need advice how to manage this

Here's the thing...

You know how some mono folks are going to look at poly as being weird and wrong, and insist that mono is the only One True Way to relationship?

Don't expect poly folks to do that about polyamory. Really. Don't.

A few people do think that poly is somehow more natural. But most of us just want to see people in general have happy, healthy, honest, sane relationships.

Most of us have seen toxicity and heard stories of it about a million times and we know what it looks like. And most have heard time and again where one partner in a marriage wants to open up (usually because they've met someone else, or already were cheating) and uses poly as the perfect excuse of sorts, to say "see! What I'm doing isn't wrong, even though it makes you feel like your heart is being ripped out! You just need to get with the program, here!" That is bullshit. When someone uses something that CAN be beautiful and wonderful as license to do something crummy to another person...sorry, but it just isn't nice.

And it totally sounds like he is GASLIGHTING YOU by telling you that your feelings and thoughts about this are wrong and you need to change how you feel to get with this whole thing, to not be "stunted" (wtf?) and evolve and be poly with him.

I don't know why you think that everyone here is going to defend that. Poly is not some sacred cow to us. I think most/all of us here, if we met a very happy monogamous couple, totally loving each other, we're not going to tell them they're backward and wrong and should be poly. If poly is not natural to you, or not natural under THESE circumstances, well, you have got every right to feel your feelings. And trying to force that square peg into a round hole just to appease your husband, whom you clearly love and simply want to keep and see happy.....well....it just doesn't usually work. It's a path to resentment, and a lot of hurt in it.
 
Well said

Well said, Spork, although it made me delete what I was going to post because you said it better! :p
 
the real question

I appreciate all your responses.
I guess I am trying to ask if anyone of you who is a successful polyamorist has dealt with feeling extremely jealous of your partner's other relationship(s) and how did you deal with it? I don;t know any successful polyamorist people in real life. There is a group in our town but we live in a really small community and I am not feeling comfortable with outing myself/our couple to the group of people here some of whom I surely know already. Can anyone give me advice on how you have dealt with this feeling of jealousy and gotten through it to a happier feeling?
 
Jealousy

First, many of us do feel jealous. The difference is what you do with those feelings.

There are many good references out there, you might start with the site More Than Two in general or about jealously: https://www.morethantwo.com/jealousy-insecurity.html

I have dealt with jealousy successfully but I certainly started from a better place than you. My concern is that your dealing with jealousy is the least part of this situation.
 
swimmingordrowning said:
I appreciate all your responses.
I guess I am trying to ask if anyone of you who is a successful polyamorist has dealt with feeling extremely jealous of your partner's other relationship(s) and how did you deal with it? I don;t know any successful polyamorist people in real life. There is a group in our town but we live in a really small community and I am not feeling comfortable with outing myself/our couple to the group of people here some of whom I surely know already. Can anyone give me advice on how you have dealt with this feeling of jealousy and gotten through it to a happier feeling?
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What you are being told, the message that you really do not want to hear, is that this is more than just being jealous of your partner's partner (your metamour.) This is trying to process deception and disrespectful partner behavior.

He has done things you would need to find true forgiveness for in your heart, but it's really hard to do that when the person who has wronged you doesn't seem to think they've done anything wrong and isn't apologizing at all, but rather trying to paint YOU as being the wrong one. It's like you are struggling to forgive yourself for his actions. No wonder it's difficult.

People are telling you that your primary relationship, your marriage, is in trouble. And you're resisting because you simply want to do anything it takes to find another way.

As Galagirl often says, "I am sorry you struggle."

To answer THIS question, of course people have worked through issues of jealousy. But your situation as you explained it, is WAY more complex than that. Are you wishing to change the subject now?

It is my feeling that if I were going to get past issues of jealousy, I would have to feel SECURE in my loving relationship. That means safety, trust, honesty. Knowing that whatever is going on with my love and my metamour, that the relationship I have with my love is GOOD. On stable, solid ground. I can have faith that they truly love and respect me.

That's why you are hearing some folks here say that you could maybe work on strengthening your marriage bond, and then later on opening up or trying poly...but probably not with this specific girlfriend. Or, if with her, a significant period of time down the line. If you and your husband have a future together, you are going to have to rebuild trust that he has broken.

And I don't simply mean trust from the deceptions of you or cheating behavior.

I also mean that you've got to feel safe being emotionally vulnerable to him, which frankly if he is going to disregard your feelings (as he did in treating you like a lame, unevolved, party-pooper, stick-in-the-mud, for not being all groovy boots with his fun new idea of a second live in baby mama)...and if he isn't going to respect how scary this would be to your emotional security and sense of place, let alone your home, your family, your kids...

How can you trust that?

Get it through your mind, you're not "just being jealous" here. You have legitimate feelings. And you have a RIGHT to feel them. I imagine that thinking of life without him in it is probably really scary. Maybe he provides most of the income. Maybe you don't know where you'd go or what you'd do. I get that. If you need to hang in there until you figure things out, then fine. You do what you need to.

But please stop parroting his dismissive and disrespectful attitude here and asking us how to get over being you, and how to learn to be a good mindless toy for him. You being an actual person with actual feelings seems to inconvenience him...that makes him wrong. Not you.
 
Hi swimmingordrowning,

I'm not sure what advice to give you, though I'll do my best to support you in whatever you decide. As far as jealousy is concerned, I have a list of links ...

Jealousy, Envy, Insecurity, etc.
How do you achieve compersion?

The Theory of Jealousy Management
The Practice of Jealousy Management

Jealousy and the Poly Family
Kathy Labriola: Unmasking the Green-Eyed Monster
Kathy Labriola: "First Aid" for Jealousy
Brené Brown: the Power of Vulnerability

Maybe that will help.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
What you describe as your current feelings in the first post are

  • betrayed
  • shocked
  • angry
  • devastated
  • jealous
  • dangerous
  • out of control

Under the circumstances, all normal things to feel after discovering an affair.

I don't think you can address jealousy until you address the other feelings that come before it. Which will hopefully help you feel more in control of your life and stable again after this upheaval. More sure of your choices and more able to move yourself out of dangerous or endangered territory.

If you simply do not feel safe, respected, valued, appreciated, listened to, and cared about in this relationship?

I am not sure how to advise other than to seek a counselor to better help you sort. There are some situations that simply go beyond internet people help.

You could look at page 5 and 6 -- things you could do and things he could do to minimize jealousy if he is willing to change his behavior. That would take him owning how his behaviors can affect you. If he doesn't care and just wants to do as he pleases and you lump it? He keeps pressuring you because you aren't doing what he wants?

Going down that road to work on jealousy at this time may not be helpful -- trying to make him "see" when he just doesn't want to. It might be another thing he just expects you to "lump" on your own.

Your situation is complicated and you have a LOT of things to process. You may also be going through the stages of grief since learning about this affair.

I think professional guidance would be best.

Galagirl
 
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As some of the others have mentioned... I find it extremely bizarre that they're talking about having children already. Whether they've slept together or not yet, it seems waaaay too premature for any relationship to venture down that path.

Second, regardless of what your husband says, being monogamous doesn't make you "emotionally stunted". It's not a question of whether poly or mono is better or worse, or "natural" or "evolved" or whatever. For you, it's all about what feels right to you. And trying to guilt you into it by saying that you need to be "happy" for him about this is ridiculous. If fair is fair, then he should equally be empathetic to how devastated you are by this news.

Before anything else... I'd say the first decision would be to seek a new babysitter. While finding the best fit for the children, you may want to see about finding someone that you know he's not going to be attracted to. The last thing either of you need, is to repeat this pattern again, and now you're dealing with a 4th ;) .

Remember, YOUR happiness matters as well. As a fellow mono, I know what it feels like to be stuck on the tight-rope of wanting our partner's happiness, and maintaining our own sanity, especially when the very thing that makes them happy, is also what makes you miserable. It really, REALLY sucks sometimes. But you may have to get to a point where, even if you want to stay, you are willing to walk away. I remember thinking that, if I lost my wife, I'd never be happy again. I thought that I'd be nothing without her. It took time, but I eventually came to grips with the fact that I DO have value outside of my marriage. I COULD find happiness again. It took all of the pressure off of me feeling like I was the only one who could save it. And a year later, we're still together and are just months away from our 18 year anniversary.

I wish you the best of luck.
 
Op your husband is a manipulative selfish jerk.

You have about a snowballs chance in hell to successfully transition to poly from this cluster fuck of a situation.

Your marriage is broken you don't add more people to make your relationship better.

What kind of friend is your babysitter that she would participate in having at minimum an emotional affair with your husband? Stop making excuses for his bad behavior. He is treating you like shit. He is only thinking about himself. Not you definitely not his children who are young enough to need a sitter.

There are much better men out there who will not gaslight you, and belittle you. Actually women have a lot more success in polyamory. Yes your husband found one person with questionable morals who is willing to play his game for now. But if she leaves him he would be in for a rude awakening. Men, especially self centered jerks, don't have an easy path in the poly world. Why keep a jerk?
 
Whether it is monogamy or polyamory, a HEALTHY relationship needs the same things - mutual respect, mutual consideration, each partner feeling valued simply for being themselves, good communication, full-on honesty, mutual willingness to listen, and having a sense of safety. I don't see these things being mutual in this situation. I don't see much respect for you at all, I hate to say. Also, with polyamory, there is a strong emphasis on informed consent - which means all parties know and agree to be in the situation BEFORE anyone acts to pursue another relationship with someone.

I also really do not care for how your husband is telling you that you "need to" consider this, you "need to" let him be happy, and "need to" stop being emotionally stunted? WTF? What is he, your boss, your dictator? Or a true partner? And, excuse me, but... emotionally stunted? Did you accept being called that? First of all, when people try to get away with what your husband is doing, they give polyamory a really rotten name and create huge misconceptions about it. Ugh. This isn't poly.

Firstly, poly is not more evolved than any other structure for relationships - but it is based on love AND honesty. What your husband is doing to you is not very loving and he was dishonest. What we members (who are a mix of polyamorists, monogamists involved with polys, and full-on monogamists) are trying to tell you -- some of us gently, some of us not so gently -- is that he is falsely calling his intentions, goals, and desires in this "polyamory" when that is not what this is. He is simply attempting to manipulate you to get what he wants and gaslighting you so you doubt yourself and will wind up so confused you'll go along with whatever he tells you.

You posted that it's too difficult for you to "conceive how you could possibly be happy in a non-exclusive marriage." And you know what? It's okay to be happy and comfortable with monogamy. You say you are stuck on wondering why you're "not enough" for him, why he doesn't appreciate what you've given to your family, how he can consider himself separate from your family, and why he needs to boink someone else -- and you know what? These are good questions, albeit typically monocentric, BUT it is possible you may never be satisfied or happy with the answers you get. It's okay to prefer monogamy!

You say he's backed off from seeing her but is still texting with her. What I find EXTREMELY disrespectful of him is that he's reporting back to her all your reactions and how he interprets them - whoa, whoa, whoa. Your relationship with him and process of understanding the BOMB he just dropped in your lap is NONE of her fucking business. He's unbelieveable! Serious boundary issues here! No respect for you!

We are not saying your husband is a monster, but he seems to be thinking with his little head and is not being very kind, considerate, nor loving in his treatment of you. You don't need to do any of it if it doesn't feel good and right to you! Even if you do acquiesce, who in their right mind would go along with moving her in and impregnating her? Without any dating period? He's off his rocker, it seems! Did you move in with him a day or two after meeting him??

You don't have to all live together to be poly; you don't have to all be involved with each other sexually to be poly; and you don't need to be included in their relationship to be poly. However, all of that is a moot point because you're not poly and you don't think you could ever be happy in a non-monogamous arrangement.

If I were you, I'd get serious about protecting myself and make an exit plan that covers your ass financially - then get out of this train wreck. He's playing you and you're doubting yourself, thinking you should go along with it. Hon, don't. For the sake of your emotional, intellectual, and physical well-being, don't.

Oh,and get tested for STDs just in case. He could have already fucked her and endangered your health.
 
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Where are you getting this notion that you're "emotionally stunted"? You've used the phrase twice now, and I don't think it's helping. I also don't think it's true.

There isn't really a "should" in feelings. You feel how you feel. There are no rules about that. There are standards for how you should behave, but not for what you feel about it.

Your husband is trying to dictate what happens next by insulting your emotional reaction. He's also trying to radically change the terms of your relationship. He doesn't get to do that unilaterally. He can decide what his terms are for staying involved with you, but he doesn't get to decide what your terms are for staying involved with him.

Polyamorous people aren't a monolith with a single opinion, and monogamous people aren't either. But your situation has someone in it trying to railroad you into something you say you don't want. That's not a gray area for most people. It's just bad.
 
Along with many excellent post by GalaGirl, Spork, and others, OP, you very much need to read this. Your husband is using all the classic tactics of a master manipulator. Going along with it isn't going to end well for you.

I am so sorry you deal with this. *hugs*
 
Whoa, when reading this thread, I really wonder if I am being that blind, too forgiving, not used to good treatment or whatever.

Anyway, this discussion has become a little too one-sided to my taste. Some strong words like "manipulator" and "selfish jerk" are being used based on just a few sentences. I refuse to judge the husband by the short information I've read from the OP... Or at least I am willing to give him some slack. He may be a jerk or not. My choice is going for a while with the idea that he's not.
- He's fallen in love, although in a monogamous relationship. We cannot always control that. I don't judge here.
- He's hidden this bad news for ~3 weeks. Hopefully he didn't sleep with that girl. We don't know when he himself became aware of his feelings. While it's not fun to discover that your spouse has fallen for someone else, 3 weeks to me don't seem to be a terribly long time for the husband to come to terms with the fact that he's in love and come out to the wife.
- He's not seeing the girl now at his wife's request. He's still texting her (did OP ask him to cut all contact?). I find it disrespectful, that he interpret's OP's struggles (OP could ask him to stop), but it still could be an ill-minded but well-meant attempt to inform the girl outside of what was going on; or just a desperate reaching for emotional support himself.
- He's not willing to give the girl up. Fair enough, this may be a game-changing relationship for him. I see it as his responsibility to state clearly that he's not giving the girl up, but it is OP's responsibility to say "ok, then divorce".
- He's expressed the wish to live with both girls. They have talked about babies. I haven't read anywhere, if this is beyond the fantasy land of "someday", i.e. if that means immediately. We hear the anxious OP report this as a blow - I don't want to belittle the information, but is it an accurate expression of his intention? I am giving some slack here.
- He's told her to embrace polyamory. Again, it is very different to say (and mean) "I would like you to mature in love and embrace poly, because that would make it easier for us to be together" or "You should better stop being emotionally stunted and embrace poly, because I'm doing whatever". Do we know what happened? Actually, the name calling is the only thing I see as terrible. ... but even that, if it was once and not regularly, I could call a mistake.

OP, you don't have to judge your husband.
That doesn't change the situation though, that you have to take care of yourself first. Excellent points have been made, like
- you have much more to deal with then jealousy
- it's extremely hard to transition from an affair (honestly admitted or not) to polyamory
- you can't be expected to just follow his wish. If he expect's you to, don't. Be solid in what lifestyle you want. It takes two to tango, and if he's changing the direction unilaterally, or running of to dance with someone else, you have a full right to call him out or leave the hall.
- take your time out, separation, therapy, whatever you need to become comfortable. You need to process shock, without him giving you more load, intentionally or not.
- get yourself and the kids safe from emotional roller coaster
- you can't feel safe with polyamory if you don't feel safe in the relationship

Mono-poly relationships are hard, but doable (https://www.morethantwo.com/poly-mono.html). But it is questionable at this point, if your husband is poly at all, or just forgetting the value of your relationship and jumping off the board. Put the breaks on. Mourn the relationship you had, and then see, if you two are compatible as romantic partners, friends or not at all.
 
Tinwen said:
Again, it is very different to say (and mean) "I would like you to mature in love and embrace poly, because that would make it easier for us to be together" or "You should better stop being emotionally stunted and embrace poly, because I'm doing whatever".
Click to expand...

As another mono person, I'm still pretty tetchy about the wording of the first sentence, because it implies that wanting monogamy is immature. It would be easier for them to stay together if he embraced monogamy too, no?

It's *not* easy, especially after coming off the shock of an affair. IMO, trust needs to be rebuilt before any of the other stuff. The easier path is what my ex wanted when we were at the tail end of our marriage - no counseling, we don't need to talk, why couldn't I just be happy?

Well, I'm not going to *be* happy if I stay in an unhappy situation and nothing changes. Although it may eat away more and more of my soul over time. No thanks. I caution OP to be careful of getting into the same situation.
 
YouAreHere said:
As another mono person, I'm still pretty tetchy about the wording of the first sentence, because it implies that wanting monogamy is immature. It would be easier for them to stay together if he embraced monogamy too, no?
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You're right, it still holds the undesired implication of one being better then the other :(

I would like to hear from the OP.
 
1421

Update:

My husband has decided, for reasons that I do not totally understand, that this situation is taking too much energy and he wants to work on our marriage and cease contact with the other person. I am left feeling dazed, fearful that this might reoccur, and confused. He literally changed his mind from the morning when we were discussing how to be unconditionally loving and therefore open to others. I said I needed some space and went out for four hours and when I came back he said maybe polyamory is not a necessity for him and certainly now is not the time. He left it open with her to maybe resume things at some point in the future. I'm not sure what happened and haven't wanted to ask about it because letting it sleep for a while feels good to me. I think I need to recover for a while and then figure out if this is something that is true for him or not. Still feeling totally judged and like he thinks I am an emotional baby for not accepting this. I want to say thank you to everyone who has taken an interest in this thread and provided helpful advice and resources. It means so much to me that there is a community of people to discuss this with.
 
He literally changed his mind from the morning when we were discussing how to be unconditionally loving and therefore open to others. I said I needed some space and went out for four hours and when I came back he said maybe polyamory is not a necessity for him and certainly now is not the time.
Click to expand...

Tread carefully.

Mind games are not kind.

Especially since now you feel dazed, fearful that this might reoccur, and confused. Also feeling judged and not really trusting this is for real.

Galagirl
 
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Thanks for the update swimmingordrowning. Hopefully you will get some breathing space now :(
swimmingordrowning said:
My husband has decided, for reasons that I do not totally understand, that this situation is taking too much energy and he wants to work on our marriage and cease contact with the other person.
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This might be the sensible thing to do. If he came here he would have probably gotten advice to do that. Hopefully it's a sincere decision.

Along with the other things?
He literally changed his mind from the morning when we were discussing how to be unconditionally loving and therefore open to others....
He left it open with her to maybe resume things at some point in the future. ...
I'm not sure what happened and haven't wanted to ask...
Still feeling totally judged and like he thinks I am an emotional baby for not accepting this.
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It seems like I'm turning 180degree around now, but I must agree with Galagirl :( Be careful. Stand for what is true to you. Watch his action, if "working on the marriage" means what he sais, or if it's just a tactic to convince you. And don't let yourself be judged.

It works both ways. Polyamorists sometimes hear from monogamous people how they are immature because they "cannot truly commit/love" (one person), how there are higher values in life then sex and how emotionally underdevelopped they are for seeking it out with more then one person. Of course it's utter bullshit. So is what your husband is saying about how unconditional love should somehow lead to polyamory.
 
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Did you fire the babysitter, and get someone else? I hope so. It's entirely inappropriate for her to be in your home on a regular basis. Too tempting to both of them to be around each other. They both obviously lack basic morals and respectful boundaries. I work in childcare too, and I'd never dream of hitting on any of the dads (or moms) I work for. I need the money, and I can find lovers elsewhere. Sheesh!

Although, be wary of the next babysitter. If your h has an overwhelming desire to get some "strange," he might point his cock in the next person's direction.
 
ten-inch letters

This really deserves to be a billboard --
tenK said:
1) It is very hard to transition a monogamous relationship into a polyamorous one unless both partners are wanting that kind of relationships shape - if one partner is only doing it for the other's sake, it rarely ends well.

2) It is very hard to transition a monogamous relationship into a polyamorous one when trust between the partners has been destroyed by unresolved cheating. Polyamory needs a lot of positive self-esteem, trust between partners, and good communication skills - those things can all be eroded by, or a factor in, cheating behaviours.

3) It is very hard to transition a monogamous relationship into a polyamorous one when one of you has a partner lined up waiting in the wings and the other doesn't. It creates an uncomfortable dynamic whereby two people might be pushing the other to be ready, possibly before they are, and also might introduce feelings of envy into the mix. It's also hard to go at a slow pace when a third heart is on the line.

4) It is very hard to transition a monogamous relationship into a polyamorous one when one of you has an intense dislike of the other's proposed partner. She was meant to be your babysitter, in a position of trust, and she also betrayed you. That's going to be hard to overcome, no matter how nice a person she might be.
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