Hi. My wife and I have an open marriage. She is polygamous and I'm more ethically non-monogamous. We set up our ground rules over a year ago when we opened up the marriage. (No sex at our house with any partner, that's our safe place. Always use protection, open communication between us, etc.) Just yesterday, I found out she has been having sex with her BF without a condom. She claimed in previous conversations that she always has. Yet when her phone buzzed, I naturally looked at who the text was from and saw his answer to whatever she texted him prior that confirmed it. Yes, after that I read the texts from before, which now I'm feeling guilty about... But it just hurts to know that it was a major rule break for me. I'm not sure how to confront her about this now. Like was this a "one off" or has it been happening regularly? Not sure I'll get the truth there. It took a lot of trusting on my part for this open relationship. Now it just feels like a gut punch. Not sure about how to bring it up.
My wife broke one of our rules.
- Thread starter tribb21
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Bobbi
Well-known member
Nothing worse than feeling violated. If she had unprotected sex with you after not using a condom and not disclosing that fact, she took away your autonomy over your body and consent. Both of those are very hurtful and dismissive of your feelings and you as a person. Add that you had an agreement (or was it a rule?), and she lied to you on top of that... The hurt stacks up.
For the most part, it seems to be a general consensus that rules to control others do not work. A rule is used to control other's behavior sometimes, to make someone feel safe or special, etc. An agreement is something that's discussed and all parties commit to. Many times someone will say "Everyone needs to use condoms with others" and assume everyone agrees, but in reality there wasn't agreement, it is just assumed that it was agreed upon because it was said and nobody said "no." That's a rule.
Even agreements can be broken. The question is, how do you handle it?
You are in a pickle because you read her texts, which is also a violation. You'll both need to own what you did and try to work past both transgressions to deal with the heart of the issue... You had an agreement (rule) that doesn't work and needs to be renegotiated. You can assume she won't magically start using condoms with him. So, what now? Maybe you need to use them with her for your own health and safety. Maybe, if the relationship with BF is established and testing is done, you might feel more comfortable. Maybe if he consents, she could share his safety practices which you might feel more comfortable with.
She's your wife and you trust her. Chances are she made her decision based on info you aren't privy to. She sees and talks to him regularly and has built a comfort that you might have too, if you had the same relationship with him. It's just that you don't know him, how he dates, tests, etc., and that unknown makes you uncomfortable.
Maybe you don't bring up that you saw her texts. Maybe you just have a check-in over current agreements and if they need modification. See if she says yes and initiates changes.
You could confront her with a gotcha, but that's rarely helpful and you'll have to out yourself, as well. Both of you hiding what you did isn't the best policy, but if she comes clean during the renegotiation and you do too, it will go a long way towards healing that broken trust, because instead of fighting about it, you found a solution instead. She will learn that she can come to you if something is not working and you'll feel more confident she will work with you in the future, instead of doing things behind your back.
For the most part, it seems to be a general consensus that rules to control others do not work. A rule is used to control other's behavior sometimes, to make someone feel safe or special, etc. An agreement is something that's discussed and all parties commit to. Many times someone will say "Everyone needs to use condoms with others" and assume everyone agrees, but in reality there wasn't agreement, it is just assumed that it was agreed upon because it was said and nobody said "no." That's a rule.
Even agreements can be broken. The question is, how do you handle it?
You are in a pickle because you read her texts, which is also a violation. You'll both need to own what you did and try to work past both transgressions to deal with the heart of the issue... You had an agreement (rule) that doesn't work and needs to be renegotiated. You can assume she won't magically start using condoms with him. So, what now? Maybe you need to use them with her for your own health and safety. Maybe, if the relationship with BF is established and testing is done, you might feel more comfortable. Maybe if he consents, she could share his safety practices which you might feel more comfortable with.
She's your wife and you trust her. Chances are she made her decision based on info you aren't privy to. She sees and talks to him regularly and has built a comfort that you might have too, if you had the same relationship with him. It's just that you don't know him, how he dates, tests, etc., and that unknown makes you uncomfortable.
Maybe you don't bring up that you saw her texts. Maybe you just have a check-in over current agreements and if they need modification. See if she says yes and initiates changes.
You could confront her with a gotcha, but that's rarely helpful and you'll have to out yourself, as well. Both of you hiding what you did isn't the best policy, but if she comes clean during the renegotiation and you do too, it will go a long way towards healing that broken trust, because instead of fighting about it, you found a solution instead. She will learn that she can come to you if something is not working and you'll feel more confident she will work with you in the future, instead of doing things behind your back.
Thank you for your response. I guess you can say we set boundaries in the beginning. We both agreed to always use protection unless it's her and I. We've been married for 10 years, together for 14. I know the using protection was a major thing in the beginning when we sat down and both shared our boundaries. That was the one we both absolutely agreed with. I known she gets caught up in the moment during things, but now that I have had my vasectomy, I know there's no risk there. But now, it's very troublesome she would do this. Like you said, I don't necessarily wanna do the "gotcha", but I'm definitely gonna sit down and reiterate our boundaries again.
Perhaps tell her you'd like to talk about all your original open relationship agreements as a check in that they're still working for everyone. This may allow her to communicate with you that this one isn't working for her. You could discuss what the underlying intent of each agreement is, such as, "I don't want to parent another baby/child as a result of us being polyamorous." She may say that her other partner also has had a vasectomy so that's actually a non-issue. Do you have any remaining objections? If it's because you have an issue with another man coming in/on her, then that's actually not her problem to mitigate, i.e., that's a you problem. If it really is a boundary for you and you see this as intolerable to your values, then you would then need to leave this marital relationship. That's what boundaries are - something that covers your behaviour, i.e. what you will do if you can no longer tolerate the situation. And it might be a separation or ending of your marriage so you are no longer affected by their behaviour, e.g. not using condoms.
Lastly, food for thought, if she's more polyamorous and is in love with her BF, then I can imagine that it would be really hurtful to them to have a condom rule imposed from outside their loving relationship. Can you see how such a rule is just waiting to be broken (or not waiting anymore)?
Lastly, food for thought, if she's more polyamorous and is in love with her BF, then I can imagine that it would be really hurtful to them to have a condom rule imposed from outside their loving relationship. Can you see how such a rule is just waiting to be broken (or not waiting anymore)?
Hello tribb21,
It seems to me that you and your wife have both been less than 100% honest with each other. On the one hand, your wife has been dishonest about whether she would use protection. On the other hand, you have been snooping on your wife's phone, which is its own kind of betrayal of trust. It is going to take some time for you and your wife to learn to trust each other again. Bear in mind, trust means you don't need the other person to prove that they're being honest. Trust means that you have faith in their word. It won't be easy to get back to that point with each other.
My first bit of advice to you would be to get yourself tested for STI's. If your wife's boyfriend hasn't been using a condom, he could have given her an STI, and she could have then given that STI to you. So get tested, and don't have sexual relations with her until the testing is complete. Or at the very least, use a condom yourself until you know for sure that she did not give you an STI.
Of course you must confront her with the information you've gathered. Start by confessing that you snooped on her phone. Apologize and acknowledge that you can understand if she can't trust you in the future. Then tell her that you did find out that she had unprotected sex with her boyfriend, and that you, too, feel like your trust was violated. Ask her, "Where do we go from here?" You have a rocky road ahead of you, that's for sure. I can't even guarantee that she won't sue for a divorce.
Sympathetically,
Kevin T.
It seems to me that you and your wife have both been less than 100% honest with each other. On the one hand, your wife has been dishonest about whether she would use protection. On the other hand, you have been snooping on your wife's phone, which is its own kind of betrayal of trust. It is going to take some time for you and your wife to learn to trust each other again. Bear in mind, trust means you don't need the other person to prove that they're being honest. Trust means that you have faith in their word. It won't be easy to get back to that point with each other.
My first bit of advice to you would be to get yourself tested for STI's. If your wife's boyfriend hasn't been using a condom, he could have given her an STI, and she could have then given that STI to you. So get tested, and don't have sexual relations with her until the testing is complete. Or at the very least, use a condom yourself until you know for sure that she did not give you an STI.
Of course you must confront her with the information you've gathered. Start by confessing that you snooped on her phone. Apologize and acknowledge that you can understand if she can't trust you in the future. Then tell her that you did find out that she had unprotected sex with her boyfriend, and that you, too, feel like your trust was violated. Ask her, "Where do we go from here?" You have a rocky road ahead of you, that's for sure. I can't even guarantee that she won't sue for a divorce.
Sympathetically,
Kevin T.
Pippa
Member
In my opinion, if you love your wife, let her do what she likes. If she wants unprotected sex with her boyfriend, then let her. It’s unfair that you decide how she makes love to her boyfriend.
My wife has a long-term boyfriend over 18 months now, and I don’t interfere in their love life. I just make sure that I do what’s best for our relationship. She stays at his place every weekend and they go out as a couple over that weekend and then when she comes back on a Monday afternoon she’s all mine until the Friday morning. It works and it’s a good balance. That’s the secret to happiness, a fair balance. I hope you get to sort this out and resolve the issue. Don’t let a condom be a crack in your relationship.
Explain how the wife "coming clean" about having unprotected sex with her boyfriend somehow restores trust? The idea of a husband having to wear a condom with his wife while the boyfriend doesn't seems unsettling. In your view does a marriage play any role whatsoever in a poly relationship or is it just a legal formality?
Sometimes in polyamory, marriage =/= sexual priority as a default. That's one of the aspects about designing relationships. We use the term 'couple's privilege' and after a while, many of us develop different priorities in different relationships. Or different privileges for each dyad. Marriage plays the role that the couple in it defines (or designs), no longer what society - nor anyone else at all - defines.
dingedheart
Well-known member
How long have you been in this new dynamic?
The thing about broken trust, especially around the sexual health topic, is what other agreements have been broken? Having sex in the house seems like a really easy one to break. Right now, to me, it looks like she broke 2 out of the 3 founding agreements, because if the no-condom rule was too restrictive, or they got caught up in the moment, the open/honest communication agreement would have kicked in.
Another topic not really touched on is the risks of pregnancy that as her legal husband depending on the state or country you live in exposes you to some financial risk or expense. And have you had that discussion on what will be done if such should occurs. Unplanned or what appears to be accidental pregnancy seem to pop up here from time to time.
I don’t think looking at a spouse's phone while a text is coming in is some big violation, because sometime it’s hard to know whose phone is going off, AND unless there were some PRIOR agreements on sacred text communication.
It sounds like you have kids, and their eyes will see the same thing. Is there a rule in place for them?
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Bobbi
Well-known member
I never said that it restores trust but it can be a small step in starting to restore trust. Trust is not restored by an apology or any singular act. It's built by several acts of emotional bravery through honesty. Ex. Telling a hard truth that you know will probably hurt the other or being truthful about a violation of an agreement. Some want to focus on the broken agreement but should focus on the fact that the person was honest with them about it.
I never said the husband had to wear a condom. OP was not clear on if this was wanting to control his wife or a safety issue. I erred on the side of safety because hopefully it wasn't about control. I suggested that if it was a safety concern he could CHOOSE to use a condom. Not having sex at all was an option too but I didn't state that because I assumed he wanted to have sex with his wife.
Marriage is what the two people make it. That being said, I believe poly embraces autonomy of individuals and their relationships. Most married people in poly do not see marriage as ownership or a way to control your spouse. I think if you use marriage to control your spouse then you have an abusive relationship.
Autonomy doesn't mean treating your partners like shit or dismissing their needs or feelings though. She made an agreement and broke it. That is incredibly hurtful and violates trust as now he cannot trust that she will keep future agreements. She should have told him that the no condom rule didn't work for this relationship and renegotiated an agreement that worked for both of them.
If someone wants to keep the marriage above others, polyamory is not a good fit. There are many ways to do ENM and polyamory is the least marriage focused and most autonomous of them.
While this is a very serious breach, with time it's possible you will come to see it as a trip-up or growing pains. For some reason she wasn't comfortable renegotiating agreements with you, and that's a problem.
Is there a pattern of dishonesty with her previously? If there is not, remembering 10 years of trust may help.
If there is, I strongly recommend couples counseling.
Don't panic. Have the talk. Be honest. Try to reach an agreement.
If you don't feel better, have a few individual/couples counseling sessions.
Is there a pattern of dishonesty with her previously? If there is not, remembering 10 years of trust may help.
If there is, I strongly recommend couples counseling.
Don't panic. Have the talk. Be honest. Try to reach an agreement.
If you don't feel better, have a few individual/couples counseling sessions.
A number of off-topic posts have been moved to General Discussions and can be found here:
Please keep the discussion relevant to the original post. Hopefully, the original poster hasn't been scared away.
Please keep the discussion relevant to the original post. Hopefully, the original poster hasn't been scared away.
Thanks, ref. I didn't even remember what the OP was. I hope I didn't contribute too much to the derailment.