Struggling

[StillaStudent]

Hey guys, new to the forum here.

I've been with my wife for about 7 years. I'm in my early 30s. She's in her mid 20s. About 4 months ago, she asked for my permission to sleep with a mutual friend. We both expected this to be a "friends with benefits" situation. She has since fallen in love with the guy, and so we are now working our way into the polyamory world. This has caused a major strain on our relationship and my feelings toward her. But I suppose this is an intro forum, so I'll leave it at that.

 

[MrFarFromRight]

This has caused a major strain on our relationship and my feelings toward her. But I suppose this is an intro forum so I'll leave it at that.

Your intro can be as long as you like. It's your intro. Since

this has caused a major strain on our relationship and my feelings toward her,

I'd advise you to go into it in more detail.

It's easy for any of us to write: "Hi! Welcome!" but if you want helpful advice or feedback from people who have gone through pretty much what you're going through now, it would help us to know what you're going through.

BTW, Hi! Welcome!

 

[Derbylicious]

Hello. It's early days yet. You guys will find your "new normal".

 

[StillaStudent]

Hello. It's early days yet. You guys will find your "new normal".

I guess that's a large part of it. I don't want a new normal, I want my wife back.

A few months back, our relationship was as good as it had ever been. I'll be the first to admit that I don't have all of the excitement in our relationship we once had. We have a kid that has definately gotten in the way of our relationship, and there's no novelty. But I swear, I fall in love with her over again several times throughout my day. I find most women boring and vapid, but my wife excites me and seems to be more attractive to me than the day I first met her.

So a few months ago, she asked to sleep with a mutual friend. After a lot of talking about it, I told her it was okay. Our relationship was fantastic and I figured this would be something fun she could do. I'm no dummy and I recognize that I'm not all things to all people. I get attracted to other women, too. She and I were sleeping together daily, sometimes more often than that. So I figured this to be a friends with benefits thing. I told her I had a couple of concerns:

That she'd end up seeing him as a boyfriend.
That it'd be awkward. (He's also my friend.)
That it'd cut into how much sex we're having.
That there'd be secret winks and stuff and inside jokes when they're together I'd be out of.
That the sex would become a regular thing, instead of an occasional thing.

She's very attracted to this guy for a lot of reasons, but also that they share a common hobby. (This comes up later).) It's one I'm incapable of doing. Plus, I'm also okay with her having a life outside of me. I'm not trying to smother her.

She asked to go on a road trip with a few friends, including this guy. (We'll call him Steve). I've not been a possessive man to date and I'm cool with her hanging out with other guys. But all the friends skip out, except Steve. They leave for the weekend. I cannot go, because I have to watch our daughter. Over the weekend, she ends up going down on him a few times. I responded poorly when she told me after she got back. I felt ditched because I was watching our child and his dog, and she didn't talk to me much over the trip. But I was mostly in the wrong and got over this.

Well, over that month our relationship takes a dive. She proceeds to tell me that she loves me but isn't "in love" with me. I've gotten boring. I'm angry. I'm depressed. I'm not passionate about anything. Mind you, I was in the military (happily) previously and she gave me the ultimatum, "her or the military." I gave up the military and a few other jobs I found interesting for her.

So she's sleeping with this guy (who IS in the military), getting excited about their shared hobby (she sleeps with him EVERY time they do this), and telling me she isn't excited by me.

A lot of the problems she outlined I've had, I've since gone a long way to correct (and for good reason; she was RIGHT). Now our relationship is MUCH corrected, except for the depression I have over her relationship with this guy.

Again, he is a mutual friend. He now lives with us. I signed off on this because I thought her excitement would die down having him around all the time. Instead, it got worse. They sleep together a few times a week. They generally take advantage of just about any time I'm not around to at least make out.

Let me be clear: when things are good in our relationship, this is a huge turn-on. I'm not threatened by her wanting to sleep with other people. Hell, I want to sleep with other people. She says that she loves him and he excites her. That's the threat.

I can tell her to stop at any time, and she will. But I know she likes it, and it isn't going to change how she feels, so I'm trying to let this go as far as I can without becoming overly miserable. He's effectively her boyfriend at this point. I decided that I thought I could handle this. I had a hard time articulating my feelings, but when I could, I figured it came down to this:

It's important to me that I'm her best lay.
It's important to me that she loves me MORE.

She's mentioned having V relationship. That's unacceptable to me. A checkmark shape, sure, but not a V. She tells me that her brain doesn't work in a way to rank her love. This is frustrating. I cannot understand this thought process. I can understand loving multiple people. I can understand loving them differently. But I can't understand how you can have multiple people at the top rung of the love ladder. I'll admit I've never REALLY loved anyone other than my wife and child, but I'll be the first to admit (as sick as it may seem to people) that I love my wife more than my child.

As to the sex part, she and Steve have really aggressive, acrobatic, wild sex. She and I have sex that's slower, with more grinding. She says that I'm a better lay and the only one that can get her off, but she has never been someone to let me have more wild, acrobatic sex because I'm a little more endowed and it hurts her. She's much more corrective of me during sex than him. So this all together makes it really hard to believe that I'm a better lay.

A large part of this is that I don't feel I get a fair shake. She's into this military guy after getting me to leave the military. This guy has said, were the roles reversed, no way would he let her sleep with someone else. She's even talking about joining his branch of the military (which only makes sense as a big deal to those in my branch). I don't think it's fair that I'm the boring guy because I have a baby with her. We have the mundane crap we have to take care of together. When I'm dealing with our child she is effectively single, if only for a few hours.

I feel cheated. I signed on for her to have a friends with bennies relationship, but now we have something that is a threat to my own relationship with her. Knowing that she loves him is okay, but knowing that I'm not clearly her #1 hurts me. I mean, I probably am right now, but she's quick to say that she doesn't think this way and readily would want a V. This hurts my feelings toward her. If I'm not clearly her #1, then it makes me feel that maybe our relationship isn't what I always thought it was, and what I wanted in a relationship. In short, the fact is, the realization 7 years and 1 child later that she doesn't feel about me the way I feel about her is emotionally devastating.

I'm not throwing the towel in on my marriage. In part, I believe that she loves me more right now, even if she doesn't articulate it. So part of me figures I should ride it out and it'll work out, or I'll end up in a V, in which case, I will leave. I still absolutely adore my wife. When I feel like I'm her #1, this is hot. When I don't, it is absolute torture.

Thanks for reading this much, guys. It was a novel!
SaS

 

[Derbylicious]

I guess that's a large part of it. I don't want a new normal, I want my wife back.

You still have your wife. You just don't have her all to yourself all the time. Rather than focusing on what you don't have, focus on what you do have. Your relationship with her isn't about her relationship with him.

A few months back, our relationship was as good as it's ever been. I'll be the first to admit that I don't have all of the excitement in our relationship we once had. We have a kid that has definately gotten in the way of our relationship and there's no novelty. But I fall in love with her over again several times throughout my day. My wife excites me and seems to be more attractive to me than the day I first met her.

Kids change things. Spontaneity tends to go out the window (at least for a while). It's just a part of that stage of your life. It's good though that you find her interesting and attractive. That's what will get you through the first few years with small children.

A few months ago she asked to sleep with a mutual friend... I told her it was okay. Our relationship was fantastic and I figured this would be something fun she could do. I recognize that I'm not all things to all people. I get attracted to other women too. She and I were sleeping together daily, sometimes more often than that. I figured this to be a friends with benefits thing... concerns:

That she'd end up seeing him as a boyfriend.
That it'd be awkward. (He's also my friend.)
That it'd cut into how much sex we're having.
That there'd be secret winks and stuff and inside jokes when they're together I'm out of.
That the sex would become a regular thing.

It's bad form to have inside jokes and keep someone out of it if you're all together, regardless of relationship status. Also I think that hanging out with him is only going to be as awkward as the three of you make it. If you were friends before, there's no reason to not carry on. Other than that, why does it matter how much sex they're having? If you're okay with them having sex, I don't understand why it matters what the frequency is. Women tend to be able to have lots of sex, so her sex life with him really shouldn't impact her sex life with you.

 

[Derbylicious]

So she's very attracted to this guy for a lot of reasons, but also that they share a common hobby (this comes up later). It's one I'm incapable of doing. Plus, I'm also okay with her having a life outside of me. I'm not trying to smother her.

So, she asks to go on a road trip with a few friends, including Steve I'm cool with her hanging out with other guys. So all the friends skip out, except Steve. I cannot go because I have to watch our daughter. She ends up going down on him a few times. I responded poorly when she told me after she got back. I felt ditched because I was watching our child and his dog, and she didn't talk to me much over the trip. But I was mostly in the wrong and got over this.

Are you able to do things when she is home with your child? It's not fair if it's all one way. But yet again, I'm wondering why you're focusing on the sex. You knew that she was going to be away, unavailable to you, and you know they are sexual with each other.

I'm glad to hear you got over it. Sometimes we tend to react to emotion and speak too soon.

Our relationship takes a dive. She proceeds to tell me that she loves me, but isn't "in love" with me... I'm boring, angry, depressed. I'm not passionate about anything. I was in the military (happily) previously, and she gave me the ultimatum, "her or the military." I gave up the military and a few other jobs I found interesting for her.

So, she's sleeping with this guy (who IS in the military), getting excited about their shared hobby (she sleeps with him EVERY time they do this), and telling me she isn't excited by me. Now, a lot of the problems I had, I've since gone a long way to correct (and for good reason; she was RIGHT). Now our relationship is MUCH corrected, except for the depression I have over her relationship with this guy.

She's wrapped up in her NRE. She is saying things that she shouldn't. It upsets me when I hear that people are saying things like this. As for giving up something that you really enjoyed doing for her, I'm sensing that you resent her a bit for it. If you've made the decision now, you should really find a way to be ok with it.

You say your relationship with her is much improved. Focus on that, rather than what she has with him. She's still with you, by choice. If she didn't want to be, she would be gone by now.

... he now lives with us. I signed off on this because I thought her excitement would die down having him around all the time. Instead it got worse. They sleep together a few times a week. They generally take advantage of just about any time I'm not around to at least make out together.

If you aren't happy having him live there, it's time to have a talk about him getting his own place. You shouldn't be uncomfortable in your own house. Make it clear that you aren't trying to end their relationship, but you need your own space back, and that the experiment of having him live there isn't working for you. As for them making out and having sex at every opportunity, that's just going to happen with a new relationship. They're both running on hormones.

When things are good in our relationship, this is a huge turn on. I'm not threatened by her wanting to sleep with other people. Hell, I want to sleep with other people. She says that she loves him and he excites her. That's the threat.

Are you worried that she's going to leave you for him? Is that where the threat comes from? Has she made any indication at all that she doesn't want to be with you anymore? Control over someone else is an illusion. Even if she didn't have another relationship, there's nothing saying that she will stay with you, or not fall in love with someone else (even if she didn't act on it).

I can tell her to stop at any time and she will. But I know she likes it, and it isn't going to change how she feels, so I try to let this go as far as I can without becoming overly miserable. I have a hard time articulating my feelings, but when I could, I figured it came down to this:

It's important to me that I'm her best lay.
It's important to me that she loves me MORE.

So sex with different people is different. For the most part there is no worse and no better, there's just different energy. If you're connected to someone it's going to be good. As for loving someone more, a lot of us can't really do that. I either love someone or I don't. I have more entanglements of day-to-day life with my husband, and more history with him, but I don't love him more than my girlfriend. She can tell you she loves you more, and the sex is better with you, but chances are she would just be saying it because that's what you want to hear.

A V relationship is unacceptable to me. A checkmark shape, sure, but not a V. She tells me that her brain doesn't work in a way to rank her love. This is frustrating. I cannot understand this thought process. I can understand loving multiple people. I can understand loving them differently. But I can't understand how you can have multiple people at the top rung of the love ladder. I've never REALLY loved anyone other than my wife and child... I love my wife more than my child.

As to the sex part, she and Steve have really aggressive, acrobatic, wild sex. She and I have sex that's slower, with more grinding. She says that I'm a better lay and the only one that can get her off, but she has never been someone to let me have more wild, acrobatic sex because I'm a little more endowed and it hurts her. She's much more corrective of me during sex than him. So this all together makes it really hard to believe that I'm a better lay.

Do you believe that she loves you? Do you and she have a satisfying sex life? If you do, then what she has with him is irrelevant. If you don't, then you have things to work on between the two of you, and what she has with him is still irrelevant.

A large part of this is that I don't feel I get a fair shake. She's into this military guy after getting me to leave the military. This guy has said, were the roles reversed, no way would he let her sleep with someone else. She's even talking about joining his branch of the military (which only makes sense as a big deal to those in my branch). I don't think it's fair because I'm the boring guy because I have a baby with her. We have the mundane crap we have to take care of together. When I'm dealing with our child she is effectively single, if only for a few hours.

Stop comparing yourself to him. There are always going to be differences between you and other people. I know how it is to feel like the boring co-parent. I've felt that way, too. Find a way to make yourself feel un-boring. Do something you love and feel passionate about. Find your fire again and start sharing it with her. Also have her stay home with the child for equal time as you are giving her, and get out and do something. You are both this child's parents and should be putting equal time in parenting said child. Or, heck, if you're resenting her being out, get a sitter and go out and do something fun too.

I feel cheated. I signed on for a friends with bennies relationship and now have a something that is a threat to my own relationship with my wife. Knowing that she loves him is okay, but knowing that I'm not clearly her #1 hurts me. I mean, I probably am right now, but she's quick to say that she doesn't think this way and readily would want a V. It hurts my feelings toward her. If I'm not clearly her #1, then it makes me feel that maybe our relationship isn't what I always thought it was, and what I wanted in a relationship. In short, the fact that the realization 7 years and 1 child later that she doesn't feel about me the way I feel about her is emotionally devastating.

I'm wondering if you're really hearing what she is saying. It sounds to me that she has 2 #1 men in her life. You haven't been replaced. She's just found someone else who is worthy of the love she has to give.

I'm not throwing the towel in on my marriage. In part I believe that she loves me more right now, even if she doesn't articulate it. So part of me figures I should ride it out and it'll work out or I'll end in a V, in which I will leave. I still absolutely adore my wife. When I feel like I'm her #1, this is hot. When I don't, it is absolute torture.

I'm sorry this was harsh. I really think you need to focus more on yourself and your relationship with your wife. Talk to her about what you need from her to feel loved (not to be confused with what you would like her not to have with Steve). Set some boundaries around how often you are willing to stay home with your child. Look into getting some sitters. Find something you love to do and share your excitement with your wife. Oh, and get your house back. If you're not 100% on board with him living with you, then he needs to be living somewhere else.

 

[IndieSolo]

Yes. You need to stop comparing yourself to him.

She is caught up in the heady euphoria of what is called NRE.

Moving him in with you seems to be too much too soon. Take back your house! You can work out a schedule where she spends half the week with him, half with you.

I've never seen anyone talk about a V as compared to a checkmark, as if the length of the "legs" in the V or checkmark represents the importance of the person at the hinge. You must be very visually-oriented.

I must say, I have never been able to understand the mindset of someone being okay with their spouse having "no-strings" sex, as if she's a toy, but not being okay with the spouse developing deeper feelings. I can't tell if what your wife has with this guy isn't really much more than sex. But wouldn't you want the person you love to have a life filled with love, whether from friends, family, or lovers, rather than just recreational sex? It doesn't diminish your love or your value to her for her to find love in more than one person.

 

[Erosa]

Wow. After reading this, I have to say, I don't think poly is actually what you are dealing with.

You said your wife doesn't feel excited by you? That, to me, sounds like there is some underlying problem in the relationship between you and your wife.

There is an old business principle: when a company needs money to expand, that's good; when a company needs money to survive, that's BAD!

I have to say that unfortunately, I have found many people enter poly when a relationship (rather than being truly healthy and looking to expand) is wounded and in need of new life force.

Maybe you should ask your wife for a break from poly until you and she have truly figured everything out.

 

[MrFarFromRight]

Derbylicious and NYCindie, although I think that your comments are good, helpful, and need to be considered, I want to comment on a few aspects:

It's bad form to have inside jokes and keep someone out of it if you're all together regardless of relationship status. Hanging out with him is only going to be as awkward as the three of you make it. If you were friends before, there's no reason to not carry on. Other than that, why does it matter how much sex they're having? If you're ok with them having sex, I don't understand why it matters what the frequency is. Women tend to be able to have lots of sex, so her sex life with him really shouldn't impact her sex life with you.

a) There is obviously a lot of NRE going on here. That can be painful for the one who feels left out. SaS, if you're new to this term, run a search on it on this board and read others' experiences. You are certainly not alone in this.
b) "If you're ok with them having sex, I don't understand why it matters what the frequency is." I think it's a case of one-upmanship which, although not particularly healthy (nor helpful) for those taking part or feeling like that, is very human, and more ingrained in those with a military past or present, I would imagine.

I'm wondering why you're focusing on the sex.

I don't think that SaS is "focusing on the sex". He's written that if it were only sex, he could deal with it. He's focusing on the emotions involved. And while I personally wouldn't want my lover(s) to be the kind of person who can have sex totally detached from emotions, I try to recognise that many people feel differently than me on this.

I've never seen anyone talk about a V as compared to a checkmark, as if the length of the "legs" in the V or checkmark represents the importance of the person at the hinge. You must be very visually-oriented.

I found this a very inventive and useful description for the way many people actually feel. They call their relationships Vs, but they're really checkmarks. At least SaS is honest about wanting this. (And you made a little mistake: the length of the "legs" in the V or checkmark represents the relative importance of the two arms to the person at the hinge.)

Erosa: a very good comment, but I want to take you up on

I don't think poly is actually what you are dealing with.

Polyamory doesn't mean that all problems have been solved and that everybody's perfectly happy. There are obviously very strong problems to be dealt with here. I rather think that SaS's wife continues to love him. She's just carried away on NRE and was very tactless in her comment that she finds him boring.

SaS, I think that I know about PART of your dilemma. Your wife isn't treating you fairly. This is the sort of thing that bothers me, and I use it to differentiate between "justified" and "unjustified" jealousy. The former is a sign of insecurity. The latter is a sign of "I'm being treated unfairly here."

When AIDs started to get public attention, my girlfriend M went to a conference where it was talked about, on the same weekend that I was spending with another girlfriend. That week, she started to lay into me for being irresponsible, for not protecting us against the dangers of AIDs. (I had talked with the other woman [a former girlfriend I'd just reconnected with] before any sex took place and she'd told me that her last sexual encounter [which didn't include fucking] had been 2 years earlier. I'm not saying that there was no risk but that - back in the early days of awakening consciousness about AIDs, before we knew much about it - I felt that I had been responsible. M herself hadn't taken stronger measures against AIDs before this revelation she received at the conference.)

So M insisted that from that moment on, we not have sex with anybody else without using condoms, and that we immediately both have an AIDs test. I had no problem with that: I thought that it was a sensible decision. What I did have problems with was that, after M's laying into me, I went and got my AIDs test straight away (and let M know that I was free) but M never had the test! I found that hypocritical and unfair. Double standards suck!

So, SaS, when you write that your wife insisted that "it's the military or me!" and you left the military because of that, and then she starts a relationship with someone who's still in the military (without - yet? - insisting that he leave it for her), and to top that off, gives a strong impression of being more smitten with him than with you... I can fully understand your feeling that she's not playing straight with you, and that, coming from someone you love, hurts. Don't I know it?

 

[Magdlyn]

Oh, how I can relate to this situation. It bears a lot of resemblance to when my ex-h first got a gf, 10 years ago.

We'd been together 20 years and raised 3 kids to teenagerhood (they were about 10-15yrs old at that point). Our relationship felt strong enough to open it, as we'd had more time for being together because the kids were more independent.

So... anyway, we met this woman who was supposed to be our unicorn (hot bi babe), but she turned out to not be into me, just into him (not bi after all, just bi-curious).

He was overcome by new relationship energy (NRE) and wanted a V. I didnt think she'd earned that status. Also I didn't understand his feelings of love for her were NRE, and felt he was more into her than into me. Despite our history and good sex life, I felt pushed aside. When he told me he wanted to move her in and make her a 2nd wife (after like, 3 dates), that they were soul mates, I made them break it off. It all felt too Mormon-like to me. He wasn't cool with me seeing other men then, just women (I'm bisexual).

Anyway! Enough about me.

What's this about your sex with her having to be slow and not wild because you're well endowed? I don't get that. Does it hurt her when you penetrate her too deeply? Some men with big cocks wear a donut shaped ring at the base of their cock to prevent over-penetration. Maybe that would help you.

She's not being fair about the military career thing.

Your idea of having him move in to cause familiarity to bring contempt seems to have backfired. Healthy 3way living conditions should be to bring more love into the equation, not less. It's almost always a very bad idea to bring a new lover fulltime into your home when you don't know them well. Your wife is just seeing an idealized version of her new crush, and that's very exciting, but not reality.

 

[SNeacail]

One thing that I see happening is that you have given up part of yourself to be what she "thinks" (has told you) you should be. Now that you have changed who you are to fit into her mold, she finds it boring. This is not unusual. Re-claim yourself! Do the things that make you happy, follow the career that makes you happy. If that means back into the military, then do it.

Make a schedule and start looking around for some reliable babysitters! Neither of you should be stuck at home all the time with the kid just so the other can go out an party. You need a balance. You and your wife also need some date nights. Can Steve watch the kid so you and your wife can go out once a week?

 

[redpepper]

I don't know what others have said, so I may be repeating or I may not. In any case, if there is a repeat then at least you know that more than one person thinks it. If not I hope this perspective is helpful. Obviously you can take it or leave it. In any case this will be a bit of an ass kicking

It sounds to me like its time to put your foot down. You love your wife, I get that, but you aren't setting boundaries and aren't doing what you need to do for you and your child.

I think buddy has to move out first off. Why he moved in in the first place is beyond me. He never should of. There is far too much going on in your relationship to justify it being a good idea. I think it needs to be known that he has to pack his bags and find a place because your marriage is crumbling around you.

That isn't good for you or your child I don't think. Your child will get attached to someone prematurely and that isn't fair. Yours is a tenous situaion at best and they might be eventually abandoned by this person and their mother in a split up that was brought on by his moving in. Why would you want that on your shoulders.

The trip you took sounds lovely for them and crap for you. Why would you agree to that, seriously?! To play the martyr or to make her happy? Either way you lucked out while they had a good time at your expense. Stop doing that. It isn't serving anyone. The balance is off and is slowly getting worse because you don't put your foot down. They are using you.

Its awesome she has two guys but it isn't a competition. She is telling you shit that is making you feel that way and you are allowoing it or asking for it. What they do is their business and up to them. I don't advise you ask about it, involve yourself in it or think about it. That way you can concentrate on what you have with her rather than what they are doing.

It sounds to me like some order needs to happen. Regular date nights where he baysits and you two go out, regular family time just the three of you (child included), regular date nights for them and a complete balance of time. If you all live together then in my experience it works better to be sure time is divided in such a way that EVERYONE is content.

Time to start talking. Figure out what your boundaries are and stick to them when you talk to them. Then they get to say what theirs are and so negotiating begins. Add to them things you want to do; the job you dropped, take it up again, the military, join again, the projects you want to do, do them. I think he should go, but if he stays its time to arrange child care. Organize when he looks after the kid so that you can do some stuff you want. You playing babysitter all the time is not okay I don't think. Again, using you.

Dropping your life to please her is not a great idea. Do you see that? It never was. I don't think you get to play martyr for decisions like quiting because she said. All those things made you interesting and you and now she says you're boring? You have allowed her to create a man out of you when that was your job. You are your own person, love aside, you should be doing what YOU want and need while considering her and your child, not giving up because she said. Start living like that! Maybe she will find you interesting again because of it. I hate when women do that shit, men let them and then no one wins and the relationship ends.

Lastly, I think it might be wise to figure out if buddy is a cowboy. Is he in this to steel her away? Some of what you said about him indicates it might be so.

Straighten up, get your head on straight, think clearly and put your "falling in love with her ten times a day" or whatever aside. I think your vision on this has been severly blurry.

 

[MonoVCPHG]

Get him out and get some space to fix your primary relationship. This was way too soon.

 

[Carma]

One thing I've found in "poly world" is that my husband's emotions change. A lot. OFTEN. If we jumped to the beat of his drum, we'd be psycho by now! I don't think you need to throw the baby out with the bathwater.... that is, the boyfriend out with the mixed emotions! You sound open-minded, this is just tough to wrap your head around, especially at first. You can still grapple with your feelings of jealousy without kicking Steve out or cutting off your wife's relationship with him. You will need a lot of support (here on this forum there is LOADS of it ) and dedication to making the best of it. It seems to me that there is some good stuff going on here, not all bad, it's just getting things into balance that you have to work on. Is it worth it? Only you can know that, for yourself.

As for me, I fantasize about moving my bf in, which will most likely NEVER, EVER happen, but still -- I can imagine our V in your situation and I wonder how we would handle it. I would not want to give up too soon, I guess is what I'm saying. But -- that is because mine is just a fantasy, not real life! Real life, where things get messy and volatile. And YES -- my husband would want a CHECK formation, rather than a V, too!

I don't know what went into the decision process of Steve moving in with you but I doubt you went into it lightly. Or -- maybe you did?

I feel bad for your hurt feelings. It is sad about the "boring" perception -- but there is nothing boring about being a good dad and being there for your child I agree with the others who have encouraged you to pursue some of your own interests again. I hope you can find some balance in your life. You don't sound like a bore, to me

 

[IndieSolo]

I've never seen anyone talk about a V as compared to a checkmark, as if the length of the "legs" in the V or checkmark represents the importance of the person at the hinge. You must be very visually-oriented.

I found this a very inventive and useful description for the way many people actually feel. They call their relationships Vs, but they're really check marks. At least SaS is honest about wanting this. (And you made a little mistake: the length of the "legs" in the V or checkmark represents the relative importance of the two arms to the person at the hinge.)

I wasn't criticizing, I was acknowledging him. I thought it was a very creative and visual way of looking at things. And yes, perhaps I should have said that the "length of the legs of the Vee or Checkmark represents the importance of the people involved to the person at the hinge." But if you're at the end of one of those legs, and not the hinge, what I said still works. Doesn't matter anyway, I think it was still clear. Out of whatever else I and everyone else said, I wouldn't have imagined that this statement of mine, which was really just an aside, even merited a comment. ???

 

[redpepper]

Get him out and get some space to fix your primary relationship. This was way too soon.

Really? that is all I had to say? heh. Kidding

Oh ya, the veto thing. It doesn't sound like she is going to go with "if its too much I will leave him" thing... I think you are holding on to lost hope there. You don't seem to have the best record for holding your ground... or even having ground to hold on. What makes you think that you will have a leg to stand on with that? Especially now that he lives with you!

 

[BlackUnicorn]

Hi there! Although I don't agree with everything you have to say, I do admire your courage to speak up about what's bugging you. I hope you are as openly communicative with your wife and Steve - that alone could help loads.

I agree with mostly everything Derby had to say, but just want to highlight a few more points.

So a few months ago she asked to sleep with a mutual friend. After a lot of talking about it I told her it was okay.

What exactly did you talk about? I read the list below and it didn't read as very realistic, sorry to say. Unless your wife and you, after long-term experience, could both honestly say that regular sex with someone you really like has NEVER brought up any romantic feelings whatsoever, I think you basically dug your own grave while getting into this and not at least mentally preparing for the possibility of long-term relationship. Your wife obviously didn't, either, but now it's happened, and you can't really turn back the clock with this one.

She and I were sleeping together daily, sometimes more often than that.

Your more active than average sex life with your wife, even with a child and many years together, was obviously a great source of pride and comfort for you. Were you afraid that if that changed, your marriage would somehow become less special, more ordinary in a way?

I went through a period of equating frequency of sex with the amount of caring in relationship. And in a way it is a good measure, if the ONLY caring that ever occurs does so in between the sheets.

Well, over that month our relationship takes a dive. She proceeds to tell me that she loves me but isn't "in love" with me. I've gotten boring. I'm angry. I'm depressed. I'm not passionate about anything.

The 'love but not in-love' part? NRE speaking. The rest is just her projecting her own feelings and anxieties on to you. I hate to always go for the 'blame the baby' -defense, but it reads as she might have some 'is a mother everything I am ever going to be anymore?' -anxiety. What she was effectively telling you was that she was feeling boring, she was angry, and she was depressed, mostly with herself. And NRE can be a lovely temporary alleviation for that, but it does little to solve the underlying issues behind the problem.

Mind you, I was in the military (happily) previously and she gave me the ultimatum, "her or the military" I gave up the military and a few other jobs I found interesting for her.

Which events lead up to the ultimatum? I perfectly understand why someone who is looking into having kids would not be thrilled with their spouse's military career. I agree with previous posters - look into quality day care providers in your area. Now that she has another relationship, she might be more equipped to deal with you having a time- and energy-consuming job as well.

She's mentioned the V relationship and that's unacceptable to me. A checkmark shape, sure, but not a V.

Hate to say this, but from her perspective, she effectively IS in a vee already. Chris-sakes, she has both of you living under the same roof! It doesn't get a lot more vee-ey than that.

As to the sex part, she and Steve have really agressive, acrobatic, wild sex. She and I have sex that's slower, with more grinding. She says that I'm a better lay and the only one that can get her off, but she has never been someone to let me have more wild, acrobatic sex because I'm a little more endowed and it hurts her. She's much more corrective of me during sex than him. So this all together makes it really hard to believe that I'm a better lay.

I take it that 'really aggressive, acrobatic, wild sex' equals 'good sex' for you, and you feel like she is less satisfied with what the two of you have, despite the fact that you have sex daily? First, the fact that all women prefer rough penetrative sex with as big as possible is a big fat lie. Most of us weren't equipped to take in some foot-long monstrosity. What I think many men who have smaller than average penises don't realize is that there really is a large market for them. And a lot of women prefer fingers due to the more subtle and precise stimulation anyways.

I have a monstrously proportioned boyfriend. And it requires so little work for me to feel him. Often, if he moves about a little too excitedly, it doesn't exactly hurt but feels like too much nevertheless. So we have a lot of pretty tantric sex. What I'm saying that with him being the way he is, acrobatics or roughness are not NECESSARY for it to feel like it should (which might also explain the getting-off-only-with-you part; many women have hard time coming if they are putting in a lot of effort to feel something in the first place). And also, the fact that she feels secure enough to tell you how she likes it is a HUGE compliment - many women, myself included, have a very high threshold to cross with that, and rather face the prospect of having less-than-satisfying sex than risk embarrassment with speaking up during the deed.

 

[StillaStudent]

Wow guys, I didn't expect to hear from so many of you. I really appreciate it and apologize that I cannot reply to every one of you individually.

I'd like to clear a few things up:

It's not possible at this point to have Steve move out. He's in a lease with us for about a year. I generally allowed him to move in because I was expecting the NRE to die down and for her to see her situation more accurately. I did this with the advice after talking to my wife and one of her friends (the only other person who knew about it) Everyone expected the NRE to die down. That's part of my concern. I'd figure that 4 months later it would have.

As for the sex, I don't have a problem with her sleeping with someone she has feelings for, rather it's the fact that I'm not clearly "her man". It's the checkmark vs. the V formation. I've never loved anyone other than my wife and child. Not my parents, not my friends, no one. I wish I had more love in my life, but I don't. I'm certainly open to it, it just hasn't happened. But I'm very happy for my wife loving as much as she does. I actually find it preferable that she sleeps with people she does have feelings for, just not when it becomes feelings that are so strong as to threaten our marriage. I forgot to add, one of the rules (which I don't suppose many here think will be a good idea) is that if she does do anything sexual with him she has to tell me.

As I see it, Steve doesn't deserve my wife. I recognize that isn't my call to make though. How she could even entertain the concept of putting us together as equals to her is insulting. It makes me wonder why I went through all I did to marry her if another guy can just waltz into our life and win her heart just as easy. It's also again extremely frustrating to know that he wouldn't have allowed her to be with anyone else if he were her husband, yet she can feel just as strongly for him.

We do have pretty open lines of communication, but Steve is left out completely. He is my friend, and if he knew this is causing any marital strife he'd stop sleeping with my wife. My wife claims her dissatisfaction with our relationship is unrelated to him (and to some degree she is right). But she does have something of an artificial relationship with him. He gets to be low drama because he doesn't have any expectations. Effectively, there's no talk of love or a relationship being being friends who have sex and he has no one sleeping with HIS wife. So he gets to stay fun while I get to be the guy who is being practically bi-polar with his emotions. I think this again puts me at a handicap.

My failures have been many here. She feels neglected. I haven't made much time for just us. I didn't feel the same way she did. I can be sitting down doing schoolwork and watching my wife cook in the kitchen and feel an intense love for her. She, on the other hand, needs to be doing things together. I have to correct this. She says she doesn't feel connected. I have to figure out how to reconnect. We've got no money to go out and do things or have our child watched since I'm raising a family on GI Bill. I watch our kid a lot to give her time for herself, but she says that just makes me a good dad, not someone she feels connected to.

All is not lost, she says she loves me more than Steve, just that she's "in love" with him and not me. This is emotional torture, especially with him under the same roof.

I recognize many of you think I should just worry about my relationship with her and not concern myself with her relationship with him, but it isn't that simple to me. The checkmark is non-negotiable. I'm not a monogomous guy (well in practice I am because most women bore me), but I am more so this way than her. It comes down to your home team. When the chips are down and you have one person in this world you can rely on, it's always one person. I just cannot grok the concept of feeling equal emotional attachment for two people. I mean, I would be fine if she loved or was "in love" and sleeping with 5 boyfriends, just so long as she believed and I believed that I was her man.

Again, I deeply appreciate all of your comments. You guys are actually helping out quite a bit here.

 

[BlackUnicorn]

I generally allowed him to move in because I was expecting the NRE to die down and for her to see her situation more accurately. I did this with the advice after talking to my wife and one of her friends (the only other person who knew about it) Everyone expected the NRE to die down. That's part of my concern. I'd figure that 4 months later it would have.

The scientific explanation for NRE or the reaction of being in-love I've read about is that it allows two people to get it on approximately as long as it takes for a healthy couple to conceive, so anything between 6 months to 2 years. So I would postpone all major life decisions, including moving-in together, till at least two years have gone past.

I forgot to add, one of the rules (which I don't suppose many here think will be a good idea) is that if she does do anything sexual with him she has to tell me.

That doesn't actually sound very outlandish/control-freaky to me. Depends of course on how much detail you want, but I think it's actually fairly common to let one partner know if there is going to be sexy times with the other.

We do have pretty open lines of communication, but Steve is left out completely. He is my friend, and if he knew this is causing any marital strife he'd stop sleeping with my wife.

I suspect this is a major point for improvement. He is living there - he is part of your life, and more over, a friend.

Do you do any friend stuff together with Steve? Do you have guy dates?

Show the two of them your posts, or an edited version thereof (telling Steve he doesn't deserve your wife point-blank might have to wait a little ). Steve deserves to get in the loop, and you need to respect he is an adult who can deal with his own relationship stuff and own up to his actions.

We've got no money to go out and do things or have our child watched since I'm raising a family on GI Bill. I watch our kid a lot to give her time for herself, but she says that just makes me a good dad, not someone she feels connected to.

Date nights at home? Like Steve taking the baby out for a walk, and the two of you cooking and watching a movie together? You need equal date time with her compared to what Steve is getting, and guy dates with Steve as well.

 

[SNeacail]

Check out the book, "The Five Love Languages" by Gary Chapman. It may help you both find that connection again. It's kinda like if you wife is allergic to roses, yet you always bring her roses to show her love knowing she is allergic, she's not going to feel the love. Your wife wants quality time with you, GIVE IT TO HER! Find stuff to do that doesn't require money. Go on picnics, go for a drive, go watch a sunset, play a board game in bed or something, just make the time.

"Quality Time" is one of my love languages and I fully understand where your wife if coming from. It is really hard to feel any connection with someone who doesn't seem to take the time to be with just you. It's very irritating and downright insulting when we are expecting quality time and our partner is spending "our" time doing other stuff (studying, internet surfing, texting, etc).