Mono Couple becomes Poly Couple

[GalaGirl]

Since you welcome comments?

I know what I need. It's what I always needed. I just needed her to put me first sometimes.

Yes. That would have been nice if she could have been able to do that.

And she'll never come to this on her own. She'll never see it as a problem as long as she's getting what she wants. The minute I finally speak up and tell her that's what I need from her, I think it's over between us. Not because she'll end it but, because how could I stay knowing that given the choice to do whatever she wants, she will choose to do the easy thing that hurts me.

Yes. This is your current lived experience. She does whatever she wants, does not meet your needs, isn't esp nice and doesn't really care if she hurts you.

I think you could go to the bank and make your own personal acct since it is long overdue. Preferably a whole different bank than the joint acct bank. And then leave the joint one for joint bills for house and kids. You transfer a reasonable amount to it from your personal. She transfers to it from her personal. You both attend to the children and the kid home from that account.

Then she can't spent so much out of it on her personal shopping. Sounds like she has her own acct for that.

Like I told Kirk, all I want is to be put first sometimes.

Then you could start putting you first sometimes. Make your own bank acct.

I get you liked him as a meta, but it's not appropriate to bring him this stuff. Talk to your therapists, your own friends, family, etc. If you need to spend some time making new friends? Do that. You sound really lonely and isolated.

It hurts my feelings so fucking much. And I feel like it's wrong that I'm so upset about it. Like I have no right to be mad because I didn't speak up loud enough. Like, why couldn't I be worth sticking around for? Why is she still so into this guy who causes me so much pain?

Is that bold part your authentic voice or Spitfire's voice playing in your head?

You can feel upset. You can be angry. You have every right to be mad and upset because this is a crummy situation. Abuse is not what you wanted in a marriage.

It's easy to put your upset on Bashir. People always want to put it on the "other person." He might have things too, but really?

It's a hinge problem. It's her. And you are not used to holding her accountable. You are used to letting it slide or making excuse for her poor behaviors cuz she scares you.

Scared to stay.

Also scary to leave.... but you are DOING it! Go you!

But it's like being eaten from the inside. I want to cry so bad but I can't anymore. Somehow I'm still trapped, just laying there too afraid to move forward."

Of course. Leaving is HARD.

But good for you on doing this much so far! Staying with Jason and taking it day by day. Or hour by hour as need be. Leaving abuse is NOT easy. Every inch you reclaim back for yourself is hard work.

She took that as an opening to shit on my therapist for telling me to leave her.

She's just not liking the therapist calling her abuse abuse.

She did make a valid point about it being a little irresponsible of them to "trigger you and release you into the world".

If you think you need more care? You can talk to therapist about what is needed and might be appropriate. Maybe you want a short run of anxiety meds.

But if you are ok enough staying with Jason and going to work and coparenting? Just rough? That's to be expected. This IS rough.

Be kind to yourself. This whole thing is still being measured in DAYS. Not even a week yet since the therapist held up her hand and said "Stop. This is abuse."

When you can measure the time from that appt in months, after doing more of your health plan, separating plan, etc? Some of it will feel less ugh even if there is still more to go as you uncouple and detangle from Spitfire.

Baby steps.

Going into the world? That's kinda what you do. You go to a therapy appt, live life, go to the next appt.

 

[BrokenArrow]

Thanks GG. I keep finding myself slipping back to maybe it's not abuse. Maybe I'm just over-exaggerating things in my head. Then my brain keeps reminding me of all the hurt but I don't know what to believe.

You're right. I'm extremely isolated. I can't talk about it with anyone from work. I walk the line with professionalism every day. I swear a lot and enjoy making stupid jokes and I find that graphic analogies during training leave lasting impressions on my trainees. "My network is like a clean set of genitals. Our firewall is like the condom that covers the network as it wades through the orgy that is the internet. Your USB that you brought from home... it's like that used needle you found on the ground in crack alley and just jammed it through the condom. Why the fuck would you do that?!" Needless to say, I was never allowed to give cybersecurity training again.

As for friends outside of work, well I've been scared to go out and meet people for so long. It's one of the things that made dating so difficult. That and COVID. Everyone I used to know lives on the other side of the country. My best friend from back home just lost his step father to COVID. I don't even have the heart to tell him about Spitfire and I. Really, I've only told one of my brothers and my Dad about this. They are supportive, but also on the East coast.

Honestly, because of the anonymity, this feels like the only place I can say what's going on and get feedback. I know I need to go out and make new friends but right now that's really hard and seems like a pricey endeavor. Drinks, events, public places... all seem a little out of reach and expensive.

Your right. I do need my own bank account that she doesn't have access to. However, that bank works with my job. The account is specific to my type of work. If anything, I need to reclaim that account and setup something else for joint finances, which is an incredible amount of work but needs to be done. She has not been fair with the money.

It's really hard to separate which thoughts are me and which thoughts are the product of our relationship. I don't want to put too much faith in my anger because I've seen how that can go too far. I'm constantly afraid I'm too angry at the situation so I default to ... I don't know what. It's probably helplessness. But I do carry a lot of righteous anger that I don't want to let push me over the line and into the wrong.

I definitely need more time. It feels like a race to get better and I'm falling behind. Like if I don't hurry and get some sort of resolution I'm going to be stuck like this forever. It's hard to live moment to moment with no clear way ahead.

 

[GalaGirl]

I keep finding myself slipping back to maybe it's not abuse. Maybe I'm just over-exaggerating things in my head. Then my brain keeps reminding me of all the hurt but I don't know what to believe.

This is NORMAL as your brain continues to heal. Again... only 6 days ago since that appointment. You are coming out of the fog still.

I definitely need more time. It feels like a race to get better and I'm falling behind. Like if I don't hurry and get some sort of resolution I'm going to be stuck like this forever. It's hard to live moment to moment with no clear way ahead.

I get wanting it to be over and feeling like hurrying through the process because it's really uncomfortable and weird here. Like just wanting it to be done and over already. But it doesn't work that way. It takes however long it takes.

As for friends outside of work, well I've been scared to go out and meet people for so long. It's one of the things that made dating so difficult. That and COVID. Everyone I used to know lives on the other side of the country. My best friend from back home just lost his step father to COVID. I don't even have the heart to tell him about Spitfire and I. Really, I've only told one of my brothers and my Dad about this. They are supportive, but also on the East coast.

It's ok to talk anonymously here because that feels doable and safe.

When ready? Maybe could consider asking therapist or looking around for a divorce support group or class. Those appear in a lot of places. And/or healthy relationship class. Those are sometimes run in libraries, community centers, and online now and put on by domestic violence shelters and similar.

Maybe make some friends there (even temporary friends) who will get some of what you are going through.

And maybe tell your best friend from back home a little bit. You don't have to whoosh. I'm guessing you already said you were sorry about his Dad passing.

Maybe you could think about saying "Best friend, I don't want to add to your burdens. I do not expect you to help me or do anything. I just wanted to make you aware Spitfire and I are separating. I'm working with a therapist.

If you are willing later down when both of us aren't so fresh from our things, I'd really value doing some low key socializing and NOT talking about our problems. Like taking a brain break from it all. Maybe online puzzles over Zoom or something. Let me know if you might be up for that or not."

Your right. I do need my own bank account that she doesn't have access to. However, that bank works with my job. The account is specific to my type of work. If anything, I need to reclaim that account and setup something else for joint finances, which is an incredible amount of work but needs to be done. She has not been fair with the money.

Ok.

Maybe you sort it when you are ready to. Like

"Hi work bank. I am going through a separation/divorce. I'd like to open a new acct and have my paychecks deposited to the new one. I'd like to leave this other one as joint acct so my coparent and I can use it for coparenting the children and their needs. What do you advise is best from your checking acount types? How do I change where my paycheck is routed to?"

Maybe you also look up separation agreements and someone to help with that so you have some phone numbers handy.

Then maybe

"Hi, Spitfire. I am making you aware that I have made my own banking. The joint one remains joint for taking care of you, the kids and house bills. When can we talk about reorganizing the budget in light of our separation? Talk to a lawyer about fair separation agreements? You can help look of course. I got a few phone numbers."

You can talk to therapist about healthy anger and how to express it. And what is too much. Keep on with your journaling. Maybe start anger section.

You can't just leap from major UGH to happy or even neutral.

Maybe the Hicks emotional guidance scale visual aid helps you. You are climbing the ladder.

"Doubt" and "Anger" are both higher up than "powerless." Anger is not a place in which to live forever, but it's climbing up towards better.

It's also not a straight path up -- you are gonna have some up and down jiggle.

You could print it and note in your journal. "Today my range was 13 Doubt to 17 Anger."

https://i.redd.it/dhjqo42o3f2z.jpg

It's early days yet. But over time? Maybe seeing your "range" at the top of the journal entries helps you see the trend IS moving towards getting better over time. And that you ARE making some progress in the right direction up out of the hole?

You cannot jump from 17 Anger to 1 Joy in a single bound. But maybe 14 Worry is within reach today. A few floors up. Worry about sorting your banking stuff maybe. That's a fixable worry.

Again... no pressure. Just throwing some "maybes" out there.

 

[LoveBunny]

BrokenArrow, you're doing the right thing.

Not quite two months ago I got spat out from my own version of poly hell. I couldn't keep up with the moving goalposts, or stand feeling like my partner's protection, love and resources were being withdrawn from me and given to another. Like you, I fought against him fucking his secondary in the home we shared (I hadn't even met her yet.) My self-esteem was on the floor.
I'd gone on an anti-anxiety meds. I had lost a lot of weight, unable to eat. I had to leave because it was his home, my pets (Unlike you, no kids, I know that makes it harder)

That was not quite 2 months ago, which isn't that long, and I started to feel a little tiny bit better after one month. Already, my appetite has mostly come back, and my libido. I no longer cry every single day. I experience moments of hope and joy. I'm not saying you won't still feel heartbroken at times and miss the good time with Spitfire, but I'm assuring you, YOU WILL FEEL BETTER!

Some things I've done that helped: thought- stopping every time I start to ruminate, dialogues with my inner child, being grateful: you're so lucky to have Jason right now and a safe place to go. Talk it out to anyone who will listen (forums count.) Exercise, exercise, exercise. Tons of self care and NO CONTACT with the ex beyond whatever is absolutely necessary.

This is your chance to grow. You are not a jealous or selfish man. You don't have to take scraps of love, you deserve a whole meal. Hang in there, as I've told you before, it gets better, it really does. And know you will never, ever tolerate abuse or neglect again.

 

[TinCup]

BrokenArrow, just wanted to let you know that at least one lurker hears you. You are seen.

Fix the bank account today. Consider locking joint credit accounts so they can no longer be used for new purchases.

 

[BrokenArrow]

I went to marriage counseling today. Still felt like the asshole but Spitfire and I both got triggered. She roared up and I piped down. Dude was like, "Yeah. It's a good thing you are separated for now." The takeaway is that for Spitfire and I to ever stand a snowball's chance in hell, I need to be able to advocate for myself. We had a real good talk after. She says she's doing much better now that I'm gone. Not anxiously awaiting whatever my next new emotion is and feeling super drained from dreading it. Feels kind of rude but I get it. I definitely feel better not having to worry about her losing her shit on me, or being so disappointed in me.

I learned we want different things from poly. She wants a more communal poly structure whereas I want a more hierarchical one. In her mind that's a Spitfire-centric thing. I don't want to live with a bunch of other dudes ever again. I've been working my whole life to be free from servitude to people not of my own choosing. Plus, I think it's bullshit that the guy who does nothing but take her on dates and fuck her is the equivalent to my supporting her financially, emotionally and every which way for a decade. Like what the fuck? Are there people out there cool with putting in all the work and getting none of the reward? I suppose there's a pot for every kettle. I want attention, kindness, passion and intimacy! I feel like I'm worth it. I feel like a real creep when I think the words "deserve it" but I know for sure I'm "worth it."

So yeah, we want different things. We're going to cut back on communication. She's going to make sure there's room in the budget for me to fuck around and find out who I am. I'm going to learn how to process my emotions better, advocate for myself and find my autonomy. I had a real important question that Spitfire told me meant I did not understand autonomy. When does someone else's autonomy coming at the expense of your autonomy give you the right to tell that person to fuck off? Life goals.

It's hard when you know you have to take it slow but you feel like you need to work fast. I want shit to get better. I want to believe everything can get better. I want to be able to come to Spitfire a complete person and really see whether or not this marriage is what's best for me. For now, I have a little peace, the amazing Jason and my first sense of freedom in years.

Jason and I are going to a nerd bar tonight! I'm really excited. I'm going to cook cajun lime chicken (nothing fancy just cajun seasoning and lime on chicken breast) because I wanna see how that will taste. I got ingredients for it and I'm stoked to cook dinner with him. Then it's off to checkout this bar. Nothing crazy as we both have to work tomorrow.

My life is ups and downs right now but, I'm going to enjoy this up moment while I've got it. I've got my therapy tomorrow and I'm excited to go in and work on stuff. Then I get to go see the kids for a bit. Pretty excited as I miss the little ruffians.

LoveBunny: Sorry you went through that. I'm kind of failing at the no contact bit already but I don't want to risk throwing everything away before I have a chance to process all of my emotions in a healthy way. If I go back it will be as someone who understands their own worth and will not be abused again.

GG: I think I went from 17 to 6 today. It's funny because I feel like I almost hit every wrung in between in the order shown. lol brain science. Writing this blog is a major benefit for me. It's a way for me to process and deal with my thoughts and feelings before I actually deal with my thoughts and feelings with an added sense of 3rd party oversight. I feel like if something I say here is way out of line someone like yourself would call me on it and I can reflect on whether or not I feel that's justified. Imagine if there were an army of cyber-therapists just lurking in every hate filled forum on the net like "where do you think that anger comes from?" A better world.

TinCup: We talked about finances for a bit today. I feel a little more secure. If anything I imagine I'm going to have to be reactive rather than proactive on this one. But hey, at least there's almost nothing left to steal!

 

[GalaGirl]

GG: I think I went from 17 to 6 today.

That's a lot of feelings. But hey, some like 6 Hope were above 7 Contentment -- which is middle neutral to me. Not super happy, not super down. Just medium chill content.

Here's another maybe. Could take the average also at the top of your journal. "This was my range. Today range an overall X."

• 6 Hopeful gets +1
• 7 Contentment gets 0 because neutral
• 8 Boredom to 17 Anger is -10

So overall it was a -9 kind of day but you got through it.

Over time? You will hopefully see the "bad day size" shrinking as more positives happen while you work to reclaim things.

And you will take notice of the positive things and not loose sight of them in the fog.

These are worth lifting up.

Individual counselor:

• "You're being abused. You're being emotionally abused. You need to leave or it's just going to keep happening."
• "Look at what's happening to your body. These are symptoms of abuse."
• "Of course you can't keep a healthy boundary. You've been getting cut down every time you tried for years."

Marriage counselor session

• Dude was like, "Yeah. It's a good thing you are separated for now."
• "The takeaway is that for Spitfire and I to ever stand a snowball's chance in hell, I need to be able to advocate for myself."

You need to become able to advocate on your side and set your personal boundaries if you want this to get better.

AND on her side Spitfire needs learn to respect your boundaries when you set them. Not just mow you down if she also wants this to get better.

You doing your part is like talking to a wall if she does nothing to change on her side. You have every right to move on from trial separation to divorce if she's not gonna change any.

I had a real important question that Spitfire told me meant I did not understand autonomy. When does someone else's autonomy coming at the expense of your autonomy give you the right to tell that person to fuck off? Life goals.

Personal autonomy means that every person gets to make their own choices for themselves.

Personal boundaries means you get to decide what you will and will not put up with. Nobody else has to like it. YOU have to like where you draw the line for your limit of tolerance.

Personal boundaries contain the action YOU will do if the situation happens or the line is crossed. Not the other person. YOU.

It looks like...

• "I do not get in a car with a drunk driver. If that happens, I say no, I call someone for a lift, I get a taxi, I walk home, I offer to be the driver myself if I'm sober, etc."

When does someone else's autonomy coming at the expense of your autonomy give you the right to tell that person to fuck off? Life goals.

Any time. Because you get to speak up if someone dings you.

You could have an all purpose personal boundary around that. Like

"If someone wants to do whatever they want and it dings me? I can say "Stop. Please adjust you behavior so you aren't dinging me", I can step back out of the way, I can leave the room, I can stop interacting with this person."

So if I want run around the room spraying water fooling around with your kids on a visit? And we are getting you wet in the rowdy? And you don't like it? You check in with your personal boundary. You can tell me

• "I am getting wet. Could you please take it outside? I do not allow this kind of play in the living room." (You ask me to adjust my behavior and take the kids out. We can keep going, you can be free of wet.)
• You move from the sofa that to a corner chair more out of the path of the water play to get out of the splash zone. (You step back out of the way to be free of wet.)
• You get up and leave the living room and go hang out in the kitchen. (You leave the room to be free of wet.)
• You don't invite me over any more. (You stop interacting with me. The wet is the short term ugh, but the long term ugh is all this rowdy that I do when I visit. Then I leave. I make a mess and don't stick around to help clean up floor or chill kids. So basically I stink as a guest in your home.)

So as you exercise your personal autonomy?

And choose to work on learning personal boundary setting?

Make sure they include the consequence YOU will do.

Hang in there.

 

[BrokenArrow]

I've been working through this thought recently.

Spitfire and I spoke the other night. By spoke I mean she was too sick to go to Bashir's on the night I was watching the kids so she stayed home and had it out with me about some things. Toward the end we cleared up some of our communication issues but there were still a few glaring problems.

I said to her "Bashir was a boundary you never should have broken. It never should have made it to me. Can you imagine how good, loved and respected I would have felt if when you came to me it wasn't to ask if it was okay but to tell me you broke up with him as soon as you found out he worked for the same employer as me."

To which she replied "yeah but we'd already been dating for two weeks by the time he told me."

My thoughts regarding that are that we had been together for 7 years at that point and married for 5. It sounds like she's telling me that in 2 weeks she'd developed more loyalty to him than I had garnered in all that time. Why am I trying so hard to make it work with her!?

But continuing on she told me I haven't given her a chance to change. I said I've been giving her every chance. I broke down every time I told her I didn't like something or that it made me uncomfortable but how I followed it up with I don't feel like I have the right to tell her what to do. I then explained how that was me expressing how I feel and giving her the chance to act on that. Then I called her out on consistently choosing to act in a way that hurt me. I asked how we could be together when given the choice to do what she wants she shows me what she wants is to do the thing that hurts me. She told me that was like expecting her to be a mind reader.

The more I think about it, the more I realize that was just her shifting the blame back on me. Like I was supposed to say "no, don't date Bashir. That would be a violation of my boundaries and I would have to end our relationship." I WAS supposed to say that only the years of being gaslit and cut down every time I dissented from what she wanted to do had left me in a place where I was incapable of standing up for myself. She shifted the blame back on me and I just accepted it, like I always do. Talking with her is dangerous for me. I need to be stronger. I am stronger than that.

I'm realizing in this moment that she wore me down first with hours of arguing. Eventually I just capitulate out of exhaustion.

I was not even asking her to be a mind reader. I was asking her to show respect to my feelings. I told her (though weakly) how I felt. She didn't care enough to respect my feelings. Plus how is she going to blame me for being the product of her abuse?!

At this point, the fact that she's still dating Bashir hurts the fuck out of my feelings but I have no one to blame but myself. I straight up said this time "yeah, I think you might as well keep dating him. I want to be okay with it." It's on me from here on out. Honestly, what would be the point in telling her that a requirement to get me back would be that they stop dating? She'd be doing it because I told her to, not because it was hurting me and needed to stop because she cared about my feelings. And I'm not going to stop dating Jason, though dating Jason was never me breaking one of her boundaries so it's not quite equitable.

It keeps looking more and more like we're not going to make it. And in her mind, I've abandoned her and the kids right now. She still lives in our house. She still has access to all the money I make. I still stop in and see the kids at least twice a week. I'm still going to marriage counseling and reaching out to her so she doesn't get lonely. But she keeps reminding me that I've abandoned her.

She keeps bringing up how for years she would beg me to change and fix our marriage and then things would get better for a little while but then I'd just go back to the way I was. I finally had the clarity to call her out on it. Of course I didn't change. I'd climb out of myself and try and be present. I'd put forth a ton of effort to make things better. But the abuse never stopped. Spitfire never got better. Of course I would just climb back into myself. I'd put my time and effort into work or video games because there I would at least get recognition or reward for all my effort. At home, all I got was guilt.

We recognize our relationship is mostly trauma bonding at this point but we both agree that we want to try and make it be more than that and heal from that. I go back and forth in having hope that we can.

 

[BrokenArrow]

So a lot has changed in a week. My life is a fucking crazy rollercoaster of emotions and events. Spitfire is autistic. I've known this but had not done the right kind of research. Mostly it was about what we needed to do to improve quality of life. Did a little more research and realized that what I was going through was not unheard of in neurodivergent relationships. It is referred to as Cassandra Syndrome, where due to the different wiring of our brains, we lose the meaning of each other's words. Spitfire will say things in a tone that I will hear as dripping with anger, subtext, dual meaning... Spitfire will hear what I say and take it exactly at face value. So basically we've just spent years gaslighting the living fucking shit out of each other, both of us being left with feelings of loneliness and rejection which turn into paranoia and resentment.

So I have this revelation, immediately notice a huge improvement in communication, feel the anger begin to ebb away. Same day, Jason breaks up with me. Any time I start to come up for air, something drags me back down.

He tells me watching me go up and down with Spitfire made him realize he wants a monogamous relationship. On top of that, he wanted it with the guy he started dating a few months ago, the guy he's been longing for since before we met. I had told him years before to let me know if and when this became an issue for him because I could never be the guy he deserved. So I told him that I was going to be the best god damned breakup he ever had. I was reassuring, cracked jokes, hugged him and told him it was all going to be okay. All this while I was packing my stuff and getting the fuck out of there so he didn't have to watch me have a total fucking breakdown.

Now I'm back home and working through things. We've agreed it's ok for our place to be a place for OUR relationship not up for renegotiation until both of us feel our relationship is in a good place and we're comfortable. It makes me feel a lot more secure in my home. I'm not sharing the only place I have for us with them. We've got a lot of trauma to sort out and a lot of misunderstanding to correct, communication pathways to clear and bridges to rebuild. I don't know what the fuck I'm doing most days but Spitfire showed me a library app that allows me to consume a shit ton of self help audio books at a record pace. The application of that knowledge gained has already been so helpful.

At some point I need to sit down and talk with Bashir and try to clear out any bad blood and come to an understanding regarding our shared work environment. Kirk was a huge help with some solid advice. Helped me pull my head out of my ass a bit.

Not really ready to start dating right now. Too much to fix at home. Spitfire drowning in NRE while we were dying is kind of what lit this powder keg in the first place. I'm working on becoming more assertive and keeping vigilant for abuse. Part of me is afraid this whole thing is just a manipulation and I'm climbing back into a cycle of abuse but the data support the positive scenario so I'm going to go with that.

Take care.