Disentanglement

dingedheart

Active member
Several months back I participated in a thread in which the couple had opened up a couple yrs prior but the wife had more or less remained mono or hadn’t really clicked with anyone. And now ( around the time of the husband writing the thread) she went a little crazy and in her ideal world would like to spend 3-4 days a week with her new partner. in the thread the husband described this as going from 0 to 100 in a short span of time.


Follow this with another recent thread about the conundrum of an established poly couple where the husband sort of breaking established tradition and asking or expecting to be granted the entire weekend vs the usual solo overnight or date night.

Then over the weekend I was cleaning the garage ....well actually I was asked if I could help see if there were ladies golf clubs and a boys mountain bike or parts to put together a decent bike.

OK also how does this all tie together under the banner of disentanglement?

My daughter just graduated college and is going to be living With her Bf. He has always been an avid golfer since a young boy. My daughter has had golf lessens and played rounds of golf over the yrs but never into it. Same could be said for tennis and some other sports. See where I’m going here.

They live in an a large urban area and the bike he owned was stolen. Here’s a young couple inventing ways to spend time together by playing a round or taking a ride to a park or whatever.

The reason I have ladies golf clubs in the garage is my wife thought she wanted to play with me or us as a family. She might have also wanted to be with the corporate big dogs or pretend at charity golf outing but the fact remains her golf clubs her bicycle her skis, an extra kayak was purchased and invested in to further entangle her into something she had minimal interest.


So is the term disentanglement as it applies to this topic honest? Wouldn’t it be more accurate to say it’s conditioning the reduction in time and access.


Or is it for established couples the practical release from activities that you really didn’t want to do but agreed to out of the lack of something better to do.


As we all know time is a zero sum game and as we go off and do new and different activities with our new partners should we consider how entangling those activities are ??


Also could you take disentanglement too far? Has anyone ?? Has anyone did something symbolic or otherwise that might have actually hurt the relationship?
No one ever brings that up. Or possible regrets. Which brings me another thread I recently participated in where a women got her husband to open there relationship because of a sexual slide in frequency and gusto on his part and NOW he’s remade himself a bit and found a hot young thing for himself and she has some regrets.

I asked many specific questions to gain clarity on that thread but they all went unanswered so we don’t know if better disentangling would have helped or maybe too much disentangling occurred. Clearly several member thought that disentangling their finances was going to be the key. I really have doubts about that but I hope she keeps us updated.


This concept and practice wasn’t floated when I became a member here seeking advice and help but I wonder if it had would it be smart and easier to stipulate as part of the disentangling process that either person needs to bother with whatever was “ the usual” when it comes to wedding anniversaries because in actuality the old marriage is dead. As a process wouldn’t it be healthier acknowledge that and move forward instead of looking backwards??

I know for myself it would have been freeing in a way because more than once I had to scrabble having slipped on the date. I think my mom called once said congratulations and what were our plans or something and asked what....” oh fuck “ pull the team together and get something done by 6pm so I don’t have to listen to that the rest of my life. ��

For AG and some of the newbies out there does this have merit ?? I think it does. I think it’s a really good first step and it’s just a conversation unless of course you have an actually wedding anniversary along the same timeline.




http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=133313&highlight=Disentangling


http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=144983

http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=144863


PS. I did set them up with a set of golf clubs and a nice mountain bike ....and I got some of the garage cleaned out and organized. Win win win ....but maybe not down the road
 
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kdt26417

Official Greeter
Hi dinged,

I'm not sure I'm reading your new thread here exactly as you intended, but I will take a guess and you can correct me as appropriate. You seem to be suggesting that maybe disentanglement (in the original marriage) isn't always such a wonderful thing, as it adds to the death of the marriage and subtracts from the couple's opportunity to nurture the (now dead) marriage. And maybe you are saying that if the introduction of poly into a marriage, essentially kills that marriage, is there any point to then wearing the original wedding rings, or to celebrating the couple's observance of anniversaries? Maybe any link maintained between the husband and wife amounts to them kidding themselves. Am I on the right track? I'll even go a step further to add that maybe the death of a marriage should be acknowledged by getting a divorce. And you are looking for our response to that logic?

I am actually not completely behind the doctrine that poly ends a monogamous marriage. I don't necessarily think the old marriage dies, it lives on but under modified conditions. Obviously it is no longer monogamous, but the original couple's relationship still has unique value, or may still have unique value, not erased by (a) new relationship/s. In my V, I am the newcomer and my two companions are the original married couple. They still observe/celebrate their anniversaries (just celebrated their 25th), and I am okay with that. I would estimate that the wife now allocates to me some of her exclusive time and attention, probably some that was originally allocated to her husband. But they still spend time together away from me, and I believe that what they spend is enough to strengthen their marriage, in fact their marriage seems to be stronger than it was before I showed up. He accepts the poly setup, and gives generously of his time allotment, and that means a lot to her.

I won't necessarily go into further detail as I'm not sure I'm addressing this thread (and the other three threads) as you intended; I'll hold out for any questions you may have for me, and for any corrections you may have for what I am assuming about your intended message. Your response to my post here will probably have an effect on where I go in future posts. Let me know.

With regards,
Kevin T.
 

BrokenArrow

Member
So I'm currently working through the process of disentanglement with my wife. It's a real slow process, especially considering there's nowhere for me to go or nothing for me to do on my "me days". I usually end up sitting in my car listening to music. Last time I went to a gym for some cardio and strength training. That's about the extent of what I have going on.

I think it's important for couples to explore activities they like to do together. Why would anyone want to spend too much time with someone when they can't agree on anything they like to do? I dare say relationships are built on common interests and the willingness to explore each other's interests.

Disentanglement seems to become necessary when you find yourself totally defined by your relationship. When you can't watch anything because your wife's not home and you are watching all the good shows together. Or, how all your friends are her friends. Every decision you make revolves around the couple and there's no room for outside life. Things like that. That's kind of where I found myself.

My wife and I have a few things we like to do together, but we have a ton of different interests. Then we have some things that are kind of in between. I love to draw and paint but it's more her thing because I lack the ambition to get drawn into a big project like that. She likes to play video games but she can only go so long because it strains her eyes too much or she loses interest.

I would say you could disentangle too far. I believe it's just called drifting apart, though if you're intentionally working at it, it's more of a pushing away than drifting apart. Thanks for bringing that up. That's something I'll have to be careful of. Yeah, I need my own identity but there are things about "us" that should be cherished.

As a family unit, disentangling our finances seems like a disastrous decision. When Spitfire and I got married and decide to make little babies, we committed to ensuring the success and welfare of the little monsters. My paycheck pays the bills and her paycheck affords some cushion for comfortable living.
 

kdt26417

Official Greeter
There does seem to be a happy medium in there somewhere. Disentanglement is one thing, estrangement is another.
 

vinsanity0

Active member
Entanglement has nothing to do with finding activities you enjoy doing together. It's more about never finding activities you enjoy doing apart. Or even never being apart.

Disentanglement isn't about never doing anything together. The thread about the anniversary weekend has nothing to do with disentanglement. Neither does the other one.

I'm sure you are familiar with couples who do everything together. They never spend a night apart. They shop together. They eat dinner together every night. They never do anything apart except work. That may seem like a wonderful thing and some people consider it normal. It's not healthy though. And it's definitely a habit you want to change if you decide to do poly.
 

dingedheart

Active member
Hi dinged,

I'm not sure I'm reading your new thread here exactly as you intended, but I will take a guess and you can correct me as appropriate. You seem to be suggesting that maybe disentanglement (in the original marriage) isn't always such a wonderful thing, as it adds to the death of the marriage and subtracts from the couple's opportunity to nurture the (now dead) marriage.

Not necessarily. I was just throwing out open ended questions and ideas.


And maybe you are saying that if the introduction of poly into a marriage, essentially kills that marriage, is there any point to then wearing the original wedding rings, or to celebrating the couple's observance of anniversaries? Maybe any link maintained between the husband and wife amounts to them kidding themselves. Am I on the right track?

Yes I think the original marriage and contract that was establish and or acted for a number of yrs is now null and void and once start Dow the new path it’s essentially a new start point or a new anniversary date. And if you really want to disentangle to create space for new people maybe that is a logical first step.

I'll even go a step further to add that maybe the death of a marriage should be acknowledged by getting a divorce. And you are looking for our response to that logic?

We’ve seen that step taken A few times ....it doesn’t happen very often but it is a logic step for some.

I am actually not completely behind the doctrine that poly ends a monogamous marriage. I don't necessarily think the old marriage dies, it lives on but under modified conditions. Obviously it is no longer monogamous, but the original couple's relationship still has unique value, or may still have unique value, not erased by (a) new relationship/s.

Sorry but by your own definition and sentence the mono marriage has ended.
In the that structure the general focus of romantic and social energy for lack of a better word is your spouse. In the poly structure the spouse is one of (x) .
And I’m sure it has some value or they wouldn’t remain a couple however it’s changed fundamentally from where it started. Divided resources. Finite resources such as time, attention, energy and money. Presumably that was focused all in one direction and now it’s being distributed between ( ? ) a major shift. A shift large enough to say the old system and structure is dead. Elements still exist the people are still the same but the structure in which they operate is fundamentally changed.

In my V, I am the newcomer and my two companions are the original married couple. They still observe/celebrate their anniversaries (just celebrated their 25th), and I am okay with that. I would estimate that the wife now allocates to me some of her exclusive time and attention, probably some that was originally allocated to her husband. But they still spend time together away from me, and I believe that what they spend is enough to strengthen their marriage, in fact their marriage seems to be stronger than it was before I showed up. He accepts the poly setup, and gives generously of his time allotment, and that means a lot to her.
Thanks for sharing your story. Where they open prior to you becoming involved ? How did they decide to open up there marriage ? Did they do any of the disentangling steps / or prep prior to opening ? And how did you all decide to live together and how long had you been dating at that point ?

Also you said they observed or celebrated the 25 wedding anniversary. Was this a big thing for them or was it exchanging cards and dinner at your favorite taco place. ?

It’s interesting that you said your ok with that.....and completely believe you are ok with that but I wonder subconsciously or maybe consciously if a mono spouse such as myself way back when wasnt trying to say here’s one thing you can’t take away.??
With regards,
Kevin T.
 

dingedheart

Active member
So I'm currently working through the process of disentanglement with my wife. It's a real slow process, especially considering there's nowhere for me to go or nothing for me to do on my "me days". I usually end up sitting in my car listening to music. Last time I went to a gym for some cardio and strength training. That's about the extent of what I have going on.
do you know how and when you got so entangled in your wife’s activities or life ?? Before poly did you or she think you were living in some sort of codependency marriage ??

I think it's important for couples to explore activities they like to do together. Why would anyone want to spend too much time with someone when they can't agree on anything they like to do? I dare say relationships are built on common interests and the willingness to explore each other's interests.

But the line is a subjective one.

Disentanglement seems to become necessary when you find yourself totally defined by your relationship. When you can't watch anything because your wife's not home and you are watching all the good shows together. Or, how all your friends are her friends. Every decision you make revolves around the couple and there's no room for outside life. Things like that. That's kind of where I found myself.

I think we’re talking about 2 separate things here that just happen to overlap. It’s probably a really good idea to have an identity outside your spouse. The idea behind disentangling is conditioning the loss being the sole focus of what most of consider our most valuable resources time, attention, energy. It’s conditioning you for the alone times /date nights ...sleepovers and weekend trips or vacations.


My wife and I have a few things we like to do together, but we have a ton of different interests. Then we have some things that are kind of in between. I love to draw and paint but it's more her thing because I lack the ambition to get drawn into a big project like that. She likes to play video games but she can only go so long because it strains her eyes too much or she loses interest.

Why not do one of those different interests instead of sitting in you car listening to music ? Crack open the ton.



I would say you could disentangle too far. I believe it's just called drifting apart, though if you're intentionally working at it, it's more of a pushing away than drifting apart. Thanks for bringing that up. That's something I'll have to be careful of. Yeah, I need my own identity but there are things about "us" that should be cherished.

Does your wife view this process as being pretty much all about you or has she grown into a groove too ? How is in terms of disentangling?? Easy hard .fast slow ?

As a family unit, disentangling our finances seems like a disastrous decision. When Spitfire and I got married and decide to make little babies, we committed to ensuring the success and welfare of the little monsters. My paycheck pays the bills and her paycheck affords some cushion for comfortable living.


Have you decided or figured out how much money will be set aside for dating and outside interests?
 

dingedheart

Active member
Entanglement has nothing to do with finding activities you enjoy doing together.
I’m sorry list 40 activities couples “ find “ or invent to spend time with one another and I’ll show you entanglement. And I’m not saying entanglement is bad. Any dating or social commitment entangles a person. It’s just a fact.

It's more about never finding activities you enjoy doing apart. Or even never being apart.

Entanglement is more about finding activities you enjoy apart ??? What ? Look up entanglement. Or never being apart ?
I’ll help you out it’s ...the action or fact of being entangled. Internet is a cool thing.

Disentanglement isn't about never doing anything together.

Thanks I got that. Never said that or suggested that. Sorry you’re not getting the idea here.


The thread about the anniversary weekend has nothing to do with disentanglement. Neither does the other one.

You’re right about the anniversary thread that nowhere in it anyone specifically draw reference to disentanglement. I myself thought about it in my own case in a retroactive sense days after posting the thread.

And as for the other thread your flat out wrong. Do a tag search on disentangling and that thread comes up. Someone in that thread suggested or talked about it.

And are you saying because you don’t understand how a collection of different thread could be linked and or thought of under a specific banner /topic I’m wrong ?? I thought you were more open minded than that ?

I'm sure you are familiar with couples who do everything together. They never spend a night apart. They shop together. They eat dinner together every night. They never do anything apart except work. That may seem like a wonderful thing and some people consider it normal. It's not healthy though. And it's definitely a habit you want to change if you decide to do poly.

Yes I’m familiar that those couples exist somewhere out there in nature. I searched my memory banks to find any of my friends or associates and came up with No one or no couple ....however a client I had might be on the clingy weird side. All my guy friends and neighbors have poker nights, basket ball leagues, golf leagues or golf in general, Gary my next door neighbor belongs to a bicycling club ...Steve is in a motor cycle club, etc etc they/ we all spend nights and weekends away.

I thought the standard advice for people opening up a long standing mono marriage was to disentangle. NOT just codependent couples trying to become poly.

I definitely agree not a good thing if you decide to do poly. Do you think smothering codependency could be a factor driving people to open or poly ?
 

YouAreHere

Active member
Sounds like maybe we're conflating codependency with entanglement a bit? Some level of entanglement is fine, I think. Trying an activity to do with a partner, getting to know their friends and family - that's all part of getting closer to someone.

But it needs to be in both directions, and once you start losing your sense of self and subsuming yourself to the relationship, I think that's where things start going wrong.

When I got divorced, I realized that I wasn't physically close (distance-wise) to many of my friends, and I ended up finding a board gaming group (another interest of mine that wasn't my ex-husband's) and meeting people there. That, plus spending more time with work friends helped me regain a sense of "me" back... in addition to smaller things, like playing music I liked in the car (because my ex would complain about how awful music was nowadays except for country music), cooking and organizing my kitchen the way I liked, etc. That type of entanglement is harmful when you bury yourself down to avoid conflict.

As for financial entanglement, I won't do it again. That was a PITA after the divorce. But I'm past the point in my life where it's useful. I'm not building a home or family with anyone.
 

vinsanity0

Active member
I’m sorry list 40 activities couples “ find “ or invent to spend time with one another and I’ll show you entanglement. And I’m not saying entanglement is bad. Any dating or social commitment entangles a person. It’s just a fact.
But I thought we were talking about entanglement in a bad way. Couples having common interests isn't anything to worry about


Entanglement is more about finding activities you enjoy apart ??? What ? Look up entanglement. Or never being apart ?
I’ll help you out it’s ...the action or fact of being entangled. Internet is a cool thing.

Read it again. I said it's NOT about that. In other words, a couple is too entangled if they don't have any activities they do on their own.



You’re right about the anniversary thread that nowhere in it anyone specifically draw reference to disentanglement. I myself thought about it in my own case in a retroactive sense days after posting the thread.

And as for the other thread your flat out wrong. Do a tag search on disentangling and that thread comes up. Someone in that thread suggested or talked about it.
I view financial disentanglement as a separate thing from what you wrote about. It's certainly a problem, especially if one partner gave up a career to take care of the house.
And are you saying because you don’t understand how a collection of different thread could be linked and or thought of under a specific banner /topic I’m wrong ?? I thought you were more open minded than that ?

I don't see them as linked. You haven't changed my mind. That doesn't mean you are wrong. It means we disagree.


Yes I’m familiar that those couples exist somewhere out there in nature. I searched my memory banks to find any of my friends or associates and came up with No one or no couple ....however a client I had might be on the clingy weird side. All my guy friends and neighbors have poker nights, basket ball leagues, golf leagues or golf in general, Gary my next door neighbor belongs to a bicycling club ...Steve is in a motor cycle club, etc etc they/ we all spend nights and weekends away.

I thought the standard advice for people opening up a long standing mono marriage was to disentangle. NOT just codependent couples trying to become poly.

I definitely agree not a good thing if you decide to do poly. Do you think smothering codependency could be a factor driving people to open or poly ?
That advice is usually for couples with some level of codependency. For instance, we get a lot of people who don't know what to do while their partner is out on a date. Lately we've had a couple people here who are using finances against their partner, or whose partner is using finances against them. But I've never seen anyone suggest that a couple cease some activity, like golfing, in order to have a better relationship. I mean, what's the point of having a relationship if you do nothing together?

You ask an interesting question. I would say yes, that is a possibility, especially if one partner is more clingy than the other. That might not drive them to poly, but could certainly drive them away.

I think the opposite could be true as well. Maybe couples who have nothing in common or are thoroughly independent might be more inclined to try some form of non-monogamy.
 

vinsanity0

Active member
Sounds like maybe we're conflating codependency with entanglement a bit? Some level of entanglement is fine, I think. Trying an activity to do with a partner, getting to know their friends and family - that's all part of getting closer to someone.

But it needs to be in both directions, and once you start losing your sense of self and subsuming yourself to the relationship, I think that's where things start going wrong.
I think when we talk about disentanglement we are talking about a level of entanglement that at least verges on codependency. Dingedheart seems to have conflated that with any level of entanglement.
 

kdt26417

Official Greeter
Re (from dingedheart):
"Thanks for sharing your story. Were they open prior to you becoming involved?"

No, they weren't.

Re:
"How did they decide to open up their marriage?"

Snowbunny (the wife) and I fell in love, at the time we did not know about poly, Snowbunny did some web research and discovered poly, then she sat down with her husband and asked him if he would be willing to try it. Mind you, he did not say yes right away. They had many talks over the course of about a year. Eventually he said okay.

Re:
"Did they do any of the disentangling steps or prep prior to opening?"

I don't think they did any disentangling per se. They did make room in their schedules for me, both me with just Snowbunny and me with both of them (platonic activities). He and I (I refer to him here as Brother-Husband) also have platonic activities together, mostly watching stuff on TV.

Re:
"And how did you all decide to live together, and how long had you been dating at that point?"

I actually lived with them (part-time) before Snowbunny and I developed feelings for each other.

Re:
"Also you said they observed or celebrated the 25th wedding anniversary. Was this a big thing for them or was it exchanging cards and dinner at your favorite taco place?"

If I remember right, they did a road trip and ate out together, at a new place (new for us) called Farm to Table. Brother-Husband gave the restaurant rave reviews, and said he wants me to try it in the future.

I think they would have taken a plane out of state and spent at least a couple of days at a hotel or whatnot ... were it not for the Covid crisis. They might do something more extravagant for their anniversary next year.

Re:
"It's interesting that you said you're okay with that ... and I completely believe you are okay with that, but I wonder if, subconsciously or maybe consciously, if a mono spouse such as myself way back when wasn't trying to say, 'Here's one thing you can't take away.'"

To be honest Snowbunny "wears the pants" in this house, and it's primarily her idea to keep the anniversaries going. I will say she makes the right call, as Brother-Husband is a holiday-and-special-occasion type of guy, and he would be sorely disappointed if their anniversaries went away. Heck and as for me, maybe my okayness is my way of saying, "Here's one thing I won't take away."

Regards,
Kevin T.
 

JaneQSmythe

Active member
I was going to do one of those massive multi-post-quote replies - but my concentration isn't up to it ...so this may be a bit choppy!:rolleyes:

... recent thread about the conundrum of an established poly couple where the husband sort of breaking established tradition and asking or expecting to be granted the entire weekend vs the usual solo overnight or date night.

..would it be smart and easier to stipulate as part of the disentangling process that either person needs to bother with whatever was “ the usual” when it comes to wedding anniversaries because in actuality the old marriage is dead.

I know for myself it would have been freeing in a way because more than once I had to scrabble having slipped on the date. I think my mom called once said congratulations and what were our plans or something and asked what....” oh fuck “ pull the team together and get something done by 6pm so I don’t have to listen to that the rest of my life. ��

As a person (female) who doesn't particularly care about anniversaries and "special" days ALL of the above seems super-stress-y and unnecessary!

There is a prominent stereotype out there that when a woman says "no really, don't get me anything" what she means is "read my mind and you better get it right!:eek:"

My husband (and now Dude) know me well enough to know that when I say "I don't care." I meant that I actually, factually, really don't care. Do NOT buy me flowers! (waste of money, they are already DEAD). Do NOT buy me jewelry or perfume (waste of money, I don't wear it). Do NOT buy me chocolate (I don't like it, buy yourSELF chocolate if you want to eat it.)

Dude was shocked that MrS and I had made zero plans for our 20th wedding anniversary (we are amused if one of us actually remembers to say Happy Anniversary!)- so he arranged for us all to go Go-Karting - Yay ! Fun !

This has nothing to do with the old marriage being dead - and everything to do with a person's preferences. As to the old marriage being "dead" - well, now, that depends on the terms of the marriage. I (and a few other folks on this forum) went into our marriages with the understanding that monogamy and sexual exclusivity was NOT part of the deal. So these are actually two separate issues.

The reason I have ladies golf clubs in the garage is my wife thought she wanted to play with me or us as a family. She might have also wanted to be with the corporate big dogs or pretend at charity golf outing but the fact remains her golf clubs her bicycle her skis, an extra kayak was purchased and invested in to further entangle her into something she had minimal interest.

Or is it for established couples the practical release from activities that you really didn’t want to do but agreed to out of the lack of something better to do.

Again, to me this seems like an entirely different problem - why in the world would you spend time and money (limited resources) doing ANYTHING that didn't appeal to you?!?! Sure, rent a set of >whatever< and give it a try but to buy gear before you know you love it? Weird. There are any number of things that I am interested in that I don't have time to pursue, I don't really understand why anyone agrees to do things that they didn't want to.

(Perhaps I am fortunate, the boys have no problem going off and doing whatever on their own or with each other - regardless of whether I am interested or not. i like to be given the option, but don't feel any pressure to participate if it doesn't interest me.)

As we all know time is a zero sum game and as we go off and do new and different activities with our new partners should we consider how entangling those activities are ??

In my mind, yes - if I am considering taking up a new interest (with a partner, friend, or by myself) then I consider what, in my life time/money/attention-wise I have to give up (in terms of time, money, etc.) in order to accommodate the new activity.

.. Clearly several member thought that disentangling their finances was going to be the key. I really have doubts about that but I hope she keeps us updated.

I was one of the ones that probably advocated clarifying the finances in terms of his/hers/theirs. To be fair, I don't think that is the "key" but many people seem to "key in" on financial discrepancies as the "root" of their conflict. (i.e. "she spends our/my money on him"). I think money is a a convenient "straw-man" in these conflicts - if you whittle away the objections about financial fairness (by having a defined division of household vs. fun money) they you can winnow problems down to the actual problem.
 

dingedheart

Active member
I was going to do one of those massive multi-post-quote replies - but my concentration isn't up to it ...so this may be a bit choppy!:rolleyes:







As a person (female) who doesn't particularly care about anniversaries and "special" days ALL of the above seems super-stress-y and unnecessary!

And that was more or less communicated on the first few anniversaries and or “ special days” ...you taught him what the expectation is or was. Correct ?


There is a prominent stereotype out there that when a woman says "no really, don't get me anything" what she means is "read my mind and you better get it right!:eek:"

I never had that experience she never said don’t get me anything. And in the early yrs she expected some sort of a gesture or remembrance.


My husband (and now Dude) know me well enough to know that when I say "I don't care." I meant that I actually, factually, really don't care. Do NOT buy me flowers! (waste of money, they are already DEAD). Do NOT buy me jewelry or perfume (waste of money, I don't wear it). Do NOT buy me chocolate (I don't like it, buy yourSELF chocolate if you want to eat it.)

Makes complete sense and the world would be a better place with more practical and logical people in it. :D


Dude was shocked that MrS and I had made zero plans for our 20th wedding anniversary (we are amused if one of us actually remembers to say Happy Anniversary!)- so he arranged for us all to go Go-Karting - Yay ! Fun !

To me this is sort of funny too in what different peoples expectations are.


This has nothing to do with the old marriage being dead - and everything to do with a person's preferences. As to the old marriage being "dead" - well, now, that depends on the terms of the marriage. I (and a few other folks on this forum) went into our marriages with the understanding that monogamy and sexual exclusivity was NOT part of the deal. So these are actually two separate issues.
The article and concept of disentangling was for couples that had an established or long standing mono marriage and were taking steps to open the marriage. The old routines and activities are re-evaluated to make room for time spent doing new activities with a new person. Great point on personal preference but couldn’t one argue that the path to co- dependency is NOT establishing those preferences whether it’s with a spouse on the front end of a marriage about golf or having public sex with a bf/lover Or vis Vera public sex with husband and golf with BF.


In my mind, yes - if I am considering taking up a new interest (with a partner, friend, or by myself) then I consider what, in my life time/money/attention-wise I have to give up (in terms of time, money, etc.) in order to accommodate the new activity.

A very practical and logical position however during the NRE phase people don’t always think that way.



I was one of the ones that probably advocated clarifying the finances in terms of his/hers/theirs. To be fair, I don't think that is the "key" but many people seem to "key in" on financial discrepancies as the "root" of their conflict. (i.e. "she spends our/my money on him"). I think money is a a convenient "straw-man" in these conflicts - if you whittle away the objections about financial fairness (by having a defined division of household vs. fun money) they you can winnow problems down to the actual problem.

No ...you’re thinking of a different thread. As far as I remember you did not post on the one I participated on/ the one I linked.

The one I was referring to was wifey got bored with hubby after about 5 yrs ...pushed to open up ...hubby never enthusiastic about this and struggled with her dating multiple men so she decides to “ settle down “ with one guy. The guy she selected just happen to be a broke Unemployed pot smoking Stud. His main talent and job was /is banging her. He continually asks for money and because she doesn’t work she has to turn around and ask hubby who not into paying that guy to fuck his wife. Paraphrasing/summarizing.

Recently Hubby either gets tired of his situation or decides to take full advantage of his open marriage and is Motivated to loses weight, buys a new wardrobe...get professional photos done for his dating profile and guess what ...he bags a young hot thing and NOW his wife is seriously threatened by the “ bimbo “ and she wants to quite poly. The money aspect of the thread is hubby has a great job and income and he’s pay for wife and friends to go on trips and vacations but won’t do the same for pot smoking Bf. Lots of people were fixated on the money flow from the husband as being the key issue on that thread. I don’t think so.
 

dingedheart

Active member
Thanks again Kev for sharing. Was this story/ facts out on the forum. I don’t recall any of this. I thought you wife having Alzheimer’s was sort of the driving force behind you being poly.



Re (from dingedheart):


No, they weren't.

Re:


Snowbunny (the wife) and I fell in love, at the time we did not know about poly, Snowbunny did some web research and discovered poly, then she sat down with her husband and asked him if he would be willing to try it. Mind you, he did not say yes right away. They had many talks over the course of about a year. Eventually he said okay.

So this started from an emotional affair or was cheating / sex going on ??

I don't think they did any disentangling per se. They did make room in their schedules for me, both me with just Snowbunny and me with both of them (platonic activities). He and I (I refer to him here as Brother-Husband) also have platonic activities together, mostly watching stuff on TV.

I think that counts. Would you say they’re pretty independent and didn’t need such disentangling? Do you and snowbunny go on vacations or extended trips , etc ? In Your blog it always sounds like the 3 of you.



I actually lived with them (part-time) before Snowbunny and I developed feelings for each other.
.

How did that happen and did that continue after the announcement of the 2 of you falling in love ?

If I remember right, they did a road trip and ate out together, at a new place (new for us) called Farm to Table. Brother-Husband gave the restaurant rave reviews, and said he wants me to try it in the future.

I think they would have taken a plane out of state and spent at least a couple of days at a hotel or whatnot ... were it not for the Covid crisis. They might do something more extravagant for their anniversary next year.

And your anniversary with Snowbunny ? Same Same?

To be honest Snowbunny "wears the pants" in this house, and it's primarily her idea to keep the anniversaries going. I will say she makes the right call, as Brother-Husband is a holiday-and-special-occasion type of guy, and he would be sorely disappointed if their anniversaries went away. Heck and as for me, maybe my okayness is my way of saying, "Here's one thing I won't take away."

Regards,
Kevin T.

Do you remember what happened the first yr you were part of the clan ?? Was he excited and psyched up for it then ? It sound like it could have been pretty fragile the first couple of yrs and even her wearing the pants and pushing something like this if he’s turned the other way in which he doesn’t care about such things any more it really ceases to have the desired effect it could easily be dropped.
 
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kdt26417

Official Greeter
Re:
"Thanks again Kev for sharing. Was this story/facts out on the forum? I don't recall any of this."

You should be able to review all of those facts/story in the first two posts of my blog. Brother-Husband is listed (in those posts) as BH, Snowbunny as LH (which stands for "Lady Hinge"). My wife is listed as LV.

Re:
"I thought your wife having Alzheimer's was sort of the driving force behind you being poly."

I guess you could say that that was part of the equation behind the increasing involvement/closeness between the four of us (BH, LH, LV, and me). Although what really changed things between LH (Snowbunny) and me (from platonic to romantic) was the increasingly-long emails the two of us exchanged.

Re:
"So this started from an emotional affair or was cheating/sex going on?"

I guess you could call it an emotional affair ... although Snowbunny did tell her husband early on about her feelings for me. I would even say that that was not entirely news to him; she and I were already spending a lot of time together (with his blessing), and he would jokingly say to her that I was "her boyfriend."

Re:
"Re:
'I don't think they did any disentangling per se. They did make room in their schedules for me, both me with just Snowbunny and me with both of them. He and I also have platonic activities together, mostly watching stuff on TV.'
I think that counts. Would you say they're pretty independent and didn't need such disentangling?"

I suppose they weren't overly entangled. Depends on how you define it. I wouldn't say they were attached at the hip.

Re:
"Do you and Snowbunny go on vacations or extended trips, etc.?"

We've spent up to a week at a time, just the two of us, in Utah. We've done that two or three times. Other times, all three of us stayed in Utah.

"In your blog it always sounds like the three of you."

We do quite a bit of stuff together as a trio, but we also do quite a bit of stuff together just two at a time.

Re:
"Re:
'I actually lived with them before Snowbunny and I developed feelings for each other.'
How did that happen and did that continue after the announcement of the two of you falling in love?"

The living together happened partly as a way to make it easier for the three of us to take care of LV ... but it also happened as just four friends who wanted to live together. Yes it continued after Snowbunny and I developed the feelings for each other.

Re:
"Re:
'If I remember right, they did a road trip and ate out together, at a new place called Farm to Table. Brother-Husband gave the restaurant rave reviews, and said he wants me to try it in the future.
I think they would have taken a plane out of state and spent at least a couple of days at a hotel or whatnot ... were it not for the Covid crisis. They might do something more extravagant for their anniversary next year.'
And your anniversary with Snowbunny? Same same?"

Nothing for just the two of us. We do have moderate celebrations (eating out at a nice place) for the anniversaries of our three-person handfasting. The three of us do that together.

Re:
"Do you remember what happened the first year you were part of the clan?"

To my best recollection, he and she had their "regular" anniversary celebration just as they would have if I had not been there. I did not take part in that celebration, and have not in any of the years since then. Which is fine by me, I'm not what you'd call a holiday-and-special-occasion type of guy anyway.

Re:
"Was he excited and psyched up for it then?"

I would say he was pretty excited about the new poly arrangement, but if you are asking about their first anniversary after the poly started, then yes, I would say that he was pretty excited about that celebration as well. Brother-Husband doesn't usually overthink things, and he is good at living in the moment.

Re:
"It sounds like it could have been pretty fragile the first couple of years, and even her wearing the pants and pushing something like this, if he's turned the other way in which he doesn't care about such things anymore, it really ceases to have the desired effect; it could easily be dropped."

It's fair to say that we had some fragile/rough times during our first few years together, but those were just difficulties in getting along together and in making things work. I would not say that we were having second thoughts about being poly with each other, we were just having some struggles about how to make it all work.

Also I would not say that their marriage was weakened in any way, nor was their desire to celebrate their anniversaries weakened. I guess you could say their anniversaries are compartmentalized. They are not grouped together with our poly status. When they are celebrating their anniversaries, I am "just a friend." It's always been like that.

I don't know if I have read all your questions correctly, and I don't know if I have replied in the way you had in mind. If not, just ask me some follow-up questions, I'm always glad to answer questions.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 

Tinwen

Active member
I only read the initial post so far, not the rest of the tread.

I think disentanglement is mostly about letting go of "automatic" expectations (and likely also, as you say, letting go of activities that you never enjoyed so deeply anyway). The post that got disentanglement popular talks about not assuming your partner is gonna be home and available every night. Same could be said about assuming you are (your primary is) the automatic +1 to events. Though you may want to keep that kind of couple privilege for activities that you do enjoy the most together.

If you, in the process of "disentanglement", let go of activities that truly made you feel connected with your partner, then you definitelly went too far. However, if both really enjoyed the activity, this error is usually easily corrected.

Most regrets imho happen if one of the partners enjoyed an activity (say, for example, having diner at the same time everyday), but the other only complied to please. When the activity is gone, one feels more free, the other is missing it. But that's more like highlighting a problem that was there all along.

Do you agree?
 

Dagferi

Active member
DH... In the post you are talking about the OP never once mentioned giving up the pot smoking stud just the husband giving up the bimbo.
 

dingedheart

Active member
Sorry but maybe my life is a tad to busy to be writing threads I haven’t had time to get back and answer. :eek:




DH... In the post you are talking about the OP never once mentioned giving up the pot smoking stud just the husband giving up the bimbo.

I’d have to reread it to say definitively yes or No on that specific point. I think it was implied she wanted to go back to mono from the title of her thread.

I thought that thread could have discussion points on disentangling the money ...and general expectations.....maybe she disentangled too much ?? She was quite happy when it was all her way and it all changed when he decided to jump in the pool.
 

dingedheart

Active member
I only read the initial post so far, not the rest of the tread.

I think disentanglement is mostly about letting go of "automatic" expectations (and likely also, as you say, letting go of activities that you never enjoyed so deeply anyway). The post that got disentanglement popular talks about not assuming your partner is gonna be home and available every night. Same could be said about assuming you are (your primary is) the automatic +1 to events. Though you may want to keep that kind of couple privilege for activities that you do enjoy the most together.

It’s been awhile since I read the article so I can’t quote any specifics. But the umbrella seemed pretty large and to me at the time I wondered if the word was correct in its direct usage and intent. By that I mean it’s really a method of conditioning. And the intent is to create gaps and space in schedule and routines to allow for a new romantic interest. And then the practical logic ...I’m going to disentangle from my married partner to entangle with someone or others romantically.

If you, in the process of "disentanglement", let go of activities that truly made you feel connected with your partner, then you definitelly went too far. However, if both really enjoyed the activity, this error is usually easily corrected.

I stopped wearing my wedding band and I definitely stopped amusing even when she was home she was available. I also wasn’t overly eager to engage in the new system. If that makes any sense. I thought I’d sit back and see / watch what her interests and desires were.


Most regrets imho happen if one of the partners enjoyed an activity (say, for example, having diner at the same time everyday), but the other only complied to please. When the activity is gone, one feels more free, the other is missing it. But that's more like highlighting a problem that was there all along.

Do you agree?

Is this example a case of unintended consequences like be careful what you wish for?

I think the Big regrets are when people are shocked to learn someone seemly did stuff for yrs that they didn’t really enjoy....I can’t think of a really good example but let’s just say Camping. And then 15 yrs later in therapy or something it comes out and you’re looking at the person questioning what the hell else is there you thought you knew.
 
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