How much is too much?

[IndieSolo]

Now it seems like he's talking to so damn many girls, I can't keep them straight. And meeting them. And fucking them.

But what's mostly changed is... from the beginning, at least of where our relationship turned from casual to, well, a relationship, it was supposed to be me, my metamour, and maybe another girl as sexual partners. Then of course, anyone who participated in a threesome with us. And he would tell me if he was talking to a girl or would go out with someone... and it was one... like, a month... if that... then suddenly it was five names in five weeks, and then went up from there! It was insane. So much, all at once.

So what?

So, he is talking to, dating, and/or fucking a few girls a week and you don't like it, so that makes it insane? Whoa, there's a lot of judgment and slut-shaming going on here. Why do you feel that his sex life and how he conducts relationships with others has anything to do with you? As long as you and he practice safer sex and treat each other well, why would it matter how many other women he is with? Two is okay, but 6 or 7 or a dozen is not? Why not? Because it was "supposed to be" the way you wanted it and now it is not? I think you are being very territorial and melodramatic about something that really is none of your business.

 

[Magdlyn]

Kitten, I don't know if you read my blog on here (its in our blogs section), but I went through something similar with my ex bf. So many feelings you are having, and things you are trying to do to understand and manage a bf who "cats around," I went through that too.

My bf seemed perfect the first year. I knew he'd been poly for a long time, that he had a wife, I learned about his former gfs. It all sounded good.

He was great in bed, he was tall and handsome and smart, he had a solar house on 50 acres he had built with his wife, he cut his own wood, he was a good dresser, he seemed spiritual, artistic, loyal, and he even helped me with home repairs (like hanging a chandelier, or heavy gardening chores). He sang and played guitar. He was semi retired, and he and his wife of 40 years didnt have much sex, and he had lots of time and energy for me. He was 59 when we met but looked and acted younger. I was 57.

I also at the time had a gf of 3 years, they got attracted to each other, and after a few months become FWBs with my blessing.

After I was with him a year, my gf and I decided to move in together and he strongly requested we move near his part of the state. It made sense, so we did.

Then the troubles began. He started chatting more on OKC. He started dating a new person once a month. "Friends" he knew on FB suddenly became lovers. (Not a new woman every week, like you, but enough new people to seem odd, since we'd just moved to be near him and he started seeing us less!)

We went through the same thing you did, trying to figure out how much info about this others was too much or not enough. Also, what about STDs? He and I had gone condomless after 8 months but now I no longer felt safe.

Then he had some health issues which made him less good in bed (but that didn't stop him from pursuing others). He also started having me do almost all of the driving on our dates. One time we went dancing and he spent the whole night dancing with other women, and then was too tired after our date to even come into the house and have sex with me... and so on and so on.

Finally he started dating a married MF couple who were new to poly and had lots of jealousy issues. He was fucking both of them. The relationship was full of drama, breakups and reunions, and felt very unethical to me. He told me he liked the drama.

We would have these long relationship discussions, sometimes mediated by my gf (who had stopped having sex with him when he started dating others so much), sometimes alone, where he'd seem concerned about my feelings, but then go and do whatever he felt like the next day.

Finally I realized he was gaslighting me, when he started denying he'd said things he had said, even denied having wanted me to move near him in the previous year! My needs were definitely not being met. I broke up with him. It was very traumatic for me.

I'd always known he had some degree of Asperger's syndrome. Later, months after our breakup, when I was still grieving and unable to understand what went wrong, I figured out (from suggestions from GalaGirl) he must be a "Don Juan Narcissist." Google that term. Your bf sounds very similar. Once I figured out he must have a somewhat sociopathic personality disorder, I was able to move on in my life, feeling lucky to have gotten out when I did.

 

[Magdlyn]

So what?

So, he is talking to, dating, and/or fucking a few girls a week and you don't like it, so that makes it insane? Whoa, there's a lot of judgment and slut-shaming going on here. Why do you feel that his sex life and how he conducts relationships with others has anything to do with you? As long as you and he practice safer sex and treat each other well, why would it matter how many other women he is with? Two is okay, but 6 or 7 or a dozen is not? Why not? Because it was "supposed to be" the way you wanted it and now it is not? I think you are being very territorial and melodramatic about something that really is none of your business.

NYCindie, you told me the same things when I was struggling with my ex, and it was very unhelpful. It is not OK, because, as Kevin was pointing out, her bf is stretched too thin and she feels her needs are not being met.

kitten, feel free to PM me if you want to discuss this off the main board.

 

[hislittlekitten]

He doesn't respect *you*?

As far as I can tell, this fellow lives his life in a way that runs contrary to the way you find acceptable. It doesn't appear that he has any intention of running his life any different, so I fail to see how your continuing to feel disrespected by his unacceptable lifestyle is going to alter the situation.

You have a very negative viewpoint of how he chooses to live his life of "excessiveness" and "greed", I'm not sure why you continue to date him. Is it because you are waiting for him to change to suit your preference?

Your "waiting for him to change" comment is pretty rude, really.

This pace of pursuing women picked up only in the last few months. This was a change from what we agreed to earlier on; I had basically signed up for being a partner to him along with another woman (who is in an open marriage) with the awareness that there would be 1-2 other casual pursuits at any given time.

This is something like... 6-7 casual pursuits at any given time.

Again, your assumption that I want him to change is very rude and it's part of why monogamous people get turned off by all of this.

 

[hislittlekitten]

So what?

So, he is talking to, dating, and/or fucking a few girls a week and you don't like it, so that makes it insane? Whoa, there's a lot of judgment and slut-shaming going on here. Why do you feel that his sex life and how he conducts relationships with others has anything to do with you? As long as you and he practice safer sex and treat each other well, why would it matter how many other women he is with? Two is okay, but 6 or 7 or a dozen is not? Why not? Because it was "supposed to be" the way you wanted it and now it is not? I think you are being very territorial and melodramatic about something that really is none of your business.

Because it's a significant change from what we had before, and it wasn't part of what I agreed to?

So what if I don't like it? I've laid down how I feel about it, tried my best not to make it an ultimatum, and he sees where I feel concerned. He says he will avoid the kind of scheduling that packs 5 sexual partners into one week.

You have to look at it this way: I am uncomfortable with it, and it's not your place to tell me what I should and shouldn't be comfortable with. I told him what I was comfortable with and what I am not comfortable with. Yes, I can leave. But would it be fair to him to not bring it up, open up the doors for compromise, and if that doesn't work, then figure it out?

So judgemental of YOU, actually. I think it's none of YOUR business to tell me what I should be comfortable with.

 

[hislittlekitten]

We went through the same thing you did, trying to figure out how much info about this others was too much or not enough. Also, what about STDs? He and I had gone condomless after 8 months but now I no longer felt safe.

This is why I don't understand why 2-3 of you replying to my thread are so ridiculously judgemental about this. STDs/STIs, yes, a huge concern! Also - while I *feel* like 6-7 casual exploits are too much, is it really too much? I'm friggen ASKING people, before I really make up my mind, trying to put a reference to what I feel and separating what I feel from potentially objective arguments. Mind you, I said "potentially." (It's really a subjective matter so far as I can tell, but who knows, maybe someone finds a way to call this objective? If you go solely on risk of STIs, then it can become pretty objective!)

He told me he liked the drama.

Yikes! Thankfully my beau isn't too into the drama. He definitely prefers things to be calmer.

We would have these long relationship discussions, sometimes mediated by my gf (who had stopped having sex with him when he started dating others so much), sometimes alone, where he'd seem concerned about my feelings, but then go and do whatever he felt like the next day.

Until about two days ago - sorry, I took a break from all of this because it was really discouraging to hear criticism over what *I* am uncomfortable with - I had worried a lot about this. But between two conversations, he took a pretty direct - for the first time - approach to how I feel. It was the first time I really felt like he was acknowledging that it matters to him how I feel. He showed genuine concern about how I felt about my needs being met and that I was uncomfortable to the point of losing sex drive / feelings changing for him.

Of course, his actions will tell a lot more, I think, in the coming months. We are going to be a little distant for ~6 weeks as he has family obligations and I have planning meetings and a lot going on before the end of April.

He has not ruled out that this scheduling thing will happen again. To him, it's OK to be with this many women in this period of time. Fine then - if that's what he wants to do. But he is aware that I don't feel good about it; I'm OK with him having this 'roster', if you will, of casual women, but at this pace is what bothers me.

I should mention again that he shut off his dating profiles for the time being. He did it without me asking for it, and he agrees that he has enough on his plate for right now. He's also been making an effort to make time for me. We've discovered lately that spending mornings together before work is a really nice way to bond.

re: the Don Juan thing, I can see that... a little... I think I'll have to know him for longer, but hopefully it isn't me being ignorant, I just don't see any issues with him when it comes to emotional intimacy. We're very emotionally intimate. He's very generous and giving in that way; he has opened up to me quite a bit, both from what I have noticed and from what he has said. I somewhat doubt that it's an act; that would be quite the act to pull, if that is the case.

I am sorry that was your experience, Magdlyn. I'd be happy to PM as well. Thanks for your responses.

 

[IndieSolo]

Oh, I wasn't criticizing you for being uncomfortable with it. There is nothing wrong with that! How you feel is how you feel. What I was trying to say is that it seems that the issue at hand did not have anything to do with how well you were being treated or not, in this relationship; the issue appears to be mostly about your opinion on how many sexual partners he "should" have, and what it was "supposed to" be.

You did ask us:

How can I help distinguish from what is reasonable and what is unreasonable?

...and I am simply responding with what I think is reasonable or not. Personally, I do not think it is reasonable to ask someone to place limits on how they want to live their life in order to kowtow to one's feelings of discomfort.

You are uncomfortable - it is up to you to do the inner work necessary to resolve it in yourself. He may choose to alter his behavior in order to help you feel better, but -- again, to answer your question about what is reasonable or not -- I think that you requesting that he do so would be unreasonable. But by all means, if it is important to you to let him know what turmoil you are experiencing, then let him know. However, oftentimes it is not the wisest choice to express all that to a partner, simply because one's emotional reactions to a partner's life choices are not the partner's responsibility.

Yes, an agreement shifted without your input and that needs to be addressed. However, I mostly was struck by the language you used in your posts to describe the way in which he wishes to conducts his sex life. The words you chose indicate, to me, very strong judgments about how much fucking is going on and it comes across to me as a form of "slut shaming:"

. . . suddenly it was five names in five weeks, and then went up from there! It was insane. So much, all at once.

He lost out on an opportunity to spend time with me because he fucked a fling, right after having dinner with me . . . not telling me that he made those plans.

. . . The whole conversation felt way too close to a display of disrespect. Of trying to find loopholes for his excessiveness. Of excuses. Of greed.

. . . he is trying to find a way to just do what he wants to do.

Insane, excessive, greedy, just doing what he wants - all very similar to the criticisms that staunchly monogamous people often aim at polyfolk. I only wanted to point that out. When I asked "So what?" I meant, so what does it mean to you that he fucks more women than you think he should? Why, to you, does two seem "better" than five, for example? Is it the randomness that bugs you? Worries about STDs (though I assume you have safer sex practices in place!)? Is it that you feel left out, or not important or special enough to him? My asking these are not criticisms, btw, but just to deepen our understanding of the issue you chose to start a thread about!

Setting aside the fact that it was what you agreed to, I would like to understand why it is, exactly, so important to you that he stick to only having two main partners and 1 or 2 casual sex partners every now and then? Setting aside your emotions about it, how does the number of other women he fucks affect you in practical terms? Exactly why did his "pace" upset you so much?

 

[hislittlekitten]

the issue appears to be mostly about your opinion on how many sexual partners he "should" have, and what it was "supposed to" be.

Partially, yes. That's my opinion. But, like I have said, my concerns are:

1) taking time away from our relationship
2) possibility of STIs
3) that I'm uncomfortable with sexual partners in one week exceeding 3

I can't really tell you (emotionally, aside from STIs) why I'm uncomfortable with so many sexual partners in one week. It *feels* - emphasis on *feels* - greedy. Looking at the logic of poly(-amory,-fuckery,etc.), it shouldn't be an issue. But it *feels* greedy, which is kind of what I'm trying to point out - it's a FEELING, maybe it can be overcome, maybe it can't!

Personally, I do not think it is reasonable to ask someone to place limits on how they want to live their life in order to kowtow to one's feelings of discomfort.

There my dear - not said condescendingly, but because you care enough to continue the conversation! - is the issue! I don't want to tell him what to do. But I do want him to understand that if I'm uncomfortable, I have to find a way to make myself comfortable.

It took him a few discussions to see that this is not about me wanting to control what he does. It is about me needing space or change for me to accommodate his desire to sleep with all of these women. This is difficult! Especially trying to get him to understand that I'm not wanting to tell him what to do. I respect him as an individual.

I mostly was struck by the language you used in your posts to describe the way in which he wishes to conducts his sex life. The words you chose indicate, to me, very strong judgments about how much fucking is going on and it comes across to me as a form of "slut shaming:"

Step back and please look at the context. "Feels like." It felt like greedy behavior. It felt like excessiveness. And in the context of our relationship, to have gone home one night while he - yes, FUCKED - a fling - when I was there and around and available... it feels like it devalues our relationship

Again. Feels like. I try my best to avoid making it out to be a factual statement because I'm describing how it feels. Feelings change. I am not going to deny what feelings come up because I've learned that if I let myself have those feelings and keep my reactions at a minimum until I've sorted out those feelings, that I am able to better process what's going on.

The whole conversation felt way too close to a display of disrespect.

Yes, it felt disrespectful. Perhaps it was unfair of me to write it that way, especially because you were all missing context: I was being told that MY FEELINGS, of this being uncomfortable for me, shouldn't matter to the discussion because his flings are not romances, because he's having safe sex, and because we did not have plans on those nights. So, in his mind, I shouldn't be feeling that way. It was very insulting to be told that I'm not allowed to feel a certain way. How would you like that? Would that feel respectful to you?

He has, previously, said that he would "not be excessive." This includes not cutting out my time, or his other partner's time. This includes being able to focus on our conversations and our time with each other. This includes not scheduling dates with every single fling every week. Yet, that's what happened. If he's making time for them weekly but he's also making time for me weekly... it is narrowing the gap between casual and a relationship.

Worries about STDs (though I assume you have safer sex practices in place!)?

That's the biggest worry, especially because the women he sleeps with have multiple partners themselves. Every single one of them.

Is it that you feel left out, or not important or special enough to him?

Yes, when I lose out on a night because of work, but all of his other nights are booked with casual flings, and I don't get re-booked. I'm not a space on a calendar, I'm a partner who is supposed to have priority. And having dinner with him before he goes - without telling me, like he is supposed to, according to our agreement - to fuck a fling? He admitted that he made the wrong call on that, and it had better not happen again.

When I asked "So what?" I meant, so what does it mean to you that he fucks more women than you think he should?

Again, it's the pace that bothers me more than anything else. I'm trusting him to be safe with them, but I have not seen papers (nor have I requested them to see for myself, but I request that he sees them). I'm trusting that he gets those documents and that he uses condoms.

When you sleep with that many people at that pace, the risk of transmission is really high. Knowing this makes me feel awfully dirty. That's not a lot of time to figure out if something's going on.

He has in the past not been honest to his other partner about the nature of my relationship with him, or our sexual practices, which when it was only the two of us wasn't a huge concern. Now that it's... five? of us? Different game.

 

[hislittlekitten]

Oh yeah, and... it's been buried a little... but he was searching on online dating services a LOT. And it became difficult to get him to stop checking his messages even when we were spending time together. To the point that I was taking his pants off, at his suggestion to fool around, and he picks up his phone and... checks his OKCupid account.

That felt pretty greedy and excessive. If he really wants to do that, he should be doing that in a time when we aren't supposed to be focusing on each other.

He did, again, though... delete his accounts. He said he has enough women to talk to and sleep with if he wishes. And he's currently demonstrating to me that he is willing to devote the time we've agreed to spend with each other.

 

[Inyourendo]

Nate at one time had 7 other sex partners. I didn't care as long as my boundaries were being respected which meant that my time was my time. Nate has dropped most of them for various reasons (one wanting "more", the other is a smoker etc ) but he's back on tje prowl, mostly he likes strange and once someone is too regular it doesn't have that appeal anymore. It doesn't affect me because he's doing all this on his own time.

 

[GalaGirl]

To the point that I was taking his pants off, at his suggestion to fool around, and he picks up his phone and... checks his OKCupid account.

Talk about not being PRESENT in the moment. Sheesh!

Galagirl

 

[Magdlyn]

Ugh, kitten, calling yourself "his little" anything at this point must feel rather ironic.

You feel what you want to feel. Slut shaming!? Whatever! The man has become suddenly extremely promiscuous, is giving you less time than you'd come to expect, is opening himself and you and his other anchor partner to the potential of disease (I rather doubt he is seeing STD check papers on all his girls), is running off to fuck some strange after having dinner, breaking the agreement he should tell you about anyone new, and checking OKC as you are undressing him for sex???

Gross. Gross, gross, gross. Sure, he has a right to nail 9 million chicks a year. Maybe you don't want to be near all that random casual sex. I am extremely sex positive, but that is just something up with which I would not put.

I wouldn't date someone like that. I would feel rejected, and unappreciated, and unvalued as a person.

You have every right to walk and leave him to his catting around, his conveyor belt of random pussy. God bless and goodbye.

 

[Magdlyn]

BTW, in response to NYCindie, "safer sex" practice is just that, SAFER, not SAFE.

The more women this guy fucks, the more risk he puts himself in. Condoms can break or fall off. Is he drinking? People can forget to put on condoms. And excuse me, but I highly doubt he is seeing "papers" on the new 5 chicks he is banging each week.

Condoms don't protect against everything. He could contract Hep C from unprotected oral sex (highly doubt he is packing dental dams or making sure the women blow him with a condom on his dick). He could get crabs, herpes 1 or 2.

If he wants to put his health at risk, fine. If his pussy parade members don't give a shit about their sexual health, fine. Maybe kitten feels differently.

And I'd like to know what suddenly changed in this guy's psyche to make him content earlier with 2 steadies, and 1 or 2 new people every now and then, to suddenly feel compelled to fuck 5 new strangers every week (to the point of checking messages as sex with her is in progress). I mean, if I were Kitten, I'd want to know why!

 

[hislittlekitten]

Thanks for your replies, Magdlyn.

So, the good news is that he quit his dating sites. I think I've mentioned that.

He still went ahead and slept with those women that week, but for a while - from what I know - kept it to me and his other 'anchor' (good term, might be using that) for a few weeks. Part of this was his schedule, part of this was... who knows what. He's with some girl tonight, don't know if they're having sex or not. But he knows how I feel about this scheduling thing and that I don't want it to happen again.

And he will definitely not be adding more sexual partners anytime soon. Not as long as the dating sites are done with, for now at least.

He has been working harder to make me feel better about things, but it will take me a while to be entirely comfortable.

On a related note, he's having trouble orgasming. Huh, I wonder why.

 

[Vinccenzo]

Perhaps what was bothering you was more about a lack of discrimination. For anyone to have that many partners in such a short amount of time, they can't really be getting to know them more than superficially. As a more invested party in his life could begin to wonder if the "who", any time he is fucking matters at all. In comes the uneasy wonder of whether the "who" matters when he is fucking you. Is he having sex WITH you or just on you? Does he even care or see his partners as people or just options? And if he takes an option simply because its there, is that also the reason why he is with you? Because you stick around or because he genuinely looks forward to your company?

 

[Magdlyn]

Perhaps what was bothering you was more about a lack of discrimination. For anyone to have that many partners in such a short amount of time, they can't really be getting to know them more than superficially. As a more invested party in his life could begin to wonder if the "who", any time he is fucking matters at all. In comes the uneasy wonder of whether the "who" matters when he is fucking you. Is he having sex WITH you or just on you? Does he even care or see his partners as people or just options? And if he takes an option simply because its there, is that also the reason why he is with you? Because you stick around or because he genuinely looks forward to your company?

I agree, Vinccenzo, which is why I brought up the possibility of Don Juan Narcissism syndrome, which I experienced firsthand with my ex.

A Don Juan sociopath loves attention but actually has no compassion or empathy for others. He is without true morals or ethics. He can fake these qualities, and he does, to get with each new "victim." He makes her feel like the most wonderful person in the world, for a while, during his NRE. His NRE is entirely hormonally based. His so-called "love" is an empty concept to him.

It's like a bait and switch. Once he has you hooked, his true agenda comes out, quite clearly. Once my ex got me and my gf/his FWB in the next town, we apparently became boring to him. He then desired fresh prey. He put his charisma to work to start seducing these other women and men.

He was bored in the evenings. He doesn't sleep with his wife, in fact he sleeps in a cabin behind their house. He spent his evenings when I was not available chatting up others, on OKC, Fetlife, Facebook. He went out dancing and seducing women with his highly sexual suggestive exhibitionistic dancing, gazing in their eyes, tracing their bodies with his fingers an inch away from their skin. Oh, he had the moves, all right.

He pretended to care about me, in our talks, but then did whatever he felt like, whether it went contrary to our agreements and my stated needs or not. His actions spoke louder than his words. He never spent the night at my place anymore. When I was living farther away, he would come and spend the night once a week. That would be a 24 hour date. When I moved nearby, he would stop over 2 or 3 times a week for 3 hours. So I was then seeing him 9 hours a week instead of 24, and we wouldn't have the bonding experience of sharing sleep. He'd get his attention fix with me, his sexual pleasure, then go home and chat up, or fuck, others. I realized I was just part of his "narcissistic supply." Interchangeable with the other people he used.

It's "nice," kitten, that he has closed his dating profiles. He acknowledges his plate is full. I should hope so! 7 partners?

Are you happy being one of the interchangeable pussies on the conveyor belt in his factory of sex? Or does sex now feel sort of mechanical?

My ex also had trouble orgasming with me after a while. As you said, I wonder why? Is he using up all his semen on the others? Is he just seeming like a sexual robot? Sex feeling mechanical after a while is another indication you are involved with a Don Juan Narcissist.

I am afraid there are quite a few DJ Narcissists out there in poly land. The term polyamorist doesn't really apply to them, since they are incapable of actually loving. With their charm and charisma, they can fake love for a while, during NRE, but soon enough, the mask falls off and they are revealed as the sociopaths they truly are.

 

[LoveBunny]

I hear you, @hislittlekitten. I understand that you're not making a moral judgment on bf because he's having sex indiscriminately, but it does make you uncomfortable, and honestly, I would feel the same.

One of the reasons I put poly aside in my early thirties was because many of the people I was with in my twenties considered our lifestyle (we didn't have a name for it back then) a free-for-all. I'm no prude, and I certainly don't believe sex is only fulfilling within a committed relationship. Hell, if someone wants to have sex with anyone and everyone who offers, that's their right, and it certainly doesn't make them a bad person as long as everyone is consenting and treating each other kindly.

But....if what to me is a sacred act of communion with another being to you is nothing more than an act of physically relieving yourself of fluids.....There's nothing WRONG with it, but on a personal level, it leaves me cold.

How am I to trust that the act you perform so readily with--whoever--suddenly becomes sacred and loving when you do it with me?

I have a casual FWB, Shane, who is a single swinger. One of the things I love about him is how he can find something attractive in almost everyone. This trait allows him to have sex easily and without great attachment. Now, I believe Shane genuinely appreciates the women he's with when he's with them, and with me, he's never been anything but gracious, giving, and respectful. He was the first man I spent a whole night with outside of my marriage in over 15 years, and he was wonderfully gentle and kind. Though I respect his, shall we say, all-inclusive approach to sexuality, I don't bond with him the way I might with a partner who was more about quality over quantity. That's my truth, it isn't a judgment of him.

@hislittlekitten, preferring not to engage with a very promiscuous partner does not come off to me as slut shaming or sex-negative at all. I think it's a POSITIVE thing to view sex as a loving act, and an exchange of energies--not just bodies slamming together with the sole purpose of getting off.

Maybe you are dealing with someone who can only have sex with "strange," a.k.a people he doesn't care about. If so, that's certainly a disconnect I wouldn't personally want to have to contend with.

 

[hislittlekitten]

A Don Juan sociopath loves attention but actually has no compassion or empathy for others. He is without true morals or ethics. He can fake these qualities, and he does, to get with each new "victim." He makes her feel like the most wonderful person in the world, for a while, during his NRE. His NRE is entirely hormonally based. His so-called "love" is an empty concept to him.

I hope I am not being naive in this case. We have definitely made it through some struggles, and at this point he's demonstrated a lot of dedication and intent with me. I'm not new to intense relationships, and I've often been good at spotting the fakers, so I'm feeling pretty confident that we have something genuine.

He was bored in the evenings. He doesn't sleep with his wife, in fact he sleeps in a cabin behind their house. He spent his evenings when I was not available chatting up others, on OKC, Fetlife, Facebook. He went out dancing and seducing women with his highly sexual suggestive exhibitionistic dancing, gazing in their eyes, tracing their bodies with his fingers an inch away from their skin. Oh, he had the moves, all right.

He pretended to care about me, in our talks, but then did whatever he felt like, whether it went contrary to our agreements and my stated needs or not. His actions spoke louder than his words. He never spent the night at my place anymore. When I was living farther away, he would come and spend the night once a week. That would be a 24 hour date. When I moved nearby, he would stop over 2 or 3 times a week for 3 hours. So I was then seeing him 9 hours a week instead of 24, and we wouldn't have the bonding experience of sharing sleep. He'd get his attention fix with me, his sexual pleasure, then go home and chat up, or fuck, others. I realized I was just part of his "narcissistic supply." Interchangeable with the other people he used.

I'm sorry to hear this when it started to appear that he was doing things that seemed to contradict what he was telling me... it took him some time (days), but upon being called out, he made sure his actions correlated.

I am a little concerned that it takes me pointing out the contradictions, but since he closed the dating profiles and I have asked for more details about his flings, things have been a lot better. And communication has improved immensely.

It's "nice," kitten, that he has closed his dating profiles. He acknowledges his plate is full. I should hope so! 7 partners?

Two have dropped off. One was apparently leading him on, and the other was someone he had considered trying to sleep with - who he decided wanted too much from him (and had stated that she wanted less but wasn't acting like it), so he stopped talking to her.

Another I'm not sure about, but it doesn't sound like he is talking to her either. So it's me, his other 'anchor', one woman who is a VERY infrequent fling, and two women he sees once every approximately two weeks who have strict dating rules and he has made clear are only interested in sex. One of them, in fact, is being asked by one of her partners to be monogamous - and it turns out I had gone out with this partner several times last year and he had proven himself to be a dick.

So that's five partners, two solid partners and three occasional partners. I'm still a little nervous about this and he knows it, so we are spending time talking about these women. It's clear to me they only want sex, but I don't know if it's as indiscriminate as it seemed in the beginning; they seem to be nice women, but I still worry about the fact that they have a lot of partners themselves. One of them wants to hook up with my partner and my metamour.

My ex also had trouble orgasming with me after a while. As you said, I wonder why? Is he using up all his semen on the others? Is he just seeming like a sexual robot? Sex feeling mechanical after a while is another indication you are involved with a Don Juan Narcissist.

We've had a lot of sex lately and it doesn't feel mechanical, but he is having trouble with it. He says he's still having fun with me. I hope that is the truth and I really do want to trust him that he is.

 

[hislittlekitten]

I hear you, @hislittlekitten. I understand that you're not making a moral judgment on bf because he's having sex indiscriminately, but it does make you uncomfortable, and honestly, I would feel the same.

One of the reasons I put poly aside in my early thirties was because many of the people I was with in my twenties considered our lifestyle (we didn't have a name for it back then) a free-for-all. I'm no prude, and I certainly don't believe sex is only fulfilling within a committed relationship. Hell, if someone wants to have sex with anyone and everyone who offers, that's their right, and it certainly doesn't make them a bad person as long as everyone is consenting and treating each other kindly.

But....if what to me is a sacred act of communion with another being to you is nothing more than an act of physically relieving yourself of fluids.....There's nothing WRONG with it, but on a personal level, it leaves me cold.

How am I to trust that the act you perform so readily with--whoever--suddenly becomes sacred and loving when you do it with me?

I have a casual FWB, Shane, who is a single swinger. One of the things I love about him is how he can find something attractive in almost everyone. This trait allows him to have sex easily and without great attachment. Now, I believe Shane genuinely appreciates the women he's with when he's with them, and with me, he's never been anything but gracious, giving, and respectful. He was the first man I spent a whole night with outside of my marriage in over 15 years, and he was wonderfully gentle and kind. Though I respect his, shall we say, all-inclusive approach to sexuality, I don't bond with him the way I might with a partner who was more about quality over quantity. That's my truth, it isn't a judgment of him.

@hislittlekitten, preferring not to engage with a very promiscuous partner does not come off to me as slut shaming or sex-negative at all. I think it's a POSITIVE thing to view sex as a loving act, and an exchange of energies--not just bodies slamming together with the sole purpose of getting off.

Maybe you are dealing with someone who can only have sex with "strange," a.k.a people he doesn't care about. If so, that's certainly a disconnect I wouldn't personally want to have to contend with.

Thank you for this. I think we have some shared values.

I think he does enjoy something "different" on occasion. Before he started doing this, it was his other partner for ~8 months and me for ~5 months. Just the two of us. I'm confident of that.

Then I brought in a woman for a threesome, and when I was away, someone he had warned me would be a potential sex-only interests did indeed become one, and after that it was this avalanche.

I'm proud of him for closing his dating profiles and I'm really happy to see that he has been emotionally responding to me really well. Of course I have my concerns, but I think at this point it will be a months-long wait/observation period to see if we have re-engineered our expectations, agreements, and feelings to work for what we both want. I don't want to deny him the availability of occasionally taking another partner - I'm not in a place to jump from poly to monogamy so easily, despite monogamy being my ideal, because it would change a LOT of things - but I do want him to be more cautious.

He has a habit of "going back" to something he takes a break from really, really easily. So again, a little more time to see how he really goes about this would be good.

Thanks for your perspective, much appreciated.

 

[SchrodingersCat]

Not everyone who goes through these sexual phases is a narcissist. Lots of people go through it as a coping mechanism for some kind of trauma, until they figure out that they need help, and get it. Both my partners went through the whole fuck-as-many-people-as-you-can thing in their early 20s (long before I met them), before eventually figuring out what they were using sex to replace, and then dealt with their shit.

Some people do just love lots of sex with lots of different people, and there's nothing wrong with that. Of course they're increasing their risk, and yours by being with them. Then you need to figure out what risk you can tolerate, and find out if he's genuinely willing to do that, or if he feels like he's giving something up. If he's not truly agreeable, it's not really an agreement.

For the record, "greedy" isn't a feeling. It's a judgement. Feelings are more like scared, uncomfortable, maybe a little nauseous? You feel those things because you need to be safe, and you believe his behaviour risks your safety. Does that sound about right?