First wife looking for advice and guidance.

Courtney

New member
I'm hoping to get in touch with a woman who has been faced with the same challenges as me. My husband would like me to consider opening up our relationship and family to another woman so we can continue to grow our family and achieve the lifestyle we want. We have 3 beautiful boys together and want to create the best possible life for them in a nuturing and self sustainable home. We're just beginning our journey of homesteading.
I'd love to find someone to talk to about their experiences, in regards to this lifestyle and also about life in general. Hopefully it will help to open my mind up more.
Thanks xx
 
I'm curious how you/your husband think this will give your children the "best possible life"? Why wouldn't their life be the best it can possibly be without another wife for you/your husband (it's not clear in your post whether you're bisexual and whether you'd expect to be "sharing" this hypothetical (?) person or if they would be just another partner for your husband). Either way, would it be understood from the beginning that it's a condition of the relationship that this new partner expect to be an extra caretaker for the children? Would the new person be allowed to pursue other relationships outside or bring their other partner(s) into the homestead/poly family? I'm just trying to get as much information from you as I can because at first glance it looks like your husband is trying to "sell" this to you as "you get extra help with the kids around the house and I get another willing warm wet hole around the house." We see this all the time. Are you truly and joyfully interested in this or are you going along with it just to try to keep your husband happy?
 
My husband would like me to consider opening up our relationship and family to another woman so we can continue to grow our family and achieve the lifestyle we want.

Is this "We want it" or "He wants it"?

"Grow our family" HOW? What does that mean? He wants to date other people? Have another spouse? Have more kids with the hypothetical lady?

What about you? Do you want to date other people? Have another spouse? Have more kids with a different person than your husband?

Is this all supposed to happen here? What if the potential comes already partnered and with kids? People sometimes approach it like "This will be just like us! But with 3!" because it's the easiest way to start thinking about it. But in real life that's not necessarily how it goes.

Some might think you are unicorn hunting.


We have 3 beautiful boys together and want to create the best possible life for them in a nurturing and self-sustainable home.

Is that not already happening with you and your spouse?

We're just beginning our journey of homesteading.

Homesteading is a lot. What things are you actually trying to do? Zero waste? Grow food? Homeschooling? Full-on self sufficiency? How deep into it are you?


Hopefully it will help to open my mind up more.

Saying, "Okay, I'll consider it" is NOT saying, "Yes, I'll do it. I want an open or polyamorous marriage."

You can consider it for a time, and in the end still say, "I considered it. No, thanks. I don't want this. It's fine for other people, but I don't want it for me. I do not want to participate in an open/poly marriage."

If this wasn't already part of your marriage vows, it's okay if this is a dealbreaker for you. You don't have to do polyamory. If your husband still does want to go there, you might have to have a conversation about how to change to healthy divorced coparents.

Some places to start reading could include:





The book "Opening Up" can be read free online at

HTH!
Galagirl
 
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Hello Courtney,

Open/poly aside, what you are proposing to do is somewhat unusual, most people don't do homesteading. What are the details, what do you want your self-sustainable home to look like? and, how will adding another woman (wife?) to your family help you achieve the lifestyle you want? Will there just be extra chores to do? Will you and the added woman both have sex with your husband? Is that part of the lifestyle you want to achieve? What about you, will you want to add a second man (husband?) for you? With homesteading, surely there will be enough work for both men to do. Does your husband want to have children with the added woman? Is there some reason you can't bear/conceive any more children?

Sorry to bombard you with questions, there is just a lot of pertinent information I would need before I could give you meaningful feedback and good advice. I know you are trying to open your mind to the new kind of relationship structure your husband is proposing. We are certainly pro-open and pro-poly on this forum, and don't in any way want to push you away from the idea. We just want to make sure that you will be treated fairly, and that your kids will truly benefit from the arrangement. Humans are capable of loving more than one person, that's for sure. Your husband is certainly capable of that -- and you are too!

So do share with us more information on your situation -- more background, more context, and more about what you and your husband hope to accomplish. If you'll do that, it will help us a lot in the area of knowing what to say that would help you. Hopefully there is a woman, somewhere on this forum, who has been where you are now, and can talk to you about her experiences. And hopefully, that will help you open up your mind some more. Again, though, let's make sure that the proposed arrangement will be good for you too, and not just for the rest of the family.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
I'm curious how you/your husband think this will give your children the "best possible life." Why wouldn't their life be the best it can possibly be without another wife for you/your husband (it's not clear in your post whether you're bisexual and whether you'd expect to be "sharing" this hypothetical (?) person or if they would be just another partner for your husband). Either way, would it be understood from the beginning that it's a condition of the relationship that this new partner expect to be an extra caretaker for the children? Would the new person be allowed to pursue other relationships outside or bring their other partner(s) into the homestead/poly family? I'm just trying to get as much information from you as I can because at first glance it looks like your husband is trying to "sell" this to you as "you get extra help with the kids around the house and I get another willing warm wet hole around the house." We see this all the time. Are you truly and joyfully interested in this or are you going along with it just to try to keep your husband happy?
I'm straight, so the second partner would be in relationship with my husband. This is a very new discussion, so we haven't covered all bases in what the do's and don'ts would be. I haven't asked him if he would expect the new woman to only be in a relationship with him, or if he is open to her having another partner. I've questioned myself about if I could handle "sharing" him and how I would feel if the other woman wanted to commit to him and have her own children with him.

She wouldn't just be a live-in nanny with benefits. We would all be equals. Having another person in our household would certainly help with the day-to-day tasks and bringing up our children. The lifestyle we would like to achieve ideally would be homeschooling our kids, growing and making our own foods and making the products used around the home. Having livestock. Will there be enough time to do all the things we want to achieve - homeschooling, the usual household chores, making food, tending to gardens and animals, other activities/sports that the kids want to do?

Don't worry. My first thought was that I'm not enough and he just wants to hook up with another chick. And it is still in the back of my mind because I am insecure. This isn't something I'm ready for just yet, but I am trying to think of the positives and the possibility that it could work. I'm still so unsure, and that's why I've reached out. Thanks for responding, you've help me add questions to my list, to ask myself and my husband.
 
Is this "We want it" or "He wants it"?

"Grow our family" HOW? What does that mean? He wants to date other people? Have another spouse? Have more kids with the hypothetical lady?

What about you? Do you want to date other people? Have another spouse? Have more kids with a different person than your husband?

Is this all supposed to happen here? What if the potential comes already partnered and with kids? People sometimes approach it like "This will be just like us! But with 3!" because it's the easiest way to start thinking about it. But in real life that's not necessarily how it goes.

Some might think you are unicorn hunting.




Is that not already happening with you and your spouse?



Homesteading is a lot. What things are you actually trying to do? Zero waste? Grow food? Homeschooling? Full-on self sufficiency? How deep into it are you?


Saying, "Okay, I'll consider it" is NOT saying, "Yes, I'll do it. I want an open or polyamorous marriage."

You can consider it for a time, and in the end still say, "I considered it. No, thanks. I don't want this. It's fine for other people, but I don't want it for me. I do not want to participate in an open/poly marriage."

If this wasn't already part of your marriage vows, it's okay if this is a dealbreaker for you. You don't have to do polyamory. If your husband still does want to go there, you might have to have a conversation about how to change to healthy divorced coparents.

Some places to start reading could include:





The book "Opening Up" can be read free online at

HTH!
Galagirl
At the moment it is something "he wants." He hasn't done any heavy persuading, just encouraged me to think about it.

We would like another kid, maybe 2. We haven't discussed it at great length whether the other woman would be fully committed to him and whether they would have kids together. I'm not sure how I would feel about "sharing" him and I really don't know how I would feel if she was to have his children. That's something that I take great pride in being able to give him.

I'm not interested in having more romantic relationships. I honestly think I would prefer to live with another already established family (husband, wife and their children), with the same lifestyle goals. I guess that would be another option. But I don't know where to begin looking for that. We would like to grow and make our own foods, have our own livestock, homeschool, and be as self sufficient as possible. We have only just moved to a bigger piece of land from living on a town block, so we're only just starting out. Our kids are 4 and under, so we still have some time before we start schooling.

I know I'm not ready for this kind of relationship yet, but I'm trying to do my research before I rule this out fully.

Thank you so much for your input and useful links.
 
Glad it helps you some.

She wouldn't just be a live-in nanny with benefits. We would all be equals.

No, you would not. You would be the legal spouse, and in many cases have legal standing and benefits she would not have.

Having another person in our household would certainly help with the day-to-day tasks and bringing up our children.
Is it possible to hire an actual nanny so you could have some help?

I honestly think I would prefer to live with another already established family (husband, wife and their children), with the same lifestyle goals,

Then you could pursue friendships with people/neighbors who want to create an intentional community.

I'm not interested in having more romantic relationships.

Even if you don't want any, I think it could be "open for all," if you choose to go there, because then it is YOU choosing not to exercise the option, and not like you don't have it at all. The same would go for the other woman. She should be able to date others, up to and including marrying them, and having kids with them, instead of with your husband.


My first thought was that I'm not enough and he just wants to hook up with another chick.

Well... does he? Is what he wants some other form of non-monogamy, such as "ENM" (ethical non-monogamy) or "monogamish," but just calling it "polyamory" because he doesn't know the words yet?

And it is still in the back of the mind, because I am insecure. This isn't something I'm ready for just yet, but I am trying to think of the positives and the possibility that it could work. I'm still so unsure, and that's why I reached out. Thanks for responding. You've help me add questions to my list, to ask myself and my husband.

Well... here's another way it sometimes turns out: the one who wanted it (your husband) tries it on, but it's not what they thought, and then they want to go back to monogamy. But the reluctant partner (you) didn't get to try it yet, or they did, and they turned out to have the skills and don't want to close back up. Have you and your husband considered what would happen if that were the case here?

You might list the dealbreakers, too. It might help you to talk to a poly counselor. YMMV, but you could look here:


Take your time to think this out. Remember, you are under NO obligation to practice open or poly marriage if you do not want to. This isn't the deal you signed up for when you got married. You can't make him stay if he no longer wants the old deal for himself. But you don't have to sign up for some new deal you don't really want either. It's okay to pass on it.

Galagirl
 
It seems to me (I could be wrong) that your husband has a patriarchal idea of polygamy (plural marriage), or polygyny (where one man has multiple women, but the women can only share him). He wants to take advantage of your insecurity, low self esteem and so on to fulfill the very common male fantasy of being able to have more than one female sex partner, just like in the "good old days" (like in the Old Testament), or in the present day, in cults such as the FLDS. It sounds like he wants to isolate you on your farm, and be the lord and master, be able to have sex with multiple "wives," father all the children, and have complete power and control over everything.

This does not sound like a good deal for you (putting it mildly). And if an imaginary other woman came into this arrangement, she'd have no legal rights, and any children she had with your husband would not have a father who was legally obligated to them.

Quite often, the newest wife becomes the favorite (that sexy novelty factor) and gets better treatment from the husband than the established wife or wives. You may have heard of or seen the long-running reality TV show, Sister Wives, which shows this quite clearly. Sometimes the husband legally divorces the first wife to marry the newest wife, causing the first wife and her children to lose their legal protection.

(After many seasons, the husband Cody's true colors have come to light. He's a narcissistic toxic jerk, basically. He divorced his legal wife to marry his newest favorite wife. His three longest-established wives have finally rebelled and left him to live and work as autonomous individuals. Many/most of his older kids, now adults, have turned against him.)

Galagirl is making suggestions based on actual modern polyamory principles, which is what this board is here to support. Modern polyamory is a woman-led, feminist idea. The whole concept is based on the equality of the sexes, where women have every right to have multiple sex/love partners, with full autonomy over their bodies. It's a completely different thing from the polygamy of old, where women had no legal rights pertaining to their own bodies. In patriarchal culture, a girl/woman was literally owned by her father, who would then pass ownership to another man, her husband, whom she would have to (love, honor and) obey, "keeping herself only unto him," as it says in Genesis in the Bible.

Humanity has had a patriarchy for approximately 3000 years, and has only been slowly and painfully changing to a more equality-based culture for about 100-150 years. There is a lot still to do. Don't backslide and give up the rights feminists have worked to claim for you.

I don't know about you, but I would never in a million years agree to this kind of deal. Most women wouldn't, unless they were brainwashed to see it as inevitable (from being raised in a polygamous household), or coerced by threats of violence, financial ruin, etc.

Your husband is trying to sell you this idea by saying, "Hey, this would be great for everyone! You'd get help with the kids, the housework, the farm work! You'd have a built-in best friend (sister wife) forever!" But it doesn't work that way. These kinds of households are full of envy, jealousy, territoriality, loneliness, anger and sadness, endless competition for attention from the husband/father (you'd have to compete for his time, and your kids would have to compete with their half-siblings), and so on. There is also often physical, sexual and emotional abuse, all the easier to hide because the women and children are socially isolated.

If you want to learn about actual modern polyamory, where women live and operate as true equals to men, read the books Opening Up, and/or Polysecure, for starters.
 
It’s possible your husband isn’t as patriarchally-minded as some suggest. However, what he proposes would mix TWO LIFSTYLES which are already DIFFICULT and MINORITIES on their own-- polyamory, and this community-striving-for-independence idea. What I hear from communities is that it is difficult enough to find likeminded people, and they need much maintenance on their own. As an upside, both lifestyles need relating skills that are similar in some ways.

I’d say, do one or the other, or do both, but as separately as possible. Get another live-in family if you have friends that close, but don’t bond romantically as well. Get other partners for sex and intimacy if you want to, and if you can make a reasonably equal deal. (E.g., he gets to go to the city and stay with his partner and you watch the kids on Tuesday. Then it should be natural that he watches them on Thursday, while you get free time.) But maybe start more with FWB-type relationships and don’t narrow your dating pool by also demanding the same lifestyle and even watching your kids.

If you can get to it, read the “So someone called you a unicorn hunter” article, because I’m calling your husband exactly that. ;)
 
 
I disagree about this being a unicorn hunting situation. It sounds like old fashion polygamy to me.

I encourage the OP to do some independent research about polygamy.
 
I disagree about this being a unicorn hunting situation. It sounds like old fashion polygamy to me.

I encourage the OP to do some independent research about polygamy.
It could be, I just feel we don’t have enough info to say it with certainty.

To be more explicit, the similarity I see with unicorn hunting is putting two sets of expectations on a potential person (“constructing a small box” as explained in the article). The proverbial unicorn hunters are looking for hot bi babe that will love both of them equally. These people, if they open up with the ideas proposed - assuming best intention possible - are looking for someone who will love the husband, be best friend and housemate to wife and kids and love their lifestyle too. That person probably doesn’t exist.
 
Worldwide, I imagine sister-wife polygamy relationships outnumber polyamory relationships. Those individuals face hostility on poly forums so they aren’t typically members of the poly community.

Anyway In poly language what’s being described here is a mono-poly V with husband as the hinge. Distinctly different than a triad, and the triad is central to the definition unicorn hunting.

I think OP might read the unicorn hunting article and struggle to relate to it. Whereas if OP read about common issues that senior wives experience in polygamy it will be more relevant.

I don’t think it is useful to apply the concept of unicorn hunter more broadly than the definition. It makes things muddy and we already throw that term around a lot.
 
...I'm not interested in having more romantic relationships. I honestly think I would prefer to live with another already established family (husband, wife and their children), with the same lifestyle goals. I guess that would be another option. But I don't know where to begin looking for that. We would like to grow and make our own foods, have our own livestock, homeschool, and be as self sufficient as possible. We have only just moved to a bigger piece of land from living on a town block, so we're only just starting out. Our kids are 4 and under, so we still have some time before we start schooling.

I know I'm not ready for this kind of relationship yet, but I'm trying to do my research before I rule this out fully.

Thank you so much for your input and useful links.

If you are straight and not interested in having more romantic relationships, then I don't see that there is really any benefit to you to consider opening up your marriage to another woman in this way. I think that you are spot on in considering making friends and neighbors with other families who would be interested in working on the homestead / sustainable living project with you. Perhaps on the same property, but with different domiciles or a multifamily home with some shared communal living spaces. Same support systems and "many hands make light work" idea but leaving the complications of romantic/sexual relationships out of it - more like extended family.

My husband and I (we have no children) are low-key into the off-grid self-sustaining idea. We bought our property a decade ago and have been slowly adding back-ups and accumulating skills, interests, supplies, long-term storage etc. Possibly adding livestock and food-raising after I retire (early) in a few years. There are plenty of homesteading resources online to share ideas and perhaps even groups to meet up with like-minded families who may be interested in forming a co-op or other community.

We are also ENM/poly but that is a separate thing...

JaneQ
 
Something we know is that polygamy works in other cultures and the women speak about as positively about that relationship structure as we do about ours. The problems are often not with the structure, but are with the people in the structure.

The problem is that these women have a totally different value system and live with a society that shares that value system. We do not and we have to deal with the value system of our own society.

A lot of non-monogamous people will tell you that your own acceptance and understanding of polyamory and the reactions of those around you are totally separate. When other people know you have more than one partner and/or your partner has other partners, they can devalue you and your relationship. Exclusivity is often a standard that has to be met to give legal validity to your relationship.

So, even if you personally share the value system of these women in polygamous marriages from other cultures, you're not in a place where other people do, too. That brings a whole new set of obstacles and dilemmas about how it will affect people who will be involved, but didn't consent to it. Family, for instance - kids especially.

Women in polygamous societies don't have to worry about what people might say to or about their children. They're not worried that whatever authority figures will question their suitability as parents because of their relationship structure. These are all issues people in Western societies do have to consider.

Still, I advise watching documentaries with an anthropological slant about non-Western societies which are polygamous, so you can see why it works for them. And then you can truly decide how much of their approach to polygamy you could feasibly adopt given the differences in lifestyle, culture and sometimes, religion.

The reason why I wouldn't suggest documentaries about Western polygamous communities is because they exist within a wider society which considers many of their norms and values as archaic or plain exploitative and abusive. That rejection from wider society brings a level of stress that may mean people are unhappier than they need to be. It would be better to see people who are accepted by their society and see what you really have in common with them.
 
I would suggest everyone watch documentaries, read books, watch YouTube interviews with people who have escaped from international high-control polygynous/polygamous cults. There are YouTube creators and groups of good people who have escaped from mainstream Mormonism (Latter Day Saints, or LDS), and the FLDS (Fundamentalist LDS/polygamy-based), and other similar cults, who have devoted their lives to helping others to escape these high-control cults and rebuild their lives. (These people need shelter, jobs, educations, clothes, life skills such as learning how to use technology, therapy for their PTSD and brainwashing, etc., etc.)

The only way to wipe these groups out is to be informed, stop them from recruiting and enable exploited abused women, girls, boys and young men to escape.

There may be "good" polygyny happening in traditional non-Western cultures, but I can't but think there is also abuse of unempowered females going on in these religious groups as well. It's all a human rights issue.

However, many US-based cults have international reach. The FLDS has communities in Mexico, Canada and elsewhere, for example.

Girls and young women (and some boys) are routinely, and even ritually abused in these cults, beaten, starved, humiliated, raped, are overworked and undereducated, put in solitary confinement for weeks at a time, and told if they rebel in any way they are devils and are going straight to hell. The list goes on.

We don't want modern polyamory to ever be confused with patriarchal polygamous cults where there is rampant and terrible physical, emotional, financial and sexual abuse going on, including the disgusting sexual abuse of minors, including child marriage, incest, and forced pregnancy. It's a horror that should not be happening in this day and age. Democracy (or even some semblance of it) can never be taken for granted.
 
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but I can't but think there is also abuse of unempowered females going on in these religious groups
It's usually a cultural practice.
We don't want modern polyamory to ever be confused with patriarchal polygamous cults where there is rampant and terrible physical, emotional, financial and sexual abuse going on, including the disgusting sexual abuse of minors, including child marriage, incest, and forced pregnancy. It's a horror that should not be happening in this day and age. Democracy (or even some semblance of it) can never be taken for granted
Those things happen in white countries effectively. While child marriage does occur in other societies, it's not with the understanding that the child is a minor in the same sense we believe it. When a Mormon marries a 12 year old American, they're doing that with the knowledge that in America, 12 year olds are children in school and do not have the liberty of an adult. That's not the same as 12 year olds in all societies. Puberty is often seen as what makes one an adult. There isn't that taboo aspect.

There's nothing wrong with an autonomous adult from the West making a free choice to be polygamous and looking at women who are happy in those arrangements to see if it would be for them. Its not for any of us to impose our western values onto women from other societies and decide that they aren't really content. That's kind of racist.
 
Mod note: we're getting into General Poly Discussion territory here rather than keeping on track with the OP. I suggest you take any further philosophical discussion to that part of the site and focus on answering the OP's queries directly. Cheers.
 
Getting off my soapbox. I find this really upsetting.

Getting back to the topic at hand, what is the point of noting that patriarchal polygamy is traditional in some "non-white countries," in posing the idea that patriarchal polygamy can work in a healthy manner in the US? 12 year olds are not ready for marriage in some countries just because there's a tradition of child marriage. People are fighting against child marriages in those countries too.

I merely want to point out the pitfalls of plural marriage in the US, which can be compounded by isolation and many pregnancies.
 
Getting off my soapbox. I find this really upsetting.

Getting back to the topic at hand, what is the point of noting that patriarchal polygamy is traditional in some "non-white countries," in posing the idea that patriarchal polygamy can work in a healthy manner in the US? 12 year olds are not ready for marriage in some countries just because there's a tradition of child marriage. People are fighting against child marriages in those countries too.

I merely want to point out the pitfalls of plural marriage in the US, which can be compounded by isolation and many pregnancies.
We can continue this on my blog but that's not what I was saying at all. I'm saying look at happy polygamous women in polygamous societies, and find out what the OP as a probably white American women shares in terms of values. Look at why it works for them, and how it works, and wonder if those things are or could be relevant to her.

I happen to know women who are in the West in polygamous marriages and are happy because they get enough fulfilment from their small community here. They don't rely on validation from their wider Western society and are happy to dip in and out of it as needed. These are non-white women who hail from polygamous cultures so the same things apply. Again, not people like the OP.

If anything, I fully expect people like the OP to do said research and realise they have nothing in common with the women value wise, and have little in the way of wider societal support to overcome many of the obstacles they'd see to actually living such a life. Basic things like being able to have the support of your mother. Hard to have that if she thinks your husband is cheating bastard and you accept it.
 
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