Irreconcilable Fantasy vs. Reality

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This forum must see a million 'How do you deal with jealousy?' posts, so I won't bore you with another one, especially since the answer would probably be "You just kinda do" or "Jealousy isn't an issue if polyamory is really for you." But jealousy is something I'm dealing with here. What bothers me the most, I think, is that jealousy didn't feature in my fantasies about this lifestyle. I'm having trouble with something I actively fantasised about, and still do.

And that's why I don't want to just say "Polyamory isn't for me." I do want to be able to fulfill this fantasy; I'm just having unexpected difficult emotions.

So, what my wife and I practice isn't straight-up relationship anarchy. There are rules. We're both each other's primary; She plays around with other guys. I don't play around at all, except when I join in with her and her lover.

She has total freedom. She can do whatever she wants. Theoretically, she could go with a guy I don't know about. And honestly, that's a huge turn-on. Our dynamic isn't just something I've accepted; it's my kink.

So why am I getting jealous? Some might assume that the frisson of jealousy is a turn-on, like a humiliation kink. But that's not how it is for me. I fantasise about her with other guys, and jealousy doesn't factor into those fantasies. So this doesn't make any sense to me.

Like I said, sometimes I join in, and I unambiguously enjoy that. She says it's always her preference for me to be there, but sometimes the guy doesn't want me there. My best guess as to why I feel this way is because that feels like rejection. Her answer is that some guys are exclusively straight, and that's just how it is. She's absolutely right. Her answer makes so much sense that I can't reconcile it with these negative feelings I'm having.

It feels like rejection that some guys aren't at least heteroflexible? Why am I like this?

But that is the one tangible difference between fantasy and reality. In my fantasy, if she goes off alone, without me, it's because that's what she wants, not because it's what the guy wants. It would be ridiculous to say "Let's not consider the other guy's needs and wants." I don't want to feel this way.

I'm not asking for advice on jealousy. I suspect there's only one way around that, and that's through. You *do* just kinda deal with it. But having known people in poly and ENM before we took the plunge, it always looked so beautifully frictionless. Not that there was never drama, but drama burned bright and hot and short. Not this slow-burn existential angst.

So, did anyone else find a gulf between fantasy and reality that was impossible to reconcile because it didn't even really make sense?
 
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In my fantasy, if she goes off alone, without me, it's because that's what she wants, not because it's what the guy wants.
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And why is she not taking ownership of going off with a guy on her own? Why isn't she saying it's her decision, but instead blaming the guy? Is she aware that you'd rather be under the belief that it's her decision? Or is she passing the buck because she thinks you'd be miffed at her if she was the one wanting that?
 
Evie said:
And why is she not taking ownership of going off with a guy on her own? Why isn't she saying it's her decision, but instead blaming the guy? Is she aware that you'd rather be under the belief that it's her decision? Or is she passing the buck because she thinks you'd be miffed at her if she was the one wanting that?
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Sorry, I didn't mean to imply this. She's not passing the buck, or blaming the guy, or saying it's not her decision. But I think you've hit on what I feel like is happening. And that gap between what *is* happening and what I *feel is* happening is the problem.

It's not what I want to believe... It *is*her decision. Just because you're doing what your partner wants, doesn't mean it's not your decision. She still has to decide whether to go along with what they want. If she was just doing whatever they wanted, I think I'd be justified in saying "Hey, this isn't what I signed up for." But that's not the case.

She's being honest, and I prefer that. She could lie to me and tell me that it's all her, they're happy for me to be involved, but she's making that call. And I might be happier. But I really value that this lifestyle is about honesty.

So yeah, she's being honest and dealing with my emotions as I respond to her honest truth. And that's why I feel so bad that my feelings don't reflect reality.
 
I don't know if this helps you any.

This forum must see a million "How do you deal with jealousy?" posts, so I won't bore you with another one, especially since the answer would probably be "You just kinda do," or "Jealousy isn't an issue if polyamory is really for you."
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Polyamorous people can feel all their feelings -- including jealousy. I don't know why you think poly people don't feel that emotion.

I fantasise about her with other guys, and jealousy doesn't factor into those fantasies. So this doesn't make any sense to me.
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That's because when you are fantasizing, you are the "author" or "movie director." Things just play out in your imagination the way YOU decide it will go.

I seriously doubt that, in your fantasies, a lightbulb goes out and needs changing; or the toilet gets clogged; or the dog is fussing to be let out. But in real life, these "unscripted" things sometimes happen in a household.

So, in your real life, you will have "unscripted" things happen that lead to you having some feelings, including jealousy.

For me, something happens, a stimulus of some kind, and in response, I do an action behavior or thinking behavior. Then feelings ensue.

If the dog fusses to be let out, and I'm already busy with draining the pasta, and it's all hot in my face, I'm going to think "Argh! Why now?!" and then I will feel frustration.

If the dog fusses to be let out, and I was already heading out there to garden, I'm going to think, "Pooch and I can garden together," and let him out. I will feel pleasant feelings of pet companionship.

So, examine the stimulus, your actions or thinking behavior right after that, and what feelings ensue. If you like how you feel, keep doing the behavior. If you don't like how you feel, change a behavior, and see if NEW feelings ensue.

Like I said, sometimes I join In, and I unambiguously enjoy that. She says it's always her preference for me to be there, but sometimes the guy doesn't want me there. And my best guess as to why I feel this way is because that feels like rejection. Her answer is that some guys are exclusively straight, and that's just how it is. She's absolutely right. Her answer makes so much sense that I can't reconcile it with these negative feelings I'm having.
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Again, something happens; you respond with a thinking or action behavior to that stimulus; then feelings ensue. Put that in order and it becomes:

  • Stimulus: Wife tells you Guy does not want to do a threesome with you and her.
  • Thinking behavior: I think he's rejecting me personally.
  • Feeling that ensues: I feel crap. I also feel ENVY that wife gets to play with Guy and I don't.
What if it goes another way?
  • Stimulus: Wife tells you Guy does not want to do a threesome with you and her.
  • Thinking behavior: I think he's responsible for his own body and his own consent. Guy does not want to share group sex right now.
  • Feeling that ensues: I feel fine. I'm in charge of my own body. Wife is in charge of her own body. Guy is in charge of his own body. Fair for all.

What if it goes another way?
  • Stimulus: Wife tells you Guy doesn't want to do a threesome with you and wife.
Wife just doesn't tell you when Guy doesn't want to share a threesome. There is no new stimulus, and there are no thinking behaviors or feelings stemming from that.

It may sound fussy, but you could use "feel" for actual emotions, "think" for thoughts, "observe/experience" for things you observe and experience. If you use "feel" interchangeably with "think," and end up confused, it might be time to be more precise with your language to help you "un-confuse."

If you think of it as, "Guy rejected me" as opposed to, "Guy does not consent to share group sex," it's going to hit you different.

Why doesn't Wife just tell you when Guy IS up for group sex with you and her, and just doesn't bother telling you when Guy is not? Could Wife be oversharing? Are you asking for every little detail, and then getting overstimulated or overwhelmed?

She could just tell you she had a date/twosome, and leave it there.

It feels like rejection that some guys aren't at least heteroflexible? Why am I like this?
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Because people come as they are. It's okay if you are heteroflexible. It's okay if other people are not. Some people are blond, some are not. Some need glasses, some don't.

I mean, ALL the parties could be heteroflexible. But it's about CONSENT. They could still all vote "No thanks," and NOBODY share threesome sex.

When people come together and consent to share group sex in a threesome, it has to be a "three people yes" vote. If only one person wants it and two don't, it's not happening. If two people want it and one does not, it's not happening.

Or did you mean... why do you take things personally a lot of the time?

I don't play around at all, except when I join in with her and her lover.
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So... is it time to think about dating on your own if you want more encounters with guys?

But that is the one tangible difference between fantasy and reality. In my fantasy, if she goes off alone, without me, it's because that's what she wants, not because it's what the guy wants. It would be ridiculous to say "Let's not consider the other guy's needs and wants." I don't want to feel this way.
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In fantasy, you are the "movie director," and it just goes how you decide. In reality, if your wife goes off to share sex without you, then it's a two-person encounter over there. Both she and the guy have to vote "yes" in order for two-person sex to happen. If one person wants it and one does not, it's not happening. It's still about CONSENT.

Galagirl
 
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Hi, welcome to the board, and welcome to ethical non-monogamy.

I don't think your current situation is polyamory. "Amor" means love. I see your wife going off to fuck other men, and you hoping to join in. This sounds like polysexuality. (I don't see any love here.) I thought this distinction was important, because you're already struggling with jealousy/envy in a more casual "fantasy turned reality" sex scenario.

If this were polyamory (and it might become that), your wife and one (or more) of her play partners could fall in love. (Good sex and some friendship often lead to falling in love.) Usually those newly in love (or at least, infatuated) crave lots of one-on-one time. We call it "new relationship energy." It's a hormonal and pretty much drug-like, euphoric, slightly anxious, heady, overwhelming feeling. It's temporary, but can last up to two years (usually one year).

If Wife and her play partner turn bf and gf, you might feel even more left out, and disappointed in not making your threesome reality come true.

Basically, what you're looking at is the difference between polyamory and swinging/open marriage, which are both under the ENM umbrella, but are quite different, feelings-wise.

The problem with fantasizing for years about spicy non-monogamous sex is that fantasy and reality really don't line up. Your wife's imaginary lovers were, in your mind, robots or NPCs. Don't forget they are actually as human as you are, and the stars of their own movie or game! Just ramp up your respect for their humanity. That should help. :) It might be hard to make that leap, but it is possible.
 
TSA1984 said:
But that is the one tangible difference between fantasy and reality. In my fantasy, if she goes off alone, without me, it's because that's what she wants, not because it's what the guy wants. It would be ridiculous to say "Let's not consider the other guy's needs and wants." I don't want to feel this way.
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One thing I’ve found helpful is mentally tagging my fantasies by telling myself, “I’m in fantasy mode now, not reality mode.” Getting into the habit of doing this helped my brain create a clearer boundary around my fantasies.

Another idea is to write down a "reality anchor," such as: “She told me X, I made up Y — I don’t have to confuse the two.”

If this is part of your kink process when she goes out, you might write: “This fantasy is about my kink, not real life.”
 
I would consider - if rejection from the other guy is the trigger, and if your wife is onboard - restricting your enm/kinky play to people specifically open to that kind of kink and willing to let you join in or watch at least some of the time. It's making sure to pick compatible partners.
 
I have to second what Mags said in that 1) this isn’t really a poly issue, and 2) I don’t want to tell you what you’re feeling, but to me, it seems like you’re upset that your wife and these other guys aren’t bending to/honoring your kink, because nobody thinks they actually owe you that. WAS the opening of your marriage meant to facilitate your fetish???

I think if or when a situation in which your wife falls hard for a lover, and NRE gets involved, and preferences come into play, you might look back on this and realize what real jealousy feels like. And I’m not saying envy or FOMO feels good, or can’t feel as bad. I’m just saying a healthy dose of poly hell is less fun.
 
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