Breastfeeding

[Magdlyn]

Is it really a problem if they do it more? In a poly relationship, if there is no hierarchy, then all the parents could be parents on equal terms. With fathers, it happens that nobody knows who the bio father is, or cares. With mothers, you know for sure, but it seems to me having more people take care of the kid shouldn't take anything away.
And in a lesbian relationship, both are equally the mother, it seems to me. I understand that the child needs bonding and only knows the person he's been inside at first, but if they can be adopted, shouldn't they be able to be raised by several moms? Is it important to have one person take care of the majority of the feeding?

Good question, and one that can be decided upon individually in each family/tribe.

I ask because although I wanted to induce breastfeeding in case of adoption, my boyfriend and I both agreed that he would also feed the baby so they'd bond with him too. (Not breastfeed the baby. Feed them formula, most likely, or if I happen to produce enough milk, then breast milk.) We wanted it to be shared as equally as we could. But are you saying that there needs to be one parent doing it more? In that case, does it have to be a female? He'd probably be much closer to the baby than I would, as he wants a child more than I do,

You don't know this yet. You might get more bonded with your infant than you think! Oxytocin is a powerful hormone!

So it wouldn't seem fair to create more bonding with me than with him. I think it would make both of us uncomfortable with the situation.

Well, that is a whole 'nother topic, and a much more common one. Many new mothers I've worked with in LLL come to meetings saying that they want to pump and have their partner (male) feed the baby often.

First of all, if you have a full supply of breastmilk, you have the hassle of finding time to pump. Of course, if you were a working mom and the dad was the stay at home caregiver, this would be only practical. However, if you're staying home with the baby for say, the first year, you'll be doing the majority of the feeding. When the father got home, you'd need to pump all evening and at least once in the night, if he was going to then take that, fill bottles and feed the baby. You might even need to find time to pump during the day in between feeds. Then you'd need to wash those bottles and nipples too, deal with storing the milk, then warming it, etc. Most dads lose interest quick, because it's so much easier for the baby to get it straight from the tap!

Dads can and do bond with their breastfed babies by holding them, walking the floors, changing them, bathing them, taking them for walks in the sling or stroller, and later, playing with them or feeding them their solid foods.

 

[Tonberry]

Interesting side note, lactation can be induced in men as well.

Yes, I was aware of it, which is why I specified we weren't interested in making him breasfeed the kid. I think there is too much room for it having bad repercussions both for him and the child (mostly as far as outside reactions to it are concerned, and regarding his own feelings of being less of a man, those kind of things).

However, I thought not all men would be able to produce milk in the end. Did I misunderstand? Was it actually that although they can produce a tiny amount, some never produce enough for anything to drink it?

 

[redpepper]

I didn't want my friend to breast feed my boy because she smokes btw. I am lead to believe that chemicals would have been passed on.

 

[Tonberry]

You don't know this yet. You might get more bonded with your infant than you think! Oxytocin is a powerful hormone!

That's true! And I wouldn't even consider having a child if I was only lukewarm. I know that if/when I have a child, I want to devote myself to that, and I'm sure I would love the child immensely. It's just that he's wanted to be a parent much more, while I would really be fine either way. And it would feel like "stealing his thing" if in the end, the child had a close bond with me and less of a bond with him. Really, my main concern was that he would feel left out.


But you're right:

Dads can and do bond with their breastfed babies by holding them, walking the floors, changing them, bathing them, taking them for walks in the sling or stroller, and later, playing with them or feeding them their solid foods.

There are lots of ways to bond with a child, just like fathers can bond with a kid during pregnancy by talking to and touching the kid through the womb, etc. There will be a lot of room for the bonding either way, so we probably should cross that bridge when we reach it and not worry too much about things that might not even come up in the end.

About the pumping, how long can the milk be kept? And I mean in a regular home's conditions, so possibilities of freezing it if it doesn't damage it, but not in an industrial-quality freezer. If freezing is a bad idea, then how long does it keep in a fridge?

 

[redpepper]

I used to pump and keep it in the fridge for 24 hours before delivering it to the milk bank at the hospital. I don't know how long they kept it. No one asked me to get tested for anything, come to think about it.

 

[LovingRadiance]

I froze it. Just be sure you write on the bag the date so you can use them in order. The bags come with lines for all of that.

Great thread. Much enjoyed reading it.

Tonberry, my youngest can't handle casein from dairy. My sister can't either. We've gone dairy-free in our home because now it looks like the new grandbaby can't either!

In both the kids it causes them to projectile puke. I'm talking a newborn (under a month) 3-6 feet projectile vomiting. The breastfeeding support people at WIC tried to tell me I was wrong, until she did it in their office. Then they understood that I really wasn't exaggerating. Odd, yes. Impossible, obviously not.

Ironically, formula would have been a worse nightmare, because neither can handle soy either. So breastmilk and mama avoiding all forms of dairy was the key.

I was SO annoyed to find that the "dairy-free cheese" had casein from COW MILK added to it. It's so aggravating!

Mags, I think it's awesome that you are so talkative about this stuff.

FYI, my grandbaby is doing good. They did get dairy on accident on the plane ride down, which resulted in a couple days of misery for them both. But they're doing well together now.

 

[Tonberry]

I was SO annoyed to find that the "dairy-free cheese" had casein from COW MILK added to it. It's so aggravating!

Yes, it seems to defeat the point! I believe that's so the cheese melts, though. I've been using mixes of sesame and nutritional yeast to reproduce cheesy flavours. None of it melts, though.

 

[LovingRadiance]

I would reckon you are correct Tonberry. We've found a few vegan cheeses-and they don't melt as you noted.

I was just telling GG today that I'd LOVE a plate of nachos. He commented "no cheese". Well DUH, but that doesn't mean I can't wish!

 

[Morningglory629]

I used to pump and keep it in the fridge for 24 hours before delivering it to the milk bank at the hospital. I don't know how long they kept it. No one asked me to get tested for anything come to think about it.

Never thought to do this. Pumping. It's been so long and this may sound ridiculous because I haven't thought about it in 13 years but could I have frozen it? BTW loved breastfeeding and did so for 6 months with each of the three older kids, and a year for the youngest. I think it is probably the most important bonding/nurturing thing to do for your child, aside from the obvious nutritional value. That's my 2cents.
I never thought of donating it. Hmmm "food for thought."

 

[LovingRadiance]

You can freeze it. They make bags just for freezing it. You can donate it too. Our NICU here takes donations for the preemies.

 

[Magdlyn]

I'm surprised RP wasn't screened when she donated her milk, 8 or so years ago!

In US milk banks, you'd definitely be required to be tested for various diseases, be a non-smoker, etc.

Fresh breastmilk is alive. Freezing kills of some of its properties, but of course, it's still superior to anything created from pasteurized cow's milk, sucrose and some added chemicals.

Human milk storage guidelines can be found here:

http://www.kellymom.com/bf/pumping/milkstorage.html

Interestingly, since human milk (and all mammalian milks) contain live antibodies, milk that is expressed into a clean, fairly sterile (as in washed in hot water in a dishwasher) container, which is left out at room temperature, will, when tested several hours later, have less bacteria in it than when first expressed. Some of the bacteria from the mother's skin and from the container will be killed by the properties in the milk.

 

[MrFarFromRight]

lactation

Yep, the breast-feeding part, while not exactly a problem, is a bit of a challenge right now, because when the baby needs to eat, Mum is the only one who can provide atm.

Many people would feel freaked out at the idea, but it is possible for a woman who has never been pregnant to induce lactation. AH, if it were only possible for a man!

 

[BlackUnicorn]

I know, I had this inadvertently happen with a gf once or twice. Too much stimulation -> WOW ! Thank ye gods I was pre-informed that this might happen and didn't freak out.

 

[redpepper]

Yes it is. I know a lesbian couple where the other woman, who didn't have the child learned how to breast feed. After a couple of years she decided she was really a man and has now transitioned... yup, its all possible.

 

[Mohegan]

Many people would feel freaked out at the idea, but it is possible for a woman who has never been pregnant to induce lactation. AH, if it were only possible for a man!

Actualy it is totaly possible for men to lactate.

 

[Tonberry]

Many people would feel freaked out at the idea, but it is possible for a woman who has never been pregnant to induce lactation. AH, if it were only possible for a man!

Actually it is totally possible for men to lactate.

I was just about to say that. Don't expect to produce buckets, but you can get yourself to lactate. The issue usually is less of biological impossibility and more of pride issues (men worried it makes them less of a man or something like that).

 

[IndieSolo]

Many people would feel freaked out at the idea, but it is possible for a woman who has never been pregnant to induce lactation.

I always thought this is pretty much common knowledge. I wouldn't think anyone would freak out about it.

 

[Magdlyn]

When I was still cycling, I was always able to express a few drops of "milk" (colostrum) from my breasts in the week before my period. I think this is fairly common.

But there is documentation of grandmothers past menopause taking over nursing babies when the mother dies.

 

[TheBlackSwede]

I was just about to say that. Don't expect to produce buckets, but you can get yourself to lactate. The issue usually is less of biological impossibility and more of pride issues (men worried it makes them less of a man or something like that).

It actually DOES make them less of a man, that's a valid concern. Lower Testosterone, increased Estrogen. ...and along with that, the myriad increased health risks - prostate cancer, heart disease, stroke, even lower IQ. What's good for the goose is NOT good for the gander.

 

[Magdlyn]

It actually DOES make them less of a man, that's a valid concern. Lower Testosterone, increased Estrogen. ...and along with that, the myriad increased health risks - prostate cancer, heart disease, stroke, even lower IQ. What's good for the goose is NOT good for the gander.

Um, where did you get that information from? It's a scientific fact any man that spends his life with a pregnant woman becomes more in tune with her hormonally. His prolaction and oxytocin levels go up, and this is natural and healthy, to increase the bonding experience with his baby once it's born.

Those diseases you warn against with regards to male lactation seem spurious to me, as breastfeeding is temporary. And I've never read anything about women's testosterone going down when lactating, just that her prolaction levels go up. A man's estrogen wouldn't go up during lactation, as estrogen controls ovulation, not lactation.

A man's IQ wouldnt go down just because he lactated!