How can I be "less"?

mysteries

islandgy9 said:
M can simply let her conundrums go with a smile, it seems. Mine drive me nuts, but I usually figure them out and come to terms with them. This one has a good grip. You all are helping me see different options. Thank you.
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I can live with mysteries. In fact, most reveal themselves in time.
I have what has been called Oriental patience.
Acceptance of yourself is key to accepting others. Be as you are. You are beautiful "as is."
 
Thanks

AnotherConfused wrote:
Can you love Maya as a friend (with or without the extras) and seek someone else for your full-time partner?
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Thanks, AC. Your friend's story does seem like mine. I'm sorry for their pain, for I know exactly how it feels. I think I am able now to actualize that, even though Maya and I do share some deep significant connections, I can't expect her to want what I do. I think I'm finally able (at least tonight) to stop hoping for more. I don't know what is changing, but something is letting reality become... real. Thanks for helping with that.

Satisfaction wrote:
I was once in a relationship like you are, and I knew deep down that it was not what I really wanted. I think you know this too.
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I'm not so sure about that. I can live with differences and idiosyncracies. I actually enjoy them (to a point, of course). But the person I'm with must want to "live" with mine. I do hope to find someone who shares my relationship ideals. I'm very glad for you that you have found yours! That gives me hope! Thank you.

Nicothoe, thanks for your thoughts. I also feel lonely.

PickMoreDaisies wrote:
I would suggest that you carry on with Maya... take it for what it is, enjoy the time that you spend together and also leave yourself open to finding someone who can meet your needs for something live-in. I would agree that there is nothing wrong with wanting this. I just wouldn't want to give up on the great connection that you have with her to get it.
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I do care a great deal for her, and I hope she can always be in my life. I think it's finally sinking in and I am accepting of what is.

Thanks again, everyone.

Maya and I spoke tonight for the first time in a couple of weeks. She had a very eventful weekend with a very sick elderly dog, being helped by caring friends, one of which may be back in her life after leaving for similar issues as I am facing. And she went on a date with a new friend. She called to thank me for my offer to help. Who knows? This may just work out, differently than how I wanted, but okay.
 
IG, it does seem that the ideal you want to attain is fundamentally different than what she wants, and that neither of you is willing to change. This doesn't mean anyone is wrong, but it does mean there's core incompatibility. As such, your destination partner is not Maya.

That said, you detailed an array of relationships, or perhaps sport fucking, that you also participate in. Given that list, part of me wonders how much other free time you have. In any case, you seem to be somewhere in the grey space between being polyamorous and being a swinger. It seems more like swinging to me.

As such, first I would figure out whether you are polyamorous or a swinger. Then I'd work on finding someone who appreciates you, who also also shares your core image for your relationship. Maya can be a loved partner during this time, and may continue as such, but it doesn't seem like she'll ever fulfill the desire that is causing you disquiet.

Best of luck.
 
Awareness

Sagency wrote:
As such, first I would figure out whether you are polyamorous or a swinger. Then I'd work on finding someone who appreciates you, and also also shares your core image for your relationship. Maya can be a loved partner during this time and may continue as such, but it doesn't seem like she'd ever fulfill the desire that is causing you disquiet.
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"Sport fucking"... Hmm... From what I've picked up from this site, most folks here don't like the idea of sex simply for the sake of sex/physical pleasure, to the point of disdain. To each their own. Be and let be. As long as there is respect, mutual consent and no deceit I don't see anything wrong with "ethical slutism."

I also know some/most people can't imagine having sex without love/intimacy/relationship/trust. Personally, I prefer sex with the love/intimacy/trust, but very much enjoy having "relations" with a small variety of people.

Although I don't feel "dedicated" love for my couple friends, during our get-togethers we might watch a movie, sometimes have lunch or dinner, socialize. I've stayed the weekend once or twice at one of the couple's weekend island house. What doesn't seem necessary is to talk about feelings or intimate things. With my couple friends that's the difference, to me, anyway.

My whole dilemma is that I DO feel love/intimacy/trust with Maya on many levels, intellectually and emotionally, AND our physical relationship is... was... incredibly fantastic. Our relationship was not physically based, by far, and I want to make that clear, but for both of us it was important.

In an email recently, Maya said: "Have you considered coming out to the forum and saying you are bi? Revealing the whole of you is risky, but may be freeing. It was pointed out to me early on that I could never meet all of your needs, particularly sexually." Personally, I don't remember pointing out that she could never meet all of my needs.

I thought I'd implied some time ago that I was bisexual. I certainly am not hiding anything deliberately. The aspects of bisexuality I enjoy are exactly that, sexual-- enjoyable, but only a small part of my complete sexuality. Perhaps she can't meet all of my sexual needs, but she most certainly satisfied damn near every sexual desire I've ever had. Similarly, a guy can't completely satisfy a woman's every desire if she likes to be with other women sexually.

However, you did put things in very real perspective. Our concepts of ideal relationships are fundamentally different, and as you said: "As such, your destination partner is not Maya."

That was a very difficult and reluctant realization. You are gently helping to further confirm this. It has taken me a very long time. Thank you.
 
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islandgy9 said:
From what I've picked up from this site, most folks here don't like the idea of sex simply for the sake of sex/physical pleasure.
Maya said: " Have you considered coming out to the forum and saying you are bi? It was pointed out to me early on that I can NEVER meet all of your needs, particularly sexually..." I don't remember "pointing out" that she could "NEVER" meet all of my needs.
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For the first point, some do, some don't. The people who don't mind sex solely for pleasure without the context of a relationship (or a less 'deep' relationship) may not post as much, or they just don't address that part of their life here.

As for the second, there are a number of bi men running about here. I can't imagine why all parts of you would not be welcomed here. (I acknowledge that being a bi man is a whole different ball of wax than being a bi woman. I think in many ways it's harder.)

I'm not a bi man (lesbian-ish right now) but welcome!
 
Hi Opal,

I didn't mean to come across as judgmental as to pure polyamory/love vs. swinging or sport fucking (that last term sounded kind of derogatory to even me! :oops:). People like/want/need different things, that's all. It just seems to me that in some posts/threads "swinging" has been specifically pointed out, even isolated as, and identified as non-poly. The thought of recreational sex "seems" to bother some folks, maybe because to them it "lessens" what loving physical intimacy means to them. I understand that. I'm not arguing anything or defending myself, there is no conflict here. :)

As far as me being bisexual, it never played into the issues I am dealing with here, as far as I can tell, so I never thought to mention it. For the record, with my threesome couple friends, one more than the other, there is almost equal interaction between the three of us, but the "variety" of guy/guy interaction is limited, with mutual agreement as to preferences.

I don't know if all of that is too much info, but for some reason Maya thought it was important, I think. If not, than I feel a bit silly. But I have nothing to hide. It's just me.

I liked your term "lesbian-ish"! I know I'm definitely not homosexual-ish. I'm way more hetero than even bi-ish. The term I've used to describe myself is "bi to a degree." It kind of leaves the door open if further explanation is sought. Too many labels...
 
Let's be honest here, the vast majority of relationships start out with a large sexual component, which eventually gives way to love. There is no denying that sexual attraction, desire, lust are as much a part of a relationship as love and friendship, and therefore a part of polyamory.

To me, what defines me as a polyamorist as opposed to a swinger, is the potential for a loving relationship to sprout from a casual one. That said, I am not against having purely sexual relationships.
 
nicothoe said:
Let's be honest here, the vast majority of relationships start out with a large sexual component, which eventually gives way to love. There is no denying that sexual attraction, desire, lust are as much a part of a relationship as love and friendship, and therefore a part of polyamory.
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Something about my being 45 years of age, and having had so many ... shall we say, disappointments, has conspired to shift all of the weighting of this vs that around in my soul. Now, deeply intimate (emotionally, intellectually, biographically, psychologically, spiritually) friendship is about as sexy as it gets, as with resounding heart connection. And heart connection is even more important, and sensually gratifying, than crotch connection. I'm capable of tremendous energy in the heart area, and am looking forward to some heart-gasms.

I could not let physical attraction, divorced from the broad range of other things, lead the dance now. It is far from enough. It's gloriously good when it is there, also, but it needs to ride in the back seat now, for me.
 
Well, I didn't say it didn't happen. :) Speaking from my own experience, I fell in love with my girlfriend's roommate long before we started having a regular physical relationship (which was only recently).

My point was that you can be polyamorous and still enjoy casual sex, and that trying to categorize this aspect of me as a swinger, this part as non-monogamous, and the rest as poly doesn't always make sense.
 
"Sport fuckery!"

What a great, descriptive term "sport fuckery" is. I see nothing derogatory about it, and in fact, am adding it to my inner vocabulary of sexuality. Thank you, Sagency. When a swinger starts setting up appointments a couple hours apart, when swinging through (pardon unintentional pun) a region on a business trip, now THAT is well described as "sport fuckery."

I was invited to be a guest of this gentleman, but my first feeling was, "OMG! What the hell? How bizarre!" Now I have a descriptive term for the kind of situation which this individual relished. "To each their own. Live and let live. Thank you for considering me, but I will pass on your invitation at this time. Good luck in your search for companions!"

I want islandgy, and all I want is for them is to be all they can be and seek what fulfills them.

On a personal note, what amazes me about all posting here, is the recognition and respect shown, of the significance of the feelings and emotions of anyone posting here. Hallelujah!
 
islandgy9 said:
Maya said: "Have you considered coming out to the forum and saying you are bi? It was pointed out to me early on that I could never meet all of your needs, particularly sexually." I don't remember pointing out that she could never meet all of my needs.
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Interesting. I think the point of why she'd say that was kind of glossed over in the "bisexuality" discussion, but I get what she was going for. You want her to be "more" in your life, and she's saying, "How can I possibly be everything you want, anyway? I can't satisfy you fully because I don't have a penis," (for lack of more elegant phrasing :p ).

People have said this often and I don't quite get WHY. Realistically, who can give another person 100% of what they want? I may be attracted to girls with large breasts and large bums. If my girlfriend has small breasts and a large bum, that doesn't mean I'm unhappy or unsatisfied with her. I can still love feel total joy at the sexual relationship we have. It doesn't mean I'm still not into large breasts, but I don't need her to have them.

Also on that train, I often say that just because I am polyamorous doesn't mean I need to have multiple partners at all times. I can be perfectly happy with one partner -- what makes me polyamorous is knowing that I can have full, loving relationships with multiple partners. Same goes for bisexuality. It doesn't mean I have to be with males and females all the time. I can have a fully satisfying relationship with one person, but I know that I have the ability to be with either sex. That's that.

I dunno, not really much on the topic at hand. Just something I find comes up a surprising amount. People assume because you have a certain label, you have to live a certain way, or you'll never be happy. :confused:
 
islandgy9 said:
I didn't mean to come across as judgmental as to pure poly/love vs. swinging or sport fucking (that last term sounded kind of derogatory). People like/want/need different things, that's all. It just seems to me that in some posts/threads "swinging" has been specifically pointed out, even isolated as and identified as non-poly. The thought of recreational sex "seems" to bother some folks, maybe because to them it "lessens" what loving physical intimacy means to them. I understand that.
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What has been determined here, as far as I have seen anyway, is that poly-love and swinging can co-exist in a person. We are not all made up of one thing. Swinging is not poly, but you can be poly and enjoy swinging or sport sex. Just to clarify. :)
 
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What comes most naturally to IG, is being with others, couples, as he said recently. Most naturally. He has vowed to himself, and I applaud him for this, to live without denying this part of himself, which he needs. and which in previous lives, he has promised he would refrain from, which led to giving in, which led to deceit, which led to destruction.

He no longer wants deceit via omission or commission, in his life. Something else, which is a bold step and which i am proud of him for. In a sense, he is "standing up" for who he is, and how he wants his life and loves and caring relationships to be.

I am far more of a loner that IG. Some of my best times have been alone, out in the woods, or in my boat, hunting or fishing, alone (with dogs as company). I need that.

I suspected some women in family lore were polyamorous. And now, at 50, I understand, there are options to the monogamous Prince Charming on a white horse model who will save me from 100 percent of the pain of life and give me 100 percent of the joy and love and companionship and be everything I will ever need.

Thank goddess, when my young niece and her friends go out into the neighborhood woods to play princesses, they wear tiaras and sequined fairy wings, carry toy jeweled wands, and play pretend battle with monsters and demons and dark forces in the universe, coming back muddy, scratched by brush, but happy and fulfilled. That's my idea of a princess. Don't wait to be saved, learn how to save others, and while you're at it, you can save yourself with the help and battle tactics of your fellow princesses, and the princes on the white horses who DO happen into your life!
 
nicothoe said:
Let's be honest here, the vast majority of relationships start out with a large sexual component, which eventually gives way to love.
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For YOU.

There are many members here who prefer to start off their relationships as friendships and take it slowly, building up to love before having sex - because sex is not what they focus on. That's not how my relationships usually develop, but just because we're all poly here doesn't mean we're automatically cavalier and casual about sex, or that anyone should assume that every poly person is also open or swinging.
 
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friendship taken slowly

Meeting or knowing an individual, whether in person or at a distance, and intuiting something deeper can occur, is how I move forward with a relationship, however deep it may develop or with what amount of "connectivity."

For me, this works.

I have known IG for 17 years. When he lived a few houses away, I would hear the roar of his motorcycle, see his dark eyes and long dark ponytail, rangy build and kind ways, and try not to shatter my lower jaw on the road when he walked past shirtless.

He asked once if I thought of having a roommate. At the time I was porcupine-y and apt to throw quills at anyone who got too close.

He dropped HIS jaw, he remembers, when I said, "The only roommate I'll ever have will be tall, dark, handsome AND IN MY BED."

Years later... hah! There he was, or I was, and the deeper the connection became...
 
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