Can a monogamous marriage suffering an affair have a happy poly ending?

[cinderbell]

My story... The affair and where we are now

This is not to sway you one way or the other in making your decision, My reason for sharing this with you is to see a positive side maybe in the long run and hope that maybe it will speak to you in someway shape or form to help comfort you and allow yourself to come to a decision that is right for you and your family. My high school sweetheart who I was completely in love with and wanted to spend the rest of my life with dumped me and 8 months later I married my Husband who I had only know for 3 month and have been married to for 11 Years now. The first 7 years of our marriage he was in the Army. He did 2 tours in Iraq and spent sometime in Germany as well, so for at least half of our marriage we were not together. During his second deployment I had an affair. For years I regretted this terribly. He stuck by me and even stated that knowing I was sleeping with another man turned him on so we started having a open marriage. Then years later we moved to Germany and after being there for a few months he was going to be retired for medical reason. At the time my kids were 5 and 3 and my oldest was getting ready to start school so we didn't want her to start school in Germany and then during the year us move back to the states. So my daughters and I moved back to the states and that's when our marriage problems really began. It was as if he just didn't want anything to do with me, he was struggling with me and the girls being gone and couldn't deal with it. He started drink himself stupid and got to the point he was even really calling my or our kids. He had done 2 tours in Iraq what made this any different is what I thought back then. Looking back I know now that it was completely different, While in Iraq he had other soldier and his own back to watch 24/7 and for the most part kept his mind off things. We almost got a divorce when he finally came home but I like you didn't want my kids growing up in broken home. Our relationship suffered, I went into a horrible depression and just completely lost myself in internet gaming. I let my marriage go, my kids and I's relationship suffered but I was the one suffering the most and didn't even realize it. I was losing out on precious years with my kids,not getting anywhere in my marriage, I gained weight which made my depression worsen that much more and I had no happiness and no hope for my future. When you start to lose hope and thinking you are never going to be happy that's no way to live. The only thing getting me through any of it was the relationship I was having emotionally online (my husband was okay with this it was not behind his back). Then I somewhat start getting better, started taking care of myself, losing weight doing more with my kids and all around things were going smooth, even my marriage. But I still felt like I was lacking something in life. Over the next few years this were up and down. I met my now boyfriend who lives with us a few years ago online. We were good friends and lost touch for a while and then began talking again 7 months ago and it was like we never missed one day of the whole time we had been out of touch. He moved down to Florida with my husband and I 3 months ago and I couldn't be more happier then I am now. Since then My marriage has started to grow and I am starting to feel the way I did about him all those years ago when I feel in love with him. My Bf was in a horrible situation and in a deep depression just like I was a year ago. He is doing soooo much better now that he is here and is getting back up on his feet emotionally. And as for my husband (who has Ptsd btw) he is much happier, he doesn't feel as much of life's pressure as he use too. Some of the emotional weight has been lifted by having my bf around ( I am very emotionally needy). My Bf is also prior military so my husband needed another soldier around to talk military talk with, when we left the army it was like he lost a piece of himself and my Bf has help fill that void in his life. They have bonded more then I ever thought was possible. So yes I use to regret the affair I had and a part of me always will but there is an even bigger part of me who had to forgive myself that doesn't because if it weren't for it, I honestly don't know where we would be right now and the three of us wouldn't have each other. In our relationship the three us give something to each other that no one else up until this point has been able to give. I am not saying this works for everyone but it has for my little Poly family.

 

[Ordnacilacat]

The sounds like a good step. I'm curious, is this a poly-friendly one, do you know yet? Just because, if you are genuinely considering polyamory, having a counselor who isn't poly-friendly may make that more difficult.

Right now we are seeing a marriage therapist and individual therapists through a free program his work provides. Both (at least my own personal) therapist are aware of the consideration of polyamory but I do not think the marriage therapist we are seeing has ever dealt directly with a poly partnership. My therapist gave me a contact for another person who is in-network for our insurance that does specialize in poly. I am waiting to hear back from her for an appt, but each appt is $60 which will put a limit on how often we can see her. We can go to the free therapists as often as we like, which so far has been weekly. All of this awareness is only one month old, so everything is very new.

How do you feel about that? As in, does is resonate to you as something that YOU need? Books can give us suggestions, but I think that when books start to tell us things, definitive statements, we should think about them. Because we don't all need the same things to get better, to heal, to learn, to grow. What do YOU feel like you need to heal? You don't need to know the answer to that, btw. Sometimes it's a process of elimination - saying "no, I don't need this. I don't need that", before you can figure out what you need.

When this first all came out I was adamant that he needed to end his affair with the other woman, no if ands or buts. He felt he could not because of how strongly he felt he loved her. He felt trapped because he says he feels that he loves me just as strongly and giving up either feels too horrible. He claims that he knows he made things worse by lying and hiding. He thought he was informing himself by reading The Ethical Slut and being an eternal optimist he just thought everything would work out. (We have been making some headway with our talks to identify behaviors/habits/etc for both of us and one of his is acting impulsively). With him feeling this way and my feeling the other we were stuck at an emotional impasse and it was this point that I felt the most hopelessness and despair.

So I started considering what other avenues of healing did I have that still addressed the things that felt important to me: A. Renewing the emotional and intimate relationship I once had with my husband. B. Establishing security in the long term survival of my marriage.(housing, financials, child care, 401k/pension, etc) C. My whole family (yes insanely that even includes MIL) in directly raising my young daughter. The three of us provide more love and care than I could provide alone. Don't get me wrong, there are challenges and areas where this can improve, but my daughter's life is better with all three of us directly involved in it.

If the idea of giving all that up brings me the greatest pain, why can I not consider all options. As I had said in my earlier post, before my husband admitted to the affair we had been actively working on our relationship via the exercises we were getting from The Ethical Slut book and I was willing then to explore polyamory in gradual increments. I have known poly people in the past and some of that lifestyle did resonate with me and pique my interest.

Maybe as you said I am looking for permission to explore those feelings for myself? I'm trying to work hard on my self esteem issues so I can embrace that other people may be able to find me lovable and worth loving. I worry about the amount of work and time it needs to cultivate new relationships right now as my daughter does take up the greatest part of my time right now.

Do you feel like seriously considering being polyamorous is sort of "rewarding" your husband for bad behavior? So you can't find good things in polyamory for yourself, because of the circumstances in which it was brought up?

When I am feeling fear and anger yes I do consider that I am rewarding him in some way or "enabling" him. But I'm learning the feelings and thoughts I have when I am feeling fear and anger are always negative and do not serve to benefit my future, as an individual or as a couple. I don't want to let myself into that dark place.

I hope some of this helps. Polyamory can be wonderful - even when the way it is introduced into a person's life is awful & their initial gut reaction is NO NO NO (there are many stories here that start like that).

It does help and I appreciate your taking the time to make such a long and thoughtful response. I am going to reach out to this other woman to ask questions and try to get a better understanding of who she is as a person and not just demonize her. If any of this is to work out its not just my husband and I who need to work on improving our communication and establish what our futures will look like. I am trying to practical. This may not still work but the exploration can serve to help me heal into a more whole person. Right?

 

[Ordnacilacat]

Ordnacilacat, wow, this sounds really difficult.

There are many people here who give excellent advice and I know they'll be coming along soon, but I just wanted to offer my support. I hope you have great after-care with your midwife or OB/GYN, especially in regards to possible postpartum depression. It sounds like your self-esteem took a major hit, regardless of your husband's cheating affairs, and you are also under strain from the financial situation and living with your in-laws. That is a bundle of stress even aside from raising an infant and having relationship strife.

Take care of yourself. I'll be checking into the thread to see how you're doing.

I think I was dealing with depression prior to ever becoming pregnant when my husband and I failed to address our issues when we chose to move forward after his emotional affair. It was like a slowly filling damn that eventually just exploded. After I had my baby, he often asked if I felt depressed but in my own head I felt under-appreciated and overwhelmed. Maybe I was depressed, but I think mostly what I was feeling was un loved and I didn't know how to express it. What's funny is my husband also felt un-loved.

Now that this is all out in the open I am working hard to be a better person and that includes taking better care of myself and accepting that I am worthy of being loved. I need to be a strong and whole person because now I am a mom and I need to show my daughter what it means to be happy.

 

[Ordnacilacat]

The gentleman I mentioned in my previous post also no longer sees the woman he had his affair with. She is out of the picture completely. When he and his wife committed to repairing and healing their marriage, they had to wipe the slate clean and only want to get involved with ethically non-monogamous people.

Thank you for your response. They really felt there was no way to overcome the feelings that an affair develops in one partner while keeping the mistress around? this is a really hard topic for us because my husband and the woman both feel they are in love and admit that how they went about things was the absolute wrong way, but do they suffer forever because of the mistake? I try to imagine what it must feel like for her in this situation, assuming her intentions are sincere and the love is real. Its a scary place to be in because she too feels like she has no control and that she will be abandoned. What does that mean then for her and her feelings of love (again assuming they are not just lust, infatuation, etc)

 

[Magdlyn]

Thank you for your response. They really felt there was no way to overcome the feelings that an affair develops in one partner while keeping the mistress around? this is a really hard topic for us because my husband and the woman both feel they are in love and admit that how they went about things was the absolute wrong way, but do they suffer forever because of the mistake? I try to imagine what it must feel like for her in this situation, assuming her intentions are sincere and the love is real. Its a scary place to be in because she too feels like she has no control and that she will be abandoned. What does that mean then for her and her feelings of love (again assuming they are not just lust, infatuation, etc)

You are putting the feelings of this woman and your husband ahead of yours. You had a difficult pregnancy, major surgery, and difficulties breastfeeding that necessitated pumping around the clock to give the baby your life-giving milk.

Meanwhile your h swanned off to a music festival, lied about getting laid there, continued to lie and cheat and continue the affair, and couldn't even be buggered to be an attentive husband and father once the poor baby was cut out of you by surgical means!

He deserves to be rewarded for his HORRIBLE behavior why?

That said, if you forgive him and his mistress and continue in this so called marriage, what on earth reason does he have to treat you any better? You claim your daughter needs his care, and the care of his mother. Where has his care been so far? How is playing video games caring for a baby/toddler?

Oh will their widdle feewings be hurt if you request him breaking it off with her? Will your feelings be hurt if he continues to keep you in the barefoot and pregnant, good mama role while he gets his jollies, his sex, his romance, his carefree time, with his OW? Does it matter to you how unfair this all is? What do YOU deserve, what do YOU want for YOU?

How much of your limited funds go towards wining and dining the OW still, while you feel you can barely afford marriage counseling?

 

[IndieSolo]

I try to imagine what it must feel like for her in this situation, assuming her intentions are sincere and the love is real. Its a scary place to be in because she too feels like she has no control and that she will be abandoned. What does that mean then for her and her feelings of love (again assuming they are not just lust, infatuation, etc)

Really? Am I reading this right? You're worrying about someone who willingly engaged in a dishonest affair with your husband, who knowingly fucked and let herself get emotionally attached to someone whom she knew had to lie to and deceive you in order to be with her? You're afraid this dishonest, selfish woman will feel abandoned, when you have already been abandoned by your dishonest, selfish, and cowardly husband?

Hon, get your priorities straight. You owe her NOTHING.

Love is just a feeling. Loving someone means diddly-squat if they treat you like shit. I would not settle for the treatment you've been getting. You did nothing wrong - so stop beating yourself up for all the things you see as faults in yourself, all those things you think pushed your husband away. He was committed to being a partner to you and a father to your child. He intentionally failed at honoring his commitments. Why reward him by catering to his mistress?

WHO WILL CATER TO YOU? No one in this scenario - that is abundantly clear. You need to grow a backbone and start standing up for yourself.

 

[Inyourendo]

Thank you for your response. They really felt there was no way to overcome the feelings that an affair develops in one partner while keeping the mistress around? this is a really hard topic for us because my husband and the woman both feel they are in love and admit that how they went about things was the absolute wrong way, but do they suffer forever because of the mistake? I try to imagine what it must feel like for her in this situation, assuming her intentions are sincere and the love is real. Its a scary place to be in because she too feels like she has no control and that she will be abandoned. What does that mean then for her and her feelings of love (again assuming they are not just lust, infatuation, etc)

No need for them to both suffer, let her have him. He's a piece of crap liar and cheater, you deserve better. Let her be the one to share him with his mistress when he starts cheating on her, you don't need that.

 

[JaneQSmythe]

... No way to mend a relationship in that situation imo

It may be possible, but not common or easy.

Depending on your definitions, I had a cheating or "almost cheating" or something - thing/fling/affair with Dude. We recovered - but it took 3 months of Dark Times and NO CONTACT with Dude before MrS was able to let him back into our lives and another 3 months before Dude and I were actually in a "relationship". (I was willing to give it a FULL year and NEVER see Dude again to repair my relationship with MrS - luckily it didn't come to that!)

JaneQ

PS. The long version of my thing with Dude is in my "Journey" blog here - the "JACKASSERY" section...
PPS. That was four years ago.

 

[graviton]

You are putting the feelings of this woman and your husband ahead of yours. You had a difficult pregnancy, major surgery, and difficulties breastfeeding that necessitated pumping around the clock to give the baby your life-giving milk.

Meanwhile your h swanned off to a music festival, lied about getting laid there, continued to lie and cheat and continue the affair, and couldn't even be buggered to be an attentive husband and father once the poor baby was cut out of you by surgical means!

He deserves to be rewarded for his HORRIBLE behavior why?

That said, if you forgive him and his mistress and continue in this so called marriage, what on earth reason does he have to treat you any better? You claim your daughter needs his care, and the care of his mother. Where has his care been so far? How is playing video games caring for a baby/toddler?

Oh will their widdle feewings be hurt if you request him breaking it off with her? Will your feelings be hurt if he continues to keep you in the barefoot and pregnant, good mama role while he gets his jollies, his sex, his romance, his carefree time, with his OW? Does it matter to you how unfair this all is? What do YOU deserve, what do YOU want for YOU?

How much of your limited funds go towards wining and dining the OW still, while you feel you can barely afford marriage counseling?

Its not clear that she had any expectations of being told if he did have a hook up at the festival. In many situations where a hall pass is given its usually under the don't ask don't tell policy. Now I agree that him continuing the affair made this much more of a hurtful situation for everyone but I can also see that once the invitation is given by a spouse to go have a fling if they like, it becomes a slippery slope. The husband may think "well if I was allowed to do it then, why not now?". The lack of communication in such situations sets everyone up for failure and hurt feelings. Both are new to the notion of stepping outside the marriage, its an uncomfortable thing to discuss, the perception of don't ask don't tell leads to not just miscommunication but NO communication. Now as for the perception that she is " rewarding" him for his bad behavior if she learns to be empathetic and accept the other woman is easy to understand but has a couple major flaws.

1. It puts her in the parental/controlling role where she rewards and punishes his behavior instead of treating him as an equal human with faults and frailties.

2. I think we all agree that if she turned this whole thing around and accepted the other woman with compassion in her heart it would put her on the level of saints and show that she is truly a rare gem of a human being. Instead people seem to think that she should have wrath and perhaps vengefulness in her heart for what happened and as a result instead of "rewarding" him she should not accept the woman. In this situation if one choice is reward then the alternative could be viewed as "punishment". Thus living with an angry hurt wife is your rightful punishment. I don't think any spouse who wants their marriage to continue wants it to be viewed as "punishment" by the other spouse.

I think she may want to NOT frame this in her mind as rewarding bad behavior. If she wants him to change his relationship with the other woman in some manner, then she needs to ask for it with the understanding that it is for her to get some breathing room to help her make decisions based on logic and cool headedness, NOT emotions and hurt feelings.

There are a lot of women on this forum that take up pitchforks and torches every time one of these cheating/poly things happens when a woman is pregnant. It happens ALOT apparently, so much so that its predictable. Cheating OFTEN happens when one spouse feels detached or unappreciated by the other spouse. New baby's are a breeding ground for this behavior because of all the energy taken away from the couple and diverted to the baby. You know what else is JUST as predictable as a new father stepping out because mom doesn't feel sexual or is too into the new baby to notice her husband? The new mom stepping out after the pregnancy because hubby doesn't notice her or make her feel sexy anymore due to the stress of a new baby. None of this excuses cheating but my god it happens ALL the time and blame always lies in both party's when a relationship falters or fails. There is probably nothing more dangerous to a marriage than the introduction of a new baby. It would be nice if this stuff were commented on in a serious manner in some of those classes expecting couples tend to take.

 

[zigzag]

I can only comment from my own experience. We have moved from monogamy to polyamory, so far successfully. But this was after about 2 years discussion, research and reflexion first and previous unsuccessful attempts at other approaches. We feel we started this with what we considered a rock solid and honest relationship. However, the journey although extremely worthwhile for us has not been without trials and tribulations.

So in your position starting from a rocky relationship which has not been based on truth seems a mighty difficult if not impossible challenge to me. There is nothing like a polyamory to flush out issues in a relationship.

 

[Inyourendo]

There's never a valid excuse to cheat. Placing blame on a new mother is unacceptable, the blame lies solely on the cheater. Aren't happy in your marriage? work on your marriage or leave. Running into the arms of another woman because you're horny or lonely isn't the fault of the one being cheated on.

 

[GalaGirl]

When this first all came out I was adamant that he needed to end his affair with the other woman, no if ands or buts. He felt he could not because of how strongly he felt he loved her. He felt trapped because he says he feels that he loves me just as strongly and giving up either feels too horrible.

So basically he said "Nope. Not ending it."

Trim all the emotional drama stuff out of it. That's what is there. Now you get to make your next choice from there.

They really felt there was no way to overcome the feelings that an affair develops in one partner while keeping the mistress around? this is a really hard topic for us because my husband and the woman both feel they are in love and admit that how they went about things was the absolute wrong way, but do they suffer forever because of the mistake?

You are getting distracted with them blowing their emotional fog in there.

Your job is to decide if you want to stay or go: Which choice stinks less for YOU? You could focus on YOUR job.

That is fair. Each one tending their own job. Each one tending to their own emotional management. You cannot be the one left holding all the bags for all people. That is not healthy for you.

If staying with him for more of same treatment and more of you feeling like this....

• I think I was dealing with depression
• I felt under-appreciated and overwhelmed.
• I was feeling was un-loved

How that support your new mission of

• e
• I am working hard to be a better person and that includes taking better care of myself and accepting that I am worthy of being loved.
  
• I need to be a strong and whole person because now I am a mom and I need to show my daughter what it means to be happy.

or help move it forward?

How does choosing to stay in a situation that leaves you feeling so bad demonstrate you taking better care of you?

Galagirl

 

[Ordnacilacat]

My questions are in regard to your living arrangement - does your MIL know about this cheating affair? Is the plan that she will? If you decide to start dating, will this be a secret too? If you plan to stay in this living arrangement, it could all come out unexpectedly to her, so I think this is important to cover.

Yes, we have communicated the truth about what is going on with my MIL. As my husband and I are muddling through this process of trying to understand what we both want going forward and how to improve our communication we want to do so by being completely honest, and that means with my MIL who is part of our family unit. She needs to know what we are going through and what the future may hold. We also need to work at improving HOW we live together. I know now that I need to establish better boundaries of time spent together and make room for privacy. This lack of privacy really hurt my husband and I's relationship and my own ability to feel comfort with my sexuality in my own home.

Long term, do you see yourself cohabitating with the other woman? If you are trying to save money to move closer? How much has your husband been funneling off to go and visit her? Logistically, this seems kinda difficult to me, or it potentially could be, if the answers are a certain way.

At this point in time I do not see myself wishing to live with this woman right now and neither my husband nor she have expressed an interest in that living situation. Right now we are all working on what we think we each need to move forward so it is all very new and no concrete boundaries have been made. That said, we are discussing what those boundaries might be and they include what the future holds as far as how the relationships potentially advance, finances, the children involved. etc. My husband and I both agree that it is our intention of moving forward honestly which will mean we need to make and follow budgets that will impact a long distance relationship. I do not plan on using money as a controlling agent in keeping them apart, but I will also not sacrifice resources either. The idea is to move forward in a way that is fair.

Your husband needs to focus on healing this huge breach of trust with you, if possible. I would focus on what you need from him and others to make yourself ok with you before agreeing to any poly situation. Because poly is honest, poly is ethical and you're not there yet.

That is the idea. I am moving past the extreme fear response that occurred at this discovery and I'm trying to educate myself as well as work on bettering myself. This means identifying what I need and what I wasn't getting. My husband knows that his actions were wrong and he is trying to work with me in this process.

There are no guarantees for anyone at this point but I think he is willing to work on making amends for his actions. We are actively working everyday at improved honesty and self awareness for each of us. I've identified that to move forward I need to do so from a place of compassion because it feels that most healing for me.

By doing so I am not making concessions to my husband or his lover. Trying to understand them doesn't forgive their choices/actions and it doesn't promise that I become involved with them in the future. But if there's to be any hope of a future I need to explore this and I need to learn who this other person actually is. She expresses a desire to work towards making things work and repair the damage that has been done. Hopefully as I get to know her these sentiments will prove true. They may not. I can't control that anymore than I can control my husband.

I do not plan to make any rash decisions. I will continue to go to private and joint therapy and continue to self educate through reading and online resources like this. I appreciate your time and responses and I plan on reading that book as well.

 

[Ordnacilacat]

Thank you Galagirl for your replay and the link.

As I am moving forward in this whole process I know that I was not being as honest with myself about my own wants and needs as I should have been and I am going to work on improving that. I am seeing a private therapist and will discuss the depression extensively at our next appointment. I can see now that I was depressed, which is not making allowances fro my husbands choices or actions. He is an adult and those are his, not mine.

I need to work on myself as the first priority, which is what I am trying to do. But I also love my husband and want to also work on how we will move forward together, if that is possible. I believe he is honest in his remorse for his actions and he is actively trying to work on his relationship with me, our marriage and himself.

This doesn't promise anyone anything, not me, him, or this other woman. But its a starting point.

 

[Ordnacilacat]

Cinderbell thank you for sharing your experience with me. It is nice to see a scenario where there was some hope that emerged from great difficulty. My husband has made some serious mistakes but he is more than just those mistakes and I hope that we can make things work between us. Regardless we need to improve our communications and ourselves as individuals because we are parents to a small child no matter what the outcome.

 

[Joanne]

Such a tough spot! I'm glad he is committed to working with you. I'm just starting out here and my partner is interested in someone else, but if he was already involved before I say it is okay, then it is just cheating. I don't know if I could get past the betrayal. Good luck to you!

 

[kdt26417]

Hi Ordnacilacat,

Re (from OP):

"I've also started doing my own research in polyamory and I know that its entire foundation is built on being open, honest, actively communicating throughout the process so that everyone has safety and security in where they stand. We don't even have that. Is it even possible now? with this other women who betrayed and lied to me just as much as my husband?"

I wouldn't give up all hope in that area just yet.

Re:

"I understand and appreciate the advantages a polyamorous relationship can give to a person. It can be a beautiful gift of love, reaffirmation, inspiration, and excitement for life itself. Could it be something I find too?"

Possibly. What would you like to find? or what do you think you could find?

Re:

"I am not sure I am at a stage in my own life where I want to actively pursue new love interests. How does that even work in a poly situation?"

Local poly groups ... OKCupid. Mostly it's about putting yourself out there and being open to poly possibilities.

Re:

"How and where do I regain my security and trust in the primary relationship?"

Only your husband can supply that. And he has to do so a little at a time, proving by his actions that he can be trusted.

Re:

"Since we are married how do I protect myself and my daughter financially over the long term? Has anyone here experienced an open marriage? Were any legal documents drawn up to create some protections?"

Not per se, but honestly if I were you, I would get a consultation with a lawyer and find out what your options are, and get legal advice.

Re:

"How can you start a polyamorous relationship when your primary one is damaged?"

It's not easy, but sometimes it can be done.

Re:

"Will you always be doomed to repeat the same mistakes and failures over and over again?"

Not necessarily. But you'll have to make a decision about whether you'll trust your husband to give it a try. Completely up to you, and any reasonable person would understand if you felt that you just couldn't trust your husband anymore. Your trust is a gift, and you're not obligated to give it if you don't want to.

Re (from Post #22):

"I am going to reach out to this other woman to ask questions and try to get a better understanding of who she is as a person and not just demonize her."

I consider that wise and noble on your part.

Re (from Post #33):

"I've identified that to move forward I need to do so from a place of compassion because it feels the most healing for me."

I agree.

 

[graviton]

One thing you can do to heal the pain and animosity towards this other woman is to let go of the notion that she betrayed you and lied to you. She had no relationship with you and as a result there were no expectations or feelings of loyalty between the two of you. The minute you become a real person with real feelings and a desire to communicate with her is when those walls can start to fall down.

 

[kdt26417]

Good point ...

 

[GalaGirl]

Did he make the other woman aware he was a married man in a Closed marriage and she agreed to be his cheating partner from the start?

Or did he lie to her and present himself as single or Open?

I see he did lies of omission with you. I am not clear if he also lied to her. Could you be willing to clarify that with him?

Maybe that helps you in your process as you try to figure out if you still want to invest here with these people or not.

Galagirl