Bounderies crossed - advice sought

Lex

New member
My wife and I has had a healthy ethical poly relationship for 13 years. Filled with support, great communication, established boundaries, etc. Pride our love for each other and other all bases on ethical character.

Recently she fell in love with her new partner. Supported them and celebrated thrm.through thier journey. Set up poly calendar for balance, true compersion of thier love and journey and time together.

One of our mutual agreements between all of us is condom use between them until we all go and get comprehensive STI screenings together and transparency of results, like my wife and I did for one another and with others.

When her boyfriend got a vasectomy i regularly checked in to ask if things was about to change in safe sex habits or has. I was reassured no on both. Last night she broke down and confessed that she broke the bounderies and it's eating her up inside. That for the past 6 months they have been having sex without a condom and fluid bonding every since. She aknowledged she put me at risk and wants to earn my trust back and do what ever it takes. She also confessed her and her boyfriend kept checking in with each other, to see how they were each feeling about not telling me and continued for the whole 6 months until a STI scare this week when I had to sniff out the truth.

We set up poly therapist today. Understandably I'm deeply hurt, upset, and questioning why this level of deception would happen when we have such an open healthy supportive poly relationship.

Do you feel it's unreasonable to ask her what she would do, or how she would handle it if the tables were turned on such deception, lies, agreed established ethical bounderies being crossed?

As we repair this, is it unreasonable to ask them to take a pause on seeing one another as they both violated the agreements and willingly conspired in doing so?
 

TXretired

Active member
I see no issues with your requests. You are not the one that violated the agreement. A good sit down with all would be my first step.
 

Token2

Member
One of our mutual agreements between all of us is condom use between them until we all go and get comprehensive STI screenings together and transparency of results, like my wife and I did for one another and with others.
Did they not attempt to make the screen happen?

I definitely think it's ok to ask what she'd do if the tables were turned. Not sure asking them not to see each-other is ok.

I'd be really pushing to learn which one of them talked the other into it, and then asking them to look at the scenario if the tables were turned.
 

kdt26417

Official Greeter
Staff member
Hello Lex,

I do not feel that it's unreasonable to ask her what she would do, or how she would handle it if the tables were turned on such deception, lies, and agreed established ethical boundaries being crossed. She has hurt your feelings, injured your trust, and put you at risk. I would not blame you for being hurt, confused, and angry. And she should expect no less.

As you repair this, it is only fair for them to take a pause on seeing one another, as they both violated the agreements and willingly conspired in doing so. All of this pain and heartache could have been avoided if they just would have got tested, and let you know what was going on.

I'm sorry this has happened.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 

Inaniel

Well-known member
I don’t see the point in asking someone how they would feel if the tables were turned. Speculation about alternative realities can be entertaining conversation but really don’t have a lot of meaning in my opinion. Because the core of the conversation is a speculation. And what if she legitimately wouldn’t give a shit if you broke that agreement? That would serve to add confusion in communicating to her why it matters so much to you…

I would focus on the facts. Principally, if an STD is going around. Have you seen a doctor and do you need to begin safe sex practices with your wife immediately. Those aren’t questions, just something to think about.

They couldn’t keep the safe sex agreement, do you really trust them to keep a non-contact agreement? Forgive my skepticism but how could you possibly enforce that ethically? And how could you ever trust that she isn’t stopping by his place for an unprotected quickie?

IME it is hard to go back to using protection after you go there with someone, especially during NRE.

There is an underlying reason two people lied to you for six months. And one of those reasons may have something to do with you. Like your wife didn’t trust you enough to confess right after it happened the first time.

I went through this years ago, and it sucked. Now if I have unprotected sex with someone I tell my partners so they can choose to take precautions with me. Making agreements with a mind in the throes of NRE is like negotiating with an ape.
 
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GalaGirl

Well-known member
I'm sorry this happened. :(

We set up poly therapist today. Understandably I'm deeply hurt, upset, and questioning why this level of deception would happen when we have such an open healthy supportive poly relationship.

Glad you set this up. Hopefully it helps you all navigate this.

One of our mutual agreements between all of us is condom use between them until we all go and get comprehensive STI screenings together and transparency of results, like my wife and I did for one another and with others.

So... was that ever done? And how often was a panel redone?

Do you feel it's unreasonable to ask her what she would do, or how she would handle it if the tables were turned on such deception, lies, agreed established ethical bounderies being crossed?

I don't think "what iffing" stuff helps anything right now.

I mean, you could ask her. But she might decline to answer. Or she might share that she would choose to deal with it way different than you. And right now what matters is how YOU want to deal with people cheating on their safer sex agreements.

Because her answer doesn't change anything that happened already. You were knowingly kept in the dark for 6 mos. It's not like 6 hours or 6 days after a bareback encounter because she was having a hard time figuring out how to tell but the intention to tell was there. It also wasn't like "Oops, a condom broke. Dang. Now we have to tell people."

Here? It was deliberate bareback sex many times over 6 mos. And the intention was to not tell you anything even though you asked and checked in.

Which left you at extra risk because at some point? You chose to be fluid bonded with wife and have your body safety lie partly in her hands, rather than using protection so your body safety lies only in your hands. I am not trying to be mean or clinical about it when I say that. But... well, that's what happens.

If you and wife fluid bond with each other, then share sex with other people? Your body sex health hygiene partially lies in her hands and in how she handles her safer sex practices with others. And her sex health hygiene partially lies in yours and in how you handle your safer sex practices with others.

Either of you could lie about protection being used with other partners and pass germs along.

As we repair this, is it unreasonable to ask them to take a pause on seeing one another as they both violated the agreements and willingly conspired in doing so?

Why? What is the need? What is it supposed to demonstrate or solve for you? I mean, you could ask. But they could also say "No, thanks. Won't stop seeing each other." Then what?

If the need is taking a time out? Might be faster for you to say "I need a time out" and YOU don't see either one for a bit.

Could prioritize the "down on the ground" stuff you could do for your body and sex health hygiene. Go get your check up. And you could stop sharing sex with wife entirely or start using condoms/safer sex practices with wife during sex share until your new panel clears for any STI risk issues as a result of this breech.

Step 2? You may need to take some time to decide if you even want to return to being fluid bonded with her or not after this happening. Or if you just decide from this point on, it's "shields up" and condoms and other barrier methods in your sex practices. That part is mental health and emotional health more than body health -- where your willingness to return to fluid bonding with her lies and what is "acceptable risk" to you now.

I get being fluid bonded feels close and intimate, and yeah, you save some bucks on buying condoms and other BC methods you might employ in your safer sex practices. But if you two aren't trying to get pregnant... how needed IS it really to share body fluids?

And would you prefer your sex health hygiene return to being in your hands only? Would that put your mind more at ease if you continue with them in polyshipping?

And even if you don't decide to not poly with them any more? You still have to go get a check up screening. And you still have to think about these questions in your safer sex practices and what is acceptable risk or not for you.

So... I encourage you to do your thinking with counselor and figure out where you stand at this point in time.

Galagirl
 
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Magdlyn

Moderator
Staff member
I'm sorry your wife betrayed you for reasons unknown. I hope this gets cleared up soon.
 

dingedheart

Well-known member
My wife and I has had a healthy ethical poly relationship for 13 years. Filled with support, great communication, established boundaries, etc. Pride our love for each other and other all bases on ethical character.
Or so it seemed. In light of this situation are you sure of that ? Any pink flags now looking back ?
Last night she broke down and confessed that she broke the bounderies and it's eating her up inside. That for the past 6 months they have been having sex without a condom and fluid bonding every since. She aknowledged she put me at risk and wants to earn my trust back and do what ever it takes. She also confessed her and her boyfriend kept checking in with each other, to see how they were feeling about not telling me and continued for the whole 6 months until a STI scare this week when I had to sniff out the truth.
IMO this is the most disturbing/ creepy / insert your own adjective here ….to this situation. I’d love to have this explained to me. The guiltometer is it stronger the first week while everything is fresh or does it grow over time.
THEM discussing their feeling yet not discussing a plan to correct the situation?? WTF. AGAIN IMO that says a lot.

We set up poly therapist today. Understandably I'm deeply hurt, upset, and questioning why this level of deception would happen when we have such an open healthy supportive poly relationship.
please share if you find out something worth sharing.


Do you feel it's unreasonable to ask her what she would do, or how she would handle it if the tables were turned on such deception, lies, agreed established ethical bounderies being crossed?
NO I don’t think it’s unreasonable to ask her ANYTHING at this point but what good would the answer be ?

I think a better question in understanding this would be if she / they could quantify that “ extra good “ or extra fulfillment they got from going bareback clearly it outweighed any guilt or pain and your pain was that EVER FACTORED IN if caught ??

As we repair this, is it unreasonable to ask them to take a pause on seeing one another as they both violated the agreements and willingly conspired in doing so?
Whats your specific point for asking? Are you giving the children a time out to think about their behavior.
COULD you trust them to do that anyway?
 
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MeeraReed

Active member
Is there a kink dynamic between your wife and her boyfriend? I have seen that situation cause egregious lapses in judgment in previously ethical people before.

Not that that justifies it, but perhaps could be a contributing factor. Otherwise, your wife's behavior seems bizarre. Why didn't she just set up STI testing and tell you she'd like to stop using condoms with the boyfriend?

Why keep it a secret for SIX MONTHS? The fact that they were deliberately checking in with each other about keeping it secret from you...ugh, I'd be devastated.

However, I am skeptical about when couples are fluid bonded with each other but require condom use with other partners. It creates an immediate hierarchy, and also puts an unnecessary emotional significance on barrier-free sex over sex with barriers. My recommendation is for the primary couple to ALSO use condoms as a default. (My partner of ten years and I do, except for times with recent STI testing, no new partners, etc).

In general it seems like most people have a preference for not using condoms and they expect that a relationship will progress to a condom-free point. So I guess that's something for ethically non-monogamous people to keep in mind.

But you clearly DID keep that in mind, and you had a reasonable plan that would allow your wife & her boyfriend to stop using condoms after STI testing if they wanted to. You did everything right, and you sound like a loving and supportive poly partner. I am sorry this has happened to you.

I could understand if the heat of the moment caused a condom lapse, and if your normally ethical wife confessed it immediately, that would be very forgivable to me. But six months of deliberately keeping it from you? Such a betrayal of your trust.

Since you cite a long history of a good and trust-filled relationship with your wife, it's worth hearing her out to see what her explanation or excuse is. But she will have to re-earn your trust.
 
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