Can I set limits about my partner sharing with me their negative feelings/emotions toward other people?

[bibic93]

Preface: I will write this post in a gender-neutral way but you can use any pronoun when referring to me and/or my partner.

The short answer is "Of course, you can set whatever limit you want, as long as you discuss it with them," but I am not satisfied with this, because I want to have a more in-depth discussion about this issue.

My partner and I have been navigating ENM since 7 years, and embarked on the polyamory adventure since 2020. On my side, I only have sexual relationships with no feelings involved, as I am a very rational person. In terms of sharing, my partner asked me not to share anything with them. My partner, on the other hand, is interested in having secondary sentimental relationships with other people. I am totally fine with this balance, as I believe it fits our respective needs and I find our differences enriching for both.

The first relationship my partner had was, unfortunately, very toxic and ended up with quite a bit of drama on their side. The biggest problem I faced was dealing with the idea that somebody else was making my partner suffer and I couldn't really do anything about it. At the beginning, I asked my partner to tell me anything they felt like sharing. This changed when I realized that I didn't want and I couldn't handle their drama. Some months later, my partner managed to get out of this toxic relationship, but this came with a lot of suffering on their side. I stood by my partner's side trying to console, and I think this broke something in me.

After a couple of years of them not engaging in sentimental relationships, my partner started dating other people (with my consent). Compared to last time, I changed the agreement and I established a "don't ask don't tell" rule, except in situations where my partner needs help, or in situations that would interfere with our relationship. We are navigating this new agreement as we go. On two occasions, my partner shared with me that they were sad, either because their relationship was potentially about to end, or because they missed their secondary partner after a breakup.

On both occasions, my mind immediately panicked. I concluded that I could not handle them sharing such negative emotions without me being able to do anything about it apart from consoling. In my mind there is a voice saying, "If they are just sad or missing their other partner, they should deal with this independently and I should not be involved because, eventually, what can I do for them?" My partner, of course, accepts this, and we are openly talking about it with lots of respect and understanding from both sides.

In my ideal world, I would love to be able to be fully transparent and give my partner every kind of support. However, I think both of us are not there yet. On my side, I am not very good at consoling people without proactively being able to help to solve their situation. Plus, I think I am still burnt from my partner's inability to manage their emotions in the first poly relationship they had. On their side, my partner committed to working on understanding how to manage big feelings through psychological help, but this has not happened yet (even though it will happen soon), and they still need some work to gain emotional independence in managing all this.

My questions are:
- Deep down I feel bad telling them "Deal with your big feelings on your own," but I also think my new rule is legitimate and needed in order to protect me. Is "don't ask don't tell rule (with exceptions)" constructive in a poly relationship or would it be better to be fully transparent?
- How do you navigate negative feelings in poly relationships? I have only read about "managing jealousy." I have never found anything on "navigating my partner's negative feelings."

I would love to hear your stories! Thanks, everyone, for the help!!!

 

[Evie]

Hi and welcome, that sounds like a lot for you.

Have you sought psychological help yourself around these issues? You mentioned that you panic when you hear something but can't fix it. Panic must be so overwhelming for you and I understand why you want to avoid it. But have you considered learning how to quell this reaction? Do you understand that it's possible to be supportive in other ways and that these are just as valuable as "fixing"?

It is very possible to learn how to manage your feelings, although it takes practice. This way, you can overcome that panic. Cognitive behavioural therapy might be particularly effective for that.

Regardless of polyamory, your partner is going to experience loss and the subsequent sadness that goes with it. You can't fix a friend dying. Or a parent. Or god forbid, a child. So perhaps these smaller griefs of a break up can be your training ground for being a supportive partner to a grieving person without anything at all to fix.

 

[bibic93]

Hi and welcome, that sounds like a lot for you.

Have you sought psychological help yourself around these issues? You mentioned that you panic when you hear something but can't fix it. Panic must be so overwhelming for you and I understand why you want to avoid it. But have you considered learning how to quell this reaction? Do you understand that it's possible to be supportive in other ways and that these are just as valuable as "fixing"?

It is very possible to learn how to manage your feelings, although it takes practice. This way, you can overcome that panic. Cognitive behavioural therapy might be particularly effective for that.

Regardless of polyamory, your partner is going to experience loss and the subsequent sadness that goes with it. You can't fix a friend dying. Or a parent. Or god forbid, a child. So perhaps these smaller griefs of a break up can be your training ground for being a supportive partner to a grieving person without anything at all to fix.

Hi Evie,

Thanks very much for the reply! Yes, I have psychological support on my side since 2020 already, and that helps a lot "unpacking" the "panic" that sometimes creates in my head. And it allowed me to manage the first traumatic poly relationship my partner had. I know where it comes from and I am fully aware that I can be helpful also not "fixing" the situation. However, my mind can't help but think that I am not the right person to console my partner, because they miss the other person, especially because I have such a rational approach to emotions and feelings.

Do you think that I should be involved in their loss and subsequent sadness every time it occurs, or is it fair to say, for the more "light" situations, "Manage it on your own; I don't want to be involved"? Then, if there is something more serious, I am happy to offer support! Of course, this could be a temporary solution and, as I said, my ultimate goal is to be more transparent and also be able to deal with these kinds of emotions, but I really feel I can't now. Feel free to be super blunt with the answer!

 

[SEASONEDpolyAgain]

I am not very good at consoling people without proactively being able to help to solve their situation.

This is something I'd want to work on.

 

[Kynde]

Hi and welcome, that sounds like a lot for you.

Have you sought psychological help yourself around these issues? You mentioned that you panic when you hear something but can't fix it. Panic must be so overwhelming for you and I understand why you want to avoid it. But have you considered learning how to quell this reaction? Do you understand that it's possible to be supportive in other ways and that these are just as valuable as "fixing"?

It is very possible to learn how to manage your feelings, although it takes practice. This way, you can overcome that panic. Cognitive behavioural therapy might be particularly effective for that.

Regardless of polyamory, your partner is going to experience loss and the subsequent sadness that goes with it. You can't fix a friend dying. Or a parent. Or god forbid, a child. So perhaps these smaller griefs of a break up can be your training ground for being a supportive partner to a grieving person without anything at all to fix.

I always love your answers!

 

[Kynde]

I love that you are so self aware and have set boundaries for yourself so you don't get triggered. I agree with Evie above that maybe work on supporting loved ones through generalized grief processes. Would it be different if your partner had a loved one get ill or pass away? Would you be able to listen and support them through it, but not their problems with partners? Or is this a generalized reaction?

I have a general request of my partners and they have it with me. We don't share disagreements or issues about other partners-- the details-- but I do share that I am sad or upset today because of a relationship issue. That way they can understand why I might be "off" that day. I do expect a hug or "I care about you" or "I'm sorry you are going through that." I don't expect them to listen to the details or support me through it.

The first steps of personal growth start with awareness and being willing to grow. I think you are doing great

 

[bibic93]

Thanks everybody for the replies

This is something I'd want to work on.

Yes, definitely. I am totally aware of this, and actually have improved a lot compared to the past, especially on things outside poly problems. I struggle a lot with my inability to be helpful in those situations, because I would love to be able to handle everything and be strong and give him support. But this time I feel I just can't, at least not now.

I love that you are so self aware and have set boundaries for yourself so you don't get triggered. I agree with Evie above that maybe work on supporting loved ones through generalized grief processes. Would it be different if your partner had a loved one get ill or pass away? Would you be able to listen and support them through it, but not their problems with partners? Or is this a generalized reaction?

I have a general request of my partners and they have it with me. We don't share disagreements or issues about other partners-- the details-- but I do share that I am sad or upset today because of a relationship issue. That way they can understand why I might be "off" that day. I do expect a hug or "I care about you" or "I'm sorry you are going through that." I don't expect them to listen to the details or support me through it.

The first steps of personal growth start with awareness and being willing to grow. I think you are doing great

Thanks for sharing your experience. I really value it because I don't have any other example of these dynamics in my life.

On other occasions, like loss of a loved one or something similar, I try to be as empathetic and compassionate as possible with my partner and with friends. I must say, though, that I have learnt how to be this way after unlearning generational behaviours that was telling me to be "strong" and "just move on" from negative feelings I had in my childhood.

Now I feel these triggers come back bigger than ever in a poly framework, and I simply can't manage them yet, because it triggers me way more than other situations.

Actually, the "I'm sorry you are going through that" was my first reply (after 20 minutes of grounding) when he told me, "I am sad because I can't see her anymore," exactly because I know what I "should" do. The problem is that I feel it's too much at the moment for me to handle, because any time I think I have to give such "generalized grief process" I feel like having to put on a mask and just fake who I am and build up frustration inside me.

But then my question to you all is: do you think the "don't ask don't tell" rule is counterproductive, or do you think it's still a valid method to manage transition to navigate things that need additional psychological work?

 

[kdt26417]

Hello bibic93,

You can set any limits you need to, your personal boundaries are your own. When your partner shares with you a problem, your first thought is to fix it. From your partner's viewpoint, they just want you to listen, sympathize, and understand. This may or may not fit your way of doing things.

There are no rules in poly about how much info you and your partner share with each other, you really have to be your own judge about what information you can and can't process. I don't think you can deal with your partner's upset emotions, and in that sense, you should have a "DADT."

Don't feel bad, you are doing nothing wrong.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[SEASONEDpolyAgain]

do you think the "don't ask don't tell" rule is counterproductive or do you think it's still a valid method to manage transition to navigate things that need additional psychological work?

It depends on your partner. Some people need to feel that they can openly vent about other relationships and any restriction on that is too much of a restriction. Others won't mind so much and it won't create that barrier between you both.

It's a perfectly valid solution when it works for both parties.

 

[Magdlyn]

Yes, definitely. I am totally aware of this, and actually have improved a lot compared to the past, especially on things outside poly problems. I struggle a lot with my inability to be helpful in those situations, because I would love to be able to handle everything and be strong and give him support. But this time I feel I just can't, at least not now.

Thanks for sharing your experience. I really value it because I don't have any other example of these dynamics in my life.

On other occasions, like loss of a loved one or something similar, I try to be as empathetic and compassionate as possible with my partner and with friends. I must say, though, that I have learnt how to be this way after unlearning generational behaviours that was telling me to be "strong" and "just move on" from negative feelings I had in my childhood.

Now I feel these triggers come back bigger than ever in a poly framework, and I simply can't manage them yet, because it triggers me way more than other situations.

Actually, the "I'm sorry you are going through that" was my first reply (after 20 minutes of grounding) when he told me, "I am sad because I can't see her anymore," exactly because I know what I "should" do. The problem is that I feel it's too much at the moment for me to handle, because any time I think I have to give such "generalized grief process" I feel like having to put on a mask and just fake who I am and build up frustration inside me.

But then my question to you all is: do you think the "don't ask don't tell" rule is counterproductive, or do you think it's still a valid method to manage transition to navigate things that need additional psychological work?

Don't ask don't tell means something more in ENM than just a request to not share details of a grief over missing a partner after a breakup. DADT means you don't even want to know your metamour's names, or if your partner is going out to see one of their other partners. In strict DADT, your partner just goes out, and you don't know if they are seeing a platonic friend, a lover, or just going out by themselves.

DADT doesn't really work in polyamory because it can be so distancing. It's like your partner is leading a whole other secret life that you know nothing about. DADT is like the extreme one end of a spectrum of not sharing information.

What we usually need to handle is knowing quite a bit about our metamours, while still protecting the privacy of each dyad. You might not want your male partner's other partner to know you're on your period and cranky, or have an ill child, or whatever life issue you don't want broadcast to an uninvolved person who isn't actually your friend. Many dyads don't want to share sexual details, or life traumas of one partner with another. Etc., etc.

The same goes for "helping" a partner when something goes wrong with another partner of theirs. Whether it's a serious problem in their relationship, or an actual breakup, you all need to decide what you consent to be shared with the metamour(s). As a general rule, it's good to be "discreet." Maybe share those kinds of issues with a counselor, or a platonic friend, not with another romantic/sexual partner. Just share a general outline of what went wrong and how you're feeling, but don't unload every detail.

 

[Bobbi]

is it fair to say, for the more "light" situations, "Manage it on your own; I don't want to be involved"?

That would be a hurtful thing to hear when a person is grieving. There are ways to support but not go all in.

Actually, the "I'm sorry you are going through that" was my first reply (after 20 minutes of grounding) when he told me, "I am sad because I can't see her anymore," exactly because I know what I "should" do. The problem is that I feel it's too much at the moment for me to handle,

In this specific scenario is it BECAUSE he said, specifically, he can't see her any more?

Does this statement make you feel some kind of way? Do you have to get over your feelings first before being able to support him? Is it THIS specific work that you want to avoid?

Maybe it's time for partner to limit how much he shares when needing support. It's also VERY important in poly to have several avenues for support. In a breakup he might come to you, his partner, for hugs, cuddles and loving words that affirm your love and commitment and your care that he's going through something tough, but then he sees other friends to vent and get support that's not appropriate for you to give.

But then my question to you all is: do you think the "don't ask don't tell" rule is counterproductive, or do you think it's still a valid method to manage transition to navigate things that need additional psychological work?

I think DADT is harmful to the relationship, no matter how it's used, but using it against emotional needs sounds almost abusive. If a partner told me they never wanted to hear about or support my emotional needs, that would be a relationship ender.

You should do more soul searching to find out what exactly is difficult and find ways to mitigate that.

I'm a fixer. I will be the first person to give advice rather than just sitting with them being present. I want to help them fix the problem and make it better. My partner and I have instituted stating the need before making the request.

(We now use the Triforce of Communication from Multiamory podcast 83. I highly recommend a listen.)

He tells me when he doesn't want feedback or problem solving, just an ear for support, and I focus (with every fiber of my being) on giving him just that, and letting go of my need to problem-solve. I'm a work in progress and it goes against my personality, but the hard things to do are always the skills that are most rewarding to achieve.

There's no reason why you can't do both, support him and work on yourself at the same time. You just need to get to the bottom of what is really causing YOUR issues and eliminate or reduce that significantly.

Is it because your last meta was toxic, and partner stayed too long, so now you've lost respect for partner and a part of you thinks he should "reap what he sows"?

Is it because you feel like his poor decisions shouldn't put you out or require you to save him?

Disdainful thoughts about a partner are harmful to both you and your partner. If it's getting this bad, please see a therapist. You'll need master skills to get past this and learn how to support your partner in the future. Without learning and mastering these skills your relationship will have little chance to flourish.

 

[GalaGirl]

I don't know if this will help you, but these stuck out to me.

The short answer is, "Of course, you can set whatever limit you want, as long as you discuss it with them."

You actually do not HAVE to discuss with them. You COULD.

But if you set a personal boundary for yourself, it's for YOU to obey and uphold. They don't have to know, agree, or like it, YOU do.

I can decide I want no animals in my house. It's a personal boundary. I don't have to discuss it with anyone. I just decide this is how I want to deal with my allergies. Just zero pets. It's MY house. People can't just bring their pets here. Nope.

If you want a shared agreement, then you do have to discuss with the person(s) and arrive at the shared agreement. But a personal boundary is an agreement you make with just yourself. It doesn't have to involve anyone and doesn't need discussion. You just decide.

The first relationship my partner had was, unfortunately, very toxic and ended up with quite a bit of drama on their side. The biggest problem I faced was dealing with the idea that somebody else was making my partner suffer and I couldn't really do anything about it. At the beginning, I asked my partner to tell me anything they felt like sharing. This changed when I realized that I didn't want and I couldn't handle their drama. Some months later, my partner managed to get out of this toxic relationship, but this came with a lot of suffering on their side. I stood by my partner's side trying to console, and I think this broke something in me.

The parts in bold may need unpacking.

• What were the "drama" behaviors? Who was doing them?
• What BEHAVIORS did the ex do? How did partner react or respond to them? What could they do different?
• What BEHAVIORS did your partner do? What could they do different?
• What BEHAVIORS did you do? What could you do different?

Did you heal whatever "broke?"

https://rhntc.org/sites/default/files/resources/rhntc_hlthy_rlshp_wheel_spectrum_10-13-2022.pdf

Do both you and partner understand what makes a healthy relationship? Can you recognize abuse? What is the plan should either of you date a person who turns out to be abusive? Do you agree on what to do and what/how much support to expect from each other?

A long time ago, DH told me he is not the "clean-up man." I can expect a hug and kind words, or even a ride to the therapist. But HE is not the therapist and he's not going to help "clean up" weird if I choose to take up with weird people. I agree with him. I'm not the "clean-up woman" either.

If a partner keeps chasing weird people and picking poor company, that's their doing, and if I don't like it, I don't have to keep picking THEM for MY company.

You might decide you are not the "clean-up" person, and set better personal boundaries with yourself and with your partner.

I changed the agreement and established a "don't ask don't tell" rule, except in situations where my partner needs help, or in situations that would interfere with our relationship.

But does DADT actually solve anything? Or does it leave you feeling "in the dark" and kind of waiting "for the other shoe to drop?" Could DADT work out if you made a list of examples and non-examples?

• Things like THIS -- tell me about it.
• Things like THAT -- do not tell me about it.
• Area of discernment -- a thing that doesn't fall into the lists well and needs to be examined on its own.

This seems to be about being able to trust your partner's judgement and how they carry themselves so they aren't running to whoosh at you-- or at least partly about that. You cannot be the free therapist. And you might not enjoy your relationship with them if it winds up being (you sitting around listening to hinge go on and on about [hinge + X]) rather than your relationship being about (you + hinge.)

On two occasions, my partner shared with me that they were sad, either because their relationship was potentially about to end, or because they missed their secondary partner after a breakup. On both occasions, my mind immediately panicked. I concluded that I could not handle them sharing such negative emotions without me being able to do anything about it, apart from consoling.

Was that like a panic attack? Does your partner have good emotional boundaries, or not really? So you get nervous/panic feelings like they are going to come whoosh all their things on you/at you?

Do they communication well, do a soft start, obtain your consent for heavy conversations first? Or just come along and dump things on you from the sky? Maybe you both want to look into Non-Violent Communication by Marshal Rosenberg.

In my ideal world, I would love to be able to be fully transparent and give my partner every kind of support.

Is this expectation of yourself even realistic and reasonable?

FULLY transparent -- like LITERALLY?

EVERY kind of support? Or only realistic, reasonable, and rational support?

On my side, I am not very good at consoling people without proactively being able to help to solve their situation.

You might have to unpack that. What if you taking action is not the actual help needed? Is this more about you solving YOUR own anxiety from the back door-- solving it for them so YOU can relax? Or actually helping the person with THEIR thing?

If your toddler spills milk, you clean it up and get them a new cup of milk. But somewhere along the way, you start coaching your child on how to clean up spills, how to use paper towels, etc., how to at least get their new cup, if they're not able to pour the milk container because it's still too heavy for them. There is a period of "Okay, you try to clean it up some some first. I will watch and tell you the steps." And the child does clean up some of the mess, and you congratulate them. Then, when they aren't looking, you spritz and clean it up better/for real, because maybe while they soaked up the milk with the paper towel, they dripped all the way to the trash bin and now there are drips to deal with.

Little by little, the child grows and becomes able to solve it themselves and do the full job correctly. That is the ACTUAL help needed, right? Coaching and independence.

You can't have them at 30 years old still wanting you to clean up the spill and get them a new cup of milk.

Here... you might be able to do some help to start. But what is reasonable and realistic? How do you "taper it off," so they can help their own selves and do the job themselves?

As for your panic/anxiety, do you need to learn to self-regulate, maintain better emotional boundaries, not get sucked into their problems inappropriately?

Plus, I think I am still burnt from my partner's inability to manage their emotions in the first poly relationship they had. On their side, my partner committed to working on understanding how to manage big feelings through psychological help, but this has not happened yet (even though it will happen soon), and they still need some work to gain emotional independence in managing all this.

Might you also need to do some work with a counselor on maintaining your emotional boundaries and not getting sucked into their stuff? Healing whatever you got burnt on? Figuring out what "healthy interdependence" in a relationship looks like?

Not everything is "our stuff." Some is "my stuff, my responsibility" that you do alone. Some is "their stuff, their responsibility" that partner has to do alone. And some things are "our stuff, out shared responsibility" that you tend to together.

Are you two able to discern that?

Galagirl

 

[bibic93]

OMG, thanks everybody! I feel really seen and all your replies are super interesting!

Don't ask don't tell means something more in ENM than just a request to not share details of a grief over missing a partner after a breakup. DADT means you don't even want to know your metamour's names, or if your partner is going out to see one of their other partners. In strict DADT, your partner just goes out, and you don't know if they are seeing a platonic friend, a lover, or just going out by themselves.

Let me start with this, because I think I misused some words here. (Sorry, despite reading as much as I can, I'm still a newbie, especially because I have nobody who can correct me in my group of friends ihih.) I know who the secondary partner is (I only didn't want to know the name this time), I know what they do, what their agreements are, the problems they are facing. And we've also discussed what my partner's emotional involvement is and the boundaries they have set.

The DADT in my case is definitely not radical. We do have discussions about their relationship. My thinking when my partner started dating again was that I didn't want to be as emotionally involved as I was in the previous secondary relationship. Now it's a matter of finding a new balance. But there are these triggers involved which are pushing me more towards putting more boundaries in place, compared to before, in terms of what I want to know.

There are no rules in poly about how much info you and your partner share with each other. You really have to be your own judge about what information you can and can't process. I don't think you can deal with your partner's upset emotions, so, in that sense, you should have a "DADT."

Exactly. In this case, the current boundaries are more around my partner's upset emotions or limerence-style attachments. I do think that my partner needs to work on managing emotions and feelings. Actually, they were the first to say that this was the case.

Maybe share those kinds of issues with a counselor, or a platonic friend, not with another romantic/sexual partner. Just share a general outline of what went wrong and how you're feeling, but don't unload every detail.

That's what the current discussion revolves around. I think it's important for my partner to first learn a bit more how to manage their limerence and strong feelings without involving me, unless, of course, it's serious and he needs my active help. I think that, for now, they could share the "I miss them" or "I am sad because I don't see them anymore" with friends or with a counsellor. In parallel, I am definitely ready to work on myself to be able to learn how to give a generalized grief support without needing to feel like I need to fix anything.

 

[bibic93]

In this specific scenario is it BECAUSE he said, specifically, he can't see her any more?

Does this statement make you feel some kind of way? Do you have to get over your feelings first before being able to support him? Is it THIS specific work that you want to avoid?

Preface: when they told me that, I was ill, had just gotten my period, was going through some emotional issues on my side unrelated to our relationship, and I was alone in another state for work, in the middle of a 10-day trip in 3 different countries. So, in this specific case, my brain surely overreacted. But I still think it was very telling, despite it definitely not being an excuse to avoid working on myself.

My brain had several phases. (I will be blunt and report my inner dialogue.):
1. "What do you want from me? What should I do with this info? Can't you manage it on your own? I don't want to go back to me holding you in my arms crying for somebody else. That hurts too much because I feel helpless and frustrated. I don't want to repeat that again."
2. "No, that's bad. You shouldn't be so strict and assume they can process emotions in a rational way, like you do. Show empathy, please. You know that this feeling is not dangerous for your relationship, so it's not a problem. At the same time, it's fair you can't handle this. So it's time to put some boundaries in place." I took 20 minutes to process all of this because I was very emotionally upset.
3. I ended up calmly saying, "I am sorry you go through this, as it must be difficult. But this time, I prefer that you don't share these details with me because I simply can't handle it yet. I would love to, but I can't." Then we had a very nice discussion on the phone and said we would talk about it when we saw each other again. (It's a long-distance relationship.)

I don't think I want to "avoid" any work. I am definitely happy to work on myself, but I think I need time. And I need also reassurance that my partner can independently deal with their limerence or strong emotions on their own, because this wasn't the case in the past. and they recognise it's a problem that needs to be fixed on their side.

My partner and I have instituted stating the need before making the request.

(We now use the Triforce of Communication from Multiamory podcast 83. I highly recommend a listen.)

This is a great suggestion. I will definitely listen to the podcast. Thanks!

I'm a work in progress and it goes against my personality, but the hard things to do are always the skills that are most rewarding to achieve.

I fully agree and my goal is to get there, for sure.

Now you've lost respect for partner

No, no, that's definitely not the case! There is a lot of respect between us, and actually, despite that relationship being toxic and hurting both of us, we think it made us stronger. It's just a matter of navigating the unknown territory of a poly relationship, while trying to do the best we can to grow personally, moving away from past trauma and generational wrong behaviours, and learning how to navigate our different approaches to feelings.

If you want a shared agreement, then you do have to discuss with the person(s) to arrive at the agreement. But a personal boundary is an agreement you make with just yourself. It doesn't have to involve anyone and doesn't need discussion. You just decide.

I get what you're say about boundaries. I think, in my case, I would like to find agreements instead of setting boundaries then. I feel I need to take into account the needs of both of us, and find middle ground. For sure a boundary I set is: "I don't want a toxic secondary relationship being close to us." So, for me, I would drastically veto a secondary partner if I realized (like it was last time) that it was a toxic situation. The last time, I was too condescending because I simply didn't know better.

The parts in bold may need unpacking.

We did unpack quite a bit already. I didn't expand on this here because I would have to write a whole book just on this. haha For sure, there are still some things that need to be healed and some wounds I am discovering just now! But the great thing is that we both have a healthy way of discussing all this; it's just that we need a bit more time also because we live far apart, so that kind of slows down the process sometimes.

Could DADT work out if you made a list of examples and non-examples?

• Things like THIS -- tell me about it.
• Things like THAT -- do not tell me about it.
• Area of discernment -- a thing that doesn't fall into the lists well and needs to be examined on its own.

That's exactly the direction I am going toward and that's the work I have been doing in my head in the past months, to say: "This, I wanna know. This, I don't want to know, as I am not yet ready, or because I'll never be." Before the rule was: "Tell me everything you want," but that clearly didn't work and wasn't appropriate. But, hey, we learn as we go in these situations, right? haha

Is this expectation of yourself even realistic and reasonable?

No, no. That's why I said "ideal," because I know it's impossible (and I tried it on my skin) and that some limits will always remain. I just have to figure out which ones.

That is the ACTUAL help needed, right? Coaching and independence.

Yes, but I am not sure I am able to "coach" him, in any shape or form, on how to manage romantic (in the most literal meaning of the word) secondary relationships or limerence, because I am so rational that what they are doing is diametrically opposite to what I would need and do. (I am not interested in having feelings for other people, but I rather focus on exploring my sexuality.)

I am super happy that they are developing this side of their personality. I am actually fascinated by it. I find it enriching to witness. We fully agree on the underlying values (e.g., love being a non-exclusive feeling and love not being a finite feeling that I need to fight for in competition with others...). So that's why I think they really need to seek counselling support outside our relationship, because there are certain issues where I am currently unable to give support because either I still don't have the skills or I simply can't handle it at time being.

And, to conclude, a clarification:

Do they communication well, do a soft start, obtain your consent for heavy conversations first? Or just come along and dump things on you from the sky? Maybe you both want to look into Non-Violent Communication by Marshal Rosenberg.

For sure, nobody is perfect. We both made mistakes in the past. But the thing about our communication that I appreciate a lot is that we try as much as possible to be delicate, understanding and respectful of our differences. Also, the ultimate goal of every kind of discussion we have is to care for each other and nurture the relationship. All the discussions we have are based on strong common ground we have built over the past seven years. Yes, sometimes I can have moments when my mind finds it very difficult to process certain emotions, but there is always willingness on my side to regulate myself, and willingness on their side to give me support. The contrary is also valid. For sure, we could communicate better, but I am very satisfied with how we do it now, and I feel safe in it, because I know that we will discuss every problem together with respect and love. And we already said that we will read your comments together when we meet in person!

I tried to reply as much as possible to all the main points you raised, but I would love to continue the discussion should you have other advice or comments. It has already been extremely helpful for me and made me feel seen like never before.

 

[Evie]

Is your partner going through a lot of these limerence/heartbreak cycles? It rather sounds like they are, so yeah, I can definitely see how that would get exhausting from your end if it's a repetitive behaviour. Are they a bit of a kid in a candy store with polyamory and none of these flings are lasting long enough for them to actually develop good hinge skills?

I see you mention veto. Just a heads up that that could go down like a lead balloon if they are in the midst of their limerence and you try that veto. Definitely likely to encounter some pushback, and even if they relented, resentment would abound. Generally around here, we recommend knowing where our own hard limits are, usually called boundaries, which mean we would walk away if they are crossed. They're self-love. They can also look a lot like ultimatums when voiced. "If you're going to continue engaging in this toxic relationship, I'm going to walk away, because I do not want to be negatively affected by it any longer," (self-love/boundary) vs. "you have to break up with that person, they're toxic and I'm sick of the fallout," (veto/control).

Sometimes, we walk away for a little while (with effective communication about this process). Sometimes we walk away for good. If you're finding you need to walk away for a little while a lot, it's seriously worth reconsidering the relationship.

As for this boom bust limerence cycle with your partner and their dating, perhaps your verbal expression of your boundary would be, "if you start to talk with me about your emotions around your latest break up, I'm going to stop you. If you continue that line of conversation, I will walk away from you for an hour." All if-then statements, ones that will teach your partner how you want to be treated in your relationship when it comes to their dating.

 

[bibic93]

Thanks, Evie!

Is your partner going through a lot of these limerence/heartbreak cycles?

I wouldn't say it's "a lot" because there was a first relationship (the toxic one) that lasted a year and now there has been another one that lasted, I think, a couple of months. However, my partner does have a tendency to fall in love often and wants to engage in secondary relationships involving feelings, which is totally fine for me as long as they can manage it. Hopefully all this will be worked out in counselling they are happily willing to start soon.

"If you're going to continue engaging in this toxic relationship, I'm going to walk away, because I do not want to be negatively affected by it any longer," (self-love/boundary) vs. "you have to break up with that person, they're toxic and I'm sick of the fallout," (veto/control).

okok very clear, thanks for the clarification. The first wording is exactly what I used in the first toxic relationship and that eventually resulted in them ending the relationship.

All if-then statements, ones that will teach your partner how you want to be treated in your relationship when it comes to their dating.

for sure we are going to set some of those if-then statements from both sides.

 

[Magdlyn]

I see you mention veto. Just a heads up that that could go down like a lead balloon, if they are in the midst of their limerence and you try that veto. You are definitely likely to encounter some pushback, and even if they relented, resentment would abound. Generally around here, we recommend knowing where our own hard limits are, usually called boundaries, which mean we would walk away if they are crossed. They're self-love. They can also look a lot like ultimatums when voiced. "If you're going to continue engaging in this toxic relationship, I'm going to walk away, because I do not want to be negatively affected by it any longer," (self-love/boundary) vs. "You have to break up with that person. They're toxic and I'm sick of the fallout," (veto/control).

Sometimes we walk away for a little while (with effective communication about this process). Sometimes we walk away for good. If you're finding you need to walk away for a little while a lot, it's seriously worth reconsidering the relationship.

As for this boom-bust limerence cycle with your partner and their dating, perhaps your verbal expression of your boundary would be, "If you start to talk with me about your emotions around your latest break-up, I'm going to stop you. If you continue that line of conversation, I will walk away from you for an hour." All if-then statements, ones that will teach your partner how you want to be treated in your relationship when it comes to their dating.

Evie, that's a great explanation of the difference between personal boundaries/hard limits, shared agreements, and vetoes. I agree that sitting down and understanding our own needs to feel secure, safe, balanced, and then coming up with personal boundaries is much more effective and practical than trying to veto someone else's choice of partner.

It works in non-poly relationships too. For example, my partner Pixi's brother is a horrible sociopath/misogynist/narcissist. Pixi is fully aware that I have a boundary around him: i.e., I absolutely never want to see him again. So, when we go back to her hometown I will spend as much time as needed with her (sweet) mom, limited time with her (annoying) father, and not one second with her (evil) brother. Those are my personal boundaries. I will NOT tell Pixi that SHE can never see/talk to her brother again. (She actually needs to now, more than ever, because they have to collaborate about her ailing mother's health and care.)

My boundary does not limit Pixi's behavior. In fact, she can talk to ME all she wants about how SHE struggles with her brother. That's fine. I will offer sympathetic words, and allow her to brainstorm out loud about how to negotiate with him. She has learned on her own to hang up the phone when he starts one of his rages, for example. But I don't TELL her to hang up, or not see him, or whatever. I trust her to take care of herself, and I know it's hard to work with him to arrange care for their mom.

 

[bibic93]

Evie, that's a great explanation of the difference between personal boundaries/hard limits, shared agreements, and vetoes. I agree that sitting down and understanding our own needs to feel secure, safe, balanced, and then coming up with personal boundaries is much more effective and practical than trying to veto someone else's choice of partner.

It works in non-poly relationships too. For example, my partner Pixi's brother is a horrible sociopath/misogynist/narcissist. Pixi is fully aware that I have a boundary around him: i.e., I absolutely never want to see him again. So, when we go back to her hometown I will spend as much time as needed with her (sweet) mom, limited time with her (annoying) father, and not one second with her (evil) brother. Those are my personal boundaries. I will NOT tell Pixi that SHE can never see/talk to her brother again. (She actually needs to now, more than ever, because they have to collaborate about her ailing mother's health and care.)

My boundary does not limit Pixi's behavior. In fact, she can talk to ME all she wants about how SHE struggles with her brother. That's fine. I will offer sympathetic words, and allow her to brainstorm out loud about how to negotiate with him. She has learned on her own to hang up the phone when he starts one of his rages, for example. But I don't TELL her to hang up, or not see him, or whatever. I trust her to take care of herself, and I know it's hard to work with him to arrange care for their mom.

Thanks for sharing your example, Magdlyn! Very clear and helpful!

Then definitely my approach would be setting boundaries instead of vetoes. Also because that's exactly what happened in the past with my partner and what I usually do with friends or family. I was talking about vetoes because I read that was a valid option in poly relationships, but tbh, it makes a lot more sense to me to take the route of setting clear boundaries.

 

[Magdlyn]

Yeah, vetoes are popular with couples who practice hierarchical polyamory, where they are primaries with all other relationships being secondary, with never a chance of someone becoming a co-primary.

I'd say people newer to poly are more likely to have those kinds of relationships and to be able to veto each other's relationships. But vetoes should never be sprung on a newer partner. They should be told upfront that their partner's partner (their metamour) can cancel them at any time, for any reason. (And how many people will agree to date someone whose other partner has a veto in their back pocket?)

Sometimes we end up dating someone who is more or less "toxic." For example, covert narcissists are experts at appearing wonderful at first, until the cracks start to show... If you suspect your partner is dating a narc, you can share your uneasiness with them, your fears for their personal safety (emotional or physical), recommend articles or a book to read, or counseling if needed, but, imo, you should then step back and allow your partner to deal with this toxic partner as they see fit. If seeing them in distress hurts YOU, you can distance yourself from your partner until they end the relationship on their own.

 

[GalaGirl]

I'm glad it helped you some.

So, for me, I would drastically veto a secondary partner if I realized (like it was last time) that it was a toxic situation. The last time, I was too condescending because I simply didn't know better.

What if the hinge says, "I know I said I would give you veto power and would dump people if you told me to. But I've changed my mind on that. I won't be dumping X"? Then what? Do you really want to date someone who can't recognize toxicity for themselves, and you have to be in a sort of parental role for your partner?

Do they know what healthy relationship is and is not?

https://rhntc.org/sites/default/files/resources/rhntc_hlthy_rlshp_wheel_spectrum_10-13-2022.pdf

Yes, but I am not sure I am able to "coach" him, in any shape or form, on how to manage romantic (in the most literal meaning of the word) secondary relationships or limerence, because I am so rational that what they are doing is diametrically opposite to what I would need and do. (I am not interested in having feelings for other people, but I rather focus on exploring my sexuality.)

To clarify, I'm not suggesting you coach partner on their romantic relationships. (Hinge + Meta) stuff is between them.

I'm suggesting there may be a transition time where you DO have to be patient and coach the hinge somewhat on how to talk to you better, so they don't overload you with their emotions, and so they can discern some things better on their own. You may have to provide examples.

• Stuff like THIS-- tell me about it.
• Stuff like THAT-- do not tell me about it.
• Stuff like this, that doesn't fall neatly onto either list, needs discernment, and we'll have to do our discernment process then.

But you can't coach forever. If this partner is still clunky and dinging you a year later, making no effort at all to think on their own, even with guided lists, being dependent on you, not actually emotionally independent-- that's going to be a problem.

Galagirl