Jealousy, Envy, Insecurity, etc.: Merged Threads, General Discussion
- Thread starter redpepper
- Start date
Easier to fall into than what? assholes?
There is a conversation about lube in another thread.
And it was redpepper who first said what I have in my signature.
Marco
New member
My bad, I should've clarified. I meant threesomes are probably easier to fall into as opposed to say, a quad.
Yeah, I see that. Enjoy your weekend.
LovingRadiance
Active member
AWESOME, GS! Sharing it with the guys. Thank you!
LR
LR
LovingRadiance
Active member
I haven't caught up reading,but wanted to answer the question from my perspective, RP. I rarely feel jealous or possessive, occasionally I will during that time of the month, for a few minutes to a couple hours. But not every month. It's rare. I can be quite territorial about my time/space, however. Ironically, I'm generally not territorial about Maca. Protective, but not territorial. If someone is attacking him, emotionally, physically, whatever, then I do become territorial and aggressively protective of him. I am more often territorial about GG. It's been that way for as long as I can remember. Years.
I don't need to be defensive of my "territory" with Maca. It's defined, since we're married and everyone is well aware of our relationship. However, with GG it's rarely known what our relationship to one another is, and so people tend to step where they sure as hell do not belong, most often with "Well, she's just a friend, so why does her opinion matter?" type bullshit.
I don't need to be defensive of my "territory" with Maca. It's defined, since we're married and everyone is well aware of our relationship. However, with GG it's rarely known what our relationship to one another is, and so people tend to step where they sure as hell do not belong, most often with "Well, she's just a friend, so why does her opinion matter?" type bullshit.
redpepper
Active member
Thanks so much for all these opinions and stories. I learn a lot from everyone here and this thread was no exception.
For me, jealousy comes when I am not getting my needs met. Either I am not aware of what they are and need to discover them, or I have not set something up in my life to make sure I have them met. Sometimes I really need to look at the root of those needs and get them to the raw basics, as I said in another thread on communication. Everyone has the same needs, to be loved, to love, to have time to oneself, to spend time with those we care about, etc. Usually its one of these basic needs that aren't being met that means I am jealous. It is important to me to not overshadow other people's needs with my own, as it is one of my needs to make sure I don't harm others as best I can.
This can be tricky, and has meant the end of relationships in the past, if I or they are unable to get our basic needs met. For instance, I had a friend that needed support at a time that I needed support also. She was unable to support me as she demanded from me a lot of attention and support, giving nothing in return to me. She got very angry with me because I became unavailable to her as I was seeking out my own support. I ended our friendship as I wasn't having my basic needs for giving support and receiving support met.
I know that sounds rather clinical, but it helps me to think of things this way so I can move negative situations and people out of my life, or move myself out. Life is too short to fuss around with negativity and situations that are unable to be resolved at the present time. For me, it's best to leave them and see what happens in time.
I thought that perhaps jealousy was more something that came up for couples who seek out poly relationships, as it seems to come up a lot on here that way. But now that I think about it, I think I agree that it is situational and depends on a great many numbers of factors and has varying levels of depth.
For me, jealousy comes when I am not getting my needs met. Either I am not aware of what they are and need to discover them, or I have not set something up in my life to make sure I have them met. Sometimes I really need to look at the root of those needs and get them to the raw basics, as I said in another thread on communication. Everyone has the same needs, to be loved, to love, to have time to oneself, to spend time with those we care about, etc. Usually its one of these basic needs that aren't being met that means I am jealous. It is important to me to not overshadow other people's needs with my own, as it is one of my needs to make sure I don't harm others as best I can.
This can be tricky, and has meant the end of relationships in the past, if I or they are unable to get our basic needs met. For instance, I had a friend that needed support at a time that I needed support also. She was unable to support me as she demanded from me a lot of attention and support, giving nothing in return to me. She got very angry with me because I became unavailable to her as I was seeking out my own support. I ended our friendship as I wasn't having my basic needs for giving support and receiving support met.
I know that sounds rather clinical, but it helps me to think of things this way so I can move negative situations and people out of my life, or move myself out. Life is too short to fuss around with negativity and situations that are unable to be resolved at the present time. For me, it's best to leave them and see what happens in time.
I thought that perhaps jealousy was more something that came up for couples who seek out poly relationships, as it seems to come up a lot on here that way. But now that I think about it, I think I agree that it is situational and depends on a great many numbers of factors and has varying levels of depth.
sisterinlove
New member
I also agree that envy, jealousy, territoriality etc., are different from situation to situation, and individual to individual. More important than the presence of these emotions though, is what we do with them.
For myself, when I feel the beginnings of such negative emotions beginning to rear their ugly little heads, I stop, take a step back and examine it and its root cause. Then, after I have analyzed and understood it, I talk about it with my husband. It is my sincere belief that if we talk about these things before they become an issue, it is handled and never becomes a problem.
It is not always easy, as it can be hard for any person to admit what they may see as a failing in themselves, and to face the reactions of those they love.
The reality is, we have all (or at least should all have) gotten into this lifestyle for the same reason, LOVE. Whether it is our love for someone other than our initial significant other (I myself do not use primary, secondary, etc., as that denotes an imbalance and pecking order), or because our significant other loves someone else as well, and we want the person we love to be happy, or whatever other reasons anyone can come up with. We must never lose sight of the fact that love is our guiding force.
My love for my husband makes his happiness the most important thing in the world to me. This means that I WILL NOT allow negative emotions to get in the way of what we are trying to build. This works for us because my happiness is just as important to him, and we deal with each other honestly, openly, and with complete acceptance of the other. As my husband labeled it, we have a full disclosure agreement in our relationship. And with that full disclosure comes full acceptance.
But that is us. Everyone is different.
For myself, when I feel the beginnings of such negative emotions beginning to rear their ugly little heads, I stop, take a step back and examine it and its root cause. Then, after I have analyzed and understood it, I talk about it with my husband. It is my sincere belief that if we talk about these things before they become an issue, it is handled and never becomes a problem.
It is not always easy, as it can be hard for any person to admit what they may see as a failing in themselves, and to face the reactions of those they love.
The reality is, we have all (or at least should all have) gotten into this lifestyle for the same reason, LOVE. Whether it is our love for someone other than our initial significant other (I myself do not use primary, secondary, etc., as that denotes an imbalance and pecking order), or because our significant other loves someone else as well, and we want the person we love to be happy, or whatever other reasons anyone can come up with. We must never lose sight of the fact that love is our guiding force.
My love for my husband makes his happiness the most important thing in the world to me. This means that I WILL NOT allow negative emotions to get in the way of what we are trying to build. This works for us because my happiness is just as important to him, and we deal with each other honestly, openly, and with complete acceptance of the other. As my husband labeled it, we have a full disclosure agreement in our relationship. And with that full disclosure comes full acceptance.
But that is us. Everyone is different.
redpepper
Active member
Thanks for saying this. I love when people think like I do.
idealist
Member
Sounds like A Course in Miracles rhetoric. Not sure I agree, but it sure sounds good and keeps things in a neat little package.
LovingRadiance
Active member
Sister,
Yes yes yes. It isn't about what you feel. It's about how you act. We all encounter negative feelings at points in our lives. That doesn't mean we have to be negative people with negative behavior! XO
Yes yes yes. It isn't about what you feel. It's about how you act. We all encounter negative feelings at points in our lives. That doesn't mean we have to be negative people with negative behavior! XO
Morningglory629
New member
Great post, GS! Loved the whole thing, especially the quote above and the bolded thoughts. Going to keep putting one foot in front of the other. More thinking before I act, but definitely in an action state of mind. Thanks for your insight!
rpcrazy
New member
I'm asking questions in an external perspective and context. If you know the difference, how does that help? Most people are jealous and envious at the same time, because jealousy and envy are superficial (or skin-deep) emotions. If my gf is out with another guy on a romantic date, I'm jealous because she's not with me, and envious because he's with her. They usually go hand-in-hand, feel equally as horrible, and given psychological observation, I'm pretty sure they come from the same place.
Insecurity comes from REAL inadequacy, not just feelings of it.
That inadequacy comes from both a lack of mental balance, or whatever pieces of the dichotomy of mental well-being are missing, and the fear (read: replacement) for whatever is lacking.
Whatever is lacking comes from childhood conditioning.
The fear comes from the Id.
So, again., what exactly does knowing the difference accomplish?
How exactly do you deal with them, once you identify the difference?
Is there a way to deal with them separately?
What do you do when the feelings of jealousy and envy return?
Insecurity comes from REAL inadequacy, not just feelings of it.
That inadequacy comes from both a lack of mental balance, or whatever pieces of the dichotomy of mental well-being are missing, and the fear (read: replacement) for whatever is lacking.
Whatever is lacking comes from childhood conditioning.
The fear comes from the Id.
So, again., what exactly does knowing the difference accomplish?
How exactly do you deal with them, once you identify the difference?
Is there a way to deal with them separately?
What do you do when the feelings of jealousy and envy return?
GroundedSpirit
New member
Hi RPC,
Let me see if I can add any clarity. But this will be a bit of a shortcut and I might suggest you search and read more of this thread and others regarding the difference, how to identify it, and the corresponding actions to go along.
In a nutshell, jealousy comes from a place of FEAR. How do you react to fear?
Envy (short version) comes from a place of greed. How do you react to greed?
Do you see the difference now? Not at all the same, and as you might see, the actions you would consider taking for one would be distinctly different for each. Inappropriate and unproductive to get reversed. Make sense?
How do you deal if and when they resurface? Isn't the whole idea of putting time and effort into understanding and mastering our life outlook intended to make us a "better" person? If we do some of that, can't we feel better about ourselves? More confident? Less fearful? Why would we want to go backwards?
Same tools. We know how to use them. We get better with experience.
Hope that helps some, but keep talking...
I'm in a relationship with a married woman. I am one of her three partners. I live with her other boyfriend, Baron, while she lives nearby with her husband, Aaron. I feel no jealousy at all when she is with Aaron, which is great, because she is with him more than she is with either of us. I'm totally desensitized to her being with him.
When she is with Baron I do feel negative emotions. They have a date night tomorrow night, and she will be sleeping over here, with Baron. I'm already feeling some anxiety. I knew that I felt insecure when they were together, and felt a little bit of envy, but I never wanted to admit that I felt jealous. I'm starting to admit that I feel jealous.
My reaction is that I feel insecure and inadequate. I don't feel angry about them being together. Some of you may have already read my thread about feeling inferior. Baron exceeds me in many measurable ways.
I'm also interested in a relationship with him, myself, but he isn't interested "right now." He says that he is open to the possibility of something evolving between us in the future.
Saturday night and Sunday morning will be very intense for me.
When she is with Baron I do feel negative emotions. They have a date night tomorrow night, and she will be sleeping over here, with Baron. I'm already feeling some anxiety. I knew that I felt insecure when they were together, and felt a little bit of envy, but I never wanted to admit that I felt jealous. I'm starting to admit that I feel jealous.
My reaction is that I feel insecure and inadequate. I don't feel angry about them being together. Some of you may have already read my thread about feeling inferior. Baron exceeds me in many measurable ways.
I'm also interested in a relationship with him, myself, but he isn't interested "right now." He says that he is open to the possibility of something evolving between us in the future.
Saturday night and Sunday morning will be very intense for me.
My two cents
In my experience, a person tends to experience jealousy largely due to some combination of temperament and personal history. I won't speculate in what ratio.
My personal experience of jealousy is that I only feel hurt when I am not permitted to express my feelings for someone (e.g., if one of us is in a mono relationship, or feelings are one-sided). If I'm allowed to be affectionate and loving in a relationship, as the situation dictates, then I go straight to compersion without a problem. I'm certainly protective, as LR mentioned too, and that comes out as territoriality sometimes. (My girlfriend has a boyfriend who's got some growing to do, and he raises my hackles pretty regularly.) But I've never experienced actual jealousy in an existing romantic relationship.
There's a few people in my constellation who express similar tendencies with regards to jealousy. They all call themselves poly without hesitation, treat it as a preferred lovestyle, etc. We have a bunch who feel jealousy under more stereotypical circumstances, and so find particular aspects of poly challenging. Many of them express the 'stumbled into this' sentiment: they met one of us and fell in love, and now look what they're doing! (A few of them are now with multiple people themselves.)
Then there's our mono friends, who respect us but insist it's all too much for them. I suppose they're even more jealousy-prone?
That's how it seems to be within my constellation, anyway.
In my experience, a person tends to experience jealousy largely due to some combination of temperament and personal history. I won't speculate in what ratio.
My personal experience of jealousy is that I only feel hurt when I am not permitted to express my feelings for someone (e.g., if one of us is in a mono relationship, or feelings are one-sided). If I'm allowed to be affectionate and loving in a relationship, as the situation dictates, then I go straight to compersion without a problem. I'm certainly protective, as LR mentioned too, and that comes out as territoriality sometimes. (My girlfriend has a boyfriend who's got some growing to do, and he raises my hackles pretty regularly.) But I've never experienced actual jealousy in an existing romantic relationship.
There's a few people in my constellation who express similar tendencies with regards to jealousy. They all call themselves poly without hesitation, treat it as a preferred lovestyle, etc. We have a bunch who feel jealousy under more stereotypical circumstances, and so find particular aspects of poly challenging. Many of them express the 'stumbled into this' sentiment: they met one of us and fell in love, and now look what they're doing! (A few of them are now with multiple people themselves.)
Then there's our mono friends, who respect us but insist it's all too much for them. I suppose they're even more jealousy-prone?
That's how it seems to be within my constellation, anyway.
MonoVCPHG
New member
I would hazard a guess they simply love differently then you do and have a different idea of commitment. Jealousy is not the main reason people prefer monogamy, in my experience. Their concept of commitment and singular intimate focus is.
Last edited:
Mono, you're right that being monogamous is primarily about commitment, at least for many people. I wasn't trying to offend. Sorry if I did. That line was mostly idle speculation, following the train of thought in my post, though it was constructed with a few past conversations in mind. (You know that conversation, where a mono friend asks you, the person in a poly situation, for love advice? Ugh.)
MonoVCPHG
New member
No offence at all, my friend.
Hermes
New member
Some thoughts on jealousy
Hello, everyone. My intro-thingy's in my sig, so I won't bore you here by repeating it.
Something that's been bothering me lately is jealousy. My girlfriend's married. I don't resent her husband at all. I quite like him, as it happens. I had a serious wobble one weekend I was staying over and she left me to go spend some intimate time with him. While intellectually I knew that she'd come back, and that I was in the same position he had been in all weekend, I still felt a little slighted, like when she was with me she was thinking about being with him. (She got a text asking for a cuddle.) That bothered me at the time, though that sort of thing had never bothered me before or since. It was just that one occasion where she left me for him.
On another occasion, the three of them were away at an event, and a guy (someone I don't know, and I don't think they knew him well) gave the two girls a back rub. I didn't have big crazy about that, like I had above, but I did feel a little twinge (and felt better a few days later when my gf said he'd probably be irritating). I don't know why it bothered me, but it did.
I've never been in a situation in this relationship where I've had to deal with an addition to our numbers. I'm the newest 'lovely,' secondary but not casual. Maybe that was part of it. I think another part is because my social life has slacked off a lot lately, so I've been putting more thought and energy into my relationship. Also, I have quite low self-esteem, so I don't see much chance of me ever adding to my own coterie.
So what about you guys? When you deal with jealousy, is it more with new people or with other staples in the relationship? Am I still in a time of adjustment, and it'll get a bit easier? What do you think?
Hello, everyone. My intro-thingy's in my sig, so I won't bore you here by repeating it.
Something that's been bothering me lately is jealousy. My girlfriend's married. I don't resent her husband at all. I quite like him, as it happens. I had a serious wobble one weekend I was staying over and she left me to go spend some intimate time with him. While intellectually I knew that she'd come back, and that I was in the same position he had been in all weekend, I still felt a little slighted, like when she was with me she was thinking about being with him. (She got a text asking for a cuddle.) That bothered me at the time, though that sort of thing had never bothered me before or since. It was just that one occasion where she left me for him.
On another occasion, the three of them were away at an event, and a guy (someone I don't know, and I don't think they knew him well) gave the two girls a back rub. I didn't have big crazy about that, like I had above, but I did feel a little twinge (and felt better a few days later when my gf said he'd probably be irritating). I don't know why it bothered me, but it did.
I've never been in a situation in this relationship where I've had to deal with an addition to our numbers. I'm the newest 'lovely,' secondary but not casual. Maybe that was part of it. I think another part is because my social life has slacked off a lot lately, so I've been putting more thought and energy into my relationship. Also, I have quite low self-esteem, so I don't see much chance of me ever adding to my own coterie.
So what about you guys? When you deal with jealousy, is it more with new people or with other staples in the relationship? Am I still in a time of adjustment, and it'll get a bit easier? What do you think?
GroundedSpirit
New member
Hi Hermes,
It's always useful to be aware (or recall) that true jealousy is a fear=triggered reaction, and in the majority of cases, this fear is of the unknown. We experience situations where we are not in a position of control and outcomes are unknown. Our brains are more than capable of filling in some pretty fantastic (but often highly unlikely) outcomes. Yeowch!
So understanding this, what are our options?
1. Become in the know. Reserve judgment (or action) until we do have some solid knowledge to go on. Far easier to deal with realities and facts then the wild stuff our brains can come up with.
2. Realize and accept that the we are not the center of the universe, and that things will unfold without our control or permission. It is what it is.
Focus on building personal strength and flexibility. As evolution has taught us, the flexible and resilient survive. Rigidity is often fatal.
Things are seldom as bad as we first think, and we generally have the ability within us to make the best of a less than perfect situation. Practice creative thinking and flexibility.
Remember, Post It Notes were were technically a failed batch of glue.
GS
It's always useful to be aware (or recall) that true jealousy is a fear=triggered reaction, and in the majority of cases, this fear is of the unknown. We experience situations where we are not in a position of control and outcomes are unknown. Our brains are more than capable of filling in some pretty fantastic (but often highly unlikely) outcomes. Yeowch!
So understanding this, what are our options?
1. Become in the know. Reserve judgment (or action) until we do have some solid knowledge to go on. Far easier to deal with realities and facts then the wild stuff our brains can come up with.
2. Realize and accept that the we are not the center of the universe, and that things will unfold without our control or permission. It is what it is.
Focus on building personal strength and flexibility. As evolution has taught us, the flexible and resilient survive. Rigidity is often fatal.
Things are seldom as bad as we first think, and we generally have the ability within us to make the best of a less than perfect situation. Practice creative thinking and flexibility.
Remember, Post It Notes were were technically a failed batch of glue.
GS