is he playing games with me?

If you reread this, you'll note differing goals, differing approaches to polyamory, and differing concerns towards sex.

IMO, holding onto the friendship is what is important here.

Neither of you should deny who you are and what you want. It's not healthy in the long run.
 
ACK.

Potential.

I fell into that trap. There needs to be much more than potential. In my case, he never lived up to it. The dynamic was much too familiar to the one between you and Legion now. We both wanted things to work, for a while, anyhow... and it was just hard, always, like we could never get on the same wavelength. It was incredibly frustrating.
 
Potential is a bad word, I know. I remember a friend of mine from long ago telling me to never date a man with potential. "If he ain't got it now, he ain't never gonna have it," she said.

I guess seeing the potential sets up expectations. You see what could be, what might be, and then come in phrases like "If only."

Expectations. That's another bad word.
 
Nyx said:
I'm sorry, but I am confused. She is asking if you can sleep together yet, and you respond, 'I know you're scared. Whenever you think you're ready"? Who was waiting for whom here?
Click to expand...

I meant, I knew she was scared of forming an emotional bond. (I was cutting to make it about 10% the size of the original message.) I was waiting for her to get the courage up to engage me, not just on a sexual level, but with emotional intimacy, as well.

As for the rest, I think Mono is right, pointing out those three very important differences. I want to share my life with Nyx, but then I am gone from the country for a portion of every year, traveling for work, admittedly a bit of a nomad. I thought perhaps we could remain connected and share some of our time/space.

My views about lovers came because I don't like to be limited. I don't want to limit others, but realistically I think the branching should stop somewhere, or loop back in to make a circle. I have had limited experience. Really, the largest extension I've been in was me, with two gfs, both of whom had one other lover.

The views on sex, I feel, have changed, especially when Nyx and I were together. I actually never slept with anyone else while we were together, and had planned on following a "fluid bonding" pattern if and when I engaged a new sexual partner. But we broke up before that event.

I felt more responsible, since I was responsible not just to myself, but to her, as well. A good correlation is my motorcycle driving. When I'm alone, I sometimes go really fast, but with a passenger I am much more circumspect.
 
Nyx said:
The problem with Legion is that he is a person (self-professed) who is inclined to 'risk it,' and that bothers me more than I think he understands.
Click to expand...

I'm not even close to done reading, but on this I have to disagree. The problem isn't with Legion here. It's with compatibility. It is OK that it bothers you more than him, but that isn't a problem with HIM. It's a problem in that you are on differing pages.

If he doesn't understand how much that bothers you, again, that isn't a problem with Legion, it's a problem with communication between the two of you.

I read your thread, his thread, some related threads. My response in his thread, I think, holds true for my opinion all the way across. I think you two are totally missing the point. It's not about "love me" or "love you," or even, "love someone here and someone there." If you want a relationship, you have to communicate. Not talk. Communicate.

Name-calling, yelling, walking out, these aren't helpful in communicating.

Slow down!

Take one person's single subject, for example, your take on safe sex.

You say one sentence, he repeats it back in his own words: "If I understand you correctly you are saying _____. Is that correct?" If so, you say yes. Just yes.

Then he can ask, "Is there anything else?" You get three sentences. That is it.

Then it's his turn, and you do the same thing. Once he gets his three, you switch again.

Keep going until you both understand each other's point of view. Then go home and digest it. Then come back and do it again, about dealing with it.

Example:

"I don't feel I can have a sexual relationship with you, because I don't feel safe with your terms."

"If I understand you correctly, you aren't feeling safe. And therefore, you want to stop having sexual relations with me. Is that correct?"

"Yes."

"Anything else?" (No sarcasm; be sincerely interested.)

"Yes. I love you very much, and I want to be friends, but I don't know how to change the dynamic of our relationship without hurting you/me."

"If I understand you correctly, you love me, and even though you don't feel safe enough to have sex with me, you want to remain friends, but aren't sure how. Is that correct?"

Etc., etc., etc.

Get the picture?

The posts you two wrote sound like Maca and me fighting before we started doing the communication training! Believe me, for as obnoxious as it might sound, it freaking works. After 11 years together, we suddenly found happiness (and I do mean suddenly) the day we started doing the steps I outlined above.

My counselor says all the time, "Connect before correct."

Connect-- make sure you understand. Then correct misunderstandings so you can make adjustments, and then decisions.
 
Thanks, LR. I am really quite excited to give this a shot!
 
Sorry, I'm a bit confused. You two are broken up, yet you are working on this like a couple not broken up-- why? Because of history?

Legion, I was led to believe by other posts that you were a free spirit that just wanted to have lots of girlfriends. I'm all for lots of girlfriends. I don't think it means that at the end of one's life there is a feeling of having been loved, and that makes me sad. But what the heck, I don't think everyone has that goal in mind, anyway. I also think that eventually many women will get hurt, as, it seems to me, that as we age we tend to want to settle more, and the women that you may date might have this in mind and be hurt by your free spirit. I was considering this when I read the hurt that Nyx was going through. She seems to be a woman that wants to settle into something long-term, close to home and good for a family-style relationship. So, what are you two working towards? That may be the first step in communicating.

Legion, forgive me if I am surprised that you actually have some depth, and actually are willing to work on this. Even if you aren't getting back together, it will be beneficial in the long run, anyway. Good luck, you two.
 
In my opinion

Nyx,

My take, my opinion, not necessarily right or yours: I'm not sure why you have delved into trying poly, other than wanting someone to love you. That is apparently a very basic human need, so I understand trying to accept something that goes against your nature and core feelings.

I imagined myself in your shoes with a partner like Legion. (No offence intended, Legion. This has nothing to do with judgement. I just wanted to see if I could relate to her circumstances.) I didn't last a minute! lol The ties I have between sexual intimacy and commitment are way too binding, and I’m fine with that. I know and like who I am. Take me or leave me.

In fact, I was somewhat in your situation when I met Redpepper. She had other male interests developing as she got to know me. At first I thought I could just take what I thought I needed from the relationship, and she could do whatever. As soon as my feelings deepened (which happened very quickly) I knew that I could not give her what she needed if our relationship were to be so open.

The difference for us is that we came to an understanding of how each of us could commit more deeply, and work towards a very specific future. Did we both compromise? Of course! No real relationship comes without compromise.

I think you simply are not poly, or poly-relationship-capable, at least, not in the approach Legion takes to poly. Again, no offence. People have different ideas of polyamory. (That’s why I actually am coming to despise the word. It means fuck-all. Open relationship is at least understandable. Sorry, tangent.)

I truly think you should focus on your friendship and the type of connection that works for you. Don’t lose the friendship you have in trying to salvage the love you want.

That’s my 2 cents.
 
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MonoVCPHG said:
I imagined myself in your shoes with a partner like Legion (no offence intended Legion, this has nothing to do with judgement, I just wanted to see if I could relate to her circumstances). I didn't last a minute LOL!
Click to expand...

That's what empathy is and you SUCK at it!

(in a good way though):p
 
redpepper said:
Sorry, I'm a bit confused. You two are broken up, yet are working on this like a couple not broken up. Why, because of history?

Legion, I was lead to believe by other posts that you are a free spirit that just wants to have lots of girlfriends. I'm all for lots of girlfriends. I don't think it means that at the end of ones life there is a feeling of having been loved and that makes me sad, but what the heck, I don't think everyone has that goal in mind anyway. I also think that eventually many women will get hurt as, it seems to me, that as we age we tend to want to settle more and the women that you may date might have this in mind and be hurt by your free spirit. I was considering this when I read the hurt that Nyx was going through. She seems to be a woman that wants to settle into something long term, close to home and good for a family style relationship. So, what are you two working towards? That may be the first step in communicating.

Legion forgive me if I am surprised that you actually have some depth! and actually are willing to work on this. Even if you aren't getting back together, it will be beneficial, in the long run, anyway.
Click to expand...

My stance on Nyx's and my "relationship, or lack thereof," is that I feel the same way about her (more or less), now that we are "apart," as I did not so long ago when we were "together." Or years ago, when we weren't even in communication, she still had this place in my heart, even if the exact way I perceived her and felt about her wasn't the same as it was yesterday, two weeks ago, four months ago, or a year ago.

We are in a relationship. Whether it is committed, sexual, romantic, fulfilling, healthy, physical and/or intimate, is and has been in a state of flux since we first met.

My life could end tomorrow and I'd feel that I had been loved, truly, deeply, to an extent which has satisfied me greatly. I have just started to find a new depth to my own and other people's love. But I don't discount the value of the love that I have received/given simply because it is impermanent.

Things that are true in a moment are forever true in that moment, whatever else happens along the space/time continuum.

I know that women have been hurt, and I have been hurt and filled with doubt. I am trying to be clear. And I see an ideal that I have yet to achieve. I keep dreaming and trying and stumbling along the way.
 
MonoVCPHG said:
Nyx, I think you simply are not poly, or poly-relationship-capable, at least not in the approach Legion takes to poly. People have different ideas of poly. That’s why I actually am coming to despise the word. It means fuck-all. Open relationship is at least understandable.

I truly think you should focus on your friendship and the type of connection that works for you. Don’t lose the friendship you have in trying to salvage the love you want.
Click to expand...

I agree that I am not poly-capable in the way Legion approaches it. Obviously, I am a lot more exclusive and strict in my preferences. But I have my own separate relationships on the side of all this that I am gaining more ground on, and I am coming to realize that because I feel capable of loving (at least this one) other man as well as Legion, I tend to disagree about my ability to possibly have poly relationships at some time in the future.

I may not be able to be with this other man because of his situation, but he and I feel love and tenderness for each other, and that's all that matters right now. We are very close emotionally, even though it is not possible to be so physically. I have not been physical with Legion for over a month. Though at first it really bothered me, I have come to know about myself that I don't need to have sex with someone to feel an intensity towards them, to feel love and closeness.
 
On a side note, you two obviously have a history, and it sounds like you don't want to be enemies So practice the communication technique. It works famously, whether you are intimate partners, friends, coworkers, or even just acquaintances. People often misconstrue what another means, and if the person speaking is important to you, OR the info they are sharing is important to you, it's imperative to ensure you comprehend it!

Practice it. I'm not saying it will create a dynamic that will make you two compatible as lovers. But it will undoubtedly improve your understanding of one another, which is a great benefit in any relationship.
 
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