Forgive me, Father, for I have poly-bombed

[EldritchDucky]

Hi. Huh. I’m glad I spent some time reading here first. I’ve made a few mistakes starting off…

I’m 40m, and been in this relationship (marriage) for 20 years. We have some pretty awful mismatches. I was an easy low-stakes attachment for her. I’m kinky and very sexual. My wife Jess is asexual. I thought I could practice my kinks solo indefinitely and that we could meet in the middle for some intercourse every few months, but it was never enough. I told her we needed to fix this part of our relationship, and she started putting in very slow work.

Then, seven months ago, some poly friends of ours invited us out to a lifestyle club to see a side of the world we hadn’t seen. A switch flipped for me, but didn’t for Jess.

The last seven months have been a nightmare for me. I did what a lot of people do: I poly-bombed her. To be clear, since this appears to mean different things to different people, I did a problem-solving flavor of the bomb. I dived deep into learning about ENM, poly, open, swinging, and expanded on my formal knowledge of kink, as it pertains to ENM.

I tried talking to Jess about what I had discovered in the reading, the podcasts, the subreddits, a very welcoming kink Discord server (I admin'ed for it but have since left to work on myself, and I miss that wonderful mess of people every day ), and of course, the polyamory.com threads. I didn’t just declare an identity and claim that “if she really loved me…”. I tried to explain things to Jess in a way I thought would be acceptable and take pressure off her to be everything for me and finally fully support her in her asexuality.

Instead, she doubled down, what I now see as a predictable reaction. Now, she’s “mate guarding," which has made our sex life quite incredible, but I still feel incredibly guilty and the matter still isn’t resolved for me. I really wish one of these early books I'd read explained poly-bombing to me, but I’m not sure if, in my initial anxiety, I would have been in ANY receptive headspace to understand. And I’m fairly certain it wouldn’t have made any difference to Jess.

I know the common wisdom is to end the relationship and rebuild from scratch, but that’s fucking terrifying. We have kids, we love each other, we have a stable life, a house, no carried debt at all, two strong careers. I’d have to end it all to start over with the stigma of breaking up my family. I still don’t know what to do. I don’t know if I want to wait and see if Jess will come around to swinging as a compromise, or if my only hope to experiment and understand what’s changed in me is to call the relationship dead.

I have to admit that I went in hard and fast. I thought I saw a path through the disconnection in our sexual relationship, but I was dead wrong and now all the cards are on the table.

Jess has worked hard to keep it together and didn’t boot me out immediately. She’s said she has accepted that this is a part of me and is willing to live with it… but she can’t accept me acting on it. She’s asking me to wait another ten years, roughly how long it would take to get the kids out of the house, after which we would still be facing a separation, but a more amicable one.

I’ve learned to self-soothe my anxiety after seven solid months of therapy. But some days are harder than others.

(Sidenote: rewind to just before we started trying to reconnect sexually a year and a half ago, before we went to the club-- Jess got frustrated with my chasing dynamic and blew up, and said that maybe I should just get that from someone else. I said “No, no, no!” in the way I had been programmed to by a life of mono-normative expectations. Sometimes I wonder what would have happened if I took her up on that. Probably a disaster, maybe an unexpected balance, I’ll never know.)

 

[Evie]

ouch, rock and a hard place. I don't have kids or a marriage I can't step away from to a greater or lesser extent, so I'm not going to offer advice, but please know I feel for you. You're at the prime of life, imo, and I can see that waiting 10 years would be...unfortunate.

 

[GalaGirl]

Welcome.

I'm sorry to hear about how this happened.

Instead, Jess doubled down, what I now see as a predictable reaction. Now, she’s “mate guarding," which has made our sex life quite incredible, but I still feel incredibly guilty and the matter still isn’t resolved for me.

What does "mate guarding" actually mean? She's threatened, so is putting in lots of effort to share sex with you, so you won't think about making changes? Is she jealous and watching you like a hawk, or something else?

I know the common wisdom is to end the relationship and rebuild from scratch, but that’s fucking terrifying. We have kids, we love each other, we have a stable life, a house, no carried debt at all, two strong careers. And I’d have to end it all to start over with the stigma of breaking up my family. I still don’t know what to do. I don’t know if I want to wait and see if Jess will come around to swinging as a compromise, or if my only hope to experiment and understand what’s changed in me is to call the relationship dead.

Swinging is NOT a compromise. Sex of any kind requires consent. Jess should not have to put out for you to keep you happy. If what she can joyfully give is not enough for you, it's just not enough. Nor should you have to put out for wife to keep her happy. If what you can joyfully give is not enough for her, it's just not enough.

Gently... why is it not okay to let the family CHANGE? You and she changed before. You used to not know each other, then you dated, then got engaged, married, got pregnant, had kids. Eventually, the kids will grow up and move out, you'll retire... Change is always happening.

Families come in all shapes. Right now, neither of you sounds especially happy. What's wrong with changing to a divorced coparenting family, so that the parents can do better, so they can heal and maybe seek more compatible partners later on, and the kids can have happier parents?

What's wrong with still loving each other as coparents and friends, and letting the romantic/sex stuff parts that don't really work here GO?

She's asexual and you are inclined towards kink/poly. At best, you've been coming together to share sex every few months, before this "mate guarding" thing. I'm not sure if that's permanent, or reactionary, or what. But is/was sex every few months enough for you?

She accepts this kinky/poly part of you, but doesn't want you acting on it while married to her. That sounds like what you have BEEN doing.

She wants you to wait to divorce in 10 years, because then the kids will be grown and she'll be more willing to have a peaceful parting. Well, what prevents her from a peaceful parting now? What makes her not willing? Did she give a reason besides the children? Is there illness/death in the family, or a big job change, where it's more like the timing? "Please, let's not plan to divorce in the middle of planning a funeral. Let's wait until X months past that." Or is it something else?

Do you want to clock another decade with a meh sex life? What if it is NOT a peaceful parting? Would it be like you waited 10 years and got a dramatic divorce rather than the promised peaceful one, when you could have just done it sooner, rather than later?

Is she willing to talk it out in couple's counseling? What is needed to do, or prepare to do, to have a peaceful parting NOW?

What do you want to teach your kids-- to subsume themselves to a relationship structure that doesn't fit any more, while struggling on the inside? Or do you want to teach them about healthy divorced coparenting, if they ever have to walk that road as grownups themselves?

I’ve learned to self-soothe my anxiety after seven solid months of therapy. But some days are harder than others.

What are you anxious about, contemplating a divorce? Why is divorce a stigma for you?

Even if Jess doesn't want to do couple's counseling, I think you could talk to your therapist, a neutral party, and maybe "try it on" in your head. Think out loud what divorced life might be like. Weigh the pros and cons.

Maybe this also helps you assess.

Should I Stay or Should I Go?

Feeling unhappy in or unsure about your relationship? Having problems you don't know how to work through, or don't even know if you should? We'll talk you through making these choices, including how-to's on conflict resolution and doing breakups better.

www.scarleteen.com

I know contemplating a big change can sometimes be scary, but that's not a good reason to stay stuck in this. I encourage you to do your thinking.

Maybe, in time, you might want a trial separation-- don't date other people yet, stay married, just stop living together. Maybe you could take apartments in the same complex to make the childcare/coparenting easier, but gently start detangling, just the same.

Take it one step at a time. Talk to your therapist first. That is my suggestion.

Galagirl

 

[EldritchDucky]

You're at the prime of life, imo, and I can see that waiting 10 years would be...unfortunate

Thanks for the sympathy. I've been slowly working on untangling my resentment about having "wasted" the past 20 years and my "youth," and it's never really about that. I didn't figure this out until I did, and it's not that the last 20 years have been misery. I do sincerely love Jess, and we connect on nearly every other part of our life together. My distress is partially rooted in how this harms her and impacts the stability she needs because it took me this long to figure it out. I would have never dragged her into a poly relationship if I knew this was buried in me.

What's that "mate guarding" actually mean? She's threatened so putting in lots of efforts to share sex with you so you won't think about changes?

Thanks for your response. It's helpful to hear from some people with maturity in this space. As much as I love that Discord server I left, it was filled with young kinksters who had trouble relating to my situation. A 20-year relationship of any sort made their heads spin.

Basically, yes. Jess is keeping me sexed-up. And it's actually caused a miraculous change in her. My asexual wife found her version of a sex drive, but she doesn't experience physical pleasure, or at least any sensation she can connect to. She gets satisfaction from seeing me spent, and likes to use a quickie to break up the day when we're both working from home. She's keeping up with my high frequency. She is finding a kink for being a Service Top to me. We've successfully reversed the "chasing dynamic" and she initiates. She even misses sex when we haven't for a few days. We read Emily Nagoski's most excellent "Come As You Are" and have started to accept that her version of a sex drive is real and valid, even if she doesn't experience primary pleasure. So, are we both trying to fuck our way out of our problems? Maybe. It might even work.

To add to that, she's gotten more comfortable in some ENM environments and uses that to scratch my itch. We've been back to that lifestyle club to dance, watch, and have sex in public. It's been one of the most joyfully affirming experiences in my life.

The only problem with that is I'm a generous, noble, selfless person* and our sex life is composed of a diet of selfish pleasure directed at me. That might be some people's heaven. I've worked on my ability to receive fully, but I crave the chance to give. The connotation of this is going to sound completely wrong, but some days it feels like being force-fed sex. That's actually great, because I always wished a partner would meet or surpass my own sex drive. I could even call it my latest kink: being the sex slave to my asexual wife. Objectively speaking, Jess rose to meet the challenge. The one thing I'm looking for is her direct pleasure in the matter, and at this point, I don't know if that's possible.

I want this to be enough. She's giving me everything she has. But in the end, I'm not in her head and I don't know how long she wants to keep this up. Is this a temporary condition? I don't know. She rose to meet the challenge of completing the connection between us, but can she ever find joy in a polyamorous relationship with me? At best, it would probably be mono-poly, and that's even harder to manage than anything else we've discussed.

Another friend of mine came out as being in an ENM marriage in a complete shock to me. They're using ENM to patch some mismatches... and for the most part, they seem to be stable and even actively working on improving on those gaps. Nevertheless, it's not all that rosy and there's some acrimony. He says to enjoy being "mate-guarded" while it lasts. Not the tone I like to hear, but change is constant, indeed.

*Sorry, I don't mean to build myself up like that without supporting it. That's what people tell me about me, and how I got into this situation.

Swinging is NOT a compromise.

Sex of any kind requires consent. Jess should not have to put out for you to keep you happy. If what she can joyfully give is not enough for you, it's just not enough. Nor should you have to put out for wife to keep her happy. If what you can joyfully give is not enough for her, it's just not enough.

I can appreciate the distinctions here. And forgive me, but I don't mean to conflate forms of ENM (though my thoroughly uninhibited best friend would start eye rolling at all the labeled buckets). I'm just stuck on being unable to identify what I want. As a kinkster, I'm a serial experimentalist and I've been doing that for a long time. Part of the problem is that I ran out of experiments I could do solo. However, my typical approach to understanding this interest would impact my wife. I can't experiment with ENM without involving her, by definition.

But I think my above shows we're finding some sort of joyful groove that works for us for now. I get what you mean, that everyone involved should be joyfully giving.

What's wrong with still loving each other as coparents and friends? And letting the romantic/sex stuff parts that don't really work here GO?

Romance isn't the problem. Being best friends isn't the problem. Being coparents isn't the problem. It really comes down to the sexuality and kink, both of which are large parts of who I am. Jess has a hard time connecting to anything other than vanilla sex, as above. My confirmed kinks are a bit harder for her to connect to and represent soft limits for her.

We are in couples therapy now and I see an individual therapist. Both are ENM friendly; the couple's therapist has been on her own colorful poly journey, and the individual therapist is a specialist on LGBTQIA+, BDSM, and kink (and a really lovable guy who has taught me a lot about deep platonic love).

But in the end, we may choose to separate. I mostly want everyone to have their chance to speak their truth in the matter and feel like they gave it everything they wanted to give. In the end, I want any split to be amicable and positive. All I can do is work on myself and continue to live by my core values of honesty and sharing. If that leads me to separate, I'm committed to configuring our new normal for everyone's benefit and to preserve the love and what works.

 

[EldritchDucky]

I'm going to break this out into a separate reply, since it's quite a distinct departure from the rest of my reply. (At the suggestion, I'll nickname some more. Jess=wife, Sean=best friend, Katie=best friend's wife.)

She accepts this kinky/poly part of you but doesn't want you acting on it while married to her. Sounds like that's what you have BEEN doing though.

I might be losing the point your trying to impart, but yes, that's the current situation, except Jess is practically fine with every kink I could engage with solo, as long as I am doing so safely. What I mean is, Jess can accept that I've either had this buried in me or that I've changed. Whichever that is doesn't quite matter to her. Jess is able to lay down her boundaries and I can keep them, or choose to end the relationship. It's actually quite simple and she has been very direct. In a way, we did dissolve our old agreements and craft new ones. They just weren't ones that let me physically or romantically connect to anyone else yet.

I'm finding keeping Jess's boundaries while still feeling valid is possible. Tonight, I'm running a bit of an experiment on that...

Background: My best friend Sean was my intro to ENM. I was his best man at their wedding. Jess is close friends with my best friends' wife Katie, and our kids love each other, too. All together, the four/eight of us form a warm, fuzzy extended family "ring" between us that positively fills my heart.

Experiment: I'm having a friend-date with Katie, at Sean's suggestion, in the vein of what I consider "polyplatonic." Katie is about as kinky as I am, but we both have stated boundaries, and I'm totally fine with the platonic nature of the situation. I'm a person who loves deeply, and I'm looking forward to getting to know Katie better. I already know we have several things in common on a psychological level. I'm also looking to see if deepening this relationship scratches the poly itch I have and/or satisfies my need to have a kinky friend. At the same time, I'm hoping to help Katie understand Sean better, as an outside observer.

In doing this, I have been paying special attention to Jess, to be sure she's okay with all this. I came to Jess as soon as the idea was floated and started negotiating. To a bit of surprise, she wasn't immediately repulsed by the idea, despite what we've been dealing with. I've agreed with Jess that leaning away from calling this a "date" is for the best, and we've settled on this being a hangout with a drinking buddy. We patterned Jess's expectations on an ex-GF of mine we're both still very close with. We've negotiated the time, I've followed up on Jess's feelings during this, and I've shown I care. Jess has every opportunity and explicit prompting to pull the plug and keep me home tonight. Ultimately, Jess trusts me as an intrinsically honest person. I discussed the boundaries with Katie and everyone involved agrees. I just want to check in with Sean on whether he has any conversational boundaries.

 

[Magdlyn]

I'm going to break this out into a separate reply, since it's quite a distinct departure from the rest of my reply.

I might be losing the point you're trying to impart, but yes, that's the current situation, except that my wife Jess is practically fine with every kink I could engage with solo, as long as I am doing so safely. What I mean is, she can accept that I've either had this buried in me or that I've changed. Whichever that is doesn't quite matter to her. She is able to lay down her boundaries and I can keep them or choose to end the relationship. It's actually quite simple. and she's been very direct. In a way, we did dissolve our old agreements and craft new ones, just not the ones that let me physically or romantically connect to anyone else yet.

I'm finding keeping her boundaries while still feeling valid is possible. Tonight, I'm running a bit of an experiment on that...

Background: My best friend (Bart) was my intro to ENM. I was his best man at his wedding, my wife (Jess) is close friends with Bart's wife Katie, and our kids love each other, too. All together, the four/eight of us form a warm, fuzzy extended family "ring" between us that positively fills my heart.

Experiment: I'm having a friend-date with Katie, at Bart's suggestion, in the vein of what I consider "polyplatonic". Katie is about as kinky as I am, but we both have stated boundaries, and I'm totally fine with the platonic nature of the situation. I'm a person who loves deeply, and I'm looking forward to getting to know Katie better. I already know we have several things in common. I'm also looking to see if deepening this relationship scratches the poly itch I have and/or satisfies my need to have a kinky friend. At the same time, I'm hoping to help her understand Bart better, as an outside observer.

In doing this, I have been paying special attention to Jess, to be sure she's okay with all this. I came to her as soon as the idea was floated and started negotiating. In a bit of surprise, Jess wasn't immediately repulsed by the idea, despite what we've been dealing with. I've agreed with her that leaning away from calling this a "date" is for the best. We've settled on this being a hangout with a drinking buddy. We patterned her expectations on an ex-gf of mine we're still very close with. We've negotiated the time, I've followed up on her feelings during this, and I've shown I care. She has every opportunity and explicit prompting to pull the plug and keep me home tonight. Ultimately, she trusts me as an intrinsically honest person. I have discussed the boundaries with Bart.

Could we go with some nicknames, as I added above, instead of "wife," "best friend," and "best friend's wife"? It's much easier for your readers to follow along with names instead of generic terms or initials.

 

[EldritchDucky]

Could we go with some nicknames, as I added above, instead of "wife," "best friend," and "best friend's wife"? It's much easier for your readers to follow along with names instead of generic terms or initials.

Oh duh!... How mononormative of me!

 

[Magdlyn]

In reply to your latest strategy, I would caution about your notion that your "not a date" date with Katie is to be so awesomely platonic. There's a possibility of doing kink together at some point? I would think that those activities could release some powerful feelings in you that have long been bottled up. NRE, at the very least, could overwhelm you.

 

[EldritchDucky]

In reply to your latest strategy, I would caution about your notion that your "not a date" date with Jane is to be so awesomely platonic. There's a possibility of doing kink together at some point? I would think that those activities could release some powerful feelings in you that have long been bottled up. NRE, at the very least, could overwhelm you.

Thank you. That's a helpful challenge.

The answer is, anything is possible, but most is improbable. I really don't know the future. Non-sexual kink with anyone outside the marriage is off the table, too. But Katie (the pseudonym I chose for BF's wife) has made it clear I'm in the brother-zone, which is totally fine by me, at this junction. Maybe we will connect on something unexpected and something else will bloom. I'm not counting on that. But yes, I'm preparing. NRE is something I have to guard against, specifically as a preoccupied-attacher-in-recovery. Then again, we might meet up and nothing changes at all. That's more what I'm counting on.

Whatever the case, I'm an extraordinarily honest person, and anything that comes up will get a cold cutoff, while Jess (my wife) and I discuss what to do with it. Her boundaries are largely centered on romantic, physical, and sexual connection, so my redlines are pretty clear. Jess knows I'm an extraordinarily extroverted person with a skill for getting deep inside other people.

 

[Magdlyn]

I'll re-edit to use the nicknames you chose.

 

[GalaGirl]

Thank you for more info.

We are in couples therapy now and I see an individual therapist. Both are ENM friendly; the couple's therapist has been on her own colorful poly journey, and the individual therapist is a specialist on LGBTQIA+, BDSM, and kink (and a really lovable guy who has taught me a lot about deep platonic love).

But in the end, we may choose to separate. I mostly want everyone to have their chance to speak their truth in the matter and feel like they gave it everything they wanted to give. In the end, I want any split to be amicable and positive. All I can do is work on myself and continue to live by my core values of honesty and sharing. If that leads me to separate, I'm committed to configuring our new normal for everyone's benefit and to preserve the love and what works.

In a way, we did dissolve our old agreements and craft new ones, just not ones that let me physically or romantically connect to anyone else yet.

At this time, the bottom line sounds like the marriage agreements are basically monogamous, no other partners, only Jess.

You sound like you are doing all you can do at this time at couple's counseling with Jess to consider changing the agreements so you (and Jess) can seek other romantic/sex partners ethically, with all people consenting to practicing an open marriage. "Considering changes" doesn't mean "go ahead."

You sound like you would accept it if the counseling topic needed to change from, "How could we do this? Would we do this?" to "We need to part ways. " You are willing to divorce as peacefully as possible, if that ends up being the case. So, keep on keeping on.

To a bit of surprise, she wasn't immediately repulsed by the idea, despite what we've been dealing with. I've agreed with Jess that leaning away from calling this a "date" is for the best, and we've settled on this being a hangout with a drinking buddy.

Why would she be surprised or repulsed at the idea of you going out with a friend? Why are you surprised she's okay with it? You DO have other friends who you sometimes hang out with, right?

I'm having a friend-date with Katie, at Sean's suggestion, in the vein of what I consider "polyplatonic". Katie is about as kinky as I am, but we both have stated boundaries and I'm totally fine with the platonic nature of the situation. I'm a person who loves deeply, and I'm looking forward to getting to know Katie better.

I think you could be clear to yourself and to Jess that this is only a friend hangout with Katie. You sound like you were already clear with Katie. But be firm. For now, Katie's calling you a "brother zone" person. But later, if Katie asked you out on a kink date, or poly date, or whatever date, besides hanging out as friends, or asks you to help her and her spouse do some kink, you would turn Katie down, because your marriage agreements don't include that, right?

Because you love hard/deeply, you would not get carried away, right? You have no interest in more. At this time, you're looking at FRIENDSHIPS with people you can talk about kink and poly with. You are not seeking a dating partner. You would not ask Katie out on a date yourself until after you and Jess are divorced, right?

I think you have enough going on without that complication. Plus, Katie is your friend's wife. If you are short on friends and building community, you can focus on that and not risk losing both friendships with Katie and Sean.

I'm not saying it is happening here, but be VERY careful if Sean and Katie are unicorn-hunting you, or if they seem "too good to be true."

Keep working on your things in therapy to reduce your load. Don't pile on more.

Galagirl

 

[Evie]

Do you come from a place where it's taboo for men and women to be friends? I know there are places in the US where this is basically forbidden as it's expected that there will always be infidelity arise from it. Going out with Katie is obviously a Big Deal for you and Jess. Is this a religious thing?

 

[EldritchDucky]

At this time, the bottom line sounds like the marriage agreements are basically monogamous. No other partners. Only Jess.

Mostly. I'm willing to work within the boundaries of not going flirty, romantic, physical, or sexual, and distancing in case the others are offered. But deep relationships are fine. There isn't really a distinction between male and female friends, for example.

You sound like you are doing all you can do at this time at couple counseling with Jess to consider changing the agreements so you (and Jess) could seek other romantic/sex partners ethically.

I'm big on the ethics. I have to be honest, as honest as my awareness of the situation, my feelings, other's feelings, etc., will allow me to be. And yes, I have every intention to support Jess in seeking her own romantic or sexual partners, if she so chooses. She really doesn't have an interest, being an introverted asexual, with little risk and drama tolerance. But I've made it clear I will leave that door open to her if she wants to negotiate. Maybe she will connect with a fellow artist or writer one day and decide to take me up on it, if we're still together.

You sound like you would accept it if the counseling topic needs to change from "how could we do this? Would we do this?" to "we need to part ways. " You are willing to divorce as peacefully as possible if that ends up being the case.

Yes. It's a shift I've been working on preparing for, while I give our relationship every opportunity. I've been working on my insecure attachments, bolstering my sense of self, and getting more used to being present in the moment and with myself. I'm also giving myself every opportunity to decide that maybe this isn't important enough to me and naturally settle back into mono as a personal preference.

Why would she be surprised or repulsed at the idea of you going out with a friend?

Why are you surprised she's okay with it? You DO have other friends, that you sometimes hang out with?

Do you come from a place where it's taboo for men and women to be friends? I know there are places in the US where this is basically forbidden, as it's expected that there will always be infidelity arise from it. Going out with Katie is obviously a Big Deal for you and Jess. Is this a religious thing?

Mostly because of how Katie and Sean factored into flipping my switch. I do have other friends, but not many female friends. I had worries that Jess would see this an an encroachment, if not a violation of her boundaries, given recent issues. We are not religious. I was just worried she'd have an anxious reaction. At the same time, I think she might have just made peace with the idea that we could separate some day, and is prepared for any way it comes about.

To go further on that point, the night at the club, when I experienced this change, another friend flirted with me, possibly assuming I was part of their scene and open. I wouldn't propose going on a date with her. That would be difficult for Jess to accept, since we don't have a preexisting friendship, outside of attending a few boardgame nights at the same time.

But be firm. For now Katie calls you a "brother zone" person. But later, if Katie asked you out on a kink date, or poly date, or whatever date, besides hanging out as friends, or she asks you to help her and her spouse do some kink, you would turn Katie down because your marriage agreements don't include that -- right?

Another thing I'm working on is my porous boundaries. Accordingly, I've already decided my responses to a few scenarios to set the tone.

If Jess pops up in the next few hours and says, "You know what, I've changed my mind. Katie is on my safe-list. Do whatever you please," then I'd say, "I have already set my boundaries for today and I won't change them on a whim. We can discuss that proposal in therapy, but I don't think just before we hang out is an appropriate time to spring that on me." That's all-important, because we agreed that any ENM negotiation would occur in therapy. I have similar personal rules in place for the outings we make to clubs: no boundary changes in the middle or day of.

If Katie turns similarly, I'll remind her of the boundaries we agreed on, both hers, mine, and Jess's.

If they're both talking right now and work together to make both things happen, I'll still hold my ground.

I know that's saying a lot, that I'd laugh in the face of temptation, when I might not have a full blood supply to my brain, but I'm committed, despite the rocky start, that if my relationship with Jess ever opens up without breaking, that it's going to be done the right way.

Not saying it is happening here... but be VERY careful if Sean and Katie are unicorn-hunting you.

Me... a unicorn. I'd tell you thanks for the laugh, but I really don't know for sure. I might know something, but it's not relevant, and thinking about it isn't useful to the present situation, other than to be peripherally aware of it. In fact, if it were a topic that came up, I'd have to declare it off limits.

 

[kdt26417]

Greetings Blaincorrous,
Welcome to our forum. Please feel free to lurk, browse, etc.

I'm not sure poly-bombing is the reason why Jess doubled down, the mere mention of poly to her might have sufficed. In any case, it sounds like you have done quite a bit of introspection, and you are not rushing into anything. That is smart and admirable. I hope you and Jess are able to work things out so you and the kids can all be happy.

Sincerely,
Kevin T., "official greeter"

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[EldritchDucky]

Greetings Blaincorrous,
Welcome to our forum. Please feel free to lurk, browse, etc.

I'm not sure poly-bombing is the reason why Jess doubled down, the mere mention of poly to her might have sufficed. In any case, it sounds like you have done quite a bit of introspection, and you are not rushing into anything. That is smart and admirable. I hope you and Jess are able to work things out so you and the kids can all be happy.

Sincerely,
Kevin T., "official greeter"

Thank you, Mr. Official-Greeter. Are you by any chance affiliated with the Long Island Official-Greeters?...

No, not everything I've done over the recent months has been smart, admirable, or not rushing. From what I hear about introspection and despite the volumes of poly and ENM advice, practically no one is birthed into this world equipped for it and everyone makes mistakes. I can only hope to put in the work, heal from these mistakes, and get back to baseline. From there, I'm hoping to give Jess time to see the possibilities of how we could reconfigure, whether together or separately. I don't want to lose the love between us, no matter what that looks like.

You're probably right. The initial discussions had the effect of a wake-up call to Jess, as she apparently tries to avoid reconfiguring to poly. And I'm looking at this by imagining it hasn't done anything good for my odds of a successful, amicable, and stable conversion, as rare as that already is. We're both tugging on opposite ends of the rope trying to drag the other over the gap, and the gap would have to get smaller for us to have any common ground to stand on with our one good leg... oy... okay, I'm going on a metaphor diet...

 

[kdt26417]

I haven't heard of the Long Island Official-Greeters.

 

[EldritchDucky]

I'm not saying it is happening here, but be VERY careful if Sean and Katie are unicorn-hunting you, or if they seem "too good to be true."

I brought up your comment to Sean as a humorous aside.

He hesitated enough to set off a flag. I'm actually a little flattered...

 

[Magdlyn]

It's been a month. You had your "not a date" with Katie? How did that go? Have there been more friend dates?

Were you getting flirty vibes from her and/or Sean, to make the "joke"?

He hesitated, as if they had been talking about you as a possible sexual partner, in fantasy, if nothing else. You're flattered. Now what?

 

[EldritchDucky]

It's been a month. You had your "not a date" with Katie? How did that go? Have there been more friend dates?

Were you getting flirty vibes from her and/or Sean, to make the "joke"?

He hesitated, as if they had been talking about you as a possible sexual partner, in fantasy, if nothing else. You're flattered. Now what?

They're going through their own rough patch. Getting involved with either or both would be fun... but really messy and that's even assuming it didn't violate agreements with Jess. (In fact, the messiness would likely violate our agreements on its own.)

I do a lot of living in hypothetical space. I'm mostly using this as a training exercise to think about the right thing to do if Jess and I were open. It's how I'm using these situations to experience the personal growth of being non-mono while stuck on the in-theory or curious phases. Not nearly as fun, for sure...

I'm a friend to both Sean and Katie, and I hear from both about how they're relating to each other. It's clear I don't need to inject myself between them. I know things about how everyone in our platonicule relates to everyone else that I have to keep under my hat. I just wish everyone would communicate and take responsibility for their feelings more openly instead of self-sabotaging and stonewalling. They're all supposed to be better and more experienced with this shit than I am. Then again, I'm the open-hearted extrovert that knows how to connect to people and crack open their shells, so I'm naturally the conduit for feelings they should be sharing with each other.

Sometimes the phrase "thera-throuple" rolls through my mind in a humorous half-fantasizing manner, but that quickly refines into the sage wisdom that "bringing a third into your troubled marriage isn't going to save it". Odd to have been processing that thought in my own marriage and also as the hypothetical third. I COULD help them connect, start processing, and respark things between them. We COULD make a really interesting triad (or quad if Jess were up to it), but it's not my job to solve their problems. Bringing me in, even with the force of my personality to stabilize things, would be unpredictable. But again, that's all hypothetical and an academic exercise at this point.

Katie and I are scheduling another hang, but I need to put it off for a little while. I'm not getting flirty from Katie, except as far as our casual banter goes as mutual kinky gutter dwellers. Just talking and sharing with her is a fulfilling experience, and I don't have to make it physical, romantic, or sexual to get that need met from her.

I don't really get flirty from Sean either, but I have considered it. We do have a great time together and we've got a hangout of our own coming up.

And I would be remiss if I didn't take stock of my Old Relationship Energy: Jess and I have hard conversations, but we are closer than ever and it's the fucking best. We're talking frankly about things and make regular progress on everything, from being more intimate and vulnerable, to better vanilla sex, to exploring BDSM, to talking about opening up one day. I will say Jess has expressed that she's uncomfortable with the closeness that Katie and I are developing, but she says she's willing to own her own feelings and let the hangouts proceed. I just need to own MY feelings and regulate how I come back from those hangouts.