had an affair with. I felt no jealousy towards her husband, and promoted them trying to reconnect and be physical. I was already partially prepared to share a married woman, as odd as that sounds.

I have a friend who also had an affair with a married woman, and he felt no jealousy towards her husband, but lost his mind when he found out she had other boyfriends. Again, not really compersion, but something that allows a mono to share a lover.

So, in short, what I generally refer to as compersion comes from a much different place and is a very individual specific emotion. It's not the classic compersion polys talk about, but it is pure, and makes it second nature to share Redpepper with PN.

 

[redpepper]

Another friend (these are the kinds of discussions us monos have) suggested that a mono feeling compersion is akin to a vegetarian feeling joy at a loved one eating a huge steak. She's actually right that's exactly how it feels for me.

I'd really like to hear from any monos on here about how compersion works or doesn't work for them.

I'm not mono, obviously, but I'm responding anyway.

That is a very good way of putting it. As a vegetarian, I get it. What would be the meat-eaters version, I wonder? I am not convinced that analogy is compersion, though.

To me, compersion was like the feeling I had yesterday when I convinced mono to go out on his bike. as the weather was warm and sunny and dry! He has had it off the road for over a month, due to various things going on, and he finally got it back on the road now. I convinced him to leave work, which is crazy right now, and get out on the road at the time we usually have to ourselves every late afternoon before the others come home. I told him I was good with catching up around the house (even though I would've preferred to have seen him) and he eventually listened to me and went. I heard him getting ready, pouting over a little scrape he got on his bike, and then watched him drive down the side of the house through a flower bed to get to the road. He finally got to the road and drove off quickly and with glee. I could feel it emanating off him as he went. FREEDOM!

I was so happy for him; I was so in love with the moment, I cried. I watched him go and cried with happiness for his love of his bike and all it brings him. That is compersion.

It made me rush downstairs and cut all the plants back in the flower bed, tidy it all up so that when he came back he wouldn't have to drive through it all again and get more scrapes. I even took his recycling out, as he wouldn't have had time, because he was gone for a couple of hours! He came back completely himself, whole and happy.

In turn, it made him want to do things for me and our family, which made me feel loved and appreciated. And that spread to LB and PN. It goes on and on. Compersion spreads like love. It isn't about a vegetarian wincing when someone you love is eating a steak, and trying to be happy for them, I don't think. That is something else.

 

[sage]

Yeah, but you're as poly as they come. I get compersion. I really do. And even I have told Z to go off by himself with his SO when she comes to stay and she has tried to include me. And I'll be happy for them because I'll be working and the few hours they'll have together is nothing compared to the days he has when he goes to her place. Notice how it's still all about me.

But that isn't really what I mean. You're happy to give up Mono time because he's now living with you and yours and you have plenty to give. I'm happy for Z and J to go away for a few hours, because it is so much better for me than him going to stay with her for days. I'm talking about monos who don't feel they have an abundance of time and who often feel (rightly or wrongly) in a state of perpetual competition.

 

[sage]

Thanks for your reply, Mono. I didn't see it initially, only RP's. You are really the only mono I can think of who I thought might feel compersion. I agree, it is slightly different from the generally-accepted view of compersion, but I think it qualifies in its own right. You seem to see RP's relationship with PN to be absolutely necessary for your relationship with her to exist, so maybe you're able to feel compersion for them because you see their relationship as unavoidable. I don't think many monos would feel that way.

 

[MonoVCPHG]

Maybe you're able to feel compersion for them because you see their relationship as unavoidable.

I agree with most of your comment, except this part. The word "unavoidable" is a terrible way to put it, because it implies that I would prefer that their relationship didn't exist. That is completely not true. I am not the person to be Redpepper's primary. I couldn't give her what she needs. I would surrender my relationship with her in a heartbeat if they asked me to, because I care about their connection, and actually need them to be happy and healthy more than I need to express my love for Redpepper in the way I do now. My love for her is constant, but does not need a specific way to be communicated.

I can't stress enough that I embrace her relationship with PN with all my heart. I can't imagine her without him. They are a package deal. I need them to be together for this to work. There is nothing unavoidable about this. There is only joyful fulfilment in seeing them together and connected.

 

[SNeacail]

I thought that I was getting close to compersion in that, at my best, I can feel a deep satisfaction that I am coping with polyamory in my life and not going nuts. I also love how Z is after he comes back from being with his SO. But then it struck me that these responses are actually all about me, which isn't really the idea around compersion.

How do you respond when your husband is happy or upset about other things in his life? Would you still relate to it as how it affects you?

Recently, I thought my husband was hurt (emotionally) by his brother. I got really upset (admittedly, there was some PMS involved). It really had no effect on me whatsoever. Openly, my response to him was, "It will be OK. We will make alternate arrangements and you can spend time with your sister and parents instead." (He was to going see his brother out of state for the weekend.) Inside, I was seething for nearly 2 days-- "How dare he treat my husband that way?"

My husband wasn't nearly as upset as I was. He just doesn't get that way (not to mention it ended up being a big misunderstanding anyway). But it had nothing to do with me at all. My anger/frustration was all about my empathy for my husband.

I guess my question is, do you use the same rationale to explain why you are happy or upset about any other situation that actually don't involve you? How do you explain when he is excited or stressed about work, etc.? If you do rationalize it about how it affects you, then maybe that's just how your brain processes things.

I'm talking about monos who don't feel they have an abundance of time and who often feel (rightly or wrongly) in a state of perpetual competition.

This can happen even in a mono marriage, when the "other party" is an organization, volunteer activity or the kids. For years, I felt that I was in competition with my husband's volunteer activities. He has a hard time saying "NO" when asked for help. There was a definite lack of balance in our home life. It wasn't until I forced him to write EVERY activity out on a calendar that he realized that he was only home on average 1-2 days a week.

 

[sage]

I agree with most of your comment except this part. The word "unavoidable" is a terrible way to put it because it implies that I would prefer that their relationship didn't exist.

Yes. Sorry, I wrote that late at night, woke up to it and went "whoops." I'm glad you haven't taken offense. But I think you get what I mean. Some relationships are probably dependent on polyamory being in the picture, but not necessarily the specific parties involved. Some relationships, and I think mine is one, involve a unique third party. If she pulled the plug, Z would be heartbroken, but we would get through it. And he may then be able to satisfy himself with more platonic female friendships.

 

[sage]

How do you respond when your husband is happy or upset about other things in his life? Would you still relate to it as how it affects you? I guess my question is, do you use the same rationale to explain why you are happy or upset about any other situation that actually don't involve you? How do you explain when he is excited or stressed about work, etc.? If you do rationalize it about how it affects you, then maybe that's just how your brain processes things.

Thanks for your reply. No, thankfully, I am not normally so self-centered. I do genuinely feel empathy for him in other areas that have nothing to do with me. In fact, I wrote on here about how I was actually feeling his pain when his relationship with J was going poorly and I felt she was pulling away from him.

I think it comes down to only being able to feel compersion when there is an absence of pain. And maybe that's why it's harder for monos than for polys. I think I was shortchanging myself a little, saying that them spending time alone together here was just better than them being away Thinking on it further, I am feeling genuinely happy about it for them. Yay me!

 

[SNeacail]

I think I was short changingmyself a little saying that them spending time alone together here was just better than them being away. Thinking on it further, I am feeling genuinely happy about it for them.

Maybe it's more about balance and feelings of being left out when they are away.

 

[MonoVCPHG]

No offence taken, Sage.

 

[redpepper]

You're happy to give up Mono time because he's now living with you and yours and you have plenty to give. I'm happy for Z and J to go away for a few hours, because it is so much better for me than him going to stay with her for days. I'm talking about monos who don't feel they have an abundance of time, and who often feel (rightly or wrongly) in a state of perpetual competition.

Yes, he does live with me. But it had nothing to do with time, and everything to do with making sure he was doing what makes him happy, with or without me. I want my loves to be the happiest they can possibly be, because that is what brings me happiness. That isn't about time so much, as I prefer quality over quantity. If wanted to go off on a week's trip on his bike, sure, I would miss him, but that would not be overridden by the joy I would have in knowing he will have a great time, completely immerse himself in his bike brain, and then start to miss me and come home feeling fulfilled, complete, happy, grounded and full of extra love for me. It is exactly the same as if he had a lover. Really, I think everyone in relationships should approach their partners this way... the more compersion for everything they do, the healthier the relationship, in my experience.

It comes down to only being able to feel compersion when there is an absence of pain.

This is where I would miss him on that week and still have compersion. I think whoever said it's a balance was bang on, for me.

And maybe that's why it's harder for monos than for polys.

Really? It's harder? I am not so sure I agree with this division, other than capacity to engage in more than one partnership at a time or not. I don't believe that we are so different that we don't get compersion. To me, compersion, as I just said above, is a relationship choice that is based on independence and acceptance of that. Everyone, mono or poly, can be codependent or independent and believe they have successful relationships that sustain them.