I'm in over my head

Okay, time out

Hi Freetime,

I don't know your background, so I can't project whether you will listen to any of this with an open mind or not.

It's important to understand that the desire and curiosity to experience something/someone new is totally natural. That's biology. It has nothing to do with any other person, nothing to do with a "twisted definition of love," etc. It's biological, and some people experience it at different levels. Also, some people are more successful at suppressing their natural needs or desires than others, and deceiving themselves that they are doing something valorous.

It's bullshit, plain and simple. It's just not how mammals are constructed.

But we have the big brains, right? So we analyze, over-analyze, create all manner of fantastic stories to suit ourselves. And we suffer. Needlessly.

I'd suggest, for starters, getting a copy of Sex at Dawn and giving it a good read. Before you go off condemning yourself or anyone else, get an understanding of biology. Things may fall into place much better from there.

It's all good. Hang in there.
 
Writing things down, here or to Jen, have definitely helped me. Talking through everything has gotten me to the basis of my fears. For me, it seems codependency is what is driving my fear of poly. I'm not saying that is what is going on with you.

Just keep talking. Figure out what it is that makes you not accept it. I initially felt the same way, oddly enough. I didn't really have a problem with FWBs. But after a couple weeks, that wasn't what I wanted at all. I wanted Jen to have that emotional connection. But then I started fearing that, as well.

I have a little notepad thing on my phone. Lately I've been jotting things down as they pop into my head. I have a bad memory, so if I write it down, it helps me to remember what it was. Writing things down has helped me a lot.

As far as getting another girlfriend, it's weird. It's something I would kind of like to do, since I think it would help me to understand where Jen is coming from. But at the same time, I don't really want to divide my time. So I think, for now, having a secondary relationship is pretty much off the books. Maybe sometime down the line, when I am more in control of my codependency... But I'm not in a rush to find another, since I'm perfectly happy with Jen.
 
Ever since I've been with someone who was with someone else, I've always wondered what it'd be like for me to be dating two people, or to have my primary partner (if I had one) decide to date someone else. I guess I won't really know unless it happens someday. But I fall in love so infrequently, I doubt I'll be worrying about it in the near future.

Maybe you and your wife will have a poly/mono relationship. Do you think you'd be interested in dating others?

Isn't it funny how we typically imagine things to be one way and we're so often completely wrong about what the other person was thinking/feeling?

On a lighter note, what kind of martial arts have you done?
 
I'm glad things between you and the wife are a bit better since you decided to open up.

It's amazing what polyamory brings up. I have found that it definitely means that processing my stuff happens faster and is far more a priority than when I have been in mono relationships. Everything I do and say affects people in my tribe, therefore, I must make sure I am on top of my stuff all the time. There is no hiding it and no getting away from facing up to situations and who I am. It has made me very real, feel vulnerable and trusting. Yet the love I have experienced and been privileged to give is immense.

I suggest that you, and your wife, and this man she is dating get settled a bit more before you seek a girlfriend. If this man was an adjustment, another person coming along would mean more adjustment. There is no rush. If a girlfriend is to come into your life, it will happen when it happens, when you are ready. Sometimes people push the envelope, work hard to find another, and don't work on themselves and the relationship they have with themselves first. Being your own primary is very important. It is my top priority.

It sounds like you have some things to do while your wife is out. That is awesome and is great for self care.

My husband started a self-help kick when I met Mono. He decided to use that time to better himself and work on some of the lifelong issues he has had around fear and anxiety. He now has a website (http://www.therealizedself.com/) that he has a year's worth of material to put on. He is starting to think about writing a book. He never had time to write when it was mostly him and me. Now he has that time and looks forward to it. He has grown and changed into a strong man who is proud of what he has created within himself. He is alive now like never before. I'm so pleased for him.

As to the closeness between your wife and this man, I would suggest getting to know him. He is your ally, not your enemy. If he is like most secondaries, he has huge respect and honour for you. Why not let him show that by showing him you are big enough to accept he loves her? He will be very grateful and respectful in return, I think. At least, that has been my experience.

Why not invite him to come together with you, to love the woman your wife is? She will feel honoured and loved in a way that is very special, I should think. It's such a gift to give someone that much love. You will have this returned to you by giving and by creating a bond with your metamour that is vital to the health of your V, and could be a huge benefit to your life. She will find she is compelled to love you more if you are communicating and giving her love by accepting whom she loves. This is what happens, more often than not, it seems.
 
Carma said:
My husband has also narrowed his life down over the years. He counted on me to be the social director and the one growing and learning, while he just went to work and came home. We realize now that he needs to work on himself.

. . . It sounds like you are also a very understanding, caring man who loves his wife very much. Do her a favor and give her the BEST gift you could ever, ever give her -- the BEST you, the REAL you. Find him again!
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This is what happened to my husband and me. We had turned our life together into a very small, isolated, insular world. Unfortunately, he didn't start therapy or questioning how we went about our marriage until several months after he moved out. I am glad he is getting in touch with himself and discovering what beliefs and patterns drove him to make the decisions he did, but it could possibly have healed our relationship -- whether we stayed together or not -- if he had begun this self-examination process three years ago when he first started thinking of divorce (and did not communicate his feelings to me until he left). He recently told me that he realized he's never had a period in his life in which he wasn't in a long-term relationship and he is totally enjoying being on his own right now, for the first time since he was 18. (He is now 52.)

Beodude123 said:
Talking through everything has gotten me to the basis of my fears. Codependency is driving my fear of polyamory.
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Beodude, I think I'm developing a crush on you. :) Seriously, you come across as so likable and genuine, and very willing to look at and work on your issues. I feel honored to observe your process. I hope you keep writing. It uplifts others to read your story as much as it benefits you.

Ah, the pain that can happen when we depend on others as the sole source of the "positive strokes" we want to boost up our feelings of self-worth!

Freetime said:
I'm a very outgoing, funny human being, but you'd not know it by looking at how I've lived. Time to change that, it seems.
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Yes, indeed!
 
nycindie said:
Beodude, I think I'm developing a crush on you. :) Seriously, you come across as so likable and genuine, and very willing to look at and work on your issues. I feel honored to observe your process.
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Bwhahahaha! I know your type. You crush on all kinds of dudes. Doesn't make me feel special! :p But, I'm glad that you draw inspiration from my process. It's been very difficult. But with learning comes growth, and that is what Jen and I have been doing.

There isn't much of me that I hide. I'm pretty open about everything, I've never been one to hide much. When Jen came out as poly, though, it definitely forced me out of a shell. I was a rock in that place (before poly), an immovable object. I was the king of my world. Damnit if that's not the truth.

My realizations lately are kind of opposite to that, but the same, as well. I'm still battling with wanting to take up Jen's time, but starting to be able to let go. I'm also realizing that I can be my own person again, without Jen. It's hard, but I'm getting there.

I just hope that maybe others can draw parallels as I have, and learn from what I have.
 
nycindie said:
Yes, all kinds. I'm an equal-opportunity crusher. But not very many. So you really are special! ;)
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There are a lot of special people here, but I don't think many are quite my caliber. Most are actually special. Me, I'm just special. Like, wearing a white helmet while riding the short bus to school, licking the windows, and telling everybody how much I love the taste of two stroke premixed into my RX-8 in the morning...

All that aside, I want to go drive my car tomorrow.
 
Beodude123 said:
There are a lot of special people here, but I don't think many are quite my caliber. Most are actually special. Me, I'm just special. Like, wearing a white helmet while riding the short bus to school, licking the windows, and telling everybody how much I love the taste of two stroke premixed into my RX-8 in the morning...

All that aside, I want to go drive my car tomorrow.
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LOL! New-found awesomeness. I have been following your posts too. I very much admire the process you are undertaking. It is inspiring to read along as you go.
 
Wow... You folks ask tough questions. I'm glad you do though, as it makes me look at myself and what I believe in a completely different way, and at a much greater depth then I would have done otherwise. So, thank you.

After considering much of what has been offered up here, I've come to the following painful conclusions.

1) I'm afraid of my wife falling for another man and leaving me.

2) I have trust issues when she assures me otherwise.

3) I'm trying to control that which is beyond my purview.

Okay, let's start with Number 1.

This has more to do with my own self-image issues that I described earlier. But it also has a basis in what I know about my wife. She wouldn't have a sexual ongoing relationship with someone whom she doesn't care for/love. It's not her way. Yes, she loves me. But even knowing this, the fear remains.

2) My past haunts me still, it seems.

3) Letting go and trusting in the process is both my answer and my dilemma. I get it as the doorway to acceptance, but have no idea how to get there.

You folks have been like a room full of Yodas, only taller and with more hair... I hope. I decided that when I started posting here I'd do what you suggested, as I didn't seem to be at all friendly with the truth and what was actually happening in my own marriage, and it hasn't been easy. Dealing with so many emotions and off-base beliefs in such a short period of time has been very painful. But it has also been a mechanism to reawaken both my marriage and my life. It's just a start right now, but I've felt more alive in the last 4-5 days then I have in years. I am both grateful to you for your help, and saddened that it took so long for me to start growing up. It's somewhat embarrassing to be so wrong about my initial perceptions (see first post), but spiritually uplifting to know I may make it through this a much better human being for doing so.

NYCindie, thanks for the encouragement!

Beodude123, talking truthfully and openly has indeed made a huge difference. I'm still feeling somewhat out of my depth discussing it, but it beats living a lie, ya know?

Redpepper
It's amazing what polyamory brings up. I have found that it definitely means that processing my stuff happens faster and is far more a priority than at times I have been in monoamorous relationships. Everything I do and say affects people in my tribe. Therefore, I must make sure I am on top of my stuff all the time. There is no hiding it, and no getting away from facing up to situations and who I am. It has made me very real, feel vulnerable and trusting, yet the love I have experienced and been privileged to give is immense.
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Getting to the core of my concerns, and to the truth of what is actually happening here are taking place much faster then I expected. Being real and vulnerable aren't my strong suits, but I'm trying. I hope to experience what you have one day. My wife and I have a strong soul bond, but I had come to doubt myself and it, based on nothing more than baseless fear and childish mistrust.

I'm going back to my MA classes next week. I am looking at courses at our local university to exercise my brain. I need to take my brain out for a walk, a talk and perhaps a bath. It's been lying around in the dark, eating bad thoughts and deep-fried fear for far too long.

As for meeting the other guy, that's happening this Wednesday, so wish me well. Any advice on the meeting will be appreciated. I promised my wife I'd not talk about guns, martial arts or club affiliations, so I may need some help in the conversation planning, I think.

Ray, no kidding! The system I'm currently working with is called Kuk Sool. It is deceptively simple but awesomely practical, and great for a guy with back issues.

GroundedSpirit: Thanks for the book reference. I ordered it.

ImaginaryIllusion, tou ask some tough questions, ya know? I have had to re-examine just about everything I thought I knew about myself, my wife and our relationship, and do so with ruthless abandon. Painful? Oh yes, indeed, also insightful and quietly inspirational.

By the way, I have no idea what this means: but if you're worried about the classic wife 'opposite day' thing. I'm slow... Use small words.

Thanks for the insight and encouragement.

Carma, thanks for the welcome and the shared experience. Lots of info for me to process.

Vodkafan, I'm still working my way through your journey here. I'm sorta curious what I may be posting 8 months from now.

Goodnight, folks. You make my head hurt, but in a good way, I think.
 
Freetime said:
I need to take it brain out for a walk, a talk and perhaps a bath. it's been lying around in the dark eating bad thoughts and deep-fried fear for far too long.

Goodnight, folks. You make my head hurt, but in a good way, I think.
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Cute. :)

Good luck on the meeting Wednesday. It will be all three of you, I presume? The fact that you are willing to meet speaks volumes, already removes much of the tension right off the bat. Two men being mature enough not to go all orangutan on each other -- very admirable. You both share something so precious -- the opinion that she is a wonderful human being. So for starters, this guy has great taste. I liked it when my husband and my bf would meet up; I felt protected, respected and cherished by both of them. It was lovely.

I think it helps to keep in mind that our traditional views of marriage are skewed. Women are no longer "property;" we are people. Love is much bigger than the possessive little thing we have made it into, using old standards of religion and economics, among others, to define relationships. You are to be commended for having a love that is big enough to consider a new way. Wishing you the best. :)
 
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Thanks, Carma. Any advice on meeting him? Guidelines, topics?

To clear up some confusion I've caused here, the potential BF doesn't know he's a potential yet. My wife met him at an event, they hit it off, and have met a couple of times since at other events, where she realized she wanted to approach him about having a relationship. She had set up the meeting to bring it up with him, but he canceled. Well, actually, he didn't bother to call her and cancel. He just didn't call her at all to confirm it. Hmm...

We've discussed how funny it is that she and I have experienced so much emotional turmoil and excitement over something that hasn't happened yet, with someone who's completely unaware of what's going on. Weird little world, ain't it?
 
Freetime said:
As for meeting the other guy, that's happening this Wednesday. Any advice on the meeting will be appreciated. I may need some help with the conversation planning.
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Probably a good plan. The last thing your wife probably wants to do is get in the middle of a Shooting Edge vs Firing Line discussion, or my MA style can beat up your MA style. Let's go outside and prove it.

Freetime said:
ImaginaryIllusion, you ask some tough questions. I have had to re-examine just about everything I thought I knew about myself, my wife and our relationship, with ruthless abandon. Painful, insightful and quietly inspirational.
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Yeah, I'm probably known for that, but it's a technique that's served me very well in the past. Good on you for sticking to it. I think the mere prospect scares most people away from it. Yes, it can be painful, but the results are more than worth it.

Freetime said:
I have no idea what this means: but if you're worried about the classic wife 'opposite day' thing...
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LOL! That's the thing that wives do where they say one thing and mean the opposite. Ever see the commercial where a guy is going golfing on an anniversary? On the way out the door, he keeps asking the wife if it's okay with her, and she keeps saying, "Yeah, it's fine" (with that tone and look that anyone who has lived with a woman for any length of time should know better). I think the last scene is him outside on the way to the car, and there's the sound of dishes and stuff breaking from inside the house.

Opposite Day.
Freetime said:
I'm still working my way through your journey here. I'm sorta curious what I may be posting 8 months from now.
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It's like growing up. Don't be in too much of a rush. You're off to a good start, but it pays to be patient. Lord knows I learned that the hard way.

Cheers
 
Since he's unaware of his potential role in your lives, why not just treat him as you would any new friend?

Don't get too far ahead of yourself. ;)
 
I was reading that one of your fears is that she will fall in love with someone else and leave you. At the begining of our journey, I had the same fears about my husband. I came to the conclusion that I didn't want to try to hold on to someone if they didn't want to be with me. I want to know that he's with me because he wants to be, not because he "has to" be. It actually ended up bringing us closer.
 
Meeting topics, anyone?

ImaginaryIllusion, thanks for the clarification and encouragement. Sometimes I feel at peace with this life change, sometimes I don't.

I like that you and the others speak your truth and ask me questions that really make me look at myself in this situation. I am grateful also to see that there's... sorta like a plan to this change, and that you're willing to help people new to the lifestyle. I've been to other boards where the members are just a small closed group not really interested in helping out. So thanks for doing this.

I want to get to a place of true love where I both accept and encourage this change for my wife and me, yet continue to deal with unexpected jealousy and/or fear. Does this pass? Please say yes, as I just could not imagine staying where I am, long term.

Don't you have like a spell or something that I can chant/use to stay on the soft and fluffy side of life?

Trucker Pete, exactly. I get just how far out of touch with reality I was/can be in relation to where I actually am today.

Derbylicious, awesome insight, and one that gives me a great deal of peace of mind, oddly enough.

So how does one bring this up and in polite conversation? I'm heading out to a meet-up Wednesday, where the man of the hour will be present and I'm a tad lost as to how to get the conversation going.

I'm the kinda guy who would normally just say something like: "So... my wife wants to have an ongoing sexual relationship with you. You in?"

I'll probably leave the approach to her, though, unless this stays in mystery, because that uncertainty just makes me crazy. So, unless otherwise directed...

Stay frosty, folks,
Freetime
 
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Yes. It gets much easier. Sometimes it isn't something that is even thought about, eventually. He is probably just as nervous as you. If you think of it, he is in a position to be more nervous. You could just crack a joke and see how it goes over. :) Chances are it will be fine. I'm pretty sure that your partner picks people you like. She picked you, after all.
 
What the fuck?

I was downstairs discussing what my wife really wanted, FWBs vs true polyamory, and I burst into tears! Me! I've just spent the last 10 minutes weeping like a small child, and I don't even know why. I haven't done this in... years? I thought I was doing so well. Now I just feel broken and alone.

I came upstairs to my office and closed the door so that I wouldn't hurt my wife. I don't want my pain becoming her problem. Fuck me, I really am on my own here.

Just had to document this as it happens. I have a tendency to minimize.
 
You aren't alone, my friend. There are a TON of people out there who have experienced what you are going through. Maybe consider it a growing pain. You are an independent person, yes, but you are not alone. That independence, when moving from a monoamorous-type relationship to a polyamorous one, is glaringly obvious in the early days. But it is not necessarily a bad thing, just uncomfortable, and one needs to adjust to it. It feels uncomfortable because we are not used to it in monoamory. We are used to being more entwined and merged together. Polyamory offers a separateness that means more personal involvement with ourselves, while loving and relating to others. It's hard to explain, but most definitely feels like being alone when you aren't used to that feeling.

You and she are likely still good, just changing into something different. There are bound to be tears with that. Keep at it.

It's okay to let her know you are struggling. It's normal, and likely it will help her empathize and feel close to you. I admire you for sharing your tears here. To me, that is the stuff of great men, when they can admit to crying. Good on you.
 
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