How do I feel ok with my wife opening our relationship?

It's not that sex is off the table, it's that I'm sharing this incredibly precious thing with others, with people I don't feel deserve it. I have put half of my life into taking care of her, loving her the best I can, and these are just people looking for a goddess for their fun. I'm probably not being fair to them, but it's how I'm feeling right now. I feel left out. I've always felt left out, like I don't belong anywhere. I what to feel included, I want to feel wanted, I want to feel beautiful, and I don't at all. I know I must find it within, but I've hated myself for so long, I don't know where to even start.
As anyone will tell you, you can't truly love others until you love yourself. Even RuPaul says that as her tagline at the end of every episode of Drag Race. "If you don't love yourself, how in the hell can you love somebody else? Can I get an Amen?"

That's where I believe you should start. You can work on your own self-love. The hatred surely stems from your childhood. Your parental figures probably told you you were worthless. It's time to move on from that.

If you don't love yourself, and your self-esteem is bad, you will cling to friends and lovers as if they are a life raft, holding on to them desperately. This is self-defeating. They may be okay with their role as your rescuer for a time, but it can start to feel like a burden. That might be why your wife is pulling away by getting involved with ENM. She might be quite tired of being your "everything." That's draining!

Rather than trying to glom on to her lovers, or even seek your own partner, I'd start with the inner work you need to do. I think Bobbi here recommends book (maybe a podcast?), Unf*ck Your Brain. And of course, you can go to therapy or self-help groups.

There are ways to grow your self-esteem which usually involve behaviors that make you feel accomplished, powerful, helpful, be they hobbies, volunteer work, a new position at your paid job, raising children well, traveling independently and learning new things, etc.
 
It's not that sex is off the table, it's that I'm sharing this incredibly precious thing with others, with people I don't feel deserve it.

Would you please be willing to clarify? What is the "thing" in that sentence? Is "sex" the "precious thing?" Or do you mean you are sharing your wife's attention with others and she's a "precious person?" Or are you the "precious person" you'd be sharing through sex encounters? Or is it a combo?

I have put half of my life into taking care of her, loving her the best I can, and these are just people looking for a goddess for their fun. I'm probably not being fair to them, but it's how I'm feeling right now.

Is there something wrong with people and your wife being attracted to each other?

Do you have your wife up on some "goddess pedestal?" Do you think you "got lucky to find her" and aren't sure what she sees in you or why she likes you, so you worry about the luck "running out" one day?

I feel left out. I've always felt left out, like I don't belong anywhere.

Always? Even before Wife?

Could you be neurodivergent, autistic, or something else, and/or maybe also struggling with self esteem or depression?

I want to feel included, feel wanted, feel beautiful.

All normal things to want.

I know I must find it within, but I've hated myself for so long, I don't know where to even start.

Well, if you have a harsh inner critic voice, and you go around being your own self-bully, it's going to be hard to feel good about yourself listening to that radio station all day long.

On the flip side, you can change your mind and learn new behavior, learn to STOP being so mean to yourself.

You could think about working with a counselor, and in the meantime, consider reading the "Feeling Good" handbook online, since setting up appointments can take a bit.


Just NOTICE when you talk mean to yourself, maybe write it down so you can see how often it happens.

You could also think about Recovery International:


and/or


Galagirl
 
Include you? As in you see the advantage for yourself in potentially having threesomes?
For me, I want to feel wanted. I don't have much confidence. I have got into the best shape of my life, but with this, it makes me feel ugly. I never get hit on, and haven't had anyone interested in me in my life with my wife. I feel like no one wants me. Only recently has she made an effort to tell me I'm attractive. I want real connection as well. I don't have many, if any friends and find myself alone most days. The loneliness is another problem that maybe having others to talk to would help me feel better about myself. I know that no one can "make" me feel better, I have to do it myself. But having others want me would do wonders for my confidence, or so I think.
 
As anyone will tell you, you can't truly love others until you love yourself. Even RuPaul says that as her tagline at the end of every episode of Drag Race. "If you don't love yourself, how in the hell can you love somebody else? Can I get an Amen?"

That's where I believe you should start. You can work on your own self-love. The hatred surely stems from your childhood. Your parental figures probably told you you were worthless. It's time to move on from that.

If you don't love yourself, and your self-esteem is bad, you will cling to friends and lovers as if they are a life raft, holding on to them desperately. This is self-defeating. They may be okay with their role as your rescuer for a time, but it can start to feel like a burden. That might be why your wife is pulling away by getting involved with ENM. She might be quite tired of being your "everything." That's draining!

Rather than trying to glom on to her lovers, or even seek your own partner, I'd start with the inner work you need to do. I think Bobbi here recommends book (maybe a podcast?), Unf*ck Your Brain. And of course, you can go to therapy or self-help groups.

There are ways to grow your self-esteem which usually involve behaviors that make you feel accomplished, powerful, helpful, be they hobbies, volunteer work, a new position at your paid job, raising children well, traveling independently and learning new things, etc.
This is my greatest problem. I have done many years of therapy and still feel stuck in my feelings of myself. I'm sure this is part of why she wants to be with others. I feel like I'm getting better, then knock myself down. I feel it's impossible to get where I'm OK with myself, because I take the blame for everything that happens to me. I don't know how this will work without getting to where I'm OK with myself, but this makes me feel so awful that I can't see a way forward.
 
Could you please be willing to clarify? What is the "thing" in that sentence? Is "sex" the "precious thing?" Or do you mean you are sharing your wife's attention with others and she's a "precious person?" Or are you the "precious person" you'd be sharing through sex encounters? Or a combo?

Is there something wrong with people and your wife being attracted to each other?

Do you have your wife up on some "goddess pedestal?" Do you think you "got lucky to find her" and aren't sure what she sees in you or why she likes you. So you worry about the luck "running out" one day?

Always? Even before wife?

Could you be neurodivergent, autistic or something else, and/or maybe also struggling with self esteem or depression?

If you have a harsh inner critic voice, and go around being your own self-bully, it's going to be hard to feel good about yourself listening to that radio station all day long.

On the flip side, you can change your mind and learn new behavior, and learn to STOP being so mean to yourself.

You could think about working with a counselor, and in the meantime, consider reading the "Feeling Good" handbook online, since setting up appointments can take a bit.


Just NOTICE when you talk mean to yourself, maybe write it down so you can see how often it happens.

Think about Recovery International:


and/or

Wow! Thank you! So, the precious "thing" is her love, time, and sex, in that order. I work nights and only really see her on weekends. I feel I don't get enough time with her already, so adding others will take that away. I imagine her falling for someone better looking, a better lover, a more confident person.

She is absolutely on a Goddess pedestal! Because she is one. I've never met another beauty like her. She is also sweet, kind, brilliant, talented, and a lot of fun. I don't know why she dated me-- I had nothing to offer but love. I have never felt good enough for her, and this want for her to be with others makes me believe it more.

I've always been alone. I didn't have friends as a young kid or teenager. Once I got married and started having kids, I put all my energy into my wife and kids, so I haven't made friends. The only people I hang out with are her friends, who are nice, but they are her friends; I'm just an accessory, I feel. I work nights during the week so it's difficult to get out to meet others. She has many friends because she's awesome and people want to be around her. It probably doesn't help that I'm not happy. Who wants to be around someone who's down all the time? It's a terrible circle I'm in. I feel bad because I'm alone, but because I feel bad, I'm alone.

I'm a bully to myself, all day and night. I have been working on it, but it's still not good. I have had therapists for the past 5 years continuously, and it's helped. I'm a recovering alcoholic, which I have a lot of guilt around, which doesn't help.

I'm so afraid to lose her. She is truly irreplaceable. I must be better. I have to be ok, or it will all go away.
 
Hi Tony442nm,

I just want to say, that it is obvious from your writings that you are a good person who deserves to be loved. I know something of being one's own worst enemy, I still beat myself up over my little mistakes, after all these years. You have to listen to other people when they say you are a good person. Don't listen to the people who put you down, even if you are one of those people.

It's obvious that your wife is one in a million, you are lucky to have her. But by the same token, she is lucky to have you. You need to get to the bottom of why she is distancing herself from you, I think the two of you should see a marriage counselor if you're not already doing that. I do not think that you are ugly, and I don't think she thinks that either. This is something more complex than that, you will need professional help to get to the bottom of it.

Hang in there.
Kevin T.
 
This is my greatest problem. I have done many years of therapy and still feel stuck in my feelings of myself. I'm sure this is part of why she wants to be with others. I feel like I'm getting better then knock myself down. I feel it's impossible to get where I'm OK with myself, because I take the blame for everything that happens to me. I don't know how this will work without getting to where I'm OK with me, but this makes me feel so awful, that I can't see a way forward.
I can relate, although my struggle is a little more on the depressive side then on the selfworth side.

I'm currently in a place where I say "screw that advice" to anyone telling me I have to change on the inside before I can [have a good relationship/ insert your thing]. If therapy isn't working and nothing else works either, than this [anxiety, depression, moodiness...] is where I am at and I have to live my life from that place. I've tried for 10+ years to get better, I'm not better. I'm not quitting therapy, at the same time, self-improvement (failing me over and over) can't be the focus of my life. I can't be waiting for something that may never come.

Gather your support just in case, find a nice entry point, go get your toes wet.
 
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Hi Tony442nm,

I just want to say, that it is obvious from your writings that you are a good person who deserves to be loved. I know something of being one's own worst enemy, I still beat myself up over my little mistakes, after all these years. You have to listen to other people when they say you are a good person. Don't listen to the people who put you down, even if you are one of those people.

It's obvious that your wife is one in a million, you are lucky to have her. But by the same token, she is lucky to have you. You need to get to the bottom of why she is distancing herself from you, I think the two of you should see a marriage counselor if you're not already doing that. I do not think that you are ugly, and I don't think she thinks that either. This is something more complex than that, you will need professional help to get to the bottom of it.

Hang in there.
Kevin T.
Thank you. I have a hard time hearing that I'm good or attractive. I think I have to be a mess for her to want to be with others, although she tells me it's not. I can't understand it all, but I'm working on it. We are in therapy, and my wife seems to feel like things are OK, I'm the one with the problem, I'm also not the one getting what they want. If you ask what I want, it's to either not open the marriage or feel better about it. I don't think the first one is an option. I appreciate your words.
 
I'm a bully to myself, all day and night. I have been working in it but it's still not good. I have had therapists for the past 5 years continuously, and it's helped. I'm a recovering alcoholic, which I have a lot of guilt around, which doesn't help.

I'm glad you are already in therapy and trying to work on things.

I'm so afraid to lose her. She is truly irreplaceable. I must be better. I have to be ok, or it will all go away.

You seem very fearful of a breakup. Have you brought that up in therapy?

We are in therapy and my wife seems to feel like things are OK. I'm the one with the problem. I'm also not the one getting what they want.

Wife thinks things are ok in the (you + wife) relationship?

I have a hard time hearing that I'm good or attractive. I think I have to be a mess for her to want to be with others, although she tells me it's not.
You think she's not being honest with you? You think she's looking for other relationships because this one is blah to her?

Could anything here help you?

https://www.kathylabriola.com/artic...nster-managing-jealousy-in-open-relationships


If you ask what I want, it's to either not open the marriage or feel better about it. I don't think the first one is an option.

Have you said it just like that in therapy session? "I want to either not open the marriage at all, or feel better about it -- and not believe she thinks I'm a mess and that's why she wants to be with others. I want to be able to believe her at her word."

I could be wrong, but it sounds like you are so afraid of a breakup with her that you are willing to bend into pretzels to avoid that happening, even doing stuff you don't really want to do.

Could that be true?

Galagirl
 
I haven't met your wife, but I can tell you this with utter conviction.....

She's not *that* great. She's not worth your self-esteem, all this longing, pain & misery. There is absolutely no need for you to pretend to want to sleep with other people, or to have to deal with your wife sleeping with other people.

You've devoted your life to her and the kids? How about taking some time now to be all about YOU and what YOU want?

I was a benignly neglected child, who spent a LOT of her life feeling unlovable. What has NEVER helped is trying to bend myself into someone I'm not to make someone stay with me. When I finally, after 50-something years, learned to stop chasing people who seemed "better" than me & learn how to genuinely connect with my own needs, much better friendships & the partner I've always dreamed of seemed to materialize.

I vote you get out of this awful situation and go find your tribe.
 
You are correct. I have been doing anything and everything she wants in order to keep her happy and not leave me. I have not said that directly. I have also been gun shy about speaking completely honestly because I have hurt her feeling several times during this, as I don't know the right way to say what I'm feeling, or that I'm letting fear speak for me.

Because we don't see this the same way, or so it seems, I only see this as a lack in me as a partner, a friend, and especially as a lover. I know it's not fair to either of us, it's just how it feels, and it hurts me tremendously.
 
I haven't met your wife, but I can tell you this with utter conviction.....

She's not *that* great. She's not worth your self-esteem, all this longing, pain & misery. There is absolutely no need for you to pretend to want to sleep with other people, or to have to deal with your wife sleeping with other people.

You've devoted your life to her and the kids? How about taking some time now to be all about YOU and what YOU want?

I was a benignly neglected child, who spent a LOT of her life feeling unlovable. What has NEVER helped is trying to bend myself into someone I'm not to make someone stay with me. When I finally, after 50-something years, learned to stop chasing people who seemed "better" than me & learn how to genuinely connect with my own needs, much better friendships & the partner I've always dreamed of seemed to materialize.

I vote you get out of this awful situation and go find your tribe.
I appreciate your words. You are right that I need to find what will make me happy, but I've never done that. I was neglected as a child and teenager, and was taught by action that my happiness doesn't matter, or that if I need something, I'm being selfish. I am selfish, but in a terribly negative way. As an alcoholic, I found that I am selfish by not being selfish for what, by thinking I'm the worst thing ever. My sponsor says it's ego in reverse, and it's still very strong. My biggest issue is not being OK with myself, and that will be my work, whether she leaves me or not
I haven't met your wife, but I can tell you this with utter conviction.....

She's not *that* great. She's not worth your self-esteem, all this longing, pain & misery. There is absolutely no need for you to pretend to want to sleep with other people, or to have to deal with your wife sleeping with other people.

You've devoted your life to her and the kids? How about taking some time now to be all about YOU and what YOU want?

I was a benignly neglected child, who spent a LOT of her life feeling unlovable. What has NEVER helped is trying to bend myself into someone I'm not to make someone stay with me. When I finally, after 50-something years, learned to stop chasing people who seemed "better" than me & learn how to genuinely connect with my own needs, much better friendships & the partner I've always dreamed of seemed to materialize.

I vote you get out of this awful situation and go find your tribe.
 
Polyamory doesn't mean each partner in a network is lacking things as a human being (and are therefore "less than" someone else). You are the perfect you. (You may be evolving, you may have self-doubt, you may be a work in progress, but so are we all...)

The only thing you lack is that you aren't two people. You are one person. You are unique. You can be loved for who you are, despite your faults. We ALL have faults. We all lack some things, because one person can't be EVERYTHING.

Can you improve? Sure. If you want a fuller richer life, you can make changes in your mindset, your behaviors, your activities, the way you talk to yourself. But you need to do that for yourself, not just to please someone else. Once you feel good in yourself, others will appreciate your newfound confidence and be attracted to you. Confidence (not arrogance, just a comfort in who you are) is very appealing. It gives you charisma.
 
You are correct, I have been doing anything and everything she wants in order to keep her happy and not leave me.

So it's largely performative, you not being authentic or the honest you? Doesn't it get exhausting, keeping up the facade so she doesn't dump you?

I have not said that directly. I have also been gun shy about speaking completely honestly because I have hurt her feelings several times during this, as I don't know the right way to say what I'm feeling, or that I'm letting fear speak for me.

You know what? There comes a point in life where one decides to just plump for honesty and authenticity, because there are gonna be "feelings" all around, no matter what.

If you cannot say it in couples counseling, perhaps you schedule individual counseling and tell it to the counselor alone?

IME, it's easier to live with myself and whatever outcome if I am being honest and authentic, rather than faking it. Like, ok, the choice didn't pan out... but it wasn't because I didn't do everything possible, including being radically honest. I can live with my choices then, even without the desired outcome, because I really did give it my all. I don't have to sit there wondering, "What if I had been actually honest instead? Would that have changed anything?"

Because we don't see this the same way, or so it seems, I only see this as a lack in me as a partner, a friend, and especially as a lover. I know it's not fair to either of us, it's just how it feels, and it hurts me tremendously.
If this kind of performative behavior leads to you feeling like crap, maybe it is time to try NEW behavior to see if it leads to feeling better things as a result?

I was neglected as a child and teenager, and was taught by action that my happiness doesn't matter, or that if I need something, I'm being selfish.

I'm sorry your caregivers hurt you this way as a child and teen. :( Now that you are an adult who cares for himself, is that a reason to keep neglecting yourself, not seek happiness, call yourself "selfish" for having basic human needs?

Maybe it's ok to start to care for yourself better than your past caregivers did. Sometimes people do have to "re-parent" themselves because they got stuck with ugh parents/caregivers. I encourage you to talk to your therapist about this.

And if you don't want an open marriage, SAY SO. Let the chips fall where they may.

Galagirl
 
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So it's largely performative, you're not being authentic? Doesn't it get exhausting keeping up the facade so she doesn't dump you?

There comes a point in life where one decides to just plump for honesty, there are gonna be "feelings" all around no matter what.

If you cannot say it in couples counseling, perhaps you schedule individual counseling and tell it to the counselor alone? It's easier to live with myself and whatever outcome if I am being honest and authentic rather than "faking." Like, ok, the choice didn't pan out... but it wasn't because I didn't do everything possible. I don't have to sit there wondering, "What if I had been actually honest instead? Would that have changed anything?"

If this kind of performative behavior leads to you feeling like crap, maybe it is time to try NEW behavior

I'm sorry your caregivers hurt you this way as a child and as a teen. :( Is that a reason to keep it going as an adult, neglect your own self, don't seek happiness, or call yourself selfish?

Maybe it's ok to start to care for yourself better than the past caregivers did. Sometimes people do have to "re-parent" themselves because they got stuck with ugh parents/caregivers. I encourage you to talk to your therapist about it.

And if you don't want an open marriage, SAY SO. Let the chips fall where they may.
To say it's performative is not completely fair. There is a lot of truth, but I temper my responses to try to take care of her. I said I didn't want an open marriage a year ago, and she said then we should divorce, but then texted me the next day saying please don't leave me. I don't want to divorce. This one thing is the only thing we don't have in common. We literally match in every way but for this. That being said, I have had my own fantasies about being with others, and adding others to our bed is intriguing. I'm most against her just being with other men and the time she will take with others, as we don't get a lot of time together. To say I'm totally against it is incorrect, but I need it a specific way because I'm SO insecure. She doesn't want my rules. She's mostly OK with my boundaries, but we have not hammered it all down.

I've kept treating myself badly and holding myself down because it's all I know, and in a way, it's comfortable. It has also driven me to do more than I ever thought I could. I think I'm shit, so I work that much harder. It's not OK, but was reinforced by my previous job, and in a lot of ways my marriage. I think I suck, so I try harder with her, as well. I know I need to be kind and nurturing to myself. I need to love myself, or at least be kind.

I realize now that if I don't get better with myself, our marriage will end, whether we open it up or not.
 
Polyamory doesn't mean each partner in a network is lacking things as a human being (and are therefore "less than" someone else). You are the perfect you. (You may be evolving, you may have self-doubt, you may be a work in progress, but so are we all...)

The only thing you lack is that you aren't two people. You are one person. You are unique. You can be loved for who you are, despite your faults. We ALL have faults. We all lack some things, because one person can't be EVERYTHING.

Can you improve? Sure. If you want a fuller richer life, you can make changes in your mindset, your behaviors, your activities, the way you talk to yourself. But you need to do that for yourself, not just to please someone else. Once you feel good in yourself, others will appreciate your newfound confidence and be attracted to you. Confidence (not arrogance, just a comfort in who you are) is very appealing. It gives you charisma.
I see her as not lacking anything at all. I'm all lack, as far as I see it. That feeling that I lack has pushed me to do so much for her and others. It feels like it has been "successful" because she is still with me, but I'm not a happy person, which would have eventually pushed her away regardless of opening the marriage. Thank you for your kindness. 🙏
 
Thank you for more info.
I realize now that if I don't get better with myself, our marriage will end whether we open it up or not.
Yup. Which is why, at a certain point, I think you could plump for radical honesty. Either say you don't want open marriage at this time, or go ahead and open it, without any restrictions like "no dating men," and let it find its natural level. Just have agreements for safer sex practices and each of you having your own checking accounts to pay for your dates.
That being said, I have had my own fantasies about being with others, and adding others to our bed is intriguing. I'm most against her just being with other men and the time she will take with others, as we don't get a lot of time together.
Like a one-penis policy?

Will either of you be changing jobs or other things so you can have more time together?
I think I'm shit, so I work that much harder. It's not OK, but was reinforced by my previous job, and in a lot of ways my marriage.
What does that mean? Does she prefer you thinking you are shit so you do lots of acts of service for her benefit? Doesn't she want you to actually get well?

I'm not being mean, just trying to understand what you have going on. It sounds complex.
It feels like it has been "successful " because she is still with me, but I'm not a happy person, which would have eventually pushed her away, regardless of opening the marriage.
What do you need to actually be happy? Or, if that's too much to think about, what do you need to be at peace or neutral? Are you able to articulate that?

Is feeling happy one of those "too good to be true" things for you, like you don't really trust it?

Galagirl
 
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A lot of us here have healthy working poly relationships, whether they are open or closed, as you'll see as you start to read around.
OP, note that most of those are where partners date separately, not as a couple, or in a triad or quad, which are poly on hard mode. Do try dating on your own.
 
I don't want to divorce. This one thing is the only thing we don't have in common. We literally match in every way but for this.
But this is a BIG thing. It's like one person wanting kids and the other not, or one is very religious and the other is an atheist. It's big. It's not like you prefer blue in the bedroom and you partner wants green, so you compromise on purple.
 
As you might guess, this is all very new for me. My wife and I have been together for 22 years. She had a couple affairs that we have gotten past, although I'm still hurt by.
How long ago were the affairs and how long did each affair last?
I'm not happy, although I agreed to it. I felt if I didn't, she would just cheat on me again, which I don't think I'll survive another.
I want her to be happy, but I'm kinda dying here. I want to be ok with it all, but I'm super lonely, even before her going out, and I'm not sure what to do. Any help is appreciated.
Clearly you’re not past the cheating, and with your level of jealousy and self esteem, which her cheating helped contribute to, I don’t see how this new open arrangement is going to feel better, being able to watch and see in real time, minus some of the lying and sneaking around. It might feel like a cheating flashback right in front of your face.

To me, you’re lighting yourself on fire to keep her warm.
 
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