I don't how to do this

[Reptigal]

Hi,

I've come here seeking help and advice. I'm a 23 yr old woman. I've been in a mono relationship with my fiance, Paul, for four years. Four months ago we met a young woman, Thecla, while traveling to a concert. She was looking for a ride. We all hit it off. I thought she'd be a great friend. Then a few weeks later, Paul tells me he's attracted to Thecla, and wants to have a threesome with her. I was hesitant. I like her, but I'm not attracted to her.

Then just recently he tells me he wants to have a relationship with her, and have her be his girlfriend, or rather, our gf. This has completely come out of left field for me. He's always touted monogamy as being the utmost important thing in a relationship and now he's changed on me.

I'm confused, hurt and feel like I'm coming apart. I can't stop crying and I feel lower than dirt. I love him, I've given him everything. He saved me from a terrible relationship. He helped me heal from past abuses I experienced. I was fully prepared for a mono relationship with him, and now I feel like I'm about to lose everything I've known and held dear.

I don't know if I can give him what he wants. I don't want to lose more time with him. He spends hours with Thecla working on music and chatting online. I feel like I'm competing for his time, for his attention. I just don't know what to do. I don't who to talk to. I feel I can't talk to our family or friends about this. I feel isolated and alone.

Please, somebody help me. I need help to save my relationship.

 

[redpepper]

In my opinion, you should not do anything for Paul. You owe him nothing. It's time to stand on your own two feet, I think. He helped you through a hard time, and that was a great gift. You can appreciate that. But now it's time to change it up, it seems. You are your own person. So what's next for you?

You don't have to accept non-monogamy. You are fully entitled to be monogamous. You are best as yourself. He is pushing that. That's fine, but it's time to figure out where you are with him, with yourself, and with your future.

So he has asked for a relationship with Thecla, and to have it be between the three of you. You say you aren't interested. Okay, so that's out. Tell him that first. Secondly, he wants to have her be his girlfriend. Okay. Where are you at with that? Could you accept that with certain time constraints in place? A balance that is more suitable than you have now? What are your requests with that?

If you find all this unacceptable, that is fine. But sit on it a bit. Do some searches here, educate yourself. Ask him to slow down so that you might catch up. Consider all your options for yourself, and then start laying all your thoughts out for him. He gets to do that too, and so negotiation begins. Later, Thecla gets her say. You can cross that bridge when you get to it. He might have an idea already. This is what has worked for me in the past, anyway... and others.

He might have said he is mono all the way, but things change. Everything is fluid and time moves on. Should he have been so certain? Probably not. But he likely was at the time. Now he's not. I suggest cutting him some slack and moving forward, rather than dwelling on what once was.

 

[BlackUnicorn]

Wow, it sure sounds to me, someone who doesn't know anything else about your guy or your relationship in general, that he thought he was mono, has recently discovered he might not be, and thinks it will be a little less like cheating if he brings Thecla into your bed. Although I realize this might be very common for people just starting on the path of non-monogamy, to me it seems disrespectful as hell.

Most relationships end up blurring the lines between "me" and "you" a bit. But this is his discovery, his project. That doesn't mean you have to get on the bandwagon with him.

 

[Magdlyn]

Wow, Reptigal, I am sure you are just reeling, and your emotional pain is through the roof! Many hugs.

Did you and Paul have a date set for the wedding? Is it possible he is having cold feet around that? I assume he is close in age to you?

Now as for this new OW in your life, he has gone about this very badly. Sure, he'd love a hot threeway sex scene with you and his new crush, Thecla. That's the most common male fantasy out there. Unfortunately, the reality is rarely as nice as the fantasy, unless you are an experienced swinger with lots of boundaries in place.

Is Thecla bisexual, attracted to you, and also interested in threeway sex, or an actual emotional/sexual relationship with you?

If you're not bisexual, and Paul knows you're not, it's stupid/selfish of him to suggest this arrangement.

It's also quite rude of him to just get infatuated, announce it to you, and then spend tons of hours with the new girl, as you stagger around and have your entire world rocked.

Most formerly mono couples who succeed at opening their relationships take things very slowly, at the more reluctant partner's pace. Paul needs to stop thinking with his dick and have a reality check. This isn't poly (yet); it's basically cheating with a little nice language tacked on.

 

[redpepper]

He thought he was mono, has recently discovered he might not be, and thinks it will be a little less like cheating if he brings her into your bed.

It's very common for people just starting on the path of non-monogamy.

Most relationships end up blurring the lines between "me" and "you" a bit.

Agreeing here. Very common theme. "I don't want to cheat, so why don't we share?" I did this once with my ex-wife and PN. It ended in a tragic mess.

Monogamy seems to breed co-dependence in relationships. When a couple is merged with each other so that there are no lines defining where one person end and the other begins, it gets tricky when one person wants to break away from that.

I don't mean to say that being bonded is bad. Connection, intimacy, considering one's partner, planning and doing things together is not bad, but then, that is not co-dependency, as far as I know it. Co-dependency is when one person cannot move without the other coming along too. You can hardly take a shit without the other knowing about it and being right by your side.

There is a healthy line between one person and the next that needs respecting, imo. It means one can have ownership over themselves, not others. They can own their feelings, actions and desires. Your man doesn't seem to be doing this, and it makes me think that the two of you are a bit co-dependent, or perhaps a lot.

This will take some separating out to determine what is his, what is yours, and what you are willing to share. Having been through this before, emotions aside, what is shared is time together. Boundaries can be created for that quite easily, but it means that everyone has to be on board with having their own life, goals, hobbies, whatever.

His is Thecla, right now. Yours are what? Reading, self-help, crocheting, schoolwork? This is what needs determining. Once you have something of your own to grasp on to, the time he spends with her is not as hard to swallow. Eventually you might even look forward to when he is not around, so you can get on to your own stuff, all the while looking forward to the date you have planned with him for later.

When a partner decides they are poly, and goes ahead and NRE's all over the place, it can be a slap in the face of their established partner, because they are used to a certain amount of attention and time. Or they are co-dependent. The feeling is one of devastation when the partner pulls away to be with another. That feeling is a sign to me that I need to look at my own life, as mine is too wrapped up in what they are doing.

There is nothing wrong with being wrapped up. Nothing at all. Monogamous couples do just fine this way, and so do some poly vees and triads. The point is to adjust to being wrapped up in other things too, and find a balance between being wrapped up in a partner and one's own interests.

 

[IndieSolo]

It's also quite rude of him to just get infatuated, announce it to you, and then spend tons of hours with the new girl, as you stagger around and have your entire world rocked.

I agree with this.

What occurred to me while reading your post is that Thecla might have been working on Paul to influence him in a way that would make him want her, and move away from you. But he's fighting that and saying, "Can I have you both?" Possibly it's not really what he wants (being with her), but she's done her thing to him. The red flag for me is all the time they spend together and chatting online. If she were really a friend of you both, and respected his monogamous relationship with you, she would curtail those activities with just him. When I was married, my husband and I called women like that "Splitters," as in "Relationship Splitter," a term used by some people who lead workshops on relationships that I used to attend.

In poly, they call women like that "cowgirls," because they want to move the guy away from his other relationships and have him to herself, like taking a steer away from the herd.

A Splitter is often someone who is very self-centered in wanting all the love they can get directed their way. As kids, they were often the ones who would wriggle between their parents when they saw them kissing. As grown-ups, they often find themselves befriending married monogamous people, and then throwing up their hands when the spouse gets upset and say, "We're just friends!" But there are subtle ways they work their voodoo. Sometimes women like that are not consciously aware of these patterns of behavior they have, and wonder why they get into these kinds of situation over and over again, and only have male friends because women don't trust them around their mates.

Paul may just be under her spell. I think stepping back and not seeing Thecla for a while might help him sort out his feelings, and see if he might have been played by a woman like that. He might just be thinking with his penis.

He certainly has a responsibility to you and your relationship. Everything you wrote in your first post was very valid, as things you could say to him. You might ask him to also come and register here and read this thread.

Be strong. So sorry you're hurting! Welcome to the forum.

 

[Reptigal]

I'd just to thank everyone for being so nice. I feel that I should clear a few things up, as when I wrote my original post I was very emotional and may have left dome important deets out.

The good news is, we are communicating about the situation. I've made my feelings known, and told Paul I need more time with him, because I feel I'm being shoved away.

A few quick things...
1. We are two years apart in age. I'm 23, he's about to turn 25.
2. We are engaged, but have no wedding date set, because we are in the process of saving money so we can have the wedding we want.
3. We work opposite hours. He works 8-5. I work two part-time jobs in the evenings and on weekends. This has caused some issues.
4. He's in a band with Thecla. They have to communicate/collaborate on their music.
5. I'm not bisexual, but I have found myself attracted to the occasional woman. I would fool around with another woman if I found her attractive enough.

I sat Paul down to talk about this whole thing, because I couldn't stand feeling like shit. I explained my fears of him leaving me. (And yes, I do think I'm co-dependent in some areas.) He insisted he wants to be with me, loves me, wants to marry me. He said he doesn't understand why he feels this way about Thecla. He apologized for putting me in this situation. I explained that I have doubts about her, and am having trouble trusting both of them. He says she claims that if he left me for her, she wouldn't take him (which I'm a little skeptical about), but I'm trying to give him the opportunity to prove to me he's being honest.

He's agreed to make more time for me, and once we get out of the hockey season (which is taking away most of our time together, because I have to be at work to broadcast the NHL games), we will take the time to get out together and make up some time. I've requested he slow down with Thecla. I said I need time to think this through and a chance to educate myself.

I'm still uncomfortable about some of this. I feel bad that I secretly hope that by not agreeing to him being allowed to "date" her eventually, the feeling will die down. I know that's wrong and manipulative and I don't want to be like that.

I wouldn't mind their communication so much if it were only when I was at work or at skating lessons, but it happens even when I'm home and I think that is having more of an effect on me.

Once again, thanks for all your kindness and understanding, and for not judging me harshly.

 

[FlameKat]

my two cents

From your last post, I would think it within your right to ask Paul to set aside specific times for when he does 'band stuff' when you are around, and that the rest of the time is yours, no interruptions from Thecla during your time, at least for now, while you are adjusting.

Another option would be for you to take an interest and join in with the 'band stuff.' And again, I would stipulate that non-band time is to have no interruptions from Thecla for now.

 

[Reptigal]

Is there a way we can make this work?

I'm mono and I know it. I want both of us to be happy. I'm not ready to just walk away from this relationship. It's not just about him and me. Our families are close. They have all bonded. We've become one big family. I'm really afraid what other family members would say if they found out.

I want to know how we can start slow. What do we do? What restrictions am I reasonably allowed to set right now?

If I let him escort her to events she doesn't want to go to alone, albeit they don't have sex, is that unfair? Am I allowed to say right now they are not allowed to kiss? Should I confront her about hogging up all his time? Should I talk to her in person about it?

I want us to try and work this out. I don't think just walking away is right, and would be a huge mistake if we didn't try to work it out.

How slow is too slow?

Sorry, I know I'm bombarding you all with questions. I just really need to be able to talk to somebody, and it feels safe here.

 

[BlackUnicorn]

I'm really afraid what other family members would say if they found out.

Often in situations like yours, family will side up with the partner they see as the underdog. In your case, that would be you, the partner who's not poly. Having the family gang up on one or the other can really mess up relationships, so you are reasonable to feel afraid of it getting out at this point, when everything is still very new. However, people in general want their loved ones to be happy. If you make sure that you are happy in the relationship, that is bound to reflect on your family, if and when you choose to disclose your situation to them.

I want to know how we can start slow. What do we do? What restrictions am I reasonably allowed to set right now?

Communicate, eat, drink water, communicate, sleep, exercise, communicate some more, cry, take a break, think, communicate, go to work, continue communicating.

You are allowed as many restrictions you want right now. You must also understand that Paul might have hard time keeping to them. But I think it is reasonable to ask them both to slow down enough so you can get on the same page, and to be honest.

If I let him escort her to events she doesn't want to go to alone, albeit they don't have sex, is that unfair? Am I allowed to say right now they are not allowed to kiss? Should I confront her about hogging up all his time? Should I talk to her in person about it?

No. Yes. Yes. Definitely yes! Please remember you are allowed to feel the things you feel and ask for the time you need. The more time they spend together, the more likely it is that some restrictions will be tip-toed around and maybe broken. It's imperative you talk to Thecla about how you feel. She might only be getting her info from Paul, and needs to hear how you feel, and why you feel that some things, like constant online chatting, are corrosive to your situation, atm.

How slow is too slow?

There is no such thing as too slow.

 

[SNeacail]

Is there a way we can make this work?

Others have done it. There is always a way. It's just a matter of what each of you are willing to do to make it work. Spend some time (days/weeks/months) reading in the Poly Relationships and Blogs sections here.

I want to know how we can start slow. What do we do? What restrictions am I reasonably allowed to set right now?

Do a search for "boundaries," and look through the threads posted in the "Golden Nuggets" section. There are a lot of discussions on these topics. It really helps to see what others have done, what tends to work and not work.

How slow is too slow?

This is another topic that comes up a lot, look for the threads. Sorry don't know the "tag" for this one (RP would ). The consensus seems to be to set timelines on how long you're allowed to stay in certain holding patterns.

There is no such thing as too slow.

Yes there is. It's not uncommon for people to use going slow as a tactic to stall all progress, hense the need for deadlines for each step.

 

[MonoVCPHG]

I'm a little pessimistic here, sorry.

I don't know when you are going to get married, but might I suggest a very long engagement, at least until you see how you deal if this other relationship does happen?

I'm also a bit sceptical when people all of a sudden feel polyamorous because they "fall in love," or want to have sex with another person. Sometimes people actually lose connection with their partner, but don't have the strength to deal with it. That's what happened for me. Poly can be wonderful, but it can also be used as trendy cover to mask some pretty basic human behaviour.

Be careful-- think about all aspects of your future and definitely ask both of them very hard questions. You're talking about getting married; marriage sets couples apart in a very integrated way. Would Thecla be okay with that? Will you be okay telling your bridesmaids about your fiance's girlfriend?

Protect your heart, be understanding that this could be very real for Paul, and think further down the road. You obviously want a long future with this man, so looking at the big picture is highly recommended.

 

[Magdlyn]

Okay. Gosh. So you're both quite young, being responsible, planning to get married as soon as you can afford it.

You're working hard at jobs on different shifts, to save up for the wedding of your dreams. Then Miss Rock and Roller steps into the picture, joins Paul's band, gets to see him at practice, and then they both also choose to spend online time together during the rare time you and he have together.

This is not polyamory, this is Paul getting tired of acting like an adult and wanting to have a bit of fun on the side.

If it were me, I'd request he stop all online communication with Thecla unless it's the simplest thing, like setting up when the band is going to meet. No dates, no kissing, no talking to her when it's one of the rare times you and he have together. You two need to talk, and have dates, and make time for good sex, and all the other stuff you did back when you were first falling in love. If he can't or won't agree to this, he probably doesn't want to get married. He doesn't deserve your trust and commitment.

Good luck!

 

[IndieSolo]

The good news is we are communicating about the situation. I've made my feelings known and told him that I need more time with him because I feel I'm being shoved away.

Yes, that is a good start in the right direction.

He said he doesn't understand why he feels this way about her.

Eh, it's just chemicals (from the vibe she's directing his way). He's letting himself get carried away, perhaps getting scared of the bigger event that is looming, marriage.

I've requested he slow down with her. Told him I need time to think this through and a chance to educate myself.

I'm still uncomfortable about some of this. I feel bad that I secretly hope that by not agreeing to him being allowed to "date" her eventually the feeling will die down. I know that's wrong and manipulative. I don't want to be like that. I wouldn't mind their communication so much if it were only when I was at work or at skating lessons, but it happens even when I'm home, and I think that is having more of an effect on me.

Your feelings are not wrong. They are simply your feelings.

I don't think it's enough to just say, "Go slow," without defining what that means. Otherwise, it's too open for interpretation. I think it's very reasonable to ask that Paul limit his contact with her to band-related stuff only, and not during off time from the band, unless it's for scheduling. He needs to extricate himself from her spell so he can see things more clearly.

I want to know how we can start slow. What do we do? What restrictions am I reasonably allowed to set right now?

If I let him escort her to events she doesn't want to go to alone, albeit they don't have sex, is that unfair?

This is bullshit. Let her get someone else to escort her. Aren't there other dudes in the band or in her life? Why is she glomming onto him? She seems to be zeroing in. Why does he feel like he needs to accompany her? That is weird.

Oh, and you're very sweet, but really, he's your fiance, and you guys are a monogamous couple. Just because he brought up this possibility and you're reading up on polyamory doesn't mean you now are selfish to ask that your FIANCE not have sex with anyone else. You both have made a commitment to each other. Where is his allegiance to that commitment and respect for it, and to you? Is it something he can toss aside so easily when someone else shakes her thing around him?

That's why I think he needs time away from her, as limited as possible - and not just for a few days or weeks, either -- so he can examine whether or not he really wants to be polyamorous, or if it's just some infatuation with someone who could just see him as a casual fling, or a conquest. What would the damage be to his relationship with you if he went that route? He needs to redirect his energies back to his relationship with you in order to see if he really does feel the need for more relationships in his life.

Am I allowed to say right now they are not allowed to kiss? Should I confront her about hogging up all his time? Should I talk to her in person about it?

He's your fiance, and you guys are not in a poly relationship. All these things are reasonable, IMHO.

By the way, I don't really think Thecla is your friend. I think she wants your man, though she denies it. Or she gets off on the drama, or it feeds her ego to be able to attract someone who's "taken." Paul needs to shake himself out of his dream world and get back to planet earth, get back to relationship with you.

Oh, and what Flamekat wrote bears repeating:

From your last post, I would think it within your right to ask him to set aside specific times for when he does 'band stuff' when you are around, and that the rest of the time is yours, no interruptions from Thecla during your time, at least for now, while you are adjusting.

Another option would be for you to take an interest and join in with the 'band stuff.' I would stipulate that non-band time is to have no interruptions from Thecla.

 

[Reptigal]

@Magdlyn @nycindie



1. Thecla lives in our home city, but she's not from there. We live five hours away. (Yay for moving for jobs.)

2. Paul and Thecla are the only band members. He's been a solo musician since he was a young teen.

3. Because of where we live, they do all their band stuff via Skype and IM chatting.

Thecla is supposed to be visiting us next month... to "work on music stuff." I want to write out some conditions I have for them and confront them over everything. I want to lay down everything I feel I have a right to, thanks to you all.

I also want to direct Paul to this forum, because if he thinks this is what he wants, then he better start doing some reading. I'm not going to be responsible for everything. I really think that he needs to take some action, and prove to me whether or not this is what he wants.

 

[Magdlyn]

Wait a minute. She doesn't live nearby, yet they are forming a musical duo? Which gives them an excuse to chat online all the time? So they aren't actually practicing music together, just chatting about music and whatever else they feel like chatting about?

He has always played solo, yet is now wanting to play music with her, even though she lives five hours away, and even though he is engaged to be married?

All I can say is, hmm...

 

[Reptigal]

They just released an EP. It's electronica music, mostly computerized synths, less real instruments. They are actually making music, but they also chat a lot.

 

[IndieSolo]

I think directing Paul to this site and your thread is a good idea. It's a very healthy thing you said about not wanting to be the only one doing the work. It has to be a two-way street.

You both met Thecla when she needed a ride, and now she's really wound her way in. Yes, I think boundaries are in order here!

 

[redpepper]

Thecla is supposed to be visiting us next month, to "work on music stuff." I want to write out some conditions I have for them and confront them over everything. I want to lay down everything I feel I have a right to thank to you all.

I also want to direct Paul to this forum, because if he thinks this is what he wants then he better start doing some reading. I'm not going to be responsible for everything. I really think that he needs to take some action and prove to me whether or not this is what he wants.

All good ideas. Start writing. And get him to join us. We don't bite. We know there is always two sides to everything. It sounds like he might benefit from heads-up on some things.

I would wonder how much of this is music-related. "Yay, something to share with someone that my girlfriend, whom I hardly see, because she's at work, doesn't enjoy as much as me! I'm so in love with this other woman because she gets my music and we make beautiful music together."

Hmm... I wonder how much of this is going through his mind. The fact that they just released something together is like their love child. How many popular musicians do you know that went through this same thing? Music is awesome, and so is online romance, with glimpses of the person in between. But it isn't real life, i.e., taking the garbage out, dishes, laundry and still loving the person you are with in real life. Maybe this should all just slow down, until some stuff is sorted out as to "why" this has happened.

It all sounds like a bit of a fantasy, to me. If you were all good before Thecla came along, I would really look at what he thinks he was missing in his life before diving into a relationship with her. That is the kind of relationship you enter after you work out your shit with the person you are with.

 

[Reptigal]

So, an interesting development. Paul went home this past weekend, to

1. Visit with his mom, because his grandfather (her dad) passed away, and we weren't able to to afford to fly to St. Vincent to be at the funeral, and to
2. Work on music with Thecla.

Apparently, while on the road, his mother called him. She felt something was up with him and Thecla, and wasn't happy about it. I should point out that she is very old school and religious. She kinda freaked when we announced we were moving in together and not getting married right away. They had a serious argument, with her insisting we should just go up to the courthouse (at her expense) and get married.

Needless to say, he didn't take that too well. Now, I wouldn't be offended if he turned around and said he wanted to go to the courthouse and get married next month, but I'm not the kind of person to force someone into something they don't feel ready to do.

So with all of that, he and I had a serious discussion. I've laid it all out, what I want, what I need. He's started reading up on poly relationships, and I hope he starts visiting a forum like this one and begins asking questions. He says he's starting to see where I'm coming from and has promised to try to fix the mistakes he's made. We're communicating more. We're gonna start spending time together again.

I still think (and hope) this is just a crush, and once we spend some good quality time together, he'll realize what he was missing and we can get back to it. I still don't know if I can be in a poly relationship. I still need time to figure this all out.