Imagine your ideal relationships.

Wow. Thank you so much for posting your ideal relationship, Polynerdist. It's beautiful. It's giving me the courage to say exactly what's in my heart to those I want to partner with.

I'm so touched by how others were moved to express themselves by your post. How delightful!
 
Relationships, for me, are give and take.
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I agree. My ideal is that positive energy flows both ways, not just from one to the other. I don't want people giving because they feel forced or coerced to do so. I want it to be from the heart. "Give and give."

If someone's in an abusive or one-sided relationship, would you feel it's a virtue to "give [...] without expectation of reciprocation"?
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No, I don't think it would be a virtue. I don't think one sided relationships are healthy, and certainly not my ideal.

My ideal is that everyone gives without expectation, but *everyone* in the relationship does that. So that creates the balance, I guess.


Also, "sharing resources" could be interpreted vaguely as in the aforementioned "love and affection," or more specifically, as "time" or "money". [...]

I'm a huge fan of sharing with people I love, don't get me wrong, but I'm not sure I'd hold "sharing resources" as an ideal itself.
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I agree. It is a bit of a vague statement. I myself am not totally clear about what this looks like for me. There are many levels of sharing resources; from someone buying you coffee occasionally, to living together and pooling money. What is exactly ideal for me? I'm not sure. But I do believe that my ideal relationship(s) would include an element of each person making contributions to the other's lives in this way.


There are some people, for having various value sets, that I'd not want to share my resources with.
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Me too.

For a single person to take "100% responsibility" for the quality of the relationship would seem to both absolve, and burden (chicken... egg... egg... chicken...) the people in that relationship. I see how people could take 100% responsibility for themselves, but claiming that you (or Redpepper) are 100% responsible for your relationship working seem to dishonor both you and Redpepper as individuals, in my eyes, and conflict with your points later.
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As I see it, each person is 100% responsible at the same time. So I am 100% responsible and the other person is also 100% responsible. We are both totally responsible, and equally so. I don't mean that making things work is up to one person, just that it is an ideal of mine that each individual in the relationship takes the perspective of being responsible for what is happening to them, and in the relationship. Again, my ideal is that everyone in the relationship does this; if one person takes on responsibility while another disowns responsibility, then I don't think that's an ideal scenario.
 
LovingRadiance said:
Are you a math-minded person? I think someone who is very math oriented would see that on account of 100% is "the sum total." But for myself, I don't think that 100% is necessarily the sum total of anything. I see it that both people must take 100% responsibility for the relationship, and that includes taking 100% responsibility to not have a relationship with anyone who isn't 100% responsible for the relationship also. Then you have much less risk of failure as where one person has a weakness-the other has it covered UNTIL THE FIRST CAN STRENGTHEN THEIR WEAKNESS and both parties know that they will both be fully committed to seeking out their own weaknesses and improving them-not allowing themselves to take advantage of the other persons strength.
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For me, the "total responsibility" within a relationship is 100% X the number of people in that relationship.

Two people = 200% responsibility. Three, 300%.
 
My current relationships is what I'd call nearly ideal: two amazing wonderful girlfriends. The only thing that would make it better is for Pearl to be living with me and Faery. I really hope that can happen one day.
 
Ideology

Where one reads 'ideal' one can read ideological, and for the polyamory to run head first into the same flaw of the 'ideal' of monogamy and the ideology behind that concept leads to a potential dichotomy of battles between the two.

To hold to concepts of 'the perfect', 'the ideal' is thoroughly dangerous.

Any ideology has a habit of poisoning the good in things using reason to reach a point of absurdity without realising the differences between all of us, which is better left to common sense guiding matters.

There is NO ideal. There is NO perfection. Each day is a reminder that all relationships take and give a working love.
 
mez said:
Where one reads 'ideal' one can read ideological and for the polyamory to run head first into the same flaw of the 'ideal' of monogamy and the ideology behind that concept leads to a potential dichotomy of battles between the two.

To hold to concepts of 'the perfect', 'the ideal' is thoroughly dangerous.

Any ideology has a habit of poisoning the good in things using reason to reach a point of absurdity without realising the differences between all of us which is better left to common sense guiding matters.

There is NO ideal - there is NO perfection - each day is a reminder that all relationships take and give a working love.
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Wow, that is food for thought. Thank you for this. I love the last sentence!
 
My dream is to have two husbands, where we all live as a family unit. I would also like to have a girlfriend. She might be the partner of one of my husbands, too. But she might not live with us.

I also desire to have friends that I am very close to, without crossing the sexual line, but cuddle, perhaps shower, sleep, and so on together. I love real connections, and touch is a great expression of such. And it would be great to all live in the same house, like a family.

The above is where I want things to end up, but I know that relationships go through different stages, or phases. At this point in my life, I want to meet people, make friends, and date if the opportunity arises.

I respect people who-

Embrace honesty, in thoughts, emotions, words and actions.
Be true to oneself
Harm none
Seek balance in all things
Accept people for who they are, not who you think or want them to be
What is, is, and what is not, is not.
Do not self alter
Be mindful of whom you trust, and the trust placed in you
Do not ask a question if you are not prepared for the answer
Everyone has the right to make and take responsibility for their own choices
Emotions are never wrong to the person having them
Do not engage in sexual interactions that you would be ashamed of, or that would cause psychological or spiritual damage
Seek to find the light in all people, but do not be blind to their darkness
Respect is not only earned, it is also a gift, but if you lose respect for someone, you have lost everything
Love is the mother of all emotions; respect her and honor her, and know the power she wields, never use her in selfishness, or in vain

I am attracted to-

Intelligent- can communicate on a level that demonstrates, not only academic knowledge, but real life perspective, an interest in myth, religion, language, and politics, would be a bonus.
Strong- Has a good sense of self, is grounded mentally, a Dominant in personality
Spiritual- A set of core beliefs and values, open minded and a strong sense of balance and paths of enlightenment
Emotional- Can love and be loved freely, can cry, and just generally feel and express emotions on a deeper level
Sense of humor- Witty, sarcastic, being able to laugh freely
Sexual- Passion is a must, must be a snuggler and and understand the spiritual power of touch

All I truly want is to fully love and be loved, to have that ultimate trust and respect.

There is no better feeling than loving and being loved unconditionally, truly embracing another's soul for all its light and darkness.

In a nutshell, that is my ideal. I love souls, and tend to be very drawn to a person's energy before anything else.
 
Ideal

Thanks, Redpepper. I plucked that from the top of my head.

I have concerns about ideals, being that so many people try to live by them and hold them up against other's ideals, putting them into the mode of a conflict over things that are unattainable. Notice I say "try," because these ideals are very trying on all of us.

Moving away from ignorance and dogma, we can begin setting ourselves free from old beliefs, noticing that in our gentle way we are beginning to become enlightened. Everything starts with those dreams and fantasies that spark the imagination and set up cycles of new learning and new growth in the body and mind. Realising too that not all dreams and fantasies are attainable and recognizing them for that rather than some pseudo-solid 'ideal.'

Remember that an ideal springs first from a idea. The idea is then dogmatized normally by people who wish to follow that idea becoming a ideology and idealising the first proponent of the idea.

The ideal is pernicious. It is dangerous in stopping people from thinking further and creating new concepts.

Kelleigh, you say "never engage in sexual interaction that you would be ashamed of." Yet shame is a psychological concept that starts with an external influence projected onto a individual from the outside, from society, family, religion and peers. Guilt, on the other hand, is a internal psychological feeling that starts from the inside of the individual. It is the conflict of realising one's own actions and responsibility in regards to those actions.

Anyway, I like everyone's replies. I take much interest in all your ideas and perhaps fashioning them into working models for myself.
Isn't interaction a beautiful thing on every level?

Kelleigh, I noticed your Frank Zappa quote, so I'll add another one here: “Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.”

And, “The greatest discovery of my generation is that a human being can alter his life by altering his attitudes.” --William James (1842–1910)

“Habits of thinking need not be forever. One of the most significant findings in psychology in the last twenty years is that individuals can choose the way they think.” --Martin Seligman, Learned Optimism
 
It's possible, but...

I'm a guy in a relationship with a married woman. Counting her husband, Aaron, I'm one of her three male partners. All of her partners, including me, are poly. I live with her other boyfriend, Baron. He is an impressive guy. He isn't totally straight, but prefers women. My sexuality is the same. I prefer to date women, but I'm not straight either.

My ideal relationship would be to be in triad with my gf and Baron. I'd also enjoy dating another woman, but I'm not highly motivated to start another relationship with anyone outside of our circle right now.

Eight days ago, while we were working in the garden at night, I asked Baron, "Are you open to something evolving between you and me?" He said, "Not right now, but I'm open to the possibility of it happening in the future." He then went on to say that he still doesn't like the idea of living with a lover. He'd said that when I'd first moved in, before I showed any interest in him. Two or three months into living with him (it's been six months now), he twice mentioned that he was no longer against living with a lover. At that time, I was open to a relationship with him, but it wasn't the first thing on my mind.

Anyway, we have the perfect opportunity. She would enjoy threesomes once in a while, with foreplay between Baron and me, at the most. I would enjoy threesomes once a month, with or without touching Baron. He doesn't like threesomes as much as she and I do, but he is open to them. He is very passive about it.

I know that we could have a triad without threesomes, but I would love to have them. I'd also enjoy being involved with Baron one-on-one.

Now, I'm trying to figure out how to talk to him about it again. I've given him his space and haven't been pushy about it. I don't know what to do. He's in the same room as me right now! :(
 
Perfect relationship? Hmmm... There will never be such a thing, but one can dream, right? For me, it would be to live in a larger house with my wife and another couple, maybe two other couples, where we would all pitch in on the household duties and chores together. At the end of the day, we would all be able to cuddle together, if we so chose, or not. If we felt like sleeping alone, we could. If we felt like sleeping with our "legal" spouse, we could. If we felt like sleeping with someone else, we could. Ideally, we would all be married to each other. But, western Judeo-Christian laws will never allow that to happen. So I will have to settle for living in a larger house with my wife and some roommates.
 
My ideal relationship

To be honest, I've been struggling with myself over if I want to get involved in another poly relationship after my last one ended in an uber-disastrous way. But if I were, it would be what I had in my last relationship, in that it would be two mono-poly relationships, or rather two Vs.

I would date some guy, and he would date me, plus one other gal. I could be either the primary relationship, or the secondary relationship. We'd have long-term serious relationships. We'd all live under the same roof. Individual bedrooms, but same household. We'd each have our own space for us, as individuals, and for romance. That way there'd be no "territory" issues, which I have experienced before.

I would be best friends with his other girlfriend, like sisters, kinda. I would have platonic love with her, and romantic love with him. The other girlfriend would have one other boyfriend, and that other boyfriend would be monogamous to her. Her 2 boyfriends would be best friends with each other, kinda like brothers. We'd need a really big house if he wanted to move in too!

Due to space issues, ideally there's be no more than 8 people (4 kids, 4 adults) in one house. I think that is manageable. After all, I grew up with 4 other siblings plus my parents in one house. One big happy poly family.

That's it. That's my ideal relationship, basically, what I almost had in my last relationship, two mono-poly relationships, or rather two Vs. I suppose that means I want a W.
 
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mez said:
Where one reads 'ideal' one can read ideological and for the polyamory to run head first into the same flaw of the 'ideal' of monogamy and the ideology behind that concept leads to a potential dichotomy of battles between the two.

To hold to concepts of 'the perfect', 'the ideal' is thoroughly dangerous.

Any ideology has a habit of poisoning the good in things using reason to reach a point of absurdity without realising the differences between all of us which is better left to common sense guiding matters.

There is NO ideal - there is NO perfection - each day is a reminder that all relationships take and give a working love.
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Wow! Food for thought! LOVE IT! Thanks for this post, mez!

To me, an ideal is a want, not a need. So when I say ideal relationship, it is a dream, or rather a goal I WANT to work towards. I do not feel that having this dream or goal is wrong, as long as I do not let it become a NEED, which restricts me from true happiness, and experiencing the possibilities that are out there just because they do not fit my ideal relationship.

I understand that there is no such thing as perfection. I am not striving for perfection in my "ideal" relationship, merely working towards a goal or an "idea" of what I would like. But if that goal is never obtained, then I would still be happy, because above all, my #1 goal is happiness, and that happiness can be found with or without a relationship.

But when that happiness is in regard to a relationship, it can be found with or without my ideal relationship, because basically I keep my heart and mind open to all the possibilities love may bring me, thereby not restricting myself to only my ideal.
 
I pretty much live my ideal relationship right now. My wife and I have been together for 12 years, and OUR wife has been with us for the last 2. There is only one thing that I can think that would make this even better. That would be to have our first gf as a part of our family. Unfortunately she passed away 13mos into living with us. We were blessed to have her in our life for a brief time, and are very fortunate to have a partner that understands how important Lori was and is to us.

I sometimes sit and imagine what it would be like if she were still here with us and my heart nearly explodes at the joy of it. I miss her every day, but know that she's with me.
 
Beyond the realm of the ideal

Ok. This is totally unrealistic. It leaves the realm of the ideal and ventures into the fantastic. As of late, I am doing well to meet someone who isn't a rabid atheist. :p With that said, here goes.

My current relationship structure is very good, but I would like to have one woman to add to it. She doesn't have to be involved with anyone else in our structure and can have as many outside relationship as she sees fit, as long as we can maintain a good connection (which in my mind, would mean that we would speak at least a few times a week and have one date night most weeks).

She would be at least as smart as I am, if not a little smarter. She would be someone that I found attractive (this could mean conventionally "pretty," but isn't limited to that, by any means). She would be strong and deeply spiritual (or at least fascinated by it). She would have her own stories and be interested in my tales, as well. She would be sexual as well as sensual. She would be interested in entheogens. She would be a bit of a "mocker" of things, including my and her spiritual pursuits. She would have an accent. Even if she weren't involved with my SO and her partners, she would have at least some respect and affection for them (this is last, but actually the most important).

Ok, now that I am done with the flight of fancy, back to the real world. ;)
 
I agree that ideals don´t exist, but I understand that this thread is about irrational dreaming, which is great and necessary for the human being, isn´t it?

So, this is what I dream about:

My two boys fall in love which each other.

We all live together in a place with a lot of space for all of us.

We have more children. (Right now we have one.) It doesn´t matter who the dad is.

And we have some nice threesomes from time to time. :)

It´s worth dreaming!
 
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