Mistakes.. made a trip to see Husbands GF.

[Astirarose]

As I mentioned before, She and I are also friends. She is married, the hope was that I would also connect with her husband.

We are finding we made a lot of first time mistakes. A lot.
First off we stayed in their home (financial reasons as we couldn't have made the trip otherwise).

We were there for 4 days. So for 4 days (and remember this is my first experience seeing my husband with another woman) I felt like it was a 4 day date for them. They see it differently, they see it as they didnt have enough freedom or time alone.

Her husband and I tried to allow for them to go into the other room to watch movies, and have discussions about things they like to talk about. To me (and her husband) we felt like we allowed quite a bit of alone time.

It was a 13 hour drive, so my husband and I had plenty of time to talk before hand about ground rules, which we shared (and thought were explained well) to her and him. Esentially No kissing, no grinding, no sexual contact basically or intimate kisses, when out of sight. There was the possibility of some fun sex encounters that if it happened we would all be involved in, so obviously at this time, sexual actions were allowed in front of us, if everyone was comfortable. Kissing was off limits all together.

Her husband agreed with these rules as well.

Now I wont get into every situation that came up.

I ended up witnessing for 4 days, my husband and her finding every chance they could to get away alone. Husband did spend some time with me, but for the most part, it was her and him while myself and her husband tried to entertain ourselves.

One day, and this is something I'm having issue with, and want clarification on if I am over reacting on...

We went to the river walk and a nature trail. Although for the most part my husband walked with me and held my hand, every so often I swore he was trying to fall back to walk with her, and sneak in some touches, probably hand holding, ect. I would look back or fall back, because I was not comfortable with this. I did not want displays of affection in front of me, because to me it felt disrespectful, and we also had 2 children with us.

Todaywhen we talked, he admitted that that was exactly what he was doing, falling back to hold her hand, and when I turned to look he would jerk it away.

I did not want to witness these displays, I had assumed this would be a natural assumption, that especially with our first, that when our partners were with us, that they would pay attention to us, and not display any affection in front of us.

I was made to feel like I was imagining it, and just being overly jealous.

This also happened when we made a 2 1/2 hour car ride to the beach, I could sense she was going to try to get my husband to sit in the middle seat with her while putting me in the front with her husband, so I didnt give that option and sat in the middle on the way there.

On the way back, she asked my husband privately to sit with her in the middle. He asked me, and although I should have said no, by this point they had made me feel like I was over jealous, I told him ok.

Our children were in the back seat, so they were in the middle. It was dark on the way home.

I was anxious from the very start, I could see my husbands hand down between the seats as if they were trying to hold hands. They leaned in close to talk.

I shot him a couple of looks, that I was very uncomfortable. We stopped not too far in to get food. I had this chance to tell him I was uncomfortable.

He still sat in the back. Now I have to think back of how I relayed it to him, I'm not sure.. I'm not sure if I only said I was feeling anxious? I'm not sure.

He knew, there was no way he didnt, that I was uncomfortable, because he would back off when he saw the looks. Besides the fact that there were children in the back seat.

Admittedly, I do understand the urgency, and why they wanted all this. I'm not even angry about it.. After 4 months of build up, they had 4 days in person.

Now my question, am I over reacting about these two actions, that they were disrespectful to me, to her husband?

I witnessed other displays as well, she had 2 couches, and kept putting herself and my husband on one, and me and her husband on the other.

If I went out to smoke, she sent her husband out, if I went outside, she sent her husband out.

I watched her laying her legs across my husband on the couch, and another night, she layed her head in his lap while she was stroking his legs.

I walked in on her straddling him on the couch (they say they were not kissing).
I and her husband had stepped out for a minute to smoke.

I caught the glances between them, in fact it felt like they were in a world of their own even when myself and her husband were there.

Her husband I and both ended up feeling as if we shouldn't have even been there, that we didnt exist for a good amount of the time we were there.

Am I over reacting, if I am please give me the tools to understand this.

My husband and I have been talking for the past two days we have been home. At times it isnt good, but other times I feel we end up with a very deep understanding of each other.

We have had sex several times since we got back (2 days ago).

Right now, we are at odds. I'm trying to understand, and I know he said this out of anger, but he told me my rules were stupid. I dont think he really feels that way, and it was said out of anger, but it still hurt.

I feel like I tried my best to allow them this time, It was a hard experience for me, and to say my rules were stupid just invalidates how I feel, and that I should have allowed more.

 

[dingedheart]

So these rules and the elaborate attempts at self delusion are helping you how ?? Do you think denial is the best strategy?

 

[JaneQSmythe]

So, my initial impression is, YES, you are over-reacting, but understandably.

Reading through your previous posts - it sound like you are trying to get comfortable with "flirting" (liberal-mono?) while husband-GF are in the midst of NRE and wanting to get-on-with-it.

Sure, it would be neat and easy if you and her husband hit it off...and really, really rare for it to be at the same level of intensity, if at all. That is the the poly-fantasy version.

My suggestion? Step away. There is no reason that you have to personally witness their puppy-love. This is not Junior High, you are adults. You don't need to see their hand-holding (PS. If you are uncomfortable with this, I think you really need to reconsider what you are defining as "poly"...")

*****************LINE BY LINE VERSION****************************

As I mentioned before, She and I are also friends. She is married, the hope was that I would also connect with her husband.

Good that you are friends in that you are not starting as competitors but maybe this sets up some assumptions, like a.) because she is your friend, she understands how you will react? b.) because she is married she will understand your perspective? c.) because she finds her husband relationship-worthy, then you will too?

We are finding we made a lot of first time mistakes. A lot.
First off we stayed in their home (financial reasons as we couldn't have made the trip otherwise).

We were there for 4 days. So for 4 days (and remember this is my first experience seeing my husband with another woman) I felt like it was a 4 day date for them. They see it differently, they see it as they didnt have enough freedom or time alone.

Yup. Too much, too close, too long. If possible, I would suggest at least one, if not two, hotel rooms in their town (or yours). One for you and him, one for him and her and home for them. First experience, two hours MAX (and actually, there is NO reason why you ever have to see them together - you can be HIS wife and HER friend and never the twain shall meet, if that works best.)

Her husband and I tried to allow for them to go into the other room to watch movies, and have discussions about things they like to talk about. To me (and her husband) we felt like we allowed quite a bit of alone time.

Nope. None of that was actually "alone" time - that was "time-in-the-next-room-over-trying-to-create-intimacy-while-our-significant-others-could-hear-any-sound-(even-giggles)-that-were-made". Imagine going to a drive-in on a date with your parents in the back-seat...

It was a 13 hour drive, so my husband and I had plenty of time to talk before hand about ground rules, which we shared (and thought were explained well) to her and him. Esentially No kissing, no grinding, no sexual contact basically or intimate kisses, when out of sight.

So, to me, it sounds like: YOU set some ground rules, that your husband agreed to (because he was disposed to agree to anything that let him see his girlfriend, so under duress) which you then informed his "GF" and partner of after you had driven 13 hours to see them? "No kissing/grinding/sexual contact when out of sight" = where is this different than monogamy, exactly?

There was the possibility of some fun sex encounters that if it happened we would all be involved in, so obviously at this time, sexual actions were allowed in front of us, if everyone was comfortable. Kissing was off limits all together.

So, if I am reading this right. Husband and GF treat each other as interesting but off-limits strangers UNLESS you and GF-husband miraculously hit it off and suddenly want everyone to get down and dirty swinger-style but no kissing?

Her husband agreed with these rules as well.

Naturally, since neither you nor he want anything to actually happen - these are great (if impractical) rules.

I ended up witnessing for 4 days, my husband and her finding every chance they could to get away alone. Husband did spend some time with me, but for the most part, it was her and him while myself and her husband tried to entertain ourselves.

Ummm, yeah? Since the whole point of this endeavor was to get people in proximity, it seems that they were interested in doing that, is surprising how? The fact that husband spent some time with you is actually surprising and laudable.

One day, and this is something I'm having issue with, and want clarification on if I am over reacting on...

We went to the river walk and a nature trail. Although for the most part my husband walked with me and held my hand, every so often I swore he was trying to fall back to walk with her, and sneak in some touches, probably hand holding, ect. I would look back or fall back, because I was not comfortable with this. I did not want displays of affection in front of me, because to me it felt disrespectful, and we also had 2 children with us.

Todaywhen we talked, he admitted that that was exactly what he was doing, falling back to hold her hand, and when I turned to look he would jerk it away.

I did not want to witness these displays, I had assumed this would be a natural assumption, that especially with our first, that when our partners were with us, that they would pay attention to us, and not display any affection in front of us.

Honestly, this seems to be a problem with your assumptions. If each person was only to be with their original partner then what was the purpose of going on the river walk and nature trail with OTHER PEOPLE? You did say that your husband "for the most part" walked with you and held your hand. It seems like he was trying to assuage your feelings, but surely if that was the whole point of the walk he could have done that at home without a 13 hour drive?

I was made to feel like I was imagining it, and just being overly jealous.

I would say that you weren't imagining it - since he admitted as much - AND you are being overly jealous. For holding hand with his GF? (What is your impression of what being a GF means, at whatever age you all are, being old enough to procreate?

This also happened when we made a 2 1/2 hour car ride to the beach, I could sense she was going to try to get my husband to sit in the middle seat with her while putting me in the front with her husband, so I didnt give that option and sat in the middle on the way there.

On the way back, she asked my husband privately to sit with her in the middle. He asked me, and although I should have said no, by this point they had made me feel like I was over jealous, I told him ok.

Our children were in the back seat, so they were in the middle. It was dark on the way home.

I was anxious from the very start, I could see my husbands hand down between the seats as if they were trying to hold hands. They leaned in close to talk.

I shot him a couple of looks, that I was very uncomfortable. We stopped not too far in to get food. I had this chance to tell him I was uncomfortable.

He still sat in the back. Now I have to think back of how I relayed it to him, I'm not sure.. I'm not sure if I only said I was feeling anxious? I'm not sure.

He knew, there was no way he didnt, that I was uncomfortable, because he would back off when he saw the looks. Besides the fact that there were children in the back seat.

Admittedly, I do understand the urgency, and why they wanted all this. I'm not even angry about it.. After 4 months of build up, they had 4 days in person.

Now my question, am I over reacting about these two actions, that they were disrespectful to me, to her husband?

To my way of thinking, "yes" you are over-reacting, and "no" they don't seem particularly disrespectful to me.

I witnessed other displays as well, she had 2 couches, and kept putting herself and my husband on one, and me and her husband on the other.

If I went out to smoke, she sent her husband out, if I went outside, she sent her husband out.

I watched her laying her legs across my husband on the couch, and another night, she layed her head in his lap while she was stroking his legs.

I walked in on her straddling him on the couch (they say they were not kissing).
I and her husband had stepped out for a minute to smoke.

I caught the glances between them, in fact it felt like they were in a world of their own even when myself and her husband were there.

Her husband I and both ended up feeling as if we shouldn't have even been there, that we didnt exist for a good amount of the time we were there.

Am I over reacting, if I am please give me the tools to understand this.

Again, yes, I do think that you are over-reacting, but I also think that it is because you didn't know what to expect. You have two people that are FINALLY allowed to interact in person for the first time and you are surprised that they are preoccupied with this? Unrealistic

 

[Astirarose]

I should add.. My husband and I decided to do Poly 4 months ago, my husband has had his gf 4 months, so I have been learning as we go in this.

Jane, we were on a trip in a different state, I had no choice but to witness this, once I was in it.

 

[vinsanity0]

I will be brutally honest. It sounds like you gave them four days in hell.

When this happened:

It was a 13 hour drive, so my husband and I had plenty of time to talk before hand about ground rules, which we shared (and thought were explained well) to her and him. Esentially No kissing, no grinding, no sexual contact basically or intimate kisses, when out of sight. There was the possibility of some fun sex encounters that if it happened we would all be involved in, so obviously at this time, sexual actions were allowed in front of us, if everyone was comfortable. Kissing was off limits all together.

You guys should have turned around and went home.

 

[anamikanon]

This is the craziest thing I've ever read. I don't think you are overreacting, you are being extremely controlling. You say you don't want to see displays of affection between them, yet over and over when they attempt to be affectionate out of your sight, so it doesn't bother you, you go out of your way to catch them being affectionate and you seem to think it is wrong or something to be guilty about. If you think them being affectionate is wrong, why are you in this situation at all?

If you are "trying to be comfortable", let me assure you, it doesn't sound like it. It sounds like you are trying to make them uncomfortable. It sounds like you want to seem "permissive" enough to not prevent them, and yet don't want to allow them. It isn't working. I don't think your husband "didn't mean it" when he said your rules were stupid. Your rules are stupid and disrespectful to them. They appear to be going out of their way to work around your taboos and all you seem interested in doing is keeping them apart.

You could have done that sitting at home too.

PS: If you can't trust your husband with something as simple as holding someone's hand out of your sight, I don't think the problem is poly. The problem is a controlling possessiveness - which can wreck perfectly loyal monogamy too. My blunt reaction apart, I think you should seek help for your relationship - whether mono or poly.

 

[anamikanon]

PPS: What does this even mean?

I did not want to witness these displays,

and

Esentially No kissing, no grinding, no sexual contact basically or intimate kisses, when out of sight.

...

There was the possibility of some fun sex encounters that if it happened we would all be involved in, so obviously at this time, sexual actions were allowed in front of us, if everyone was comfortable. Kissing was off limits all together.

Essentially, you are saying you didn't want them to be intimate - in front of you or out of sight. You should have said that upfront and spared everyone 4 days of stalking.

 

[anamikanon]

I should add.. My husband and I decided to do Poly 4 months ago, my husband has had his gf 4 months, so I have been learning as we go in this.

I don't think you are learning. I think you are trying to make polygamy look like extreme monogamy. And I don't even mean garden variety monogamy, the alcatraz variety where someone can't even hold the hand of someone he likes because he's unfortunate enough to be married.

This is just sad. Very, very sad. For you and for him and for his GF.

Hope you find it in you to recognize that if they went to such ridiculous extents to accommodate you, they clearly don't want their love at the cost of your happiness and trust them a bit.

 

[Dagferi]

Honestly I don't think polyamory is for you OP.

 

[Magdlyn]

I'm sorry it went so badly for you. But you seem to have had unrealistic expectations.

You went in with a swinger attitude, not polyamorous at all. Your husband and this woman have been chatting on the chat app of a video game for a year. They are extremely attracted to each other, perhaps in love.

You kinda like her husband and you kinda sorta thought you 4 might get it on 4some style.

Meanwhile you made up rules for the horny infatuated couple to not do ANYTHING affectionate or sexual together, either in front of you, or in private. No touching of any kind.

It was a really bad idea to make this trip under the shadow of iron clad rules, to keep them apart. Not to mention, you brought your kids. 2 more chaperones. And it didn't work. They couldn't keep their hands off each other.

I understand you feel this couple are your friends, but only online friends. You went on the trip thinking of it basically as 2 mono couples, and 2 kids, just gonna hang out like monos do. Somehow in the back of your mind though, you thought somehow out of this, a sexual 4some might perhaps happen. You were OK with this since it would give YOU some sexual pleasure. But no luck, there was no sexual chemistry between you and the husband. And even if there had been, I'm sure you had the rule he and you couldn't touch each other either. How would the 4some be broached with no intimate gestures allowed beforehand? Isn't some foreplay allowed?

I wonder if the kids didn't think it weird to see their dad holding hands with the other woman on your walks and car rides. And then dad pulling away when mom shot him the evil eye.

Next time, you'd be better off cutting the apron strings, giving up on the 13 hour drive, and having your h save up for a plane ticket and hotel room for himself, to be able to behave as an adult and have sex with his gf. You could plan to do something nice for yourself while he was away. If you thought being there witnessing his love and lust for his gf would prevent jealousy... well, it sure didn't! You might as well talk it over and respectfully consent to him acting like an adult and courting and having sex with his gf, off on his own.

Better yet, in my opinion, would be for both of you to get on OK Cupid, or doing other social things whereby you could meet and date local people, as individuals (you get a partner, he gets a partner, no expectations of group sex, and with no rules about "not falling in love"). That would be polyamory. However, if you just want swinger style sex, with no kissing, no falling in love, go to a swinger club or find a website where you can connect with local swingers. This would save money, and allow much more frequent access to partners for each of you. But right now it seems like your husband is polyamorous, while you are semi OK with polysexuality, but not polyamory. You two had best communicate and get on the same page, or these kinds of stressful unpleasant situations will just continue.

If I were you, and wanted to be truly open and honest with my husband, I'd show him this thread.

 

[starlight1]

I'm not sure I can add much more to this than what has already been stated.

It sounds like you both have different expectations and needs/wants. And that needs to be clarified between you both.

Perhaps you could sit him down and share this thread with him and go through it?

I am sure Gala linked a needs wants thread somewhere once...

But in lieu of that, I have a values worksheet my therapist gave me to start seeing how Polyamory worked in line with my values to give myself a guide on how to construct my relationships in the future.

http://www.therapistaid.com/therapy-worksheet/values-clarification

Maybe this could be a jumping point for you both to get the conversation rolling, on there is also healthy communication techniques, and fair arguments, and boundaries, etc etc.

 

[Amac]

What does your husband say? How have those post-trip conversations been?
What does he want from this relationship?
It sounds like poly isn't for you - but it may be for him. Or maybe it's just an infatuation with this one particular woman.
Keep communicating. Get down to the very core of both of your feelings about everything.

 

[Astirarose]

I do not want swinger style sex... I admit I made some mistakes. We all 4 Talked about rules before we went down there, although on the ride, After my husband and I talked I was able to let go of a lot of what we had talked about. Initially her husband and myself were more restrictive. My husband and GF, knew this going in and agreed, they wanted guidelines.

Even my husband isnt at the point that if I started dating, that he would be comfortable with me going out and having sex.

The goal in the end is that I WANT to be ok with all the intimacies, all the love and affection, dating on his own... ect.

We did end up having sex, all for of us, which was actually a hot night, and didnt impact things negatively at all. I didnt have a deep emotional connection with husband.

Not one of us regret the night of sex.

She and I are also involved affectionately as well, just not to the extent she and my husband are.

Ive had time to think... Some of these issues I realize I have, these are some of the things I want to work on personally for myself. So I came here for clarification, and hoping that some of what bothered me, perhaps I could get some insight into the why.

I certainly didnt expect to get berated. I came here hoping for people to help me grow from this.

All this does is make me want to shut it all down, and unfortunately there are other people involved, and the last thing I want to do is hurt my husband and his GF.

I am TRYING TO AVOID THIS... I feel resentment now...

So please... I want help to work through it, not tell me how awful I am that I (and her husband btw) had a very difficult time witnessing the level of affection we did.

 

[Astirarose]

What does your husband say? How have those post-trip conversations been?
What does he want from this relationship?
It sounds like poly isn't for you - but it may be for him. Or maybe it's just an infatuation with this one particular woman.
Keep communicating. Get down to the very core of both of your feelings about everything.

Our conversations have been very very good at times, dispersed with some tension, but the majority of the conversations have been good, and even made me feel much more connected and closer to him.

I think I have figured out my issue that is deep deep down.. I have to figure out how to work through it. My mother abandoned me when I was a child, and left me and my 4 brothers with my abusive father. She made her own life and has been minimally involved. Obviously I never felt a good connection with my father.

My brothers who were my world always did things with each other, and left me out frequently... My best friends Ive had in life were both men, and I lost both when they got involved with women.

The times I am calm, and happy with my husband, are the times I'm perfectly ok with his relationship he has now.. Its when we are at odds, or have something unresolved and he is interacting with her, that I have issues.

This was the case on the trip, we analyzed this last night. Myself and her husband even left the house for a while, and I had zero issues with it, but my husband had been very attentive with me right before.

I have felt very unimportant to people who I should have been in my entire life, always replaced. I think that is the base of my fear...

Because my husband is the First time I ever felt like I was most important. And when I see him doing things with her, when he and I are not at that really good spot, I think the fear creeps in that Importance wise I will be replaced.

So... how do I work though this. Part of why I wanted to do poly, was to work through these irrational thoughts. My end goal is not to have sex. I dont care if I ever find someone... My husband and I through this 4 months, although there have been ups and downs, have connected so much deeper than we ever have. Ive fallen more in love with him through this.

I just need help to figure out how to get through this.. I want him to be able to have a full relationship, No restrictions, without me having issues. I want this for him, and of course it would also be nice for me.

I realize I have a control issue with this, so How do I let this go without it terrifying me?

 

[GalaGirl]

I am sorry you struggle.

You have a lot going on there. I'm not sure I can address it all. The biggest thing that pops out to me is a theme of "We tried to do too many things in one trip."

In case it helps you any... some thoughts. I mean it all kindly in an effort to help you, ok? I'm not trying to berate you.

I did not want to witness these displays, I had assumed this would be a natural assumption, that especially with our first (visit), that when our partners were with us, that they would pay attention to us, and not display any affection in front of us.

If you learn one thing from this experience? Learn not to assume. If you go together somewhere, and have some needs/wants? Make actual requests. Do not assume people will mind reader you.

Be specific in your requests. "Limit affection to holding hands or similar mild displays in front of me. Don't be straddling him on the couch in front of me."

List what NOT to do and what TO DO.

Even in your agreements/rules with husband -- they list what is NOT ok to do. Where's other part? What is ok TO DO? It seemed missing to me. That may be why he found them too restrictive.

There were also some mixed messages.

• They weren't supposed to PDA in front of you... but they never got time ALONE alone. There was always family in the house or around nearby.
  
• Group sex was on the table -- but hand holding was off limits.

I would find that confusing.

We did end up having sex, all for of us,

While I'm glad that went well, I wouldn't do it again. Too many hats at this time.

In relation to you...

• Right now your husband is your husband. (I color this green, since he's BEEN husband)
• He's trying to also become your hinge. You are becoming one of his partners rather than the only partner.
  [*]Right now the GF is trying to become your metamour. You her metamour.
  [*]Right now her husband is trying to become your meta's OSO. You his meta's OSO.(I color those yellow-orange for "proceed with caution" because these are new relationships to deal with.

That is 6 new hats to learn to deal with. Which is PLENTY.

When you ALSO try to add

She and I are also involved affectionately as well, just not to the extent she and my husband are.

like she is also kinda your GF? Or group sex? That's piling on more hats like...

• The GF is your hinge. You are one of her other partners.
• Now your husband is partner of your GF. He is your meta and you are his meta.
• GF's husband is also your GF's SO. You are his metamour. He is your meta.
• GF's husband is also your husband's metamour. So he's also your meta's meta.
• And so on.

If you want to head in that direction later on, that's ok. But maybe slow it down and deal with the first batch of hats/changes first, THEN other changes so you aren't so overwhelmed. Where's the fire?

All this does is make me want to shut it all down, and unfortunately there are other people involved, and the last thing I want to do is hurt my husband and his GF.

You don't have to shut it down if that's not really what you want.

You could view it as series of "openings" and chalk this first one up to a lot of newbie mistakes and lessons learned. Take a time out to assess, and the next time, try something else.

Like you staying home with the kids rather than going along.

Or waiting to save up for hotel so you don't have to be trapped in her house and can arrange the 4 days as something like

• 1 day out as families
• 2 days where you go out with the kids during the day while he has 2 days alone with her for day trips of their own design from 9 AM - 5 PM, and still comes home to eat dinner/spend time with his family at night.
• Then the the last "goodbye day" doing something as families again.

Your rules were agreements for what he cannot do. Make complete agreements for what he CAN do and CANNOT do instead so they feel less restrictive/lopsided. Do not make agreements en route to the trip. That's too last minute.

Could use this list.

Both of you take one. Color green ones for "fine to do" and yellow ones for "ok, but proceed with caution" and orange for "no for now, yes over time" and red for "no way EVER." Then compare how you colored.

If you both call something green, great! You agree. If one colors it green and another orange... maybe you can compromise and call it yellow. But that way there's something to look at on paper, you can date it, and later one do it again. He gets enough room to demonstrate he is NOT a sloppy hinge, and you can relax over time.

He's never been your hinge before, so I get that you WANT to trust him and his hinge skills, but are leery because you have no experience having to trust his hinge skills. He cannot demonstrate that your trust in him is well founded if you don't give him enough room to demonstrate it.

He called the rules "stupid" -- which is off putting. I would have said maybe the previous rules were too "wading pool" tight. Not a comfortable fit for him to do anything much less demonstrate he's a good swimmer who can handle himself. Where you are worried about it being "the whole ocean." Well, come to compromise and define what the olympic size swimming pool is. Something in between those two extremes that you both can deal with.

By using a tool like that list, you can color where you EVENTUALLY want to be and be comfortable with. And do one for where you are TODAY. And then do them periodically so things loosen up over time.

• You get to feel it's not overwhelming.
• He sees it IS moving.

If you need him to validate that this is hard for you and give you encouraging words -- ASK FOR WHAT YOU NEED. Do not assume, do not hope or hint. Ask up front. This is a vital skill.

Accept you will be uncomfortable. It's NEW. But feeling "comfortable uncomfortable" with a regular ol' swimming pool is better than feeling like you are drowning with the whole oceans of the world. It's going to be hard, but PICK your hard at a reasonable pace.

On this trip you tried to do too many new things at once with no real rest away from the people or situations because you were staying in her home. Stretched self too thin. Call it lesson learned.

Could also read the companion sheets to that list. See if those also help.

Probably not the time right now, but maybe next week, talk about HOW he talks to you.

He called your rules "stupid" which hurt your feelings. But at the same time, if he felt they were inappropriate...why'd he AGREE in the first place? He could have said "No, thank you. Those suggestions are too tight for me. I prefer something like..." where he is working with you on problem solving.

If he initially agreed but then found in practice they were too tight? He could learn to give you that feedback without name calling. What for? How's that help you any? Or help him renegotiate the agreements? It doesn't bring you closer together in a frame of mind to work out a problem. It just pisses people off and creates a new problem (bad feelings between you). And then there's still the "original" problem of needing to adjust the rules. Why do double load when you don't have to?

So please... I want help to work through it, not tell me how awful I am that I (and her husband btw) had a very difficult time witnessing the level of affection we did.

I see that it was hard. I'm sorry it was hard. Try to learn from the experience.

Maybe next time make it so you don't have to witness it.

• Don't stay at their home. Wait to save money for hotel or stay home.
  
• If you do go, plan to have big blocks of time on the schedule where they can be off on their own day trip from 9 - 5 doing whatever. They can do their heavy PDA then away from your eyes.
  
• Request the PDAs in front of you be mild. Maybe still uncomfortable for you like holding hands, but not the spectacle of walking in on her straddling him on the couch. I could see where that is off putting. It's not like you have somewhere else to go if you are staying at her house.

Look out for yourself and your need to be free of observing too much PDAs if going along. Or don't go on the trip and do your own thing at home for 4 days.

You are not awful for feeling bad. You just feel bad. No need to call yourself names about it. Please stop piling up "double load." You have plenty of load here already without you or your husband adding name calling to it and making extra load.

To me? Feelings ensue after behavior. So if you behaviors over the course of the weekend leads to feeling ugh, review what behaviors you can change yourself. And ask other's to consider changing their behaviors in the moment they bother you.

Don't try to address them ALL -- it was a big load. But maybe the top 3 things that could be improved.

So the next "opening" can go a bit smoother. Hopefully it will.

Be ok being new.

Maybe these links also helps?

http://practicalpolyamory.com/images/A._Wagner_-_Avoid_the_Pitfalls_of_Polyamory.pdf

http://practicalpolyamory.com/downloadabledocuments.html
http://www.kathylabriola.com/articles
https://www.morethantwo.com

GL!
Galagirl

 

[Amac]

Ok, Galagirl hit it on the head! All about talking. And it may feel like you're having the same or similar conversations several times. That's ok. If you make progress, it's worth it.

 

[anamikanon]

I see the situation in a way different light now that you have elaborated than your first post. Your original post came across as needing validation that it was not unreasonable to interfere in their relationship to extreme extents. Now it seems more of an issue of specific situations within the visit when you had problems with the remainder of the visit being somewhat enjoyable for all - or at least as can be expected in an awkward extended first time.

You did get berated I guess. I apologise. On my part, I was completely aghast at what I read and you had not mentioned any larger picture beyond that.

I am still absorbing your new posts. I will share if something useful occurs to me.

 

[anamikanon]

For what it is worth, I think there are too many rules trying to protect too much insecurity. Problems anticipated cannot be resolved by freezing everything into a paranoid limbo. "Not allowed because I don't know if I can handle it" is a permanent state, because you will never be able to handle it till you actually learn to handle it - as opposed to preventing the world from triggering your fears.

I think beginning with recognizing that your husband and friend have a relationship between the two of them and that they should be free to grow it. This is the foundation after organizing a visit so that they could come together.

Yes, you have your struggles and difficulties, but you are also an adult. The time for them to be addressed does not have to be "right now, stop touching her and come to me". He is your husband. He cares about you. This is at best a 4 day thing. There will be plenty of time to talk without barging into their intimacy with disapproval/insecurity. Yes, it will suck. Undoubtedly.

Think of it like this. You and her husband are irritated at being pushed at each other. They would be irritated at being pushed away from each other. Both feeding the other. They want time together so want to keep you occupied to prevent interference. You don't want time together so keep an eye on them to come join you. You all should be free to engage or not as per your comfort zone and so should they.

Have you considered the possibility of using a different lens at the situation? For example:

"OMG they are holding hands. I can't take this. Why does he ignore me and seem so eager for her? I'm hurt...." to "Oops. Here they go again. NRE. I'm part of making this possible though you have no view of it yet. And I'm so grabbing you when we get home. I want all that attention too. Double. Triple. Just you get home." or "Husband dropping back on trail. lol. Lovebirds. Here kids, what birds can we spot? Let's go ahead."

Get some distance, get new perspective, change the subject going on in your head.

Your severe allergy to monogamy may actually help you cope. Remind yourself that this is what you wanted. This happening means that you aren't going to be in a vampire romance style rut. He is happy. Half the goal achieved. Now... what can be done about you? Is the other chap interesting? Anyone else around to flirt with?

If nothing works, get a pen and paper and furiously note everything about the two of them being together that is bothering you. Whatever. In that moment, think of yourself as a toddler who needs to be distracted so they can have some time to themselves.

I promise you, if you do this, and absorb and reflect on what you are feeling instead of reacting to it instantly in a panic, you'll be able to see more clearly what you lack in the moment that makes you unhappy that they are together. And the next time, you won't be blindsided by feelings and will have an idea how to see to it that you are cared for in the moment. It may not start succeeding immediately, but once you let go of that safety button that calls a halt on others to deal with your fears - before you even have a chance to experience your fears properly, other ways to address the fears will start becoming visible. While you can set rules and stay in your comfort zone cocoon of seeing nothing you don't want to see, you won't learn to be okay with it ever, because you will not need to.

To be able to deal with jealousy, you will have to learn to change your own responses, not those of others.

 

[vinsanity0]

I'm sorry you ended up feeling berated, but you wanted comments. It's been my experience that a ton of rules will not work. When your husband called them stupid he was speaking out of frustration. Sometimes when we have anxieties we tend to end up pushing people away. I just want you to be aware of that.

I like GalaGirl's idea of each one going over a list, then seeing what page you are on afterwards. Often, when sitting down to discuss boundaries, there ends up being a lot of tit for tat going on. This way you can really think about things without the pressure of a negotiation.

Have you considered seeking a therapist for your abandonment issues? That can really take a toll on a relationship. I had a very hard time dealing with a partner like that. I ended up feeling like nothing I did was enough. I also ended up feeling like I wasn't being heard because all my attention was on trying to make her feel wanted and all her attention was on making me make her feel she was wanted. In other words, she was never there for me.

Hopefully you'll see the comments here more as constructive criticism than personal attacks. Transitioning from mono to poly requires laying one's self wide open and bare.

 

[Astirarose]

The last few posts have helped a lot. Thank you for taking the time to post these. I know some of the things I need to work on. FOr now, I need a bit of distance, and distraction, some artistic outlet to take my mind off of it. Its been like a solid week of this.. I need a break Thank you all for you help.