Forbidden knowledge

Hi, thanks everyone for the advice. It's been some time since I made the post. Since then, I took the advice of many of you and confronted my wife about her affair.

I wrote a letter and left it for her, knowing I would be back in a few hours and we could speak. This was a way of getting my words out clearly and uninterrupted. I admitted my phone snooping, said it was wrong, and then described the shock and heartbreak I was feeling upon learning about her affair, and her expression of interest in polyamory - conniving with a stranger about how she would bring it up to me.

Her immediate reaction was anger that I had snooped through her phone. I explained that context matters. I was very suspicious, especially after some of the statements she had made in earlier arguments. She said if I wanted to divorce her over this, go ahead, that it was a little bit of fun for her when things were bad between us.

She insisted nothing happened, not even kissing. She said she was flattered by his attention and mentioned that the man's wife had expressed interest in her, as well. That was a shocker! She claims to be open-minded and says polyamory piqued her interest, but she's not sure she really wants that.

I pressed her on why she kept this a secret, if indeed she feels she did nothing wrong. Her answer was confounding: she said she would have told me if things were better between us. So if things were good, she would have sprung this on me? I think that's a lie, and if she did bring it up it would have been void of the most important detail - that her apparent interest in polyamory started with an individual.

I was heartbroken when I found out, heartbroken when I wrote the letter, and am still. However, 24 hours after the letter and our initial discussion, I told her I believe her, that I understand things were bad between us, that her actions are not a levelling of the scale for things I have done wrong, and that I will try and process my emotions and move on.

I also called the guy. It felt good to stand up for myself and my marriage. I told him I knew everything-- the sexting, the hot tub, the scheming behind my back about my wife entering an open relationship with him. I told him he did damage to our marriage and demanded that he stop contacting her. He tried to backpedal and sidestep. I told him enough is enough, f-off, goodbye.

I don't believe they have been in contact with each other since then. I am not a closed-minded or small person, but I believe the polyamory thing in this case was just a way for this guy to seem harmless, as he tried to lure my wife into an affair.

Things are better with my wife and me, but I'm still carrying a lot of hurt, suspicion, and unanswered questions about her infidelity, even if it was an emotional, not a physical affair. I wish these feelings would go away, but I feel like I need her to open up about this whole thing and try to sympathize with what it feels like for me.

In the meantime, I'm doing everything I can to be a good man, a good father, and a good husband. We'll see.
 
Thanks for the update.

How come you didn't do this as a part of the couples counselling? I mean, since you already had one and everything...

Also, good luck with trying to repair your marriage. I hope you reach the healthiest outcome.
 
Thanks for the update.

How come you didn't do this as a part of the couples counselling? I mean, since you already had one and everything...

Also, good luck with trying to repair your marriage. I hope you reach the healthiest outcome.
Hi, thanks for the reply. Why didn't I bring this up in couples counselling? I didn't want to embarrass her in that situation, or appear like I needed someone else in the room to broach the subject. I think it would have gone worse than it did if I sprung it there. I did tell her that I feel strongly this is something we need to address with the marriage counsellor. She didn't agree, but she didn't object either.

Do you think, based on my description, that she does have a desire for polyamory, or was acting impulsively and seeking justification for infidelity? I'm worried that we will work hard to repair things, but then she might step out again and try the same thing. She is very closed off talking about sex and intimacy, so I worry she would pull this without any discussion. That would likely be the end of us.
 
I'm sorry, but you can't expect to be successful at polyamory if you can't talk about sex and emotions openly and sensitively. Closed-off people always fail at poly. Those are the people who would rather sneak around and have affairs. In fact, often those are the people who ENJOY the secrecy/naughty aspect of affairs.

And I personally never understand why you'd pay big bucks to a therapist only to not be open and honest with the therapist about your biggest problems. It just seems like a huge waste of money, and a waste of your time and the therapist's time and skills.
 
Do you think, based on my description, that she does have a desire for polyamory, or was acting impulsively and seeking justification for infidelity?
I don't think we can tell, or you can tell, and I'm not sure she can tell herself. I think most people have the desires that make some of us choose polyamory. That is, almost everyone, including monogamously-inclined folks, will experience attraction to people who aren't their partner. Almost everyone will wonder what it would be like... then pull the brakes at some point, because they don't want to endanger their marriage. Many (most?) people will experience NRE for someone who's not their primary partner at some point in their lives.
Almost everyone will have a craving for novelty and experimentation.
And many people have the actual capacity to build concurrent romantic connections.

For some people, polyamory is an orientation. They feel from a very early age that monogamy makes no sense to them. For most people, it is an OPTION. A relationship style (some people here hate the world lifestyle) to consider.

So, does she feel a desire? I think she felt at least a dozen conflicting desires. I think she considered the option as a way out of a very common conundrum-- loving her husband AND being romantically and/or sexually attracted to someone else at the same time.
 
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She said if I wanted to divorce her over this, go ahead, that it was a little bit of fun for her when things were bad between us.

She insisted nothing happened, not even kissing.

I pressed her on why she kept this a secret if indeed she feels she did nothing wrong. Her answer was confounding: she said she would have told me if things were better between us.

"Nothing" may have happened with Dude, but "something" happened in this marriage. Several damaging things. Things are rocky, and she's off having her bit of fun rather than working on things with you. She told you to go ahead and divorce her. If things were good she would choose honesty and being upfront, so since things are "bad" she's choosing secrecy. Basically, she's blame-shifting, deflecting, and other forms of not taking personal responsibility for how her behavior choices impact you/the marriage. When she behaves like this, how does that help things in the marriage BECOME good?

Is what you call a "good marriage" what she calls a "good marriage"?

I also called the guy. It felt good to stand up for myself and my marriage. I told him I knew everything - the sexting, the hot tub, the scheming behind my back about my wife entering an open relationship with him. I told him he did damage to our marriage and demanded that he stop contacting her. He tried to backpedal and sidestep. I told him enough is enough, f-off, goodbye.

Why do you hold Dude responsible for damages done, but not wife? Isn't she more responsible than Dude, since she's the one actually IN the marriage with you?

Why didn't I bring this up in couples counselling? I didn't want to embarrass her, or appear like I needed someone else in the room to broach the subject. I think it would have gone worse than it did if I sprung it there.

You seem fearful. What does she do to you when she experiences yucky feelings?

What's wrong with talking to her about this with your counselor present? This isn't the mailman or grocery cashier. Isn't this WHY you go to couple counseling, to address things with them present?

What "worse" would have happened if you'd sprung it in counseling? You pay counselors to help you. How are they going to help best if you leave things out?

I did tell her that I feel strongly this is something we need to address with the marriage counsellor. She didn't agree, but she didn't object either.

What's your plan now? To tell the marriage counselor in an individual appointment first, then bring it up at the next couples counseling appointment? Why are you "protecting" her from embarrassment? Isn't it natural consequences, if she steps out on the marriage, and you say in couples counseling that you don't like that behavior?

What's wrong with her feeling whatever she feels at the appointment?

I believe the polyamory thing was just a way of this guy trying to seem harmless, as he tried to lure my wife into an affair.

People don't "get lured" into affairs. They choose to go. I think she's looking to put it on you, like she went because you made the marriage rocky. Or to put it on Dude, like she went because he's a magic man who mesmerized her. Anything but HER taking personal responsibility for her choices.

Do you think that she does have a desire for polyamory, or was acting impulsively and seeking justification for infidelity?

Healthy people don't go, "Well, fine. Divorce me, then. It was really nothing. Nothing actually happened"-- scrambling all over the place.

If YOU want polyamory, you could do it with healthier people than this. You don't sound like you want polyamory with her. You sound like you just want to stop hurting. Could that be true?

I'm worried that we will work hard to repair things, but she might step out again and try the same thing.

Gently... why do YOU want to work hard to repair anything here, when her response is "Well, divorce me, then," when you caught her out? Do you feel safe with someone like that? Why would you want to continue?

You seem fearful that she's going to step out again. Well, what if she does? How many times is your limit before you walk away? You might talk to the counselor about all that.

She is very closed off talking about sex and intimacy, so I worry she would pull this without any discussion. That would likely be the end of us.

It sounds like you basically don't trust her to be honest and upfront with you.

And nope, if she's sexy-talking Dude, she's not entirely "closed off." She just doesn't want to talk about sex things with you.

I think you would be best served scheduling an individual appointment with the counselor and telling them all the things. Talk to your counselor openly and honestly. Get help for yourself. YOU don't have to be closed off with the counselor just because she is.

That would likely be the end of us.

On a certain level, that would stink, because all breakups come with a certain amount of sadness and grief. On another level, maybe it would be freeing. Maybe that's something else to talk to the counselor about in an individual session. Sit with this, though, and weigh it out. I don't know if this helps you contemplate of if you are even ready to think on that.


Galagirl
 
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Healthy people don't go "Well, fine divorce me then. It was really nothing, nothing actually happened" scrambling all over the place.
LoL. People say stuff when upset and fighting. I don't think it's worth attaching too much meaning. It probably means her defenses were up and she didn't see a way to make things peaceful at the moment. It just means the fight was really bad.

...talk to the counselor about in an individual session.
The counseling agreement may not be structured this way. Unless both have individual sessions with the couple's counselor already, it may be necessary to choose a different therapist. Anyway, it's not the therapist's role to triangulate. A session with both people present is the way to go, even if the start of it is "we need to talk about something but wife doesn't agree" - the terapist might be able to navigate this disagreement too.
 
LoL. People say stuff when upset and fighting. I don't think it's worth attaching too much meaning. It probably means her defenses were up and she didn't see a way to make things peaceful at the moment. It just means the fight was really bad.

Anyone can have a bad day and say things they don't mean. But if this is a PATTERN... that's a problem. Harry_Fondue is the one actually there. So Harry has to figure out if this was a one time thing or a pattern. I think that's worthwhile to think about.

Unless both have individual sessions with the couple's counselor already, it may be necessary to choose a different therapist

Entirely possible to change the structure and/or get separate individual therapists. Up to them how they want to approach counseling.

GG
 
Trust your counselor.

Does she have other issues (e.g., ADHD, spectrum, or manic depressive).

Do you have kids?

I am not clear what the marriage issues are that she points out during your arguments.

Is divorce an option for you?

You sound like a rock and a foundation to your marriage. Does she appreciate that as a quality?
 
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