help me make sense of this

BathedInSalt

New member
I'm trying to make sense of some things, but I need help picking them apart. I need a good talk-think with people who know what I'm talking about. thank you in advance.

I'm seeing MyDate fairly often, coming up on our 5th date.
Here's what bothers me about that sentence: "fairly often" what does that even mean? Is once a week often? Is it often enough for me?
I'm trying to figure out what I need in a relationship to feel bonded, to feel connection growing.
I'm trying to figure out what resources I have to date: time, money

"5th date": why am I counting? why do I feel the more time we spend together the more I "owe" him? (do I really think this? It's definitely lurking back there) I understand this is unhealthy, I'm pretty sure this is monogamy conditioning relationship escalator stuff. I don't want to feel obligation. I want to feel what's true to me.

The situation with BlueEyes hurt my heart. (fell HARD for a mono guy not down with poly)
I don't typically wall off my heart after I experience pain (not that I'm aware of). I'm typically brave at being vulnerable, knowing that I will most likely get hurt, knowing that pain can be part of it. I'm wondering if choosing how much something hurts me is more up to me than I think or if that's also putting up walls. Or are those walls boundaries?

Should I have started dating before feeling "over" BlueEyes? Is that fair to MyDate?

I have many questions for MyDate. We have yet to have one of those "what are we" talks. I'm wondering if that's something I need to do? I'm wondering if I'm "too serious" about this dating and relating business and if it would be healthy to be more easy going. Wondering if "intensity" is a personality trait or something that will change over time. I think I just need some points for triangulation from MyDate so I'm not floating in space and I do intend on asking him.

If partners can't handle my intensity then they can't handle me? Is that a boundary I can set? Like a take it or leave it kinda situation? For reasonable things, like healthy personality traits.

Sex: it's meaning has changed several times over the course of my life. It's so loaded with what I was raised to believe about it (strict Christian upbringing), what I came to think ( I'll only sleep with people who love me) to having sex for fun with people I new cared about me but weren't "in love" with me or had any kind of commitment to me. I will admit that I've never been so careful about having sex as I am now, I don't mean in a safe sex kinda way, but in an emotionally safe kinda way. I'll try to explain: Neither my husband nor I have had sex with anyone else yet. I'm afraid Dean will get hurt, more hurt than he knows and will withdraw from me. Clam up.

If I sleep with MyDate I will feel closer to him, that's just what will happen.
Sex is a sign of affection to me and if affection becomes that intimate I will feel things in my heart.

Sex is also just for fun, but never just for fun with someone I already have feelings for (other than lust). I'm not saying sex isn't mostly for fun with my committed partner because it is, but it's also not without emotional bonding like it has been for me with just friends.

For these reasons I have a couple thoughts:
What if I have sex with MyDate, become more bonded to him, Dean freaks out and clams up? What kind of heartache have I opened us all up for?

I need to know what sex means to MyDate.

I think I just figured out why I'm more interested in having sex with the poly tall fireman I've been chatting up: There'a an amount of caring about the other's well being, but mostly a ton of chemistry and lust......because I can have sex with that person and not open my heart to them. That can be just for fun. That's a situation where Dean and I don't have to navigate me having real feelings for someone else.

Sex with someone I'm developing feelings for is scary. Is it just because I want to avoid heartache?

I have been giving thought to the end of relationships, they all have them. It makes sense that some relationships are shorter than others, but that they aren't any less important or quality. I'm shifting my perspective to that because it makes sense, but my heart has to catch up.

Do I need Dean to be ready for me to have sex with my partners before I have sex with them? How does that remove autonomy from me and consent from my partner? Now my current partner (MyDate) is fully aware of where Dean and I are at in our poly transition from mono and I can talk to MyDate so as long as that's happening then he can make his own decisions and it's all cool? Is it up to Dean to deal with the things that twinge him? I want to say no, that I should change my behavior to provide him space to work out his insecurities, but is that true?
Is this a negotiation/boundary/rule thing?

Dean and I agree that we want to get to a place where we are free to navigate our other relationships as we see fit. We do trust one another, we trust in our relationship. There are still many unknowns, we are still learning. The unknowns are what will our reactions be, gut feelings.

He's still trying to figure out what to do while I'm on a date, am I even being fair bringing up sex with others? Of course if I felt it was going to be way out of left field I wouldn't have brought it up.

Here's something I'm coming to grips with: I like MyDate, like...like like him....sex will complicate things in my heart. I feel the need be honest with him about that.
I don't love everything about him, he doesn't push all the right buttons, but I like to see his smile, his voice on the phone makes my heart warm, I find myself thinking of him more often each week, I look forward to our dates, we have chemistry. I do want to express my affection physically.
Do I need to like everything about him as long as I don't hate anything about him? Does he need to push all the right buttons? Is this leftover thinking from trying to find "the one"? How is this also not piecing together a "frankenpartner"?

I didn't mean to attach myself to the first nice poly guy that came along, could that be what's happened and am I ok with that?

Logistically I do not have the time or money to date more than one other person right now, do I want that person to be MyDate? I'm investing in relationships with Dean, SoulSister, my kids, myself, and my numerous friends.

Is my perspective flawed? Should I even be dating?

What am I doing?
What. am. I. doing.


p.s. happy eclipse, it's starting to look pretty neat here
 
Hi BIS,

It sounds to me like you are growing a relationship with MyDate, and experiencing some normal doubts and questions. Do you think you're overthinking? Are you able to just enjoy the journey? What about Dean, how will you know whether he is ready (at any given moment) for you to have sex with MyDate? Does Dean need to know when it happens? Does he need you to announce it? What about MyDate, is he ready for sex, does he want to go there at this point? Are you questioning your relationship with him before giving the relationship a chance to just be?

What kinds of questions can we forum members ask that would actually help? I only ask a few questions off the top of my head.

Regards,
Kevin T.
 
I don't mean to "yell" in all caps but it was easiest to answer you this way....

Hi BIS,

It sounds to me like you are growing a relationship with MyDate, and experiencing some normal doubts and questions. PHEW

Do you think you're overthinking? ALWAYS, ITS HOW I DO

Are you able to just enjoy the journey? YES, I THINK SO. IT'S JUST OUR FIRST CONSCIOUS DIVE INTO POLY SO FOR THAT REASON EVERYTHING FEELS HEAVIER

What about Dean, how will you know whether he is ready (at any given moment) for you to have sex with MyDate? I DON'T KNOW, WILL HE EVEN KNOW? I MEAN I'M OK WITH HIM SEEING OTHERS AND SLEEPING WITH THEM, BUT WE DON'T SHARE THE SAME INSECURITIES.

Does Dean need to know when it happens? NOPE, BUT I WANT TO GET TO A PLACE WHERE I CAN JUST BE FREE TO RELATE HOW I WANT TO

Does he need you to announce it? NOPE, BUT I BET DEAN WILL ASK

What about MyDate, is he ready for sex, does he want to go there at this point?YES
Are you questioning your relationship with him before giving the relationship a chance to just be? ABSOLUTELY.

What kinds of questions can we forum members ask that would actually help? I only ask a few questions off the top of my head. ANY QUESTIONS ARE GREAT, THE MORE BRAINS THE BETTER. I WAS HAVING SUCH A HARD TIME MAKING LINEAR THOUGHTS FROM ALL THIS MESS.

Regards,
Kevin T.
 
Sounds like Dean's readiness (or lack thereof) is the biggest issue here, or one of the biggest. You should probably have more conversations with him on this topic (the topic of you having sex with others), he needs to think and express himself and hypothetical scenarios might seem less threatening to him.

Just some thoughts
 
Sounds like Dean's readiness (or lack thereof) is the biggest issue here, or one of the biggest. You should probably have more conversations with him on this topic (the topic of you having sex with others), he needs to think and express himself and hypothetical scenarios might seem less threatening to him.

Just some thoughts


Yes, I'm not in that space where I'm free to relate to people how I see fit yet and I want to be.
I'm assuming this takes time to get to from monogamy?
 
You sound like you are jumping in too fast after BlueEyes. You are not over that experience and cannot be fully present for the experience of dating MyDate. You have doubts.

Ergo "Should I be dating now?" is not a "joyous yes" sounding things to me. Keep discernment simpler on yourself. Anything less than a "joyous yes" is a "Working No."

Yes! I would LOVE to! Will bells on! = The only YES.
Yes, but I wish that = working no
Yes, but what about = working no
No = working no
Hell NO! = working no


So stop dating MyDate. It's not that far in. You could date MyDate to date MyDate. Not date MyDate to be the bandaid for BlueEyes. Spend some time on your own for a while.

Perhaps MyDate is a "Good potential, but not at this time" kinda person. Sometimes that happens. Could revisit it later when you are healed.

Galagirl
 
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Thank you both so much.

These are the sort of inner ramblings I'd work out with a dear friend, but I only have one dear friend who's poly and I told her I wouldn't treat her as a tour guide :)

A coupe things:
My therapist told me today that I will know if I'm overthinking if I get so lost in thought that it gets in the way of my responsibilities. That's not happening, I'm just a thinker. Thinking doesn't get in my way of taking action either.

I do however see the need for discernment to be made simple, that's a good thing I'll be remembering often.
Simplicity. Duh.
 
Hi BIS,

Definitely keep it simple if you can. Such as filtering out what are the most important things to consider, the biggest issues. Some issues will take care of themselves if the bigger issues are taken care of.

It's good that you are seeing a therapist. That will help.

Regards,
Kevin T.
 
The first part of this post I'd say you're doing a tad bit of over thinking but I wouldn't say that's a bad thing because we see an awful lot of leaping without looking so good for you. The only thing I'd say to that is are you truly happy and having fun as a result ?


Sex: it's meaning has changed several times over the course of my life. It's so loaded with what I was raised to believe about it (strict Christian upbringing), what I came to think ( I'll only sleep with people who love me) to having sex for fun with people I new cared about me but weren't "in love" with me or had any kind of commitment to me. I will admit that I've never been so careful about having sex as I am now, I don't mean in a safe sex kinda way, but in an emotionally safe kinda way. I'll try to explain: Neither my husband nor I have had sex with anyone else yet. I'm afraid Dean will get hurt, more hurt than he knows and will withdraw from me. Clam up.

If I sleep with MyDate I will feel closer to him, that's just what will happen.
Sex is a sign of affection to me and if affection becomes that intimate I will feel things in my heart.

Sex is also just for fun, but never just for fun with someone I already have feelings for (other than lust). I'm not saying sex isn't mostly for fun with my committed partner because it is, but it's also not without emotional bonding like it has been for me with just friends.

For these reasons I have a couple thoughts:
What if I have sex with MyDate, become more bonded to him, Dean freaks out and clams up? What kind of heartache have I opened us all up for?

.........
Do I need Dean to be ready for me to have sex with my partners before I have sex with them? How does that remove autonomy from me and consent from my partner? Now my current partner (MyDate) is fully aware of where Dean and I are at in our poly transition from mono and I can talk to MyDate so as long as that's happening then he can make his own decisions and it's all cool? Is it up to Dean to deal with the things that twinge him? I want to say no, that I should change my behavior to provide him space to work out his insecurities, but is that true?
Is this a negotiation/boundary/rule thing?

Dean and I agree that we want to get to a place where we are free to navigate our other relationships as we see fit. We do trust one another, we trust in our relationship. There are still many unknowns, we are still learning. The unknowns are what will our reactions be, gut feelings.

He's still trying to figure out what to do while I'm on a date, am I even being fair bringing up sex with others? Of course if I felt it was going to be way out of left field I wouldn't have brought it up.


IMO an open marriage, a poly marriage imply freedom to act on attractions and chemistry while dating. Sex is a natural outgrowth of that. I'm quite sure Dean understands that. You second guessing is capacity to understand what he's agreed to or his possible reaction is nice from an empathetic point of view but might be inaccurate.


FWIW .....to me it seem silly/ crazy to have 2 people who are dating and being physically intimate just short of PIV sex. IMO that's a very low logic hurdle for Dean to jump. Desire is there , chemistry is there, opportunity is there the only thing stopping it is some arbitrary nonsense / baggage from an outside player.

Also this is a full contact sport feelings are going to get hurt I think it's impossible to think of every possible scenario with a zero pain outcome. Not going to happen. Go with best practices and work from there....relax and have fun.



p.s. happy eclipse, it's starting to look pretty neat here

Were you in the perfect path zone ? I had a client that drove 9hrs and spent big money on hotel rooms, etc , etc for this :D
 
The only thing I'd say to that is are you truly happy and having fun as a result ?
Were you in the perfect path zone ?

Yes I am truly happy and having fun. I actually cried hard Sunday night out of happiness. It was amazingly ridiculous. I've never felt so loved in all my life. Dean sees me and still enthusiastically chooses me. In my most passionate roller coaster soul mate of relationships there were still things about me I couldn't speak. This is the opposite of that.
I am happy and having fun :)
Even the heavy thinking is fun to me.

We were at 80%, pretty magical when looking at the crescent shadows dancing on the ground from the light streaming through the trees.
 
My friends who've mostly seen my linear-thinking side -- very precise, well-timed, clean-lined -- look baffled when I pull up some totally intuitive leap from my unconscious. The ones who mostly know my "hippie" abstract side get a little frightened-looking when they see me get my metaphorical teeth into solving a really interesting problem.

Sometimes, a ball of snakes is just going to tend to be a ball of snakes. Certainly, trying to make them slither rank-&-file is a bit much to expect. ;)

I get the feeling that trying to impose nice clean Order upon the complexity in your head is only adding to the chaos & and the anxiety -- note that word.
I'd say you're doing a tad bit of over thinking but I wouldn't say that's a bad thing
Actually (as occurred to me hours after reading), what I'm seeing here looks more like racing thoughts, & (IME) they're NEVER good, just different consistencies of sewage. By "racing thoughts" I mean
the rapid thought patterns that often occur in manic, hypomanic, or mixed episodes.

While racing thoughts are most commonly described in people with bipolar disorder and sleep apnea, they are also common with anxiety disorders, OCD, and other psychiatric disorders such as attention deficit hyperactivity disorder.

Racing thoughts are also associated with sleep deprivation, hyperthyroidism, and the use of amphetamines.
You cannot solve every potential problem in advance -- that'd be like avoiding chess until you figure out how you will respond to every possible move no matter what pieces are on the board. OUTCOME: either you will never play chess again, or you'll jump back into play & be repeatedly crushed because you've got ten voices screaming in your head & THEY can't even agree on your next best move. :(

Causes of racing thoughts can be really stupid-simple. I knew a guy who got a better mattress & solved his problem. Another started taking iodide pills. Someone online called it "the waiting-for-Santa-Clause problem": overstimulation because some Really Great Stuff was happening or about to happen.

Like NRE, it's a symptom, not the problem itself... but it's best to relax & not let it take over your brain.

You CAN pause while you figure out your personal plan of action, then run that past the people you feel will be most impacted (positive, negative, neutral).

You CAN decide what your -- as in YOU, acting as an individual --what your next forward step will be, without fear as to what the step AFTER that is going to be. If you step into a blank corner, then simply step back out & make a different choice. Learn from the missteps; share what you learned.

If there are people near you who you feel are waiting for any chance to punish you for making an honest error, then get them out of your life, period, ASAP. Once the suckage is gone, explore without fear -- your errors will be fewer AND less costly if you can make them without pressure from others.

PRESCRIPTION: more time, by yourself, in a quiet, calmly-lit space. Other than a music-only device, no electronics whatever. I'd recommend two half-hour sessions per day, but you'd be surprised what a difference five minutes can make.

Don't poke at the "ball of snakes" AT ALL -- it only stirs 'em up. Given calm, a whole lot will sort itself out, breaking up into proper pieces & finding their homes. Unless there's an actual biochemical problem, after maybe ten hours (total) of Calm Room, what remains should be really simple to shelve properly.
 
For as smart as I am I sure miss the forest for the trees a lot.
I know I have generalized anxiety, but I didn't know it was expressing with these racing thoughts. I read your post and was like "duh" and super embarrassed.
At least now I can just see them for what they are and let them go, instead of trying to line up the snakes.

Jeeze.
 
The responses to this post really stuck with me. Especially the snakes deal.
I don't think it was much later after this that I started my adventure in mood stabilizers.
I'm on something now since last July that has really changed my life.
This OP is almost embarrassing bc it's so everywhere. Just reading it gives me anxiety.

Something else is that I did end up sleeping with MyDate and then I never heard from him again. I didn't feel strongly for him or more for him and I didn't even pursue him to find out why he acted the way he did. I just let it all go. It was very confusing and a deal breaker. I have no idea what I was to him and what the heck was going on with his wife. He and I slept with one another the night I met her. It left me so confused.

It also didn't change anything between Dean and I. Not a thing.
 
Hi BIS, thanks for that update. It sounds like things more or less resolved in their own way, particularly with Dean who seemingly felt fine after your liaison with MyDate. Hopefully some of your other concerns got resolved as well.
 
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