Brand new to Polyamory/CNM seeking support

[BrianCA]

Hello Everyone!

I’m Brian.

Me and my wife just decided to embark upon a very new chapter in our life and explore CNM and specifically Non-Hierarchical Polyamory. This is a very exciting and scary time and I’m looking for any support, constructive advice, friends at this crucial moment of beginning to venture into the green choppy waters of Polyamory.

Thanks!

 

[Magdlyn]

Welcome, Brian.

 

[Evie]

Hi Brian, it can be a little overwhelming starting out. I saw you've read Polysecure, solid start! There's heaps of other resources we suggest too, but if you have any specific questions, feel free to ask.

 

[Magdlyn]

Hi Brian, it can be a little overwhelming starting out. I saw you've read Polysecure, solid start! There's heaps of other resources we suggest too, but if you have any specific questions, feel free to ask.

Here's our list of most helpful resources-- books, articles and a podcast.

https://polyamory.com/threads/most-commonly-cited-advice-articles-master-thread.155304/

 

[ref2018]

Hello Everyone!

I’m Brian.

Me and my wife just decided to embark upon a very new chapter in our life and explore CNM and specifically Non-Hierarchical Polyamory. This is a very exciting and scary time and I’m looking for any support, constructive advice, friends at this crucial moment of beginning to venture into the green choppy waters of Polyamory.

Thanks!

Hello Brian!

Exactly what do you mean by "Non-Hierarchical Polyamory"? I see that you are married, so there is a built-in hierarchy already. Do you and your wife plan to get a legal divorce?

 

[Stephen.Pickle]

Hello Brian!

Exactly what do you mean by "Non-Hierarchical Polyamory"? I see that you are married, so there is a built-in hierarchy already. Do you and your wife plan to get a legal divorce?

I was going to ask similar. Is it that your other partnerships would not be hierarchical? Is it possible I wonder to be non hierarchical in your situation?

 

[Bobbi]

specifically Non-Hierarchical Polyamory

As others have noted, you are married, therefore hierarchical. I did a lot of reading when I started out too, and decided I too did not want hierarchy, but quickly learned that is impossible in a marriage, and even in many poly relationships, as well.

There's nothing wrong with hierarchy. The problem is people in hierarchical relationships saying (lying or pretending) that they don't do hierarchy.

What you need to be clear on is HOW and WHAT your hierarchy looks like.

I have a life partner that is the center of my love world. A new partner may or may not become as close to me as that, but the option is there to have a multiple-primary hierarchy. It will take a lot of time, so don't expect equal treatment in a year or two.

However, as I become close with partners, I do make commitments of time, being there in emergencies, and I ALWAYS make my own decisions regarding my relationships. NOBODY has power in a relationship they are not in, so there's no vetoes, and I have complete autonomy in my relationships. I may not be able to give everyone the time they want, but I spell it out and make it clear what I can and cannot give, so partners can have full consent or decide it's not the relationship for them.

For me, I don't see hierarchy as 1, 2, 3, where only one person can hold that top spot. I see it more like orbits, where anyone can become close enough to reach any orbit and can freely move from orbit to orbit. My top orbit currently consists of my life partner, my best friends (yes, I have more than one best friend), my father and my nesting partner. My second orbit is very close family and other partner. My third orbit is less close family, friends, newer partners or comet partners. My 4th orbit is new dates, friends/aquaintenences, distant family, colleagues, old schoolmates, etc., and the 5th tier is the general public.

That top tier is reserved for the best possible relationships. For me, romantic partners would have a hard time getting there... It's only happened twice in my life. Love is not enough to get to my top tier.

So, rethink how you want to express your hierarchy, own it, and make sure all partners understand it.

I've seen couples try so hard to not have hierarchy that they neglect and even harm their committed partner so as not to appear to give special treatment, and actually winding up giving that special treatment to new partners instead.

 

[kdt26417]

Greetings Brian,
Welcome to our forum. Please feel free to lurk, browse, etc.

I am happy to help in any way that I can. My initial advice is to do lots and lots of communication, get practice at communicating well. That and take your time exploring the various threads and boards on this site. There is so much to learn about polyamory. Let us know of each of your questions as they arise.

Sincerely,
Kevin T., "official greeter"

Notes:

There's a *lot* of good info in Golden Nuggets. Have a look!

Please read through the guidelines if you haven't already.

Note: You needn't read every reply to your posts, especially if someone posts in a disagreeable way. Given the size and scope of the site it's hard not to run into the occasional disagreeable person. Please contact the mods if you do (or if you see any spam), and you can block the person if you want.

If you have any questions about the board itself, please private-message a mod and they'll do their best to help.

Welcome aboard!

 

[Albert Ross]

For me, I don't see hierarchy as 1, 2, 3, where only one person can hold that top spot. I see it more like orbits, where anyone can become close enough to reach any orbit and can freely move from orbit to orbit. My top orbit currently consists of my life partner, my best friends (yes, I have more than one best friend), my father and my nesting partner. My second orbit is very close family and other partner. My third orbit is less close family, friends, newer partners or comet partners. My 4th orbit is new dates, friends/aquaintenences, distant family, colleagues, old schoolmates, etc., and the 5th tier is the general public.

That top tier is reserved for the best possible relationships. For me, romantic partners would have a hard time getting there... It's only happened twice in my life. Love is not enough to get to my top tier.

I like this model a lot.

 

[BrianCA]

Hello Brian!

Exactly what do you mean by "Non-Hierarchical Polyamory"? I see that you are married, so there is a built-in hierarchy already. Do you and your wife plan to get a legal divorce?

I was going to ask similar. Is it that your other partnerships would not be hierarchical? Is it possible I wonder to be non hierarchical in your situation?

 

[Bobbi]

In this case, you should tell others what your priorities are because whether you use the non hierarchical or not you have hierarchy and need to clarify how it would effect future partners.

 

[BrianCA]

Hello Brian!

Exactly what do you mean by "Non-Hierarchical Polyamory"? I see that you are married, so there is a built-in hierarchy already. Do you and your wife plan to get a legal divorce?

As others have noted, you are married, therefore hierarchical. I did a lot of reading when I started out too, and decided I too did not want hierarchy, but quickly learned that is impossible in a marriage, and even in many poly relationships, as well.

There's nothing wrong with hierarchy. The problem is people in hierarchical relationships saying (lying or pretending) that they don't do hierarchy.

What you need to be clear on is HOW and WHAT your hierarchy looks like.

I have a life partner that is the center of my love world. A new partner may or may not become as close to me as that, but the option is there to have a multiple-primary hierarchy. It will take a lot of time, so don't expect equal treatment in a year or two.

However, as I become close with partners, I do make commitments of time, being there in emergencies, and I ALWAYS make my own decisions regarding my relationships. NOBODY has power in a relationship they are not in, so there's no vetoes, and I have complete autonomy in my relationships. I may not be able to give everyone the time they want, but I spell it out and make it clear what I can and cannot give, so partners can have full consent or decide it's not the relationship for them.

For me, I don't see hierarchy as 1, 2, 3, where only one person can hold that top spot. I see it more like orbits, where anyone can become close enough to reach any orbit and can freely move from orbit to orbit. My top orbit currently consists of my life partner, my best friends (yes, I have more than one best friend), my father and my nesting partner. My second orbit is very close family and other partner. My third orbit is less close family, friends, newer partners or comet partners. My 4th orbit is new dates, friends/aquaintenences, distant family, colleagues, old schoolmates, etc., and the 5th tier is the general public.

That top tier is reserved for the best possible relationships. For me, romantic partners would have a hard time getting there... It's only happened twice in my life. Love is not enough to get to my top tier.

So, rethink how you want to express your hierarchy, own it, and make sure all partners understand it.

I've seen couples try so hard to not have hierarchy that they neglect and even harm their committed partner so as not to appear to give special treatment, and actually winding up giving that special treatment to new partners instead.

It’s funny, so many people have commented on my original post as if I gave all kinds of information about how I am being “non-hierarchical.” I realize I used that word but it seems like this specific topic is a hot button one for many people. I did not realize this but I can see how it would be. Honestly I just read Jessica Fern’s book, love the way she described “non-hierarchical polyamory” and put a special note at the end of her section on it, referring to people who live together and have kids, and added a little twist to it. That’s where that term came from. Her book. Me and my wife just started exploring the possibility of polyamory like 2 weeks ago and we’re not jumping into anything. We’re also not rigidly defining any form of how we want to do it. I obviously didn’t put necessary extra information after I dropped the term “non-hierarchical” because I only put it there because the specific way the Jessica Fern describes this specific form of non-hierarchy in which you already live with someone and have kids with them is a description of polyamory that resonated with me the most. That’s why I used that word. I suppose dropping jt the way I did made it sound like I was super assertive about practicing some very specific relational structure. This is not the case. There was a little confusion there I think, because I did not explain what I meant when I said that. It was just a quick introductory post that I made I really didn’t think so many people would see it and make comments about what I said or take it that seriously.

 

[BrianCA]

Hello Everyone!

I’m Brian.

Me and my wife just decided to embark upon a very new chapter in our life and explore CNM and specifically Non-Hierarchical Polyamory. This is a very exciting and scary time and I’m looking for any support, constructive advice, friends at this crucial moment of beginning to venture into the green choppy waters of Polyamory.

Thanks!

After so many comments to this. I will note, I got this term “non-hierarchical polyamory” specifically from Jessica Fern’s book “Polysecure” and I will clarify here that when I say “non-hierarchical” I mean it in the sense that she speaks about it in that book. So if anyone who sees this is a little confused about what I meant when I said that, I highly recommend reading that book before commenting. I highly recommend to literally anyone to read that book as it is a trove of pioneering psychology.

 

[Bobbi]

Just to clarify, we weren't harping on you at all. Please don't take it that way. When it comes to terms, particularly hierarchical in any form, there are so many opinions on it, and authors use their own definitions, so that's kind of the point we were making.

We are just trying to educate you that the term can put many off and limit your prospects, because SOME poly people see a married person claiming to be non-hierarchical and automatically dismiss them, because being married is innately hierarchical, even if you give everything you've got to being egalitarian. It comes off as inauthentic and even egotistical. The books and even podcasts stress how horrible hierarchy is and how you need to avoid it at all costs. But hierarchy isn't the problem, giving power over your relationship to a 3rd party is. Someone will always get more... privilege, time, money, travel, etc., no matter what you call it, because time with a partner is needed to create the bonds to extend more from your relationship. It's absurd to think a new partner is entitled to all of the perks your long-term partner or spouse has.

Marriage alone imparts a hierarchy that NOBODY else could ever obtain unless you got divorced and remarried. Your wife has legal rights nobody else can get.

Because you did explain you are new, we are trying to help you not make that mistake in the future. We want to help, and we want you to be successful in poly, if that's what you and your partner want.

 

[BrianCA]

Just to clarify...we aren't harping on you at all...please don't take it that way. When it comes to terms, particularly hierarchical in any form, there are so many opinions on it and authors use their own definitions so that's kind of the point we are making.

We are just trying to educate you that the term can put many off and limit your prospects because SOME poly people see a married person claiming non hierarchical and automatically dismiss them because being married is innately hierarchical, even if you give everything you've got to being egalitarian. It comes off as inauthentic and even egotistical. The books and even podcasts boast how horrible hierarchy is and how you need to avoid it at all costs, but hierarchy isn't the problem. Giving power over your relationship to a 3rd party is. Someone will always get more... privilege, time, money, travel, etc. no matter what you call it because time with a partner is needed to create the bonds to extend more from your relationship. It's absurd to think a new partner is entitled to all of the perks your long term partner or wife has.

Marriage alone imparts a hierarchy that NOBODY else could ever obtain unless you get divorced and remarried. Your wife has legal rights nobody else can get.

Because you did explain you are new, we are trying to help you not make that mistake in the future.

We want to help and we want you to be successful in poly if that's what you and your partner wants.

Just my opinion. It all seems a little unnecessary as a response to a simple introductory post. Frankly, it kind of is harping on me. That’s just the definition of harping. Everyone can have their opinions. My point here is I genuinely think a lot of the responses to my short introductory note were unnecessarily serious and came off a bit pedantic. The mods were very supportive and helpful and pointed me in the direction of other threads to help educate me and give me further support. That really is the most effective way to communicate to someone brand new. Just a tip. There are always more effective ways to communicate. I am always learning, and I would like to think for the most part, everyone else is too.