How do I even start to explain??

In fact "fake it til you make it," by pretending to be mono and the same kind of Christian as always, encourages the mindset that cause people to cheat. That's faking it, big time! Journey had enough respect to inform her husband of her changing needs. He doesn't want her honesty. He just wants a facade. That goes against my personal ethics, and Journey's too.
 
Thank you Cindie, Kevin and Mags for seeing me and what I've been trying to do. I know words can be misread often and everyone views others situations based on personal experience so I won't take the negativity personally.

Yesterday we had a short chat with a counsellor. She doesn't know all about the fact that I am seeking multiple relationships but knows we are struggling. She just wanted to help us find direction. She emphasised that people change and a marriage needs to change along with it. She also said that my husband needs to have my back rather than being on my parents side. She also recommended a book about fixing your marriage without having to talk about it.

So that was a little helpful, but it led to a discussion after she had gone where I said to him that I don't know if he'll ever accept me and how I have changed. He asked what I meant, and I said about how I want multiple relationships. I genuinely think it's the best way forward for me and he seems to think that I only have feelings for someone else because he hasn't been there for me enough. So he wants a chance to improve our marriage and focus on just us.

I'm prepared to give him that chance. Firstly because I do really love him, and also because leaving now wouldn't be the best idea for several reasons. I have no income as I'm the 'stay at home mum and educator' and also because if we do split, I want it to be under as good terms as possible rather than it be done in anger and misunderstanding. (Please don't misread that and take it to mean I want him to pay for my life while I have no intention of staying with him, that's really not what I mean, I do have our two children to raise and ultimately they cost money!) I've told him that there's a chance we could work on our marriage and it all be great and I may still want multiple relationships and he said we'll cross that bridge when we come to it (I.e he doesn't think that will happen)

I think my best tool right now is time, and showing him that I love him whilst still being quite clear the kind of person I am becoming. This is hard for him and I can't expect his views to change overnight, it hasn't had much time to sink in for him. I will also be finishing my studies so that I can work. I've had to tell my friend who I had feelings for that we have to part ways for now and if things change in the future then I will find him. But I also told him not to wait. It's painful though. And in the back of my mind I always have the memory of my husband telling me he'll take my kids from me.

I'm not designed for this suburban life. And I don't plan on staying in it and I've told my husband that too.

Life can be so complex!
 
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Well I'm on your side, JOA, whatever you decide to do.
 
Thank you. Doesn't help that I don't know what I want to do! Right now I'm mainly focusing on working on our marriage to make sure within myself and to show him that the issues in our marriage are not the reason for me feeling this way for others. But really deep down I feel that I am polyamorous. I also know that I am bisexual and want that connection with a female as well as a male. Or is that just wanting it all??

I think I just need to do a lot of reflection and discussion, as well as getting myself in a more stable situation i.e healthy and earning money, so that I have more control over any choices I want to make. And focus on more love (in general, not romantically) and less fear.

Thoughts on how to make this process non-damaging to the children would be greatly received. They are both under 6.
 
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How can the counselor possibly give good advice if she doesn't know the major piece of information?

Have my back rather than being on my parents side is vastly different, depending on whether we're talking about your parents overstepping their bounds, criticizing you, and getting drunk in front of the children....or you wanting to leave the family for Tahiti for three years, go into the meth making business, and move six men into the house.

Her advice is in general good advice for marriage, but it does depend on context, and she spoke without any context at all.

I think the feeling of 'bullying' that was mentioned earlier might have to do with the fact that it appears you are telling your husband you want to simply talk and work together, when in reality, it seems quite clear from your words here that you have made your decision, you are going to date and sleep with other men, and your husband's only choice, in truth, is like it or leave. But I don't get the impression he's fully aware of that.

Your real goal, it appears, is not to talk and work things out in a way that is satisfactory to both of you, but to just keep at it until you get what you want. But you're not being upfront with him, as far as I can tell, that you are going to date and sleep with other men, eventually, no matter how he feels.

As I said...this is how it appears. So I'll ask directly.

Are you going to leave him if he doesn't agree to poly?
If that is the case, is he fully aware of that?
 
I have to agree with both Journey and Whathappened. The easy part is if you decide this unilaterally with no input from your husband and it is is not up to him. You have drastically changed the conditions of your marriage. Bu Journey, in your behalf you could be like I was. Poly thoughts held to myself for years. Two failed marriages, that masked the was it a failure or do I just want someone else.
With my present wife, she brought up the topic in a blurt and we started talking about it. Then I could have that inward journey as to why I thought of relationships can be 3 or more. That became a lifestyle not an escape from a bad marriage.
 
How can the counselor possibly give good advice if she doesn't know the major piece of information?
...
Her advice is in general good advice for marriage, but it does depend on context, and she spoke without any context at all.
...
I think the feeling of 'bullying' that was mentioned earlier might have to do with the fact that it appears you are telling your husband you want to simply talk and work together, when in reality, it seems quite clear from your words here that you have made your decision, you are going to date and sleep with other men, and your husband's only choice, in truth, is like it or leave.
...
Are you going to leave him if he doesn't agree to poly?
If that is the case, is he fully aware of that?

I'm on your side Journeyofawakening and going through something similar myself. I feel you're not being completely honest with yourself though. Like WhatHappened I also get the feeling that your desire and intentions are different than you state. I'm not saying your desire and intentions are wrong – how could I since I have similar one's myself. But if your goal is reaching some sort of compromise with your husband you need to realize some of the things in this thread appear hypocritical and will damage any goodwill.

  • It's bad that he blames your "poly" tendencies on the internet and the influence of other people, but it's okay to blame his opinions on the church and the influence of other people. You're both unwilling to accept each other's views as legitimate and rightful.
  • At one point you both yelled at each other out of frustration, yet when he yells at you later he's said to be an abusive bully. If he is hurting you in any way, please protect yourself, but yelling "your wrong!" is not in itself abusive under the circumstances. He may feel threatened that you're telling him he's wrong by the things you've told him and your action of leaving the church – and he's right! You do feel he's wrong from what you've said here. That's okay, but please own it and realize the affect it has on him.
  • You want him to listen, respect, and honor your feelings and needs. You want him to open the marriage and accept your poly lifestyle. But when he tells you what his feelings and needs are – that you return to the church and return to the Christian lifestyle – they're dismissed in this thread as wrong. He may not have stated them in the best manner, but he has stated them clearly.

At this point if feels like you're both trying to manipulate (cherry pick phrases from the bible?) and coerce each other. I wouldn't say "convince" since that would imply a possibility. It sounds like he's happy with his life and has very firm beliefs. Please realize that you're asking him to change his values, needs, boundaries and beliefs – essentially his whole identity – so that you can be happy instead. I fully realize how unhappy you are. I'm unhappy for the same reasons and am struggling too. You have our own values and needs too, and aren't being true to your own identity. But do you really want to gain yours by tearing his down?
 
Thank you all for your honesty. Frankly, this whole thing has thrown me, so it is good to get perspective - especially as I'm in an emotional whirlpool. So thanks for that.

We all have the ideal situation for how we want our lives to look in our head. And yes mine is a polyamorous situation which also includes my husband. NOT because of his bank account, or the children (that obviously plays a huge part) or anything else except for the fact that I married him for a reason - I love him very much. Mostly we make each other happy. I know that it would be hard work though, I'm not naive.

You have our own values and needs too, and aren't being true to your own identity. But do you really want to gain yours by tearing his down?

This revealing of my identity is new to me as well as him. More so to him obviously, but my intention is not to tear his identity down - my intention is to work on 'us' to see if 'us' can adapt to all the changes I am going through. Because it's not just the relationship stuff, it's also the spiritual stuff. Marriage needs to be able to adapt to situations, most of which we can predict or know we can accept like children coming along, like illness, like financial strain. This change in my views on relationship structures was just...unpredictable.

I know that it's important for me to be true to myself. Like TheWind said, I wouldn't want this to crop up another 5-10 years down the line after pushing my feelings down. However I also know that it's important for him to be true to himself. I know that he has made his feelings quite clear but I know that if he had asked me the same thing 2 or 3 years ago I would have had the same reaction. I'm giving him a chance to make sure he definitely feels that way, whilst saying I will not currently be dating or having sex with anyone else. And while that is going on I will also be seeking my own feelings on the subject to make sure I am definitely sure too. Then we will review things. He knows this because I told him that there is a chance that even when we have strengthened our marriage I may still want multiple relationships. So I guess once we've had some time to be 'us' we will revisit all of this and see where we both stand. If we don't stand in the same place then we will have to not be in a relationship anymore. Like I said in a previous comment, I would rather end our marriage after trying and working on us, knowing that we are both completely sure with who we are and what we want - rather than ending it after just discovering this change.

The reason I mention the church and Christianity is because I've been in it...a long time, and I know the control it holds over not being yourself. I want him to be sure about what he feels and what he wants and what is acceptable, from HIMSELF, not from an institution/religion. I want him to feel the freedom that I feel.
 
It's always interesting to me how people read into other's words.

I don't see Journey as being manipulative or demanding. I do see her wanting to be heard by her husband. Being heard is not the same thing as agreeing to whatever she wants. He is reacting out of fear which is completely understandable. However, it is not acceptable to threaten to take her children away from her. Which is what he did. That is a straight up threat to behave like how I want you to or you will not have custody of your children.

I don't think the people posting get that threat or somehow overlook it. If she leaves now, declares the marriage over now - she may never see her children again. Do you not realize how that community, and her husband and family, will work hard to turn them against her? It's a closed tribe not welcoming to people with different beliefs or values. She would become an outsider and one that threatens their spiritual health (to their mind). Of course, they would. How many of you would take that risk? Look, I support Journey doing whatever she needs to do in order to try and save her marriage and to keep contact with her children. That's not manipulation. That's survival.

Yes, she is being open with how she has changed over time, and those changes do not fit into the constricted world she currently inhabits. (There is nothing wrong with wanting to live a fundamentalist Christian life - lots of people do and are happy. It's similar to being a very observant Jew - one chooses a restricted life in order to achieve specific spiritual or community goals.) People, and marriages change. That is no one's fault and it sometimes means people should no longer be married to each other.

If he stops threatening her, begins to try to understand the changes she's experienced - even if he never approves or accepts them - acknowledges that she is a separate person with her own thoughts and feelings - I suspect that would go a long way to ease the situation. They might be able to work things out between them, even if working things out means ultimately separating. Reducing the odds of bitter custody battles, estranged families, hurt children and general pain is always a good thing. But the current path they are on does not lead to that better outcome. And waiting and continuing to love in hopes of a better outcome, that's not manipulative.

I don't see Journey as any different than the many other folks who post here trying to get their mono (or poly) partner who they love dearly to understand them. She really wants to work out something with a man she loves, who is a good father to her children - that makes her human, not manipulative.
 
However, it is not acceptable to threaten to take her children away from her. Which is what he did. That is a straight up threat to behave like how I want you to or you will not have custody of your children.

I don't think the people posting get that threat or somehow overlook it. If she leaves now, declares the marriage over now - she may never see her children again. Do you not realize how that community, and her husband and family, will work hard to turn them against her? It's a closed tribe not welcoming to people with different beliefs or values.

From my perspective and knowing what some Christians believe, I suspect he feels that her having other relationships is as morally wrong as molesting a child. Would he not threaten to take the kids away to protect them from something he felt was that wrong (to him)? Even if you disagree, is it possible to understand that perspective?

A rough divorce is not just a threat from the community. Even if a state has a no-fault divorce like mine in Michigan, they still often consider "cheating" when awarding custody and alimony. Like it or not relationships outside the marriage can make divorce tougher for her. As long as she's been "faithful" he wouldn't likely have a case though. If Journeyofawakening wants to be true to herself and have the best outcome for custody of her children, she would need to divorce him first before seeking any relationships. I think that is a difficult decision and one I may have to make myself.
 
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Ultimately, my children's safety and well-being is my highest priority.

But that also doesn't mean that I ignore my feelings about how I should live my life because I also think that's not setting a good example.

Children need whole parents, or as whole as they can be. Even if it means those parents aren't together anymore. I am trying to find my wholeness.

But I do need to look into the UK laws regarding all of this.
 
Thank you all for your honesty. Frankly, this whole thing has thrown me, so it is good to get perspective - especially as I'm in an emotional whirlpool. So thanks for that.
...

You have tough time ahead and my heart aches for you. I hope in time it works out. I don't think you intend to hurt or change your husband, but a big change in mindset will be necessary on his part for him to even understand you.
 
Pulling for you as always JOA. I hope things start to get better between you and your husband.
 
From my perspective and knowing what some Christians believe, I suspect he feels that her having other relationships is as morally wrong as molesting a child. Would he not threaten to take the kids away to protect them from something he felt was that wrong (to him)? Even if you disagree, is it possible to understand that perspective?

A rough divorce is not just a threat from the community. Even if a state has a no-fault divorce like mine in Michigan, they still often consider "cheating" when awarding custody and alimony. Like it or not relationships outside the marriage can make divorce tougher for her. As long as she's been "faithful" he wouldn't likely have a case though. If Journeyofawakening wants to be true to herself and have the best outcome for custody of her children, she would need to divorce him first before seeking any relationships. I think that is a difficult decision and one I may have to make myself.

Divorcing first and then seeking relationships doesn't nesecarrily absolve JourneyofAwakening from the community shutting her out, or ex seeking to take kids at later point. Those things are mutually exclusive. But I do think tackling one thing at a time is best to achieve a better result. However an ex can use kids as a spiteful move later on. A bad marriage partnership / divorce , especially with kids, can be all sorts of difficult to manage. For myself it's been haunting my decision making for 5 years post divorce.

Letting things settle after divorce is probably for best, plus by giving time I improved who I was and dated better suited kind people post divorce . JourneyofAwakening, you might find you want or like or need a lot different types than previously, after all the dust settles and you move foreword. Hang in there.
 
I read up through about page 8, and then skipped to the last. It seems to me you might possibly be a bit too focused on the excuse he gave you (religion). He didn't give you a need of his you weren't meeting or which wouldn't be met by polyamory - he gave you an evaluation of a belief system, one you're already familiar with. Learning all the opposing views to that belief system, IMO will ill-equip you. The more you know about it (and focus on it), the more tempted you're going to be to argue and defend against it - which is all the more likely to arouse defensiveness in him. He's not very likely to feel compassionate about your needs if he's busy defending his own.

So what to do? I can't tell you exactly. I'm in a similar predicament. I'm not "polyamorous" exactly. Someone told me on a forum by what I described I was "polysexual". Basically I desire FWB-type sexual relationships with women other than my spouse. I love the different reactions and emotions that come from experiences with different people. I don't desire committed-type relationships such as what I think most would think about in polyamory. Why? I don't have any need to "come out", and I feel completely adequate with these types of relationships. I get to keep all my family close, and I even go to church. No one knows. My perfect situation would be one in which I could have lunch, go to a game, go to a party with a FWB - and yet maintain a close primary relationship with my spouse which meets her needs and mine. With my other partners: No living together, no paying bills together, just time management and a little sharing. I'm totally willing to give my spouse the same. I'm not closed to that changing, but it's a start.

In my personal situation, we have been swingers. But we have always (with the exception of a fairly recent situation) always played in the same room. I'm comparing my desire to have the freedom to play separately from her with some of our friends to your desire to be poly. It's not the same at all - but I listened to the excuses she gave me, as it appears you have, and I tried my damnedest to understand them and refute them; all to no avail. There seems to be some sort of fear there, some need for security - nonetheless I get an emphatic "NO" and then usually a guilt trip and pouting spree to top it off, and I slither back downstairs to my computer room to log back on to forums like this one and attempt to connect with people who have empathy with my feelings - a need she's been unable to meet. There's MANY more layers to this story, I'd be happy to tell. If you like, just PM me. Nonetheless, in order to not threadjack your thread I'll get to my point:

Many times (according to nonviolent communication - ALL the time) the judgments people make of you are in response to some need of theirs not being met. Maybe he does have a belief system that he's relying on to meet a particular need of his (and thus is blocking your particular need?) - but rather than arguing with it - I think the point to focus on with him is how that belief system ISN'T meeting your needs and then describing the emotions you FEEL in relationship to that need not being met. Until he grasps what your needs are and how you feel enough to just have EMPATHY for you - all your "requests" are likely or probable to sound like "demands" to him. Demands require a "one way or the other response" and typically he'll go with the opposite response you desire. This is just my opinion and assessment.

I HIGHLY recommend reading Non-Violent Communication. I liked it so much I read it twice! lol. Hopefully some of this helps.
 
Oh...and just my opinion...if you haven't fucked your other dude yet. I'd just not ever mention it. Like ever. What your husband doesn't know, he can't make judgements about. :eek:
 
Here is my advice :
If you want to practice poly with this friend, you should not give your husband the impression that he is hovering over your marriage or waiting on the sidelines to be called in at a moments notice, it will put your husband on alert and very defensive
 
Well an update...
He has told me that he will never accept multiple relationships; not now, not in a week, not in a year, never.

So I either have to choose to deny myself and stay monogamous with him (and live a life of being misunderstood and mocked for my thoughts on life in general) or we have to go our separate ways

My heart is breaking really because I do love him and I didn't want to pull our family apart. I don't want to hurt the children. I feel to-blame because I didn't figure this all out earlier. I just blindly followed the formula for a 'happy life' in the hopes that it would make me happy.
 
This bit is the bit I cannot understand:
(and live a life of being misunderstood and mocked for my thoughts on life in general)

Is he so intolerant that he can't fathom that your thoughts on life are yours and worthy of as much respect as his own? I quite agree that if he doesn't want to be in a poly relationship with you, he should be honest and upfront about that. However, not having the natural curiosity and compassion to want to understand the woman you profess to love…well, it is not loving behaviour at all. It seems he's not leaving either of you with many options here. :(
 
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